Current state of the world game?

[Bobski]

What do we think?

The last WC was entertaining in spells but the quality was mediocre at best. The CL has not had a truly great team for some time, perhaps the first of Madrid's run, but more likely peak Pep Barca circa 2011.

That match tonight was dreadful, but we shouldn't react to one game, heat, time since last game, pressure of occasion. However the standard of midfield play was stunningly bad, not that much of a surprise given the players. This years competition has been fun, but much like the WC, much of that is due to some very flawed teams. My take is that this generation of players is weaker than previous times, especially in key areas like Striker/Cm and CB.

 

[Njord]

If we are to believe that the level of football has gone down, which I don't necessarily agree with, then the best explanation for me is how top clubs deal with talents. They have scouts around the world, picking up all the best talents before they're 18, and then put them into a system with loan after loan, that I'll never believe is good for development.

If the 10 biggest clubs do this with 10 talents from each age group, then we have 100 of the biggest talents from every year that, imo., don't follow an optimal path of development. And those who actually make it is given huge contracts before they're 20, which impact a lot of them negatively.

 

[carvajal]

Too physical and intense for my taste. I'm sick of the word pace.
Because of the new tactics and the defensive helps the wingers have died, and it seems that every day it is less interesting to have an "Isco" in the team but midfielders with presence.

 

[11101]

The game has become more about the system and tactics than the players, which is why such limited players as Henderson are lifting the European Cup. You could swap him with half the midfielders in the PL and the Liverpool system would still work. Its becoming a game of attrition.

 

[Paxi]

Too physical and intense for my taste. I'm sick of the word pace.
Because of the new tactics and the defensive helps the wingers have died, and it seems that every day it is less interesting to have an "Isco" in the team but midfielders with presence.

I really respect you lad and I always enjoy interacting with you but saying the game is too physical is just preposterous.

The game of full little pansies.

Guys like Isco aren’t good enough. Listen, look at your Spain 2008 squad. Sheer skill and power. Where would Isco fit in? It’s nonsense lad. Spain are a wonderful footballing nation but no way should they hide behind ‘pace’

 

[RedDevilCanuck]

Like hockey, great players with amazing physical skills but a lack of true creative genius.

 

[Canagel]

Very boring. Everything is too processed and overtrained. There's no more skills or maverick entertaining players. Just remembering Kaka beautiful assist in 2005 final and then two midfields in 2019 final with zero creativity in it. Probably one of the worst finals I ever seen.

 

[Snowjoe]

Lower league football is much more fun, probably helps that they aren’t as good as the top teams at defending and boring tactical play

 

[WR10]

Money > passion these days. The talent and skill is there but what’s the point of trying hard?

Football was brilliant when footballers played like football was their identity and purpose in life. Some players do today but the majority at the top level get paid way too much to truly care.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

A great philosopher once said that Isco’s head was too big for his body.

 

[adexkola]

The game has become more about the system and tactics than the players, which is why such limited players as Henderson are lifting the European Cup. You could swap him with half the midfielders in the PL and the Liverpool system would still work. Its becoming a game of attrition.

This is an interesting thesis.

 

[Jacob]

Too tactical. Seems to be more attention on nullifying opponents rather than leveraging your own strengths. You can do both of course but I think latter takes the back seat when stakes are high.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Game is definitely too boring and level is not the same. Everything is too processed and overtrained. There's no more skills or maverick entertaining players. Just remembering Kaka beautiful assist in 2005 final and then two midfields in 2019 final with zero creativity in it.

Exactly why the classic Laudrup, Riquelme, Rui Costa don’t exist anymore. Creative midfielders are more like Eriksen these days. A little less ingenuity and sublime and a little more work ethic.

 

[Patrick08]

Possession and high pressing and total football is the new norm. We are still struck in last decade.

 

[bosnian_red]

The level is still as high as it ever is IMO. I would say that the top level around Europe stays pretty stable, just changes between leagues and teams who the "top" team is. Late 2000's it was United, Chelsea and Barca. Early-mid 2010's was Barca, Real Madrid and Bayern. Late 2010's its City, Liverpool and (up until this season) Real Madrid. City and Liverpool of these last 2 seasons can compete with any of the top teams over the years. Others like Bayern/Barca aren't anywhere close to what they were 5-10 years ago, but others stepped up. Where for most the last decade, Barca vs Madrid was the peak of European football and the 2 most talented squads and best footballing teams, that's sadly now our 2 biggest rivals.

