Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2021/22 Discussion

[Hawks2008]

He is morphing into a bag of hot air to be honest. There's a lot of talk and no action whatsoever. This has been the case since he was given the job permanently. He's talked and talked and nothing he has addressed has come to fruition, not a single thing. Transfers, replacing players, style of play, faith in youth (for the most part), 'the United way', its nothing but lip service as he limps from game to game praying something finally clicks. He's buying time and preying on the sentiments of the fanbase to help him along.

Agreed, his talk is just a constant stream of platitudes and sentiment. It borders on parody but the real joke is that some people are lapping it up.

 

[Mainoldo]

Sponsorships were always part of the game, and who footballers date in their personal lives is not related to the issue. The club itself has become far more commercial driven in its objectives and succumbs to media driven hype way more post Woodward, not in the Fergie days. You're basically loosening the rules to suggest anyone media related is a problem at the club.

In other words, you're completely lost. I'm sorry there's no other way to put it and it's not worth debating in an Ole thread.

This is all in your head my guy. We live in a social media world where if you don’t like someone’s post they think you’ve fallen out with them. But you don’t except football to have the same trajectory? What world do you live in? Next you will be telling me where are a lot more political correct as a Club these days to when Fergie was in charge. He would never allow a United women’s team. Takes away the focus from the first team.

You’re just chatting crap. But I’m not surprised most United fans are stuck in the past. Hence why we accept half the stuff that goes on now. We fail to move on.

 

[b82REZ]

Chose and chose. We all agreed something should be done in defense and the club did something. Money don’t grow on trees and the club decided to fix that part first. We could have gone for fixing attack but it would also mean leaking goals. He would get stick either way. And for what I know Ole wasn’t the only one deciding.



If you look at statistic and believe, the answer is yes. If my sources are correct.



I took my data from a website below. If you believe in it and if it is correct. I haven’t dubblechecked it.
https://www.stretfordend.co.uk/menu.html

Ole should be the only one deciding. We have no DoF so the buck ends with the manager.

Like I said AWB would have solved a lot of our defensive issues. I fail to see what Maguire has really added over Smalling apart from a 80m hole in our transfer budget.

It was negligence to not strengthen the attack and there's no excuses for his decisions.

 

[90 + 5min]

Ole should be the only one deciding. We have no DoF so the buck ends with the manager.

Like I said AWB would have solved a lot of our defensive issues. I fail to see what Maguire has really added over Smalling apart from a 80m hole in our transfer budget.

It was negligence to not strengthen the attack and there's no excuses for his decisions.

Well, that's not really how it goes in the club. Maybe it should but it doesn't. When a manager like Mourinho and vanGaal don't get what they want (right or wrong, depends on who you ask) how can someone expect that Solskjaer would decide on transfers. He is involved in some way but there are lot of people in those decisions. And moneymen are one of them. If Solskjaer would choose I think he would get rid of at least 10 more players without shadow of the doubt. Even if he says other things in media, that he is "happy" with what he got.

You seem to rate Smalling if I'm not misstaken. I don't. I think he was and still is a risk. He does have a heart and will. He even has talent but so does lot of players. And still something is wrong when he plays. To many misstakes. To many bad decisions. We needed a centerback. Maguire was expansive but we are better defensivly with him. Problem with buying expensive players is as you said hole in the budget but the club took that risk and left with week team upfront and midfield. Or first 11 is good but problems are when we see those injuries who hit us early. Injuries on starting players.

 

[b82REZ]

Well, that's not really how it goes in the club. Maybe it should but it doesn't. When a manager like Mourinho and vanGaal don't get what they want (right or wrong, depends on who you ask) how can someone expect that Solskjaer would decide on transfers. He is involved in some way but there are lot of people in those decisions. And moneymen are one of them. If Solskjaer would choose I think he would get rid of at least 10 more players without shadow of the doubt. Even if he says other things in media, that he is "happy" with what he got.

