Johnny Giles greatest United XI.

Champagne Football

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And Robson was better than Keane. Better on the ball and more goals.
Giles was a central midfielder himself. I'd trust his judgement in this debate to choose Keane over Robson.

Robson was awesome but I'd choose Keane over him.

Just yesterday Gary Neville said 'Roy Keane is the most inspirational football player that I’ve ever seen.'

Only today Johnny Evans said about Keane 'I think he had abilities that were just way beyond everyone'
 
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IRELANDUNITED

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I heard Johnny Giles on Newstalk the other night picking his greatest United XI and thought it deserved a thread.Giles was a great player, in my opinion 2nd only to Roy Keane as the best Irish (Republic) player ever.I have often listened to him talk about football down the years and he knows his stuff.Matt Busby often said his biggest mistake was letting Giles go to Leeds.Anyway heres the team. 4 - 3 - 3.

Schmeichel

Irwin Stam Vidic Tony Dunne.

Keane Charlton Scholes

Ronaldo Law Best.

Not too shabby.

From what I've heard and read Duncan Edwards was one of our greatest ever players so he'd definitely get in there ahead of Stam, maybe Rio for Vidic as well. It'd be interesting to see a subs bench too.
 

IRELANDUNITED

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Here's mine:

Schmeichel

Neville McGrath Edwards Evra

Keane Charlton Robsen

Ronaldo Rooney Best

Subs: Van Der Sar, Irwin, Rio, Scholes, Giggs , Law

that is some team if I do say so myself
 

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I really like Giles as a pundit. No nonsense, super honest and doesn't get taken in by media hysteria.

Focuses on a player's quality rather than hype and has his own strong opinions on how football should be played.

Very good team. It's hard to argue with a single player. He would have loved Scholes as a player as he had a similar style to Giles himself, although not as dirty.
True. Giles played in an era where you got your retaliation in first! He could look after himself.
 

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From what I've heard and read Duncan Edwards was one of our greatest ever players so he'd definitely get in there ahead of Stam, maybe Rio for Vidic as well. It'd be interesting to see a subs bench too.
I've no doubt that Duncan was a phenomenal footballer. I often heard it said that you would have never heard of Bobby Moore only for Munich.
However I never saw him play in the flesh. Giles did.
 

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Fair enough. I've just seen video footage of Best and he was obviously sensational. My old man had pints with him a few times.
Prime Giggs was a pretty scary bloke to play against though. There was a 2 or 3 year period where he was unstoppable.
Prime Giggs was a great player, no doubt - never forget that FA Cup goal against Arsenal, which was on a par with any of Best's. It's no direspect to place him 2nd to Best.
 
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montpelier

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I've reconsidered the Keane vs Robson question.

At DM/DLP I can see how Keane maybe edges it. At CM Robson would be my choice.

I'd then go on to argue that DM/DLP is an easier role to play. If you're basically good enough to do it DM/DLP can be made to look an absolute doddle. 20 yards further forward is tougher, only 1/2 or less of the action is laid out in front of you.

That's trying to describe that they're different positions rather than doing RK down. And then I need to accept that Robson would score more because he was getting forward far more.
 

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I had the great pleasure of watching Giles play because a good friend was a big Leeds United fan.

He was a class above some brilliant players in that Leeds team. Fantastic touch and balance.

As mentioned by others, it is very much down to personal opinion. But he has certainly picked a brilliant team there.
Yeah. Can't really find fault with any of it.
 

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To me the midfield should be Keane, Robson and Charlton. As for Giggs, he was a top class player but never in the class of Bestie.
 

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An awesome XI and it really is an impossible job to pick an XI without omitting some top class players. Nobody has mentioned Cantona so far in this thread!
 
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There's always going to be a dilemma:
1. You have to choose two from Keane, Robson and Scholes (although the more I watch of him, the more I'm thinking that Robson should be the first name on the list)
2. You have to choose two from Rio, Vidić, Stam & McGrath (maybe the latter wouldn't be a popular choice, but individually he was probably just as good as the rest — but, like with Robson, the team he was playing in didn't really match his abilities)

It's the "downside" of having a team that's been so incredibly successful over the years.

Regarding Edwards — aside from the ones who saw him live, I don't really like when people put him in. There's only one full game with him available (while you can get a very complete picture of the likes of Charlton, Best, Law etc.), and while it's pretty clear that he was already performing at the level of peak Roy Keane or Bryan Robson (probably closer to the latter in terms of his skillset), it's still more of a "what if" story. Although he was named 3rd best player in Europe (behind Alfredo Di Stefano and Billy Wright) at the mere age of 21... no doubt that he would've been a shoo-in in United's All-Time XI, and a very likely candidate for our best ever player.

As an outside thought, when you look at the 1957 Ballon d'Or list, it makes you wonder, how that 1958 World Cup could've gone. For those who don't remember, it was the breakthrough moment for a certain Pelé.

3. Duncan Edwards. 21 years old, died in Munich
7. Eduard Streltsov. 20 years old, imprisoned.
8. Tommy Taylor. 25 years old, died in Munich.

And all of them were in the same group as Brazil!
I think Edwards and Taylor would have swung that WC... my Dad said both were brilliant but Taylor was his favourite.

Also worth remembering Edwards would have only been 29 for WC 66. Captain?
I disagree. Robson was a brilliant player and he took us back to the top, but Keane made us untouchable. He had a wider variety to his game and was a better leader.

Plus there is clearly balance in that team. Robson would be replacing Charlton, and that's never happening.
Watched them both hundreds of times (went to watch West Brom when Robson was still there... good then too. As someone else said, there's an argument he played in a better all-round team than some United sides of the 80s though a midfield of Robson, Muhren, Wilkins and Moses beats anything West Brom ever had).

Robson played with some players that wouldn't get in United's top.500 yet still dragged them to unthinkable performances - McGrath is the exception. Keane (great player mind) played with some of the best players we've had in the last 50 years. Schmeicel, Irwin, Rio, Stam, Vidic, Scholes, Ronaldo, Kanchelskis, Ruud, Beckham, etc etc. Keane was an important player too but they'd have won loads with and without Keane (and did).... Ferguson was the key.

Robson had more variety than Keane, both great engines, fearless, started play, ok passing (neither anything special) but Robson definitely a better header for a start and a better striker of the ball. Robson could time a run and finish a cross like Keane could (he scored one like Keane's Juve header v West Brom)... Keane couldn't run 20-30 yards and bury one from outside the box

As for leadership, both brilliant and it depends on style preference. Do you want the one that encouraged or the one that demanded.

The one thing I would say is that in a 433 and assuming you pick Scholes and Charlton, picking Robson to just sit is a waste. (Charlton isn't in my AT XI ... partly as only saw him a couple of times and partly as it's 442).

Giles team is decent.
 

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Rio is the obvious miss, but to be fair to Giles he makes a solid case for Vidic and Stam on the show.
I didn't catch the show but my thinking is that if you want a hard nosed defender like Vidic then it's either Stam or RIo to partner him and Stam is probably just a little better than Rio based on his combativeness.
 

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It's harsh on Cantona to miss out because the truth is that tactically Fergie was behind the rest of Europe in the early days, even though man for man we were easily good enough to win a CL from 92 onwards. If Eric had won a CL, he might just pip Law upfront. Harsh on Scholes too but I'd go with the dynamic warