Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

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MoBeats

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You’ve got to back him. The players have let him as well as everyone else down.
If we sack him now then no one in their right mind would want the job. Sacking someone 2 months after giving them the job? Don’t be daft.
 

MassiveMorgan

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I was hoping the back room staff would make up for Ole’s lack of tactical intelligence, but with no structure and Ole no longer cheerleading the squad the end result is the awful mess we have now
 

TrueRed79

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He won't be sacked before the start of next season but if he wants to survive in the job long-term, then he will have to ship 6/8 out and 6 in to stand any chance because this group of players he has are rotten to the core.
 

JEredDevil

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If Ole had joined in December and spread out his wins and losses more evenly but ended in 6th. place a lot of people on here would have been more forgiving. It appears that his dramatic start made people think we were better than we actually are. It is difficult to explain the two parts to the season since Ole arrived but, whatever, that is what has happened.

The only absolute truth in the matter is that we have a squad that is lacking in class players, have players who do not want to work as hard as 'pool and city and most other prem teams, and finally have too many players who are set in their ways and/or are over the hill. We should all know that a rebuild has been needed for a few years now and I don't mean tampering by putting a few big names in specific areas. We need a complete overall from top to bottom from youth set up and scouting to board level.

Now the hard part. Which one of the geniuses out there is going to put their money where their mouth is and say who should be the man to do this? Don't forget, if you are old enough to remember, Fergie had six years of similar to what we are doing now before a young lad called Mark Robins scored a goal in the cup that saved his bacon. Whoever could have predicted that?

It appears too many want instant success but it is a rare commodity although can be accelerated by lashings of money and good planning, but again may also need a succession of managers as well.
My thoughts exactly. I'm curious as to how these fans would react if the wins had been spread out more evenly. I remember that at one point during the great run, there was a table saying we were top of the league on points since Ole took over. Not sure if there's still a similar table around but i sure would like to find out in which position we are in right now. Ole's record since he took over stands at 16-4-9. Out of the 9 losses, 2 were from Barca, 1 each from PSG, Arsenal and City. Thats a win rate of about 55%. Ain't too bad actually. Things only started to derail after the PSG game and injuries crept up with us. I have this feeling where it seems the players thought the season was over after the PSG game. The comeback at PSG probably made us look better than we have been and we let that success got into our heads. Suddenly we are world beaters with this squad? And now when things have gone south again, its the manager's fault?
 

BlueHaze

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This is kinda post sums up the anti ole brigade. Blaming him for not playing some untested reserve team players rather than Smalling and Jones who despite being crap were the only suitable players for CB this season.

Almost everyone bashing ole and wanting him out here are being knee jerk and panicky. You don't build successful teams like that. You will never ever get instant success.

It takes time and for any of you to take 2 or 3 months of games to judge a manager is just childish.
Anti Ole brigade man? Where the feck did I say I wan't him out or I'm anti Ole?

If you wanna name call me, anti Glazer/Woodward is what I am.
 

In Rainbows

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Do you see playing players like Blackett, McNair and Love for Manchester United as some sort of achievement?

This naive throw the youth team into the first team shit needs to stop. Our reserves couldn't get promoted from the 2nd division. They can earn it like anyone else.
Our reserves play under Sbragia, and they're a unit. I never said we should let the whole team play. I'm not going to judge Gomes for example based on what Bernard does or how Tanner does.

Did Greenwood deserve to start? Of course he did based on his time in youth football. That's the same logic I'm using for Gomes, and O'Connor. That's also the same logic I'm using for Blackett, Mcnair, and Love. They did not deserve it. However, LVG did show bravery to play young players and showed he was willing to try new things if it meant it could help the side. Ole has stuck with Young and you know Young is going to give you crap football.

So what's your excuse for yesterday? That somehow Young was going to turn out a great performance? That this game was so meaningful, it greatly outweighed the positive of trying out O'Connor? Who knows whether O'Connor would have been a positive. None of us knew Greenwood would, but we might as well give it a go. Turns out he was better than his seniors.
 

Bobcat

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that's a really long winded way of saying our defense is shit.
This. In the first years of Pep and Klopp, City and Liverpool defenses were leaking really badly, because it's incredibly demanding compared to just packing your own box. Moyes wanted us to play low, LvG just wanted us to keep the ball, while Jose again wanted us to lay low and compact. Almost none of our defenders are used to playing high press, high line which only leaves us with two choices: Either coach them into the new system or get new players who are comfortable playing that way. Until Liverpool got Van Dijk, they were incredibly shaky at the back and we look the same

Smalling will struggle. Hes a decentish defender, but his ability with the ball at his feet is just not there and you can't have those kind of CB's when you aim at plying out from the back. Jones, Rojo and Baily look better then they are because they make some impressive last second tackles, but that's usually because they were way out of position in the first place, again, not really suitable for a high line since they will end up with a red card ever 3-4 games. Young and Dalot are awful RB choices, one is too old, the other too young.

Shaw and Lindelof are alright. Especially Shaw could improve his defending and has some nasty errors in him from time to time, but at least they seem adaptable enough to not completely shit themselves when asked to play and press high. We need a class RB and a class CB that both are comfortable playing the way Ole wants. If we don't both of those we will keep leaking goals and will probably end up in between 10th and 6th next season
 

SteveW

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Our reserves play under Sbragia, and they're a unit. I never said we should let the whole team play. I'm not going to judge Gomes for example based on what Bernard does or how Tanner does.