You seem to rate Smalling if I'm not misstaken. I don't. I think he was and still is a risk. He does have a heart and will. He even has talent but so does lot of players. And still something is wrong when he plays. To many misstakes. To many bad decisions. We needed a centerback. Maguire was expansive but we are better defensivly with him. Problem with buying expensive players is as you said hole in the budget but the club took that risk and left with week team upfront and midfield. Or first 11 is good but problems are when we see those injuries who hit us early. Injuries on starting players.

That's just not true. We will have scouts etc but ultimately Solskjaer decides who he signs and sells.

Also conceding in practically every game does not make our defence better.

 

[Foxbatt]

I am amazed that there are people who still defend Ole. I guess we had people defending Moyes too.
When Manchester United is having doubts about beating a newly promoted Norwich City then certainly the manager at United should be sacked.

 

[Strelok]

I am amazed that there are people who still defend Ole. I guess we had people defending Moyes too.
When Manchester United is having doubts about beating a newly promoted Norwich City then certainly the manager at United should be sacked.

Even Moyes, VG and Jose had people defending them so why you're amazed ?

Tbf Norwich beating City is the main reason why people having doubts.

Anyway, agreed that what Ole said is not ok, he should have not said that.

 

[Judas]

Norwich beating City has nothing to do with my doubts, my doubts are purely based on how shite we are, nothing to do with the opposition. Norwich are not a good team, but that doesn't matter.

 

[Untd55]

Haha you can't do that. Nothing fundamentally changed between him as an interim manager and him as a permanent manager, besides signing a contract. You can't make arbitrary cutoffs to make him look worse.

Statistical analysis frequently removes aberrational results to show the pattern. I am not really sure why people don't understand this point. Including his time as temporary manager is clearly inflating his win rate because his win rate during that period was abnormal.

Win Rate
Solskjaer: Win Rate - 24% (Permanent Manager - 25 games)
Solskjaer: Win Rate - 82% (Temporary - 17 games)

Nobody will sustain a win rate of 82%, so it was expected that this would drop on average. However, the drop has gone from a period of 82% win rate to a larger period of only 24% win rate.

Clearly, something has changed between his period as a temporary manager and his period as a permanent manager. That difference is expectations. There were zero expectations of him as a temporary manager, not in signing players, implementing a playstyle; nor in position. As soon as he became a permanent manager, expectations suddenly existed and he has completely failed to deal with it.

A lot of temporary managers just give the players freedom to play the way they want, but permanent managers do not allow that. Permanent managers want/have to implement their own style of play. Just look at Di Matteo winning the Champion's League and then completely failing as a permanent manager. Neither Manutd nor Chelsea were that good under these temporary managers, but they managed to churn out a great series of results. Reality inevitably sets in when a role is made permanent.

It is clear that the initial period was from a new manager bounce of giving freedom to the players, but this will never last. The manager has to eventually implement a style of play to succeed. He has been a complete failure in this regard.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the end, this is irrelevant. The only question that really matters is: is the record below good enough over a 25 game period?

Solskjaer: Win Rate - 24% (Permanent Manager - 25 games)
Solskjaer: Goals Scored - 0.84 (Permanent Manager - 25 games)
Solskjaer: Goals Conceded - 1.32 (Permanent Manager - 25 games)

It is indefensible.

 

[elnorte]

I am amazed that there are people who still defend Ole. I guess we had people defending Moyes too.
When Manchester United is having doubts about beating a newly promoted Norwich City then certainly the manager at United should be sacked.

Truth be told I barely remember any defence of Moyes and certainly nothing like the level we are seeing with Solskjaer. Of course club history has a very large bearing although all things being equal it probably shouldn't.

 

[90 + 5min]

Statistical analysis frequently removes aberrational results to show the pattern. I am not really sure why people don't understand this point. Including his time as temporary manager is clearly inflating his win rate because his win rate during that period was abnormal.

Win Rate
Solskjaer: Win Rate - 24% (Permanent Manager - 25 games)
Solskjaer: Win Rate - 82% (Temporary - 17 games)

Nobody will sustain a win rate of 82%, so it was expected that this would drop on average. However, the drop has gone from a period of 82% win rate to a larger period of only 24% win rate.

