UpWithRivers
Full Member
- Joined
- Dec 30, 2013
- Messages
- 3,662
Ok lets get this clear. I’m not a Woodward lover. I’m a Man United lover. I think he deserves a sht load of blame. But the point of this thread is to understand or at least try to understand the reality of the situation. I keep seeing everyone jump on the bandwagon of its all Woodward’s fault. The managers and everyone else seems to get away with the blame. So for once and for all lets see what is the truth.
Blame:
Managers – Moyes was a recommendation of Sir Alex and a sht load of other people. Van Gal, Mourinho and Ole as well. Lots of very top professional people called for these signings. A load of the fans called for these signings. How they are recruited? Does Woodward sit there and just decide on his own over a cuppa in the morning? Or does the recruitment of a manger happen via a consensus of the top people at the club? I would think the latter. All were seen as top managers. Yes even Moyes. All were seen as not right for the job after they were hired and again loads of people at the club and outside called for them to be sacked. Yes in hindsight they were all the wrong managers. But does Woodward take all the blame? Or did he make the right decision at the time with the backing and recommendation of everyone around him?
Signings –
Transfer budget - We have spent a sht load of money. He is not exactly penny pinching. And even if he was. Is this down to Woodward? Again. Does he sit there over a cuppa and decide oh fk this Im only spending 50 mill this window. Or is he given a budget by the owners and the finance people? I would think the latter.
Bad signings – again. Who decides this. Is it Woodward? Or is he given directions by the scouting department and the management team? Were those signings Woodward signings or Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho/Ole signings? Then you have to ask. Why did they all fail? Is it not the responsibility of the manager and coaching team to improve and make players the best they can be? Not one signing has gone on to be a great player for us. Well De Gea- that’s 1. But even he is acting a bit dodgy these days. Who’s fault is this if not the manager and coaching team?
Not getting transfer targets – Why does every believe everything the papers write about our transfer negotiations? Does anyone actually believe the papers know what’s going on the negotiations? This baffles me the most. Oh Woodward didn’t want to spend 5 extra mill for Maguire and now he’s paying 10 mill extra. Oh the Fernandes deal has flopped because he wont spend an extra 4 mill. This is all bullsht paper talk. No one knows. Maybe they asked 100 for Maguire originally? Maybe they are asking 90 mill for Fernandes? Who knows? Why does everyone believe this? The other thing is every single club negotiates and every single club loses out on players because they wont spend that amount on a player. Look at City who lost out to us loads of times – Fred, Sanchez etc. Look at the Scousers. They refuse to pay ridiculous fees.
The point is even if we sack Woodward tomorrow our problems will not go away. There is a failure right through the core of our club. The main problem is lack of a DOF. But it goes deeper than that. And now is the second part of my sacrilege. Its because of our history. There I said it. We are stuck in the past. All the way through the club we are trying to fit square pegs in round holes. We are trying to recreate our history. This is impossible. Even with a DOF it seems we are trying to find a DOF that fits in with Man Utd and our values and our history. We are finding ex players for managerial roles, coaching and even the DOF. It started with Moyes and even though you can say the likes of Mourinho was not a typical man United manager he was still briefed and expected to play the ‘Man United’ way. He was never truly backed according to his philosophy. So why hire him?
We recruit, live and breath based on our old values or old philosophies our history. With every decision its embedded in our thinking. It cannot work. We need to start again at square one. Yes we cant just throw away our history. Im not saying that. Im saying put it aside for the moment. We need to go out and get the best DOF there is. Not based on if they fit our values or our ethos but based on their philosophy and their values and ideas. Then we work to change our way of running a club to fit that philosophy. Its hard I know. But until that happens we will never change. Klopp is a prime example. He came in and systematically changed the way Liverpool have been run. The way the club thinks. Liverpool did the same as we are doing now. They recruited past legends and managers that would keep in line with their history and after 10 plus years stumbled upon a coach that brought his own ideas and philosophy and changed the way the club is run. Sir Alex did this. Yes he carried on the youth from the busby babes but it would be ridiculous to not see how he changed the club fundamentally at all levels. All great managers do this. Guardiola did this but he wasn’t hampered by Cities past. Now you can say were would we get a coach like that. I say we don’t. We get a DOF like that. Times have changed and this is the way to go. The DOF can then recruit managers on the same principles. The problem is not that we change coaches its that we get coaches with different styles who in turn need to recruit a totally different set of players. If we had Van Gal then Ole and then Poch for example. It wouldn’t matter as much as Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho then Ole. There is no consistency. In this scenario Ole can still be sacked and we can try Poch or whoever and if they fail then someone with a similar style. Then the set of players required by each manager would already be there with one or two changes.