Did Greenwood deserve to start? Of course he did based on his time in youth football. That's the same logic I'm using for Gomes, and O'Connor. That's also the same logic I'm using for Blackett, Mcnair, and Love. They did not deserve it. However, LVG did show bravery to play young players and showed he was willing to try new things if it meant it could help the side. Ole has stuck with Young and you know Young is going to give you crap football.

So what's your excuse for yesterday? That somehow Young was going to turn out a great performance? That this game was so meaningful, it greatly outweighed the positive of trying out O'Connor? Who knows whether O'Connor would have been a positive. None of us knew Greenwood would, but we might as well give it a go. Turns out he was better than his seniors.
I watch the reserves. Greenwood is ready. Gomes is not a million miles away. The rest arent ready imo. I'm certainly not going to throw a fit over O'Connor v Young at this moment in time.
 

TRUERED89

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Someone like Van Gaal or Jose Mourinho maybe. I think that is the way to go. Two of the most proven managers there is.
Maybe even Moyes, 11 years with Everton, season with West Ham, managed in La Liga. Great experienced manager with pedigree!
 

Enigma_87

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Kind of hard to stick to it when half the squad started falling with hamstring injuries. He's talked countless times about fitness levels not being where they should be.
So we put the fitness and lack of players excuse till he get the sack due to poor results? When will people realize that most of the time it's the manager that is the driving force behind the results, and good tactics can hide the deficiencies of bad players. You can put the blind faith in of course, each to his own.

@Enigma_87 I'm going to give that massive post a read later but I'll warn you that these stills with arrows and what not are often extremely misleading and is just a way to bait people online to make it seem they know what they're talking about.

I can show you any goal Man City have conceded this season and show you how they were "tactically inept" due to which the goal was conceded.
It's not really something unpopular though mate. We know our defence is shit, we know we leave an awful amount of space between the lines. You can check the highlights and not only the stills. Our off the ball positioning is shocking and has been during that bad patch. Closing our eyes to it won't change that.
 

redIndianDevil

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Does someone remember Klopp's first season with Liverpool? He came in midseason and did feck all with a badly managed team. They didnt play good football, barely won any games and finished 8th I believe. Look at where they are today.

Ole doesnt have Klopp's credentials, but he showed to be very intelligent and he loves United to death, and will do whatever he can to succeed here, unlike some managers and players. I trust Ole, and truly believe he can be a success here.
A lot of people are happily forgetting that they reached Europa league final that year, beating us and Dortmund on the way to the finals.
 

Web of Bissaka

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He's harming his reputation the longer he stay and make these terrible decisions and joke interviews.

Thing is, the comments he made in interviews and conference is him "protecting" the players.
Job of a manager, which many managers did, not all.
But then the least he should do is to be ruthless in his player selections decisions. He don't.

And maybe he should start keeping his mouth shut in interviews, or at least stop talking too much.
Stop the player praises and just give a short simple comments.
 

BlueHaze

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You havent a clue if any of those players could hack it at that level. Its not FM. You're just venting here. Be realistic
Enough of this already we just have to agree to disagree. I can't sit here trying to convince someone the likes of those I mentioned are not good enough and should have been shown the door years ago. We were 12 points away from a 4th spot, we literally had nothing to lose giving some of the younger ones a chance. We now finished outside top 4 anyway and giving the young ones some experience in the process would not hurt us in any way.
 

redIndianDevil

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Starting well and running out of ideas tactically is more like it. Just look at the Chelsea game. We get a goal and sit back. They get a goal out of nothing and then the second half, we have no clue how to respond. I can’t wait for this fitness myth to end. You don’t need fitness to beat Cardiff or Huddersfield.
This. It's a myth that has been propagated by idiot top reds, you think Guardiola or Klopp will revert to park the bus football if their senior players go off injured? It's just like how it was with Mourinho, there were lot of people saying that if we had gotten him Wilian and Maguire we'd have been competing this year. It's absolutely silly.
 

SteveW

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So we put the fitness and lack of players excuse till he get the sack due to poor results? When will people realize that most of the time it's the manager that is the driving force behind the results, and good tactics can hide the deficiencies of bad players. You can put the blind faith in of course, each to his own
You asked why they aren't pressing as much as before. I said fitness.

And that was your response :confused:
 

redIndianDevil

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What exactly had he done in his career to make us sign him as a player? A little belief would help.

You gotta remember he is not steering this ship alone. He has the experience of Phelan etc with him and I am pretty sure he will have SAF to lean on.
This is getting silly now, there would have been a lot more work before we signed OGS as a player.
 

SteveW

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Enough of this already we just have to agree to disagree. I can't sit here trying to convince someone the likes of those I mentioned are not good enough and should have been shown the door years ago. We were 12 points away from a 4th spot, we literally had nothing to lose giving some of the younger ones a chance. We now finished outside top 4 anyway and giving the young ones some experience in the process would not hurt us in any way.
Do you watch the resrves and youths? Maybe do that first.

I'm well aware of the deficiencies in the first team squad
 

Enigma_87

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You asked why they aren't pressing as much as before. I said fitness.

And that was your response :confused:
My response is that it isn't fitness to not have a plan B when things aren't going your way.

It isn't fitness to be tactically naive and inept and don't have a proper structure and organization both in midfield and defence.

It isn't fitness when you bring in attackers with 5 mins to spare trying to make a turnaround.

It isn't fitness when you have the same tactical mistakes over and over again.