Clearly, something has changed between his period as a temporary manager and his period as a permanent manager. That difference is expectations. There were zero expectations of him as a temporary manager, not in signing players, implementing a playstyle; nor in position. As soon as he became a permanent manager, expectations suddenly existed and he has completely failed to deal with it.

A lot of temporary managers just give the players freedom to play the way they want, but permanent managers do not allow that. Permanent managers want/have to implement their own style of play. Just look at Di Matteo winning the Champion's League and then completely failing as a permanent manager. Neither Manutd nor Chelsea were that good under these temporary managers, but they managed to churn out a great series of results. Reality inevitably sets in when a role is made permanent.

It is clear that the initial period was from a new manager bounce of giving freedom to the players, but this will never last. The manager has to eventually implement a style of play to succeed. He has been a complete failure in this regard.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In the end, this is irrelevant. The only question that really matters is: is the record below good enough over a 25 game period?

Solskjaer: Win Rate - 24% (Permanent Manager - 25 games)
Solskjaer: Goals Scored - 0.84 (Permanent Manager - 25 games)
Solskjaer: Goals Conceded - 1.32 (Permanent Manager - 25 games)

It is indefensible.

You are still wrong here to just talk about "permanent" manager results. You say including his first period is inflating? That is his results. It is not something someone made up. What you are doing (or what it looks like you are doing) is taking out stats so you can make a point. From scientific point of view that is wrong.

You made up your mind - You look at stats - You choose from the stats what benifits you - You present it.

It is like someone could say. Oh, Solskjaer has 100% win record. How? Well, I only looked at stats from this midweek. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer win percentage is 47,52%. 1,42 in goals scored. 1,07 in goals conceded. Yes, it is worst then other post-Fergie managers but why trying to make it worst than it is. According to https://www.stretfordend.co.uk/ If that is a website that can be trusted.

Then you say, something has changed. But nowhere do I see you reflecting about that. About injuries or the simple fact that Solskjaer has a squad that is worst than any other of post-Fergie managers. It's just "permanent manager fact" while ignoring and thinking everything else is irrelevant.

 

[TrueRed79]

He just plain and simple has this group of players under performing and playing god awful football to watch. We all know they are not the best group, that has been discussed to death. After 9 months i have seen enough of his tactics to know that he is out of his depth, by a long way. Even the way he talks about what he wants from his team is stuck in the past. The whole fast, get it down the wing and cross is so 1990's. He talks about Utd DNA a lot, really? Do you see any other managers talking about nonsensical topics like that? No, and for good reason. It's ok to talk about developing a proper culture but beyond that you just focus on signing the right players and implementing proper defensive/attacking structures that any modern day manager would do. It just seems to me that Ole is a romantic and has his heart in the right place but that is seriously misguided and will ultimately cost him his job in the not too distant future. I would genuinely like him to turn it around but his football and interviews are really starting to grain on me at this point.

 

[Kush]

You are still wrong here to just talk about "permanent" manager results. You say including his first period is inflating? That is his results. It is not something someone made up. What you are doing (or what it looks like you are doing) is taking out stats so you can make a point. From scientific point of view that is wrong.

You made up your mind - You look at stats - You choose from the stats what benifits you - You present it.

It is like someone could say. Oh, Solskjaer has 100% win record. How? Well, I only looked at stats from this midweek. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer win percentage is 47,52%. 1,42 in goals scored. 1,07 in goals conceded. Yes, it is worst then other post-Fergie managers but why trying to make it worst than it is. According to https://www.stretfordend.co.uk/ If that is a website that can be trusted.

Then you say, something has changed. But nowhere do I see you reflecting about that. About injuries or the simple fact that Solskjaer has a squad that is worst than any other of post-Fergie managers. It's just "permanent manager fact" while ignoring and thinking everything else is irrelevant.

I still don't understand the fascination with asking for stats over his full tenure. This is a results business and therefore, if a manager goes on a downward spiral for a sustained period of time, they get the boot. Regardless, of what their overall percentage actually is. This is applicable for every club, no matter where they are in the table.

