Uno Draft: QF - willhse456 vs green_smiley

Who will win the match based on all the players at their peaks?


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Enigma_87

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.............................TEAM willhse456..........................................................................TEAM green_smiley


TACTICS TEAM willhse456

I got completely roasted in the first round for having Nilton and Thuram as wingbacks, and just about survived by the skin of my teeth, so I have not made that mistake again!

In the reinforcement round I needed a more robust central midfielder instead of Schuster, as I had to change to 4 at the back. I also needed a right winger to provide balance to the side. I’m very happy that I ended up with Edwards and Houseman, and I think they both significantly improve the team.

There’s not a huge amount to say about my defence, probably the best in the draft as it stands. The main threat from GS’s team comes from Best, but with Nilton at left back, supported by both Chumpitaz and Davids, I think my team is in a pretty strong position to deal with his threat. Baresi will be able to sweep up any danger in between the lines, especially with a right back as defensively capable as Thuram covering him.

My midfield three is my favourite part of the team. I have the perfect base for Zidane to work his magic. Davids and Edwards would be a perfect partnership, working in tandem to close down all attacks coming from the centre. I’m expecting GS to play with 2 central midfielders too, which leaves a lot of space for Zidane.

On the left I have Stoichkov, this time in a more natural position than in the first round, the perfect inside forward to complement Sanchez. Houseman will be asked to stay fairly wide and provide width on the right hand side. Sanchez finishes the side, probably the best yellow striker available, I think my attacking unit has more than enough to cause some problems.

TACTICS TEAM green_smiley

Formation: 4-2-3-1

Defense line: Balanced

Tactics:
  1. Build attack from the back - both centre backs possess great composure and passing ability
  2. Full-backs overlapping during attacking phase
  3. Dynamic and tenacious midfield duos - box-to-box
  4. Inside forwards with ability to either stretch the play or cut inside. Track back when off-the-ball
  5. Mazzola pulling the strings. Also offers goal-scoring threat and defensive work-rate
  6. Seeler to thrive from all service to him to score
 

MJJ

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Not the best, but not that bad
It's actually pretty decent and your team has a slight advantage in attack and midfield. But the gap between baresi, chumpitaz and king,Silva is bigger than the gap in attack/mid.

Although willshe attack looks worse than the last round, will have to think a bit more about this.
 

willhse456

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Good luck @green_smiley

As others have said, whilst I think your attacking unit complements each other well, it's coming up against a very good defence that would be very well suited to deal with any problems.

Robson and Souness vs Davids and Edwards would be a great battle in the middle of the pitch, and I think those pairs are pretty even. The advantage for me comes with Zidane who was more of a midfielder than Mazzola, so would probably contribute more in that area of the pitch.

Thiago Silva isn't up to this level though, and whilst I like King and think he was very talented, he didn't really play enough games to be renowned as a top class centre back.
 

green_smiley

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Don't see any problem for Mazzola. He has quality to play in any attacking position. Plus, he has better work rate than Zidane, so he does not have rely on Robson+Souness as much as Zidane on Davids+Edwards
 

green_smiley

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Thiago Silva is easily top 3 centre backs in modern football who is still playing today, alongside Godin and maybe others, taking into consideration their achievements and longetivity

In terms of his influence, best example is 1-7 drubbing of Brazil in the hands of Germany while he was not playing

He was actually picked regularly in previous drafts and rated quite highly, so I don't see him out of place at this stage of draft

 
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GodShaveTheQueen

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The advantage for me comes with Zidane who was more of a midfielder than Mazzola, so would probably contribute more in that area of the pitch.
Mazzola played everywhere across the pitch. AM/wings/CM. Played high up in Grande Inter of course waiting for counters (Herrera of course with his demands to make the ball reach the opposition box in 3 passes from the back made it a requirement for Mazzola to stay up top).

But in a system like this, I would expect him to have no less impact that Zidane when it comes to the midfield battle.
 

green_smiley

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As for Ledley King, the one that holds against him is his injury record, but there is no question of his defensive capability during his peak.

When Sol Campbell controversially departed the Lane on a free transfer to arch-rivals Arsenal at the end of that season, Spurs fans were left without a defensive lynchpin. Campbell had come up through the youth academy and had just left in the worst possible manner. They were searching for someone new to call their own, but they didn’t have to look too far.