It isn't fitness when you keep playing off form players and leave liabilities in every line (Young, Lingard).

I can go on and on. You have the fitness excuse and not the right players. Come to think of it when you audition a manager who can't work with "the right players", why you give him the job anyway? Why would you appoint a manager who relies on high press, yet you don't have the roster for it midseason?

Wouldn't the right appointment be a manager who will get the best out of the current players and finish the season?
 

romufc

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We have to back the manager, we cannot let keep the players win? at some point the players have to take responsibilities. Whatever you say about Jose, Ole etc about managing, we have to beat Cardiff at home. The tables need to be turned, the club has to show the manager is in charge, and take a stance and get rid of players instead?

I really hope the club / Ole show some ruthlessness, whatever the reputation - If you do not perform or you get too big for the club you are out.
 
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Oggmonster

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I think it's obvious we've got to stick by him for a bit, can't keep chopping and changing managers and hope something sticks. He needs time to get players he wants in that will buy in to the way he plays. I think at times the football does look good you can see what they're going for it just seems the players can't do it. My worry is how he changes games when we're struggling or behind, he doesn't seem capable of oding it and some of his substitutions are just baffling really but again he doesn't exactly seem happy with the squad so it's hard to be to critical.
 

SteveW

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My response is that it isn't fitness to not have a plan B when things aren't going your way.

It isn't fitness to be tactically naive and inept and don't have a proper structure and organization both in midfield and defence.

It isn't fitness when you bring in attackers with 5 mins to spare trying to make a turnaround.

It isn't fitness when you have the same tactical mistakes over and over again.

It isn't fitness when you keep playing off form players and leave liabilities in every line (Young, Lingard).

I can go on and on. You have the fitness excuse and not the right players. Come to think of it when you audition a manager who can't work with "the right players", why you give him the job anyway? Why would you appoint a manager who relies on high press, yet you don't have the roster for it midseason?

Wouldn't the right appointment be a manager who will get the best out of the current players and finish the season?
Not sure I get your point here. He was given the job for 3 years. Not just for this season. This season was ruined by December.

It's a long term appointment. That means he will be allowed reshape the squad to play his way.
 

Celoti23-81

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Good t
@SteveW @shamans

what is your take on these, would love to hear your opinion on our shape in those examples. Again blamed on fitness or?

Spaces between the lines
Anyone who has ever coached or played football knows that you need to protect the space between your defensive and midfield lines. This is especially true against teams like Barcelona. In the image below, I’ve highlighted United’s defensive setup just before Coutinho made it 3-0. Lionel Messi is on the ball in midfield and plays a sweeping pass out to Jordi Alba. He could, though, just as easily have threaded it into Coutinho or Luis Suárez who are positioned between United’s defence and midfield. The central midfield duo of Fred and McTominay both push towards the ball while the defence drops, creating that huge space between the lines.



Alba has just played the ball back to Coutinho (yellow). Lindelöf, Smalling and Jones have all dropped while left-back Ashley Young has been to slow to retreat. The same goes for Fred in midfield. This means Barca are actually 3 vs 3 against United’s remaining defenders just outside the penalty area after just two passes from their own half. Young’s positional weakness is highlighted here as he should have dropped alongside his fellow defenders and been somewhere around where I’ve put the empty white circle. Then United would have been 4 vs 3 and could have let Smalling step out to Coutinho. Now they can’t and Coutinho has enough time to score beautifully.



This is just one example but United consistently give up space between the lines and allow teams time on the ball just outside their own penalty area. This is due to the poorly synchronised collective movements out of possession, and the individual mistakes in terms of basic positioning made by so many of their defenders and central midfielders.

Horrible positioning around the box
However, what perhaps is most startling for a team at United’s level is the horrible positioning around their penalty area. What I’ll look at now is truly amateur stuff. It seems laughable when you remember this team defended so well positionally as a collective at home against Liverpool and away to Chelsea and PSG.

Let’s start with a situation from the Manchester derby last week. Raheem Sterling has the ball and is up against Young. You can see United’s back-five in pretty good positions at this point.



In the image below, Sterling has now started to drive infield. Young (white) should just pass him onto Pereira (yellow) at this point. United are still in good positions to defend at this point with seven players behind the ball.



As you see below, Pereira has been easily beaten. Young has continued to follow Sterling’s run inside and now looks to put pressure on the winger. Please have a look at United’s back-five. It’s possible that you’ve never seen a back-five in these positions. Look at Smalling in particular who has dropped four yards deeper than his fellow centre-backs and plays Agüero and Silva onside.



As Sterling plays the ball to Gündogan, the German has a great chance to play a one-touch pass to David Silva who is onside all alone just in front of goal due to Smalling’s ridiculous positioning. United were lucky that he didn’t see this pass. If he had, Silva and Agüero would be 2 vs 1 against Smalling just outside the six-yard box. United have nine players here in the central area of the pitch but are poorly positioned as a collective.



United’s defensive players are consistently guilty of chasing the ball rather than keeping their positions around the box. The game against Watford provided plenty of examples of this. The image below highlights Roberto Pereyra as he has just received the ball. Young (white) is immediately attracted to the Argentinian. Smalling (blue) decides to pick up the run from Deulofeu into space behind Young.



Preferably, Young would have stayed in position, allowed Smalling to step up and picked up the run of Deulofeu. As it was, they changed positions. As the image below shows, this is still no issue. Smalling (yellow) provides pressure on the ball while Young (white) covers in as a centre-back.