I mean, if you look at Mourinho's overall tenure his win percentage was just shy of Fergies. But, in his own words, he was rightfully sacked because the results over several weeks were not up to the mark. I highly doubt you were fighting in Joses' corner asking him to be given more time because of his amazing win percentage 'overall'. It becomes irrelevant in scheme of things at present. And if were to be completely honest with Ole, with the run he put us at the end of last season, and at the start of this season, he is lucky to still be in this job. Previous 3 before him got sacked for less.

 

[momo83]

He's a Jose level shit talker, but you won't hear a word about it..

Jose actually boasted about what he did. And made observational points. Ole really is that guy who just talks about what he’s going to do and after 10 months we’ve seen no sign that he is actually capable of doing it.

Also it’s amazing how when he first arrived. “champions league? That’s the kind of club we are” “attacking modern football, that’s what I’m going to play” now its “gimme 3 years without judgment”

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Jose actually boasted about what he did. And made observational points. Ole really is that guy who just talks about what he’s going to do and after 10 months we’ve seen no sign that he is actually capable of doing it.

Also it’s amazing how when he first arrived. “champions league? That’s the kind of club we are” “attacking modern football, that’s what I’m going to play” now its “gimme 3 years without judgment”

People say Woodward broke him.

 

[Random Task]

People say Woodward broke him.

What was his excuse at Chelsea, Juve and Real where he had equally poisionous meltdowns?

 

[SirAF]

What was his excuse at Chelsea, Juve and Real where he had equally poisionous meltdowns?

?

 

[vangagal]

What was his excuse at Chelsea, Juve and Real where he had equally poisionous meltdowns?

So poisonous that even you forget he never managed Juve for that matter.

 

[Mainoldo]

What was his excuse at Chelsea, Juve and Real where he had equally poisionous meltdowns?

Inter* and that was his only success story.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Jose actually boasted about what he did. And made observational points. Ole really is that guy who just talks about what he’s going to do and after 10 months we’ve seen no sign that he is actually capable of doing it.

Also it’s amazing how when he first arrived. “champions league? That’s the kind of club we are” “attacking modern football, that’s what I’m going to play” now its “gimme 3 years without judgment”

He spoke about getting ride of deadwood - halfway there
He spoke about getting players with the right mentality - his three signings have shown that so far

He spoke, even during the early spell, about this being a long term issue. You cannot simply undo the damage of 6yrs of mismanagement in one summer, although I do agree that we should have done much more.

 

[Random Task]

I meant Inter, sorry.

The point stands regardless, he has had meltdowns at a multitude of football clubs during his career.

 

[vangagal]

Inter* and that was his only success story.

His Porto was more success i think. Won EL and CL in succesive years.

 

[Random Task]

Inter* and that was his only success story.

Just frustrates me that anyone from our fanbase can see Jose in a positive light. He is largely at fault for the clubs current predicament due to his awful transfers and poisonous man-management.

 

[SirAF]

Inter* and that was his only success story.

Come on, it’s okay not to like him but this is just wrong.

 

[Untd55]

What was his excuse at Chelsea, Inter and Real where he had equally poisionous meltdowns?

Meltdown at Inter? When? He won the triple in his last season before going to Real Madrid. I would have loved him to have that kind of meltdown here.

Anyway, the talk about Mourinho is a way of deflecting attention away from the fact that Solskjaer is awful.

 

[Skills]

I meant Inter, sorry.

The point stands regardless, he has had meltdowns at a multitude of football clubs during his career.

His recent career is more accurate (last 6-7 years). Which is why, nobody is going anywhere near him.

 

[Majima]

Just frustrates me that anyone from our fanbase can see Jose in a positive light. He is largely at fault for the clubs current predicament due to his awful transfers and poisonous man-management.

Sure, whatever helps you sleep at night i guess...

Jose in meltdown mode is still better than Ole with the players on his side. What does that tell you about Ole then?

It frustrates me that anyone can see Ole's time here in a positive light. The performances speak for themselves and if you're blind to those, the stats don't lie too.