It was at this time that King stepped out of Campbell’s shadow and made the centre-back position his own. At the age of just 20, King was more often than not the youngest member in the Tottenham starting line-up, but it highlighted how mature he was and how he was able to adapt to his surroundings, something that would come in very handy towards the latter end of his career.

Glenn Hoddle had taken over from George Graham towards the end of the 2000/01 season and had made Spurs into a side that occasionally played with three central defenders, with King a huge part of that set-up. As King matured, and with more games under his belt, his qualities began to shine through. He wasn’t blessed with blistering pace – although he was hardly a couch potato – but had the mental awareness and defensive intelligence to be one step ahead of his man.

King may only have been coming into his 20s but he was so clever, rarely making poor judgements. While many defenders go to ground because they think it’s the only option, seeing their name in lights as the hero with the last-ditch tackle, King realised from a young age that if he stayed on his feet, didn’t give in to the attacker, kept his position, and made his move at the right time, he’d be tough to beat.

An injury towards the back end of the season against Arsenal meant that King had to sit out the remaining games, the 2002 World Cup and the majority of the 2002/03 season, something that would become the norm for King during his later career. What followed for Spurs was two more years of disappointment, which saw Hoddle replaced by Director of Football David Pleat until the end of the season, when Frenchman Jacques Santini would take over full-time.

While Santini had just guided France to the quarter-finals of Euro 2004, he left in November due to personal reasons to be replaced by his assistant Martin Jol, an appointment that would see King’s career go to the next level. By the time Jol had arrived, King was already being spoken about as one of the best English defenders in the Premier League alongside John Terry, Rio Ferdinand and his former teammate Sol Campbell, but his various knee troubles had begun to cause him intense pain, forcing him to miss game after game.

Despite that, Jol’s first season in charge at the club was special for all involved; for the first time in years, Spurs felt like they could achieve something again, and with Ledley King as captain, there was a lot of positivity around White Hart Lane. Alongside Michael Dawson, King formed yet another strong partnership that many Spurs fans consider to be one of the best they’ve seen.

King’s talent shone through as Spurs finished fifth, just beaten to the final Champions League spot by Arsenal thanks to a last-day defeat against West Ham which was dominated by the “Lasagna Gate” controversy. Regardless of the disappointment, Spurs fans looked upon the season as a positive, with King looking likely to be included in Sven-Göran Eriksson’s England squad for the 2006 World Cup following his impressive display at the previous competition, Euro 2004. But the first of a string of injuries meant that King had to miss out, and it got worse when he damaged his knee in pre-season training having recovered from his initial injury.

It was at this time that King’s career became both tragic and remarkable in equal measure. Not only are fans left wondering what could have been had he stayed fit, but also how on earth he managed to put in so many dominant performances despite only having one fully-functioning knee.

King went on to make 27 appearances for Spurs the following season as the club once again finished fifth, but one performance stood out head and shoulders above the rest. Tottenham hadn’t beaten Chelsea at White Hart Lane since 1987 and hadn’t beaten them in the league since 1990, but King put in an inspired performance as Spurs came out of the clash victorious. His tackle on Arjen Robben remains one of the finest examples of defending in the club’s history.

By July 2012, King had announced his retirement from football due to his chronic injuries and pain. It was a day of sorrow for King, the club and the fans, but his announcement highlighted just how well-respected and rated he was by fans of other clubs, with a number of former foes paying tribute to a man many consider to be one of the most intelligent and complete English defenders produced in recent decades.

Indeed, Thierry Henry said: “I don’t like defenders who hold the shirts of other players. The only defender here who doesn’t do that and still gets the ball off my feet easily is Ledley King. He is the only guy who doesn’t hold players. He will get the ball off you without you even noticing.”

Unsurprisingly, King remains a popular figure at the club. He’s still a part of Tottenham as an ambassador, still sung about by the fans, and still sorely missed. What remain are the memories of his inspiring leadership from defence, and the inevitable what ifs. It wouldn’t be hyperbole to suggest that King could’ve been one of the world’s best central defenders had injuries not ruined a career heading towards its peak
https://thesefootballtimes.co/2017/09/22/ledley-king-and-the-art-of-cultured-defending/

 

green_smiley

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Few other points:

(1) Nilton Santos does not seem to be best fit considering his opponent is George Best. A more conservative rather than offensive-type full back would have been better, plus he can't afford to leave too much space to Best when going forward

(2) Thuram offers defensive solidity at RB, but offers very little attacking-wise. I don't see much threat coming from my left-hand side

(3) While Chumpitaz is highly-rated, his lack of pace may cost him here, especially with Best attacking from that side
 

Jim Beam

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Thought process... Saw GS team and went wow, saw willhse one then and went holy shit.