This is where the ridiculousness kicks in again. The ball is played inside to Pereyra (blue) again. Smalling is still wide right having pressed Deulofeu. Young steps up to Pereyra. Nemanja Matić (black), United’s defensive midfielder, has now decided to leave his position and move very deep alongside Jones. When Will Hughes makes a run into this vacated space centrally, United’s left-back Luke Shaw (yellow) makes an unexplainable decision. He leaves his position (empty yellow circle) to mark Hughes. As Abdoulaye Doucouré makes a run into this space, Paul Pogba (white) is forced to go with him. So, rather than Shaw staying in his position and Pogba in his, United now have Shaw in central midfield and Pogba at left-back.



The ball is transferred to Deulofeu who cuts inside. As you see below, United have now a situational back-six. It reads, from right to left, Smalling-Young-Matić-Shaw-Jones-Pogba. With Herrera pressing Deulofeu, United have NO ONE defending the space outside the box. This is spectacularly unorganised at a level I’ve rarely seen at any level.



Luke Shaw has impressed with his individual defending in many games. His positional sense, however, leaves a lot to be desired. The image below highlights this perfectly well. For some reason, he has decided to mark Hughes four yards behind the rest of his teammates. As Jones, Young and Smalling have all changed positions in this situation, United are already disorganised. Shaw’s position means United have no cover on their left. Shaw should be somewhere around where I’ve put the black circle. Now, United have no player defending the left half of their penalty area and Watford create a chance from which Janmaat should have done better.



Finally, United also showcased these positional issues against West Ham. The image below shows the build-up for West Ham’s goal. At first, United’s defenders are in decent positions. Smalling (white) provides pressure on the ball while the other three provide cover behind him. Preferably, I’d have liked Jones a bit deeper, in the black circle, but it’s still a decent setup.



What then happens is symptomatic for United’s structural positional issues around their own box. As you see below, Smalling (white) now provides cover for Dalot as Lanzini has received the ball on West Ham’s left. This job should be done by Fred or Mata. Smalling, as the ball-near centre-back, should move back into the position highlighted to defend the first-post area. This would allow Jones to defend the middle of the goal and Rojo the back-post area. Mata and Pogba are too lazy to get back into the correct positions. This leaves United defending the cross 2 vs 2 when they should always have a numerical advantage in their own box. As it happens, Rojo’s individual defending is perhaps even worse than the collective as he allows Anderson to get to the cross first despite spending eight seconds looking straight at the Brazilian.



Man-orientated defending causing issues
When United enjoyed a good run and defended really well, they did so with an organised positional approach where each player kept their position rather than marking the closest opponent. Recently, however, the old Mourinho habits of chasing the ball and opponents have crept back into the players with plenty of them now making consistently poor decisions when defending. Let’s have a look at Manchester City’s second goal in the derby as an example.

In the image below we can see how Sterling skips past Fred with the Brazilian needlessly diving in rather than looking to delay Sterling’s run. Even worse, though, is the action of Lingard. He happens to be in a defensive midfield position and could easily have stopped or at least delayed Sterling by moving into the highlighted direction. What he does, however, is to stop and allow Sterling to run past him.



As Sterling now drives towards United’s back-three (as highlighted below), United’s three centre-backs are in really good positions. Despite City attacking 4 vs 3, this doesn’t look all that dangerous at this point. Amazingly, one run (Agüero’s) causes havoc for United. It’s not even a tough run to defend against, Darmian should pass Agüero on to Smalling who can just drop and block the potential pass.



In the image below we see the scene that has been doing the rounds on social media with United’s defenders in a straight vertical line. Instead of Darmian passing Agüero on to Smalling, the Italian followed the run as a man-orientated defender should. This leads to the open passing lane from Sterling to Sané. Had Darmian passed Agüero on, he could have prevented that pass from ever being made by standing in the highlighted space (yellow circle). Now, Sané is allowed a free run at goal.



On other occasions, United have struggled not because of their players following runners, but by opting not too. The below image highlights a situation against Watford. You would think United have this situation under control. There are four United players up against four Watford players. Let’s see what happens in the next image.



Three seconds later, Watford have exchanged a few passes and Hughes has made the highlighted run. Look at the three United players! Pogba, who marks Hughes in the image above, is pointing to Hughes, probably urging someone to mark him when in fact that’s his job. Kiko plays the pass into Hughes and Watford easily get into the penalty area.

Good analysis. Just goes to show its nothing to do with fitness or the players, it's TACTICAL. That last image, 3 players going to the ball, that is taught on the training pitch. Or players not following instructions.
 

Enigma_87

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Not sure I get your point here. He was given the job for 3 years. Not just for this season. This season was ruined by December.

It's a long term appointment. That means he will be allowed reshape the squad to play his way.
He really wasn't mate. He was given a caretaker job till the end of the season. Woodie jumped on the gun when we had a honeymoon period of 2 months.
 

Di Maria's angel

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The funny thing is, I really don't expect much from him, I can't see Ole coping with Klopp or Pep. For me enough would be if he had the pair of ball and clear up this mess of a team. Ship out all the deadwood and the shit we have assembled on enormous wages, and promote youth.

What he is doing it's far from that.
How would him achieving this show he can compete against City and Liverpool? Our football is abysmal. Our ability to beat the likes of Huddersfield or Cardiff shouldn't rely on any of the above. Truth is anyone of us could get rid of the deadwood and promote youth, doesn't mean we should be in the hot seat.
 