But it's all part of Ole's grand plan eh? Escape relegation... everyone queuing up to join us in the summer... title challenge in a few years?

If there was more objectivity around the club and less blind sentimentality, just maybe we might get somewhere in the future.

 

[el3mel]

He spoke about getting ride of deadwood - halfway there
He spoke about getting players with the right mentality - his three signings have shown that so far

He spoke, even during the early spell, about this being a long term issue. You cannot simply undo the damage of 6yrs of mismanagement in one summer, although I do agree that we should have done much more.

Which deadwood did we get rid of ? Sanchez and Darmian, the latter was only playing about 6 games a season. Lukaku, Smalling, Fellaini and Herrera were all helpful squad options as starting or from the bench who helped us on multiple occasions.

Meanwhile the actual deadwood that people wanted to get rid of as Jones, Young, Mata, Matic, Lingard etc are all staying, some of them got new shiny contracts.

May this weird deadwood argument stop. The only thing we did last summer was selling several useful players without replacing them, while keeping the majority of trash players around, and still not getting players to replace most of them once and for all in lineup.

 

[Judas]

People want to call us Brexit FC but it's actually more like Deadwood FC.

 

[elnorte]

People want to call us Brexit FC but it's actually more like Deadwood FC.

I wouldn't mind Al Swearengen in the team to be honest - he'd make Roy Keane look like a pussy cat.

 

[Garethw]

Which deadwood did we get rid of ? Sanchez and Darmian, the latter was only playing about 6 games a season. Lukaku, Smalling, Fellaini and Herrera were all helpful squad options as starting or from the bench who helped us on multiple occasions.

Meanwhile the actual deadwood that people wanted to get rid of as Jones, Young, Mata, Matic, Lingard etc are all staying, some of them got new shiny contracts.

May this weird deadwood argument stop. The only thing we did last summer was selling several useful players without replacing them, while keeping the majority of trash players around, and still not getting players to replace most of them once and for all in lineup.

100%.

The other weird one is when we are told that our summer transfers are all because of Ole.

Despite the fact that Maguire and Wan Bissaka Were both scouted under Mourinho and Woodward has come out and said that the club had been monitoring James for three years!

 

[Majima]

Which deadwood did we get rid of ? Sanchez and Darmian, the latter was only playing about 6 games a season. Lukaku, Smalling, Fellaini and Herrera were all helpful squad options as starting or from the bench who helped us on multiple occasions.

Meanwhile the actual deadwood that people wanted to get rid of as Jones, Young, Mata, Matic, Lingard etc are all staying, some of them got new shiny contracts.

May this weird deadwood argument stop. The only thing we did last summer was selling several useful players without replacing them, while keeping the majority of trash players around, and still not getting players to replace most of them once and for all in lineup.

Exactly.

Everyone cries about we can't expect the inexperienced kids to perform. Well, who's idea was it to sell our experienced players and rely on those kids? Ole's.

Who are the deadwood at this club? Young, Mata, Jones, Lingard, Matic. Suprise, surprise look who stayed & who got awarded new contracts? We were busy tying those down, but all too happy to see Herrera's contract run down in the meantime? He admitted he left because he felt disrespected by this. I mean come on. The people running this clown fiesta behind the scenes are the very same people, we're now supposed to hail as having some majestic grand rebuild for the club? Don't make me laugh.

 

[Jericholyte2]

Which deadwood did we get rid of ? Sanchez and Darmian, the latter was only playing about 6 games a season. Lukaku, Smalling, Fellaini and Herrera were all helpful squad options as starting or from the bench who helped us on multiple occasions.

Meanwhile the actual deadwood that people wanted to get rid of as Jones, Young, Mata, Matic, Lingard etc are all staying, some of them got new shiny contracts.

May this weird deadwood argument stop. The only thing we did last summer was selling several useful players without replacing them, while keeping the majority of trash players around, and still not getting players to replace most of them once and for all in lineup.

Nobody cried a tear when Fellaini left, as soon as we all heard Herrera's demands we understood why he left. When people mentioned deadwood during the summer every list had Sanchez and one of Smalling/Jones/Rojo depending on your preference. With Lukaku it was clear Ole didn’t want him and Rom didn’t want to be a back-up so nothing you could do about that.