Would be a great midfield battle though.
 

Synco

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One thing I was thinking about: willhse456's backline looks fantastic individually, but the CB pairing is quite undersized. Seeler was short too, but an exceptional aerial threat.

@willhse456
What are the aerial abilities of your CBs? Can they subdue Seeler over 90 minutes in that regard?

@green_smiley
Is there a great crosser between Lennox and Marzolini? If they'd ping crosses from the left, Thuram can't move inside to help out against Seeler. Also, did Best bother to cross to his CF?
 

willhse456

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@willhse456 Any info on Houseman?
From the videos that I've seen, he's very quick and very good at dribbling.

128 goals in 338 appearances at club level, and 13 goals in 55 appearances for Argentina shows that he had an eye for goal too.

This video shows a glimpse of his ability:

 

green_smiley

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@green_smiley
Is there a great crosser between Lennox and Marzolini? If they'd ping crosses from the left, Thuram can't move inside to help out against Seeler. Also, did Best bother to cross to his CF?
I would say Lennox and Best are more of "trickster" type of attackers, i.e. they are more prominent in beating their markers rather than serving accurate crosses ala Beckham. Nevertheless, this will still open up space for the likes of Seeler, and present him with chance to score when he is at better position to do so

Haven't seen much of Marzolini, but from what I gather, he is more or less the balanced type when it comes to attacking

On the other hand, Amoros does able to ping good crosses in the box. Some of these instances are shown in harms' video below

 
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willhse456

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One thing I was thinking about: willhse456's backline looks fantastic individually, but the CB pairing is quite undersized. Seeler was short too, but an exceptional aerial threat.

@willhse456
What are the aerial abilities of your CBs? Can they subdue Seeler over 90 minutes in that regard?

@green_smiley
Is there a great crosser between Lennox and Marzolini? If they'd ping crosses from the left, Thuram can't move inside to help out against Seeler. Also, did Best bother to cross to his CF?
I'm not sure the size is too much of an issue. Best is more of an inside forward for example, and Amoros will have too much on his plate with Stoichkov to really help going forward.

The defenders certainly aren't tiny, and what Chumpitaz lacks in height, he makes up for it with his aggression.
 

Synco

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Cheers @both, so it looks like it's not a threat beyond what can always be expected from a CF like Seeler. In that case, not much left to argue about willhse's backline (+ Banks) for me, pretty amazing defense.
 

harms

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One thing I was thinking about: willhse456's backline looks fantastic individually, but the CB pairing is quite undersized. Seeler was short too, but an exceptional aerial threat.
I thought about it as well. Chumpitaz definitely doesn't seem like a great partner for Baresi, although Baresi himself was a fantastic header for his size, as well as Seeler.

Few other points:

(1) Nilton Santos does not seem to be best fit considering his opponent is George Best. A more conservative rather than offensive-type full back would have been better, plus he can't afford to leave too much space to Best when going forward
Come on, Nilton wasn't an offensive-type fullback in today's definition of the word.
 

Synco

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I thought about it as well. Chumpitaz definitely doesn't seem like a great partner for Baresi, although Baresi himself was a fantastic header for his size, as well as Seeler.
Hm, now you've got me thinking again.
 

Himannv

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Agree with the comments about Chumpitaz and I think it's a bit questionable to pick him in drafts where you don't have a taller CB alongside him to deal with the arial threat. At 5'6", I just don't see how he'd deal with someone like Batistuta who would just tower over him at 6'3". Even someone like Kocsis who isn't very tall but was great in the air might give him problems. I think he'd just about manage Seeler who just has an inch over him, but not sure how he'd fare against some other opponents.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Agree with the comments about Chumpitaz and I think it's a bit questionable to pick him in drafts where you don't have a taller CB alongside him to deal with the arial threat. At 5'6", I just don't see how he'd deal with someone like Batistuta who would just tower over him at 6'3". Even someone like Kocsis who isn't very tall but was great in the air might give him problems. I think he'd just about manage Seeler who just has an inch over him, but not sure how he'd fare against some other opponents.
From what I have seen, he was quite athletic and had a good leap on him as well.
 

Himannv

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From what I have seen, he was quite athletic and had a good leap on him as well.
I felt he was a strong player but haven't seen much of him in terms of arial battles. Having said that, you'd have to give him almost no chance against someone like Batigol who is close to being a foot taller while having a good leap on him as well.
 