SteveW

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He really wasn't mate. He was given a caretaker job till the end of the season. Woodie jumped on the gun when we had a honeymoon period of 2 months.
You asked why we gave him the job considering he didn't have the right players to play his style for the rest of this season.
 

Woodzy

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Wonder how many of you backed this banner at the time?
That banner did the rounds enough on here when we hired Moyes and is very tedious. We shouldn’t compare every single thing this club does with Fergie’s reign.

Ole’s form as manager is sackable, there’s no two ways about it. Mid table clubs would be sacking their manager for such form.

There will be outrage if he is sacked, and rightly so, because the board have fecked up massively by taking him on.

With that said, he deserves to go and the club need to accept the backlash that comes with it because this is as much on them.
 

RAVred

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Either way its a lose lose situation for us.


Sack him and the role looks even more fragile and less attractive to other suitors and players.

Keep him and we will have a terrible next season with meh and insufficient development for our players and probably recruitment.

If we can get the likes of pochettino, jardem, tuchel, etc. Managers with actual tactical pedigree we should give him the resignation tomorrow.
 

Rutan

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I love Ole, he's a legend and he's done relatively well under the circumstances. But given this experience, that would make him really good as DOF. Get a manager with a better understanding of tactics, like Poch or Tuchel and have Ole support him as DOF. Ole has had a good view of the squad and understands the required profile of a United player so I think he'll be good at that. He's just not the level of manager we need to compete again at the very top.
 
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Web of Bissaka

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Ole the Caretaker,
Had nothing to lose, here to impress and take things easy, no pressure, no top 4 target or CL target, only until the end of season. Do whatever you want.
Did many bold and brave yet right decisions eg. dropping Lukaku, Mata and Sanchez as back-up with a pacy younger lineup of Martial-Rashford-Lingard. Finally make Herrera permanent starter as he should but Mourinho didn't. Football were awesome. He even throw in Chong and Greenwood in CL :lol: against PSG was it? also Barca 1st leg? Also his tactical decisions and player selections are so active and well thought out from the very first game, and he drilled it into his players head and they follow eg. I don't mind you lose the ball, as long as you get it back, or the changes to close the game, letting only the players on form start while the other to make impacts from subs and rotation games, if they want to start, make strong impression eg. Lukaku eventually crawled back to the first 11 once his game improves. Also he only gave Valencia one chance then we never see him again until the final farewell game recently. Even Sanchez at this time were put away from the first 11, only had few chances to prove his worth which failed.

Caretaker Ole were amazing.

Ole the Manager,
Gets complacent after the PSG comeback. Job secure with ridiculous contract length. Here to stay. Pressure to get top 4 and reach further in CL. Getting lazy. So naive.
Started to be smart and cheeky in his tactical decisions, but usually failed. Also opt to be too trusting to his favourites and the players that got him this job which we know didn't work and betray him with rubbish performances, and Ole still insist on playing them until the final game of the season. Chose to make safer decisions eg. relying more on the players that got him this job, but unfortunately made immature decisions eg. throw in Matic without Herrera or McTom to provide the legs, rush playing Matic back from injury who is clearly not fit, kept on throwing Lingard back from injury who still couldn't find his good form back, etc. Also trusting more on the older and established players. Decided to also go with British Core eg. Young, Smalling and Jones, eventhough clearly they're not good enough. Getting afraid to inject more youths into the team. And I don't see him drilling into his players what he expect from them... maybe he no longer have expectations, somehow shit coaching. Inconsistent decisions as well with him making a lot more bad decisions and stay with it eg. him kicking Herrera out just because of the contract dispute.. is poor since Ander is crucial to the game. We were better in that Chelsea game, but whatever. That Wolves FAC is also the first rubbish with him letting things be, sitting nicely on the bench. Suicide tactic vs Barca 2nd leg is another. Many Players no longer putting a shift even against rubbish teams eg. Cardiff, Huddersfield... are just pure madness, and the coaches are letting them be. Sanchez even given another chances the 2nd final game... just wow.

Manager Ole are naive and never learns.

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:annoyed: I don't mind a rookie manager if he showed (1) good signs of improving/learning in the job. Also need to have (2) good visions which must be (3) translated onto the players and (4) the players performed it on the pitch. None of those three things happened. It's only when he's the caretaker, and later on as permanent manager -- all only in his speech, nice cheap words anyway in interviews/conference.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,648
You asked why we gave him the job considering he didn't have the right players to play his style for the rest of this season.
He was the wrong appointment at the first place. Something what you would expect from Woodward.

That’s why you need DoF - to oversee the appointment and make sure his qualities correspond with the set up in place.

Do you believe it’s the right thing to do to give Ole 300m pounds or thereabouts to bring his own players? What happens if he fails? Bring in new manager - 2 more years and 300m more to bring his own players?

Ole is no Klopp. He’s no Pep. Those two do have a definite style and proven track record exerting that playing style. Ole has experience relegating Cardiff and couple of cups in tin pot Norwegian league.
 