Hopefully Pep leaves City soon enough and hopefully Klopp decides he doesnt want to stay there for too much longer, because with those 2 managers, they're going to be the main top teams in Europe unfortunately.

 

[Raoul]

What do we think?

The last WC was entertaining in spells but the quality was mediocre at best. The CL has not had a truly great team for some time, perhaps the first of Madrid's run, but more likely peak Pep Barca circa 2011.

That match tonight was dreadful, but we shouldn't react to one game, heat, time since last game, pressure of occasion. However the standard of midfield play was stunningly bad, not that much of a surprise given the players. This years competition has been fun, but much like the WC, much of that is due to some very flawed teams. My take is that this generation of players is weaker than previous times, especially in key areas like Striker/Cm and CB.

Football is broken. Too commercialized, too many Oligarchs and Sheikhs creating an arms race of transfer fees, agents out of control, players obsessed with social media, club loyalty is fleeting, and to top it all off, FIFA are doing a winter WC which will disrupt the leagues. A fecking mess to say the least.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

People are just bitching because Liverpool won and they’re upset at the English sides doing well. This years CL has been fantastic in terms of entertainment with some of the best ties ever with plenty of goals. The idea that it’s become a game of attrition is nonsense. Regardless of the outside economic influence I can’t really see how anything is declining in a sporting sense.

The final was terrible granted, Spurs were wretched and Liverpool slightly less so but it happens.

 

[Skills]

I really respect you lad and I always enjoy interacting with you but saying the game is too physical is just preposterous.

The game of full little pansies.

Guys like Isco aren’t good enough. Listen, look at your Spain 2008 squad. Sheer skill and power. Where would Isco fit in? It’s nonsense lad. Spain are a wonderful footballing nation but no way should they hide behind ‘pace’

First thing that comes to mind when I think of Iniesta, Xavi, David Silva and co.

 

[11101]

This is an interesting thesis.

It's pretty true imo. Obviously you couldn't just swap the entire team but the players are far more interchangeable. Hard work and playing to the system trumps ability in the modern top tier game.

Looking back at past great teams they definitely had more standout individual players.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

First thing that comes to mind when I think of Iniesta, Xavi, David Silva and co.

People complained that Spain were dull as shite too and they were for the most part. They keep the ball on the floor though.

 

[GatoLoco]

I really respect you lad and I always enjoy interacting with you but saying the game is too physical is just preposterous.

The game of full little pansies.

Guys like Isco aren’t good enough. Listen, look at your Spain 2008 squad. Sheer skill and power. Where would Isco fit in? It’s nonsense lad. Spain are a wonderful footballing nation but no way should they hide behind ‘pace’

Isco has four CL medals having played a big part in most of them, so it doesn't really make sense to say he's not good enough.

In whatever case Carvajal's point is about the Isco kind player not the player himself.

Very boring. Everything is too processed and overtrained. There's no more skills or maverick entertaining players. Just remembering Kaka beautiful assist in 2005 final and then two midfields in 2019 final with zero creativity in it. Probably one of the worst finals I ever seen.

I think Valdano made a similar point after the Chelsea-Liverpool semifinal in 2005. But since then we have seen plenty of teams with both creativity and physicality be dominant, so maybe it's something temporary after all.

 

[Patrick08]

Very boring. Everything is too processed and overtrained. There's no more skills or maverick entertaining players. Just remembering Kaka beautiful assist in 2005 final and then two midfields in 2019 final with zero creativity in it. Probably one of the worst finals I ever seen.

It's about a team now than set of individuals.

 

[carvajal]

I really respect you lad and I always enjoy interacting with you but saying the game is too physical is just preposterous.

The game of full little pansies.

Guys like Isco aren’t good enough. Listen, look at your Spain 2008 squad. Sheer skill and power. Where would Isco fit in? It’s nonsense lad. Spain are a wonderful footballing nation but no way should they hide behind ‘pace’

It does not have to do with Spain having more or less options to win.
Nowadays the game is too direct and much more physical than before.
I do not like racing games, I like to enjoy midfielders in another way, and I think that today it is not possible.