Jim Beam

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From what I have seen, he was quite athletic and had a good leap on him as well.
Aye, that was my impression from little I've seen. Anticipating and positioning were his strongest attributes imo which along with his jumping ability meant he would not get dominated in the air. Yeah, he would have problems with Cristiano or some other towering striker, but who wouldn't.

Don't see any issues in Baresi - Chumpitaz. Aside from the clash who will intercept the ball first maybe?
 

harms

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I think he'd just about manage Seeler who just has an inch over him, but not sure how he'd fare against some other opponents.
It doesn't seem likely — "good leap" won't help with Seeler who was simply sensational, and definitely alongside the best ever in leap/aerial positioning despite of his size. Seeler made a fool of much taller defenders with a good leap on a regular basis.
 

Physiocrat

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From the videos that I've seen, he's very quick and very good at dribbling.

128 goals in 338 appearances at club level, and 13 goals in 55 appearances for Argentina shows that he had an eye for goal too.

This video shows a glimpse of his ability:

Thanks for the vid. Certainly looks like a quick tricky player
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Haven't seen it bought up in this game but expect to in a more tighter game.

Will's team is way too left sided.

Stoichkov, Zidane, Davids, Edwards.

Think Schuster instead of Davids might be more balanced.
 

willhse456

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Haven't seen it bought up in this game but expect to in a more tighter game.

Will's team is way too left sided.

Stoichkov, Zidane, Davids, Edwards.

Think Schuster instead of Davids might be more balanced.
I don't really understand what you mean? Zidane is playing centrally and Edwards on the right hand side of the midfield pairing.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I don't really understand what you mean? Zidane is playing centrally and Edwards on the right hand side of the midfield pairing.
Their preferred tendencies w.r.t the zones they had most impact on.

I don't know, I find it overlapping and not perfectly balanced. Probably others don't.

With Schuster and Zidane, below is how I see it being way more balanced.

 

Physiocrat

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I don't really understand what you mean? Zidane is playing centrally and Edwards on the right hand side of the midfield pairing.
I think GSTQ is saying that Edwards was a left half in old positions and Zidane liked playing in the inside left channel. I don't see an issue with Edwards but I can see to some extent an issue with Stoichkov but it isn't anything major
 

oneniltothearsenal

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As for Ledley King, the one that holds against him is his injury record, but there is no question of his defensive capability during his peak.
tbf he would have been injured in his last match ;)
 

willhse456

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Their preferred tendencies w.r.t the zones they had most impact on.

I don't know, I find it overlapping and not perfectly balanced. Probably others don't.

With Schuster and Zidane, below is how I see it being way more balanced.

Ah ok I see what you mean, I was considering Edwards as an anchor, but from what I've read/seen he's always played with a partner in close proximity, and I didn't want a repeat of the Nilton/Thuram wingback drama :lol:
 

harms

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Ah ok I see what you mean, I was considering Edwards as an anchor, but from what I've read/seen he's always played with a partner in close proximity, and I didn't want a repeat of the Nilton/Thuram wingback drama :lol:
Zidane
Edwards - Schuster​

was what I expected from you in this game, although it's a toss up between Edwards and Davids, really (but since you've picked him). Schuster as a deeper central midfielder, not in the same line as Zidane.
 

Synco

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It doesn't seem likely — "good leap" won't help with Seeler who was simply sensational, and definitely alongside the best ever in leap/aerial positioning despite of his size. Seeler made a fool of much taller defenders with a good leap on a regular basis.
That's what I was thinking of as well.

Found this Seeler goal collection, lots of examples of his heading ability, including what's probably his most famous goal, the back-of-the-head lob over Bonetti in the 1970 WC quarter final. All in all, a mix of outpositioning taller defenders, power/athleticism, and great technique/composure/killer instinct.


Seeler must have been an absolute menace to play against, and (judging by his 1970 performances) was also a tireless worker on and off the ball.

But I'll leave it at that. I've decided to put it down as as an ever-present goal threat, while noting that green_smiley's team doesn't seem to put too much emphasis on this element.
 
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willhse456

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Good game @green_smiley, I don't think it should have been as one sided as that. I really like your team and I thought that Best and Seeler would win more votes, but I guess the centre back pairing decided it in the end.
 

harms

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Yeah, if not for that CB pairing and Luis Conejo behind them, I would've probably voted for smiley. Will was so lucky to get Baresi!