MacabbiUnited

Full Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2015
Messages
316
Supports
Maccabi Tel Aviv - Israel
Starting well and running out of ideas tactically is more like it. Just look at the Chelsea game. We get a goal and sit back. They get a goal out of nothing and then the second half, we have no clue how to respond. I can’t wait for this fitness myth to end. You don’t need fitness to beat Cardiff or Huddersfield.
A lot of people are happily forgetting that they reached Europa league final that year, beating us and Dortmund on the way to the finals.
We were crap that year, Dortmund led 3-1 and completly collapsed and they lost to a mediocare Sevilla side in the final. I'd take our PSG moment in the CL ahead of their run in the EL any day of the week

Plus, we beat them in Anfield that year. And again, we were crap
 

Di Maria's angel

Captain of Moanchester United
Joined
Mar 19, 2014
Messages
14,795
Location
London
@SteveW @shamans

what is your take on these, would love to hear your opinion on our shape in those examples. Again blamed on fitness or?

Spaces between the lines
Anyone who has ever coached or played football knows that you need to protect the space between your defensive and midfield lines. This is especially true against teams like Barcelona. In the image below, I’ve highlighted United’s defensive setup just before Coutinho made it 3-0. Lionel Messi is on the ball in midfield and plays a sweeping pass out to Jordi Alba. He could, though, just as easily have threaded it into Coutinho or Luis Suárez who are positioned between United’s defence and midfield. The central midfield duo of Fred and McTominay both push towards the ball while the defence drops, creating that huge space between the lines.



Alba has just played the ball back to Coutinho (yellow). Lindelöf, Smalling and Jones have all dropped while left-back Ashley Young has been to slow to retreat. The same goes for Fred in midfield. This means Barca are actually 3 vs 3 against United’s remaining defenders just outside the penalty area after just two passes from their own half. Young’s positional weakness is highlighted here as he should have dropped alongside his fellow defenders and been somewhere around where I’ve put the empty white circle. Then United would have been 4 vs 3 and could have let Smalling step out to Coutinho. Now they can’t and Coutinho has enough time to score beautifully.



This is just one example but United consistently give up space between the lines and allow teams time on the ball just outside their own penalty area. This is due to the poorly synchronised collective movements out of possession, and the individual mistakes in terms of basic positioning made by so many of their defenders and central midfielders.

Horrible positioning around the box
However, what perhaps is most startling for a team at United’s level is the horrible positioning around their penalty area. What I’ll look at now is truly amateur stuff. It seems laughable when you remember this team defended so well positionally as a collective at home against Liverpool and away to Chelsea and PSG.

Let’s start with a situation from the Manchester derby last week. Raheem Sterling has the ball and is up against Young. You can see United’s back-five in pretty good positions at this point.



In the image below, Sterling has now started to drive infield. Young (white) should just pass him onto Pereira (yellow) at this point. United are still in good positions to defend at this point with seven players behind the ball.



As you see below, Pereira has been easily beaten. Young has continued to follow Sterling’s run inside and now looks to put pressure on the winger. Please have a look at United’s back-five. It’s possible that you’ve never seen a back-five in these positions. Look at Smalling in particular who has dropped four yards deeper than his fellow centre-backs and plays Agüero and Silva onside.



As Sterling plays the ball to Gündogan, the German has a great chance to play a one-touch pass to David Silva who is onside all alone just in front of goal due to Smalling’s ridiculous positioning. United were lucky that he didn’t see this pass. If he had, Silva and Agüero would be 2 vs 1 against Smalling just outside the six-yard box. United have nine players here in the central area of the pitch but are poorly positioned as a collective.



United’s defensive players are consistently guilty of chasing the ball rather than keeping their positions around the box. The game against Watford provided plenty of examples of this. The image below highlights Roberto Pereyra as he has just received the ball. Young (white) is immediately attracted to the Argentinian. Smalling (blue) decides to pick up the run from Deulofeu into space behind Young.



Preferably, Young would have stayed in position, allowed Smalling to step up and picked up the run of Deulofeu. As it was, they changed positions. As the image below shows, this is still no issue. Smalling (yellow) provides pressure on the ball while Young (white) covers in as a centre-back.



This is where the ridiculousness kicks in again. The ball is played inside to Pereyra (blue) again. Smalling is still wide right having pressed Deulofeu. Young steps up to Pereyra. Nemanja Matić (black), United’s defensive midfielder, has now decided to leave his position and move very deep alongside Jones. When Will Hughes makes a run into this vacated space centrally, United’s left-back Luke Shaw (yellow) makes an unexplainable decision. He leaves his position (empty yellow circle) to mark Hughes. As Abdoulaye Doucouré makes a run into this space, Paul Pogba (white) is forced to go with him. So, rather than Shaw staying in his position and Pogba in his, United now have Shaw in central midfield and Pogba at left-back.



The ball is transferred to Deulofeu who cuts inside. As you see below, United have now a situational back-six. It reads, from right to left, Smalling-Young-Matić-Shaw-Jones-Pogba. With Herrera pressing Deulofeu, United have NO ONE defending the space outside the box. This is spectacularly unorganised at a level I’ve rarely seen at any level.



Luke Shaw has impressed with his individual defending in many games. His positional sense, however, leaves a lot to be desired. The image below highlights this perfectly well. For some reason, he has decided to mark Hughes four yards behind the rest of his teammates. As Jones, Young and Smalling have all changed positions in this situation, United are already disorganised. Shaw’s position means United have no cover on their left. Shaw should be somewhere around where I’ve put the black circle. Now, United have no player defending the left half of their penalty area and Watford create a chance from which Janmaat should have done better.



Finally, United also showcased these positional issues against West Ham. The image below shows the build-up for West Ham’s goal. At first, United’s defenders are in decent positions. Smalling (white) provides pressure on the ball while the other three provide cover behind him. Preferably, I’d have liked Jones a bit deeper, in the black circle, but it’s still a decent setup.