Conversations about intensity, physical preparation in different points of the season, midfielders capable of supporting the team, defensive sacrifice, solidarity. I never thought I would be worried about who is the physical trainer of Madrid. Possibly I would not even know his name.

For me Isco is one of the midfielders with best individual technique in the world. But even if you don´t like him the figure of the classic 10 who gives the beautiful pass and defends little is disappearing because it's not worth it.

 

[Bobski]

People complained that Spain were dull as shite too and they were for the most part. They keep the ball on the floor though.

Also needs to be mentioned that the styles of play now are a direct response to the Tiki-Taka Spain/Barca era. They murdered teams with a smothering possession game. High pressing, work horse midfields and quick transitions became the way to deal with that style.

City, and Pep's Bayern are the holdover, but both those teams lose in the CL knockouts to teams playing in that style I mentioned. They also have had the benefit of overwhelming quality. I mean, does anyone doubt City have the best squad in Europe in terms of individual quality?

 

[Paxi]

First thing that comes to mind when I think of Iniesta, Xavi, David Silva and co.

Don’t get it? Thought they absolutely abused their colleagues at times. Not only were they excellent they also ran like fecking animals. Hence the doping claims?

 

[giorno]

Too physical and intense for my taste. I'm sick of the word pace.
Because of the new tactics and the defensive helps the wingers have died, and it seems that every day it is less interesting to have an "Isco" in the team but midfielders with presence.

For me it's the other way around. Love the pace and i think that's the direction the game is going

As for having a Isco in midfield, there's plenty of technical magicians who have no trouble with the current pace of the game. Isco is just not a great player, is all. De Bruyne, Pogba, Thiago, Modric, De Jong...those guys have no problem

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

2013 Bayern were a great team.

 

[Paxi]

It does not have to do with Spain having more or less options to win.
Nowadays the game is too direct and much more physical than before.
I do not like racing games, I like to enjoy midfielders in another way, and I think that today it is not possible.

Conversations about intensity, physical preparation in different points of the season, midfielders capable of supporting the team, defensive sacrifice, solidarity. I never thought I would be worried about who is the physical trainer of Madrid. Possibly I would not even know his name.

For me Isco is one of the midfielders with best individual technique in the world. But even if you don´t like him the figure of the classic 10 who gives the beautiful pass and defends little is disappearing because it's not worth it.

I would have to disagree with you in the way I see the game. It’s all in cycles. In fact, Spain only found that recently in my opinion. Unbelievable players with technical skills. Yes I do not like players who are racing about but remember Torres and how he stretched defences with his pace? Now you’re toothless. Its about balance in my opinion. But my friend, I do not think Isco belongs anywhere near anywhere really... He’s a lovely player but...who?

 

[Paxi]

First thing that comes to mind when I think of Iniesta, Xavi, David Silva and co.

Remember them absolutely hammering Russia in the group stages at Euro 2008.
Russia were a fantastic team that tournament. Second best in my option but they absolutely burned right through them.

 

[GatoLoco]

2013 Bayern were a great team.

Yes, they were truely awesome.

 

[Paxi]

People complained that Spain were dull as shite too and they were for the most part. They keep the ball on the floor though.

I actively hunt people down and punch them for this.

They’ve rewritten how football is played. Even though The Netherlands made it possible — Spain made it sexy.

 

[FootyCrew]

The game is the same.

Many are overreacting just because Liverpool won a CL playing horrible in the Final.

 

[Aloysius's Back 3]

As LVG said - every club should have a philosophy.

The first club to properly highlight this was Barcelona with Pep highlighting the ability of 11 players playing possession football. Klopp has added gegenpressing to the world ever since Dortmund & more will come in the future.

As others have said - the players individually are not important its how they play in a group of 11 that is.

 

[carvajal]

I would have to disagree with you in the way I see the game. It’s all in cycles. In fact, Spain only found that recently in my opinion. Unbelievable players with technical skills. Yes I do not like players who are racing about but remember Torres and how he stretched defences with his pace? Now you’re toothless. Its about balance in my opinion. But my friend, I do not think Isco belongs anywhere near anywhere really... He’s a lovely player but...who?