Likewise, the rest of the deadwood - that’s why I said halfway there. Can’t get rid of all of them in one go and we know Young and Matic will be gone in the summer.

 

[Mainoldo]

Come on, it’s okay not to like him but this is just wrong.

You know what I mean. Obviously he’s a successful manager or he wouldn’t get all these high profile jobs. But he kamikazes all his top jobs with the same childish tactics. He hasn’t recovered from Madrid and based on what he delivered for us in the end... he never will. I hope he gets the Spurs job would be a good soap opera.

 

[Judas]

Nobody cried a tear when Fellaini left, as soon as we all heard Herrera's demands we understood why he left. When people mentioned deadwood during the summer every list had Sanchez and one of Smalling/Jones/Rojo depending on your preference. With Lukaku it was clear Ole didn’t want him and Rom didn’t want to be a back-up so nothing you could do about that.

Likewise, the rest of the deadwood - that’s why I said halfway there. Can’t get rid of all of them in one go and we know Young and Matic will be gone in the summer.

Do we? Do we really?

 

[el3mel]

Nobody cried a tear when Fellaini left, as soon as we all heard Herrera's demands we understood why he left. When people mentioned deadwood during the summer every list had Sanchez and one of Smalling/Jones/Rojo depending on your preference. With Lukaku it was clear Ole didn’t want him and Rom didn’t want to be a back-up so nothing you could do about that.

Likewise, the rest of the deadwood - that’s why I said halfway there. Can’t get rid of all of them in one go and we know Young and Matic will be gone in the summer.

Lukaku, Smalling, Fellaini and Herrera weren't deadwood unless you don't know what deadwood actually mean to begin with, and we're currently paying the price for letting them go.

 

[Random Task]

Which deadwood did we get rid of ? Sanchez and Darmian, the latter was only playing about 6 games a season. Lukaku, Smalling, Fellaini and Herrera were all helpful squad options as starting or from the bench who helped us on multiple occasions.

Meanwhile the actual deadwood that people wanted to get rid of as Jones, Young, Mata, Matic, Lingard etc are all staying, some of them got new shiny contracts.

May this weird deadwood argument stop. The only thing we did last summer was selling several useful players without replacing them, while keeping the majority of trash players around, and still not getting players to replace most of them once and for all in lineup.

Herrera's decision to leave at the end of last season severely limited our midfield options for the following season, forcing Ole to keep the likes of Matic, Mata and Lingard. It was a decision bourne from necessity rather than anything else.

 

[Mainoldo]

Nobody cried a tear when Fellaini left, as soon as we all heard Herrera's demands we understood why he left. When people mentioned deadwood during the summer every list had Sanchez and one of Smalling/Jones/Rojo depending on your preference. With Lukaku it was clear Ole didn’t want him and Rom didn’t want to be a back-up so nothing you could do about that.

Likewise, the rest of the deadwood - that’s why I said halfway there. Can’t get rid of all of them in one go and we know Young and Matic will be gone in the summer.

No one cried because no one expected this dumbwit not to replace them.

 

[momo83]

He spoke about getting ride of deadwood - halfway there
He spoke about getting players with the right mentality - his three signings have shown that so far

He spoke, even during the early spell, about this being a long term issue. You cannot simply undo the damage of 6yrs of mismanagement in one summer, although I do agree that we should have done much more.

Deadwood vs players who don’t fit our style... He’s actually kept most of the deadwood. Got rid of effective players who don’t fit his style, without actually developing a style.

It doesn’t take 3 years , 6 transfer windows and taking the biggest team in world to the relegation zone to improve things. If he can’t stabilise and maintain, how can he improve.

 

[Mainoldo]

Herrera's decision to leave at the end of last season severely limited our midfield options for the following season, forcing Ole to keep the likes of Matic, Mata and Lingard. It was a decision bourne from necessity rather than anything else.

He could have just signed a midfielder instead of Maguire. Mata career died 12 months ago.