What then happens is symptomatic for United’s structural positional issues around their own box. As you see below, Smalling (white) now provides cover for Dalot as Lanzini has received the ball on West Ham’s left. This job should be done by Fred or Mata. Smalling, as the ball-near centre-back, should move back into the position highlighted to defend the first-post area. This would allow Jones to defend the middle of the goal and Rojo the back-post area. Mata and Pogba are too lazy to get back into the correct positions. This leaves United defending the cross 2 vs 2 when they should always have a numerical advantage in their own box. As it happens, Rojo’s individual defending is perhaps even worse than the collective as he allows Anderson to get to the cross first despite spending eight seconds looking straight at the Brazilian.



Man-orientated defending causing issues
When United enjoyed a good run and defended really well, they did so with an organised positional approach where each player kept their position rather than marking the closest opponent. Recently, however, the old Mourinho habits of chasing the ball and opponents have crept back into the players with plenty of them now making consistently poor decisions when defending. Let’s have a look at Manchester City’s second goal in the derby as an example.

In the image below we can see how Sterling skips past Fred with the Brazilian needlessly diving in rather than looking to delay Sterling’s run. Even worse, though, is the action of Lingard. He happens to be in a defensive midfield position and could easily have stopped or at least delayed Sterling by moving into the highlighted direction. What he does, however, is to stop and allow Sterling to run past him.



As Sterling now drives towards United’s back-three (as highlighted below), United’s three centre-backs are in really good positions. Despite City attacking 4 vs 3, this doesn’t look all that dangerous at this point. Amazingly, one run (Agüero’s) causes havoc for United. It’s not even a tough run to defend against, Darmian should pass Agüero on to Smalling who can just drop and block the potential pass.



In the image below we see the scene that has been doing the rounds on social media with United’s defenders in a straight vertical line. Instead of Darmian passing Agüero on to Smalling, the Italian followed the run as a man-orientated defender should. This leads to the open passing lane from Sterling to Sané. Had Darmian passed Agüero on, he could have prevented that pass from ever being made by standing in the highlighted space (yellow circle). Now, Sané is allowed a free run at goal.



On other occasions, United have struggled not because of their players following runners, but by opting not too. The below image highlights a situation against Watford. You would think United have this situation under control. There are four United players up against four Watford players. Let’s see what happens in the next image.



Three seconds later, Watford have exchanged a few passes and Hughes has made the highlighted run. Look at the three United players! Pogba, who marks Hughes in the image above, is pointing to Hughes, probably urging someone to mark him when in fact that’s his job. Kiko plays the pass into Hughes and Watford easily get into the penalty area.

Don't you know? A pre-season will fix this.
 

JonDahl

Full Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
6,692
If you think for a second I'm wasting my time reading through all this after the quality of your last few posts you are sadly mistaken.
:lol:

It’s a proper FM post. Stills can be used to highlight absoluty any chance created to show deficiencies - that’s why there’s shots and goals in matches ffs. There’s plenty of sticks to beat Ole with but people come out with pictures and playing reserves that aren’t going to make it? Come on.
 

dove

New Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
7,899
@SteveW @shamans

what is your take on these, would love to hear your opinion on our shape in those examples. Again blamed on fitness or?

Spaces between the lines
Anyone who has ever coached or played football knows that you need to protect the space between your defensive and midfield lines. This is especially true against teams like Barcelona. In the image below, I’ve highlighted United’s defensive setup just before Coutinho made it 3-0. Lionel Messi is on the ball in midfield and plays a sweeping pass out to Jordi Alba. He could, though, just as easily have threaded it into Coutinho or Luis Suárez who are positioned between United’s defence and midfield. The central midfield duo of Fred and McTominay both push towards the ball while the defence drops, creating that huge space between the lines.



Alba has just played the ball back to Coutinho (yellow). Lindelöf, Smalling and Jones have all dropped while left-back Ashley Young has been to slow to retreat. The same goes for Fred in midfield. This means Barca are actually 3 vs 3 against United’s remaining defenders just outside the penalty area after just two passes from their own half. Young’s positional weakness is highlighted here as he should have dropped alongside his fellow defenders and been somewhere around where I’ve put the empty white circle. Then United would have been 4 vs 3 and could have let Smalling step out to Coutinho. Now they can’t and Coutinho has enough time to score beautifully.



This is just one example but United consistently give up space between the lines and allow teams time on the ball just outside their own penalty area. This is due to the poorly synchronised collective movements out of possession, and the individual mistakes in terms of basic positioning made by so many of their defenders and central midfielders.

Horrible positioning around the box
However, what perhaps is most startling for a team at United’s level is the horrible positioning around their penalty area. What I’ll look at now is truly amateur stuff. It seems laughable when you remember this team defended so well positionally as a collective at home against Liverpool and away to Chelsea and PSG.

Let’s start with a situation from the Manchester derby last week. Raheem Sterling has the ball and is up against Young. You can see United’s back-five in pretty good positions at this point.



In the image below, Sterling has now started to drive infield. Young (white) should just pass him onto Pereira (yellow) at this point. United are still in good positions to defend at this point with seven players behind the ball.



As you see below, Pereira has been easily beaten. Young has continued to follow Sterling’s run inside and now looks to put pressure on the winger. Please have a look at United’s back-five. It’s possible that you’ve never seen a back-five in these positions. Look at Smalling in particular who has dropped four yards deeper than his fellow centre-backs and plays Agüero and Silva onside.