We see football in another way my friend, I also respect you a lot.
Maybe I don´t get along with this Liverpool team or Klopp. Winning with that midfield...is painful for the yes.
As @11101 I have the feeling that they could have changed the midfield and nothing would change. Or maybe I'm just belittling the team spirit and all that.

For me it's the other way around. Love the pace and i think that's the direction the game is going

As for having a Isco in midfield, there's plenty of technical magicians who have no trouble with the current pace of the game. Isco is just not a great player, is all. De Bruyne, Pogba, Thiago, Modric, De Jong...those guys have no problem

De Bruyne maybe but Thiago, Pogba, De Jong are not in the category of "fantasista","mediapunta" where could be Laudrup, Guti, Riquelme,etc.
Of course it´s the direction of the future, but a future where Odegaard goes to the bench because 3 nutmegs doesn´t justify the presence in the line-up

 

[FootballHQ]

Leagues are more of a problem than CL imo, it's become far too boring at the top now.

CL was a brilliant tournament to watch this year, shame the final was awful but many great knock out matches.

 

[giorno]

We see football in another way my friend, I also respect you a lot.
Maybe I don´t get along with this Liverpool team or Klopp. Winning with that midfield...is painful for the yes.
As @11101 1 I have the feeling that they could have changed the midfield and nothing would change. Or maybe I'm just belittling the team spirit and all that.

Their forwards on top form are spectacular to watch though. And i disagree about their midfield. They went after players with very specific strengths that meshed with Klopp's ideas and were the perfect support for the defence and attack. The job of the midfield is support, it's always been that way

De Bruyne maybe but Thiago, Pogba, De Jong are not in the category of "fantasista","mediapunta" where could be Laudrup, Guti, Riquelme,etc.
Of course it´s the direction of the future, but a future where Odegaard goes to the bench because 3 nutmegs doesn´t justify the presence in the line-up

Messi is. So's Bernardo Silva, David Silva, Eriksen, Dybala, Hazard, James, Coutinho...

Pogba is not quite that type of player(more like Iniesta really) but he's a joy to watch on the ball and effective as well.

Doing 3 nutmegs never justified your presence on the pitch for a top team. It's always been a bonus. Denilson was one of the best at that, and he never amounted to anything, and would have never amounted to anything in any era because as Xavi perfectly put it "being entertaining and being good are two very different things"

 

[adexkola]

People complained that Spain were dull as shite too and they were for the most part. They keep the ball on the floor though.

Their games became dull affairs when the opposition dragged a 747 onto the pitch. For teams that came to play, they had fascinating games.

 

[passing-wind]

I feel like football has evolved and if anything teams (average ones even) are far more likely to give it go.

This has easily been one of the best UCL campaigns in recent time for me. Barcelona losing a 3-0 lead, the tug of war with City / Spurs, Ajax dethroning Madrid / Juventus playing a very high standard of football, us dumping out PSG, some the displays have been excellent. I can't remember in recent times a final being dramatic and full of twists and turns. I think managers take a more practical approach to give their respective teams the safest platform to win a game.

The world cup towards the knockouts also housed some good performances, Belgium were the most attacking team with such a dynamic formation under Martinez.

Happy to see that the likes of Mourinho's football is finished, we can thank modern european coaches for diversifying the league in this regard additionally.

 

[Synco]

Looks like there's a trend to favour intensity and directness over precision recently. But I don't see any reason why teams like Spurs or Liverpool couldn't theoretically add better passing to their game. (Although this is certainly not easy to achieve, and dependent on having the right players.) I guess it will happen long term, perhaps with a new generation of top level managers. City are probably closest to this atm, but it didnt translate into success in Europe so far.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Looks like there's a trend to favour intensity and directness over precision recently. But I don't see any reason why teams like Spurs or Liverpool couldn't theoretically add better passing to their game. (Although this is certainly not easy to achieve, and dependent on having the right players.) I guess it will happen long term, perhaps with a new generation of top level managers. City are probably closest to this atm, but it didnt translate into success in Europe so far.

Liverpool managed to keep a good amount of possession vs City(more than any other team did vs City) in both games.

Their game today was clearly an isolated incident of their passing being so poor.