Ok sorry for the long post. Summary – Woodward is an idiot but so are the rest of them.
Blame:
Managers – Moyes was a recommendation of Sir Alex and a sht load of other people. Van Gal, Mourinho and Ole as well. Lots of very top professional people called for these signings. A load of the fans called for these signings. How they are recruited? Does Woodward sit there and just decide on his own over a cuppa in the morning? Or does the recruitment of a manger happen via a consensus of the top people at the club? I would think the latter. All were seen as top managers. Yes even Moyes. All were seen as not right for the job after they were hired and again loads of people at the club and outside called for them to be sacked. Yes in hindsight they were all the wrong managers. But does Woodward take all the blame? Or did he make the right decision at the time with the backing and recommendation of everyone around him?
Signings –
Transfer budget - We have spent a sht load of money. He is not exactly penny pinching. And even if he was. Is this down to Woodward? Again. Does he sit there over a cuppa and decide oh fk this Im only spending 50 mill this window. Or is he given a budget by the owners and the finance people? I would think the latter.
Bad signings – again. Who decides this. Is it Woodward? Or is he given directions by the scouting department and the management team? Were those signings Woodward signings or Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho/Ole signings? Then you have to ask. Why did they all fail? Is it not the responsibility of the manager and coaching team to improve and make players the best they can be? Not one signing has gone on to be a great player for us. Well De Gea- that’s 1. But even he is acting a bit dodgy these days. Who’s fault is this if not the manager and coaching team?
Not getting transfer targets – Why does every believe everything the papers write about our transfer negotiations? Does anyone actually believe the papers know what’s going on the negotiations? This baffles me the most. Oh Woodward didn’t want to spend 5 extra mill for Maguire and now he’s paying 10 mill extra. Oh the Fernandes deal has flopped because he wont spend an extra 4 mill. This is all bullsht paper talk. No one knows. Maybe they asked 100 for Maguire originally? Maybe they are asking 90 mill for Fernandes? Who knows? Why does everyone believe this? The other thing is every single club negotiates and every single club loses out on players because they wont spend that amount on a player. Look at City who lost out to us loads of times – Fred, Sanchez etc. Look at the Scousers. They refuse to pay ridiculous fees.
The point is even if we sack Woodward tomorrow our problems will not go away. There is a failure right through the core of our club. The main problem is lack of a DOF. But it goes deeper than that. And now is the second part of my sacrilege. Its because of our history. There I said it. We are stuck in the past. All the way through the club we are trying to fit square pegs in round holes. We are trying to recreate our history. This is impossible. Even with a DOF it seems we are trying to find a DOF that fits in with Man Utd and our values and our history. We are finding ex players for managerial roles, coaching and even the DOF. It started with Moyes and even though you can say the likes of Mourinho was not a typical man United manager he was still briefed and expected to play the ‘Man United’ way. He was never truly backed according to his philosophy. So why hire him?
We recruit, live and breath based on our old values or old philosophies our history. With every decision its embedded in our thinking. It cannot work. We need to start again at square one. Yes we cant just throw away our history. Im not saying that. Im saying put it aside for the moment. We need to go out and get the best DOF there is. Not based on if they fit our values or our ethos but based on their philosophy and their values and ideas. Then we work to change our way of running a club to fit that philosophy. Its hard I know. But until that happens we will never change. Klopp is a prime example. He came in and systematically changed the way Liverpool have been run. The way the club thinks. Liverpool did the same as we are doing now. They recruited past legends and managers that would keep in line with their history and after 10 plus years stumbled upon a coach that brought his own ideas and philosophy and changed the way the club is run. Sir Alex did this. Yes he carried on the youth from the busby babes but it would be ridiculous to not see how he changed the club fundamentally at all levels. All great managers do this. Guardiola did this but he wasn’t hampered by Cities past. Now you can say were would we get a coach like that. I say we don’t. We get a DOF like that. Times have changed and this is the way to go. The DOF can then recruit managers on the same principles. The problem is not that we change coaches its that we get coaches with different styles who in turn need to recruit a totally different set of players. If we had Van Gal then Ole and then Poch for example. It wouldn’t matter as much as Moyes/Van Gal/Mourinho then Ole. There is no consistency. In this scenario Ole can still be sacked and we can try Poch or whoever and if they fail then someone with a similar style. Then the set of players required by each manager would already be there with one or two changes.
Ok sorry for the long post. Summary – Woodward is an idiot but so are the rest of them.