As Sterling plays the ball to Gündogan, the German has a great chance to play a one-touch pass to David Silva who is onside all alone just in front of goal due to Smalling’s ridiculous positioning. United were lucky that he didn’t see this pass. If he had, Silva and Agüero would be 2 vs 1 against Smalling just outside the six-yard box. United have nine players here in the central area of the pitch but are poorly positioned as a collective.



United’s defensive players are consistently guilty of chasing the ball rather than keeping their positions around the box. The game against Watford provided plenty of examples of this. The image below highlights Roberto Pereyra as he has just received the ball. Young (white) is immediately attracted to the Argentinian. Smalling (blue) decides to pick up the run from Deulofeu into space behind Young.



Preferably, Young would have stayed in position, allowed Smalling to step up and picked up the run of Deulofeu. As it was, they changed positions. As the image below shows, this is still no issue. Smalling (yellow) provides pressure on the ball while Young (white) covers in as a centre-back.



This is where the ridiculousness kicks in again. The ball is played inside to Pereyra (blue) again. Smalling is still wide right having pressed Deulofeu. Young steps up to Pereyra. Nemanja Matić (black), United’s defensive midfielder, has now decided to leave his position and move very deep alongside Jones. When Will Hughes makes a run into this vacated space centrally, United’s left-back Luke Shaw (yellow) makes an unexplainable decision. He leaves his position (empty yellow circle) to mark Hughes. As Abdoulaye Doucouré makes a run into this space, Paul Pogba (white) is forced to go with him. So, rather than Shaw staying in his position and Pogba in his, United now have Shaw in central midfield and Pogba at left-back.



The ball is transferred to Deulofeu who cuts inside. As you see below, United have now a situational back-six. It reads, from right to left, Smalling-Young-Matić-Shaw-Jones-Pogba. With Herrera pressing Deulofeu, United have NO ONE defending the space outside the box. This is spectacularly unorganised at a level I’ve rarely seen at any level.



Luke Shaw has impressed with his individual defending in many games. His positional sense, however, leaves a lot to be desired. The image below highlights this perfectly well. For some reason, he has decided to mark Hughes four yards behind the rest of his teammates. As Jones, Young and Smalling have all changed positions in this situation, United are already disorganised. Shaw’s position means United have no cover on their left. Shaw should be somewhere around where I’ve put the black circle. Now, United have no player defending the left half of their penalty area and Watford create a chance from which Janmaat should have done better.



Finally, United also showcased these positional issues against West Ham. The image below shows the build-up for West Ham’s goal. At first, United’s defenders are in decent positions. Smalling (white) provides pressure on the ball while the other three provide cover behind him. Preferably, I’d have liked Jones a bit deeper, in the black circle, but it’s still a decent setup.



What then happens is symptomatic for United’s structural positional issues around their own box. As you see below, Smalling (white) now provides cover for Dalot as Lanzini has received the ball on West Ham’s left. This job should be done by Fred or Mata. Smalling, as the ball-near centre-back, should move back into the position highlighted to defend the first-post area. This would allow Jones to defend the middle of the goal and Rojo the back-post area. Mata and Pogba are too lazy to get back into the correct positions. This leaves United defending the cross 2 vs 2 when they should always have a numerical advantage in their own box. As it happens, Rojo’s individual defending is perhaps even worse than the collective as he allows Anderson to get to the cross first despite spending eight seconds looking straight at the Brazilian.



Man-orientated defending causing issues
When United enjoyed a good run and defended really well, they did so with an organised positional approach where each player kept their position rather than marking the closest opponent. Recently, however, the old Mourinho habits of chasing the ball and opponents have crept back into the players with plenty of them now making consistently poor decisions when defending. Let’s have a look at Manchester City’s second goal in the derby as an example.

In the image below we can see how Sterling skips past Fred with the Brazilian needlessly diving in rather than looking to delay Sterling’s run. Even worse, though, is the action of Lingard. He happens to be in a defensive midfield position and could easily have stopped or at least delayed Sterling by moving into the highlighted direction. What he does, however, is to stop and allow Sterling to run past him.



As Sterling now drives towards United’s back-three (as highlighted below), United’s three centre-backs are in really good positions. Despite City attacking 4 vs 3, this doesn’t look all that dangerous at this point. Amazingly, one run (Agüero’s) causes havoc for United. It’s not even a tough run to defend against, Darmian should pass Agüero on to Smalling who can just drop and block the potential pass.



In the image below we see the scene that has been doing the rounds on social media with United’s defenders in a straight vertical line. Instead of Darmian passing Agüero on to Smalling, the Italian followed the run as a man-orientated defender should. This leads to the open passing lane from Sterling to Sané. Had Darmian passed Agüero on, he could have prevented that pass from ever being made by standing in the highlighted space (yellow circle). Now, Sané is allowed a free run at goal.



On other occasions, United have struggled not because of their players following runners, but by opting not too. The below image highlights a situation against Watford. You would think United have this situation under control. There are four United players up against four Watford players. Let’s see what happens in the next image.



Three seconds later, Watford have exchanged a few passes and Hughes has made the highlighted run. Look at the three United players! Pogba, who marks Hughes in the image above, is pointing to Hughes, probably urging someone to mark him when in fact that’s his job. Kiko plays the pass into Hughes and Watford easily get into the penalty area.

Don't waste your time, it's hopeless. Apparently it's all down to fitness.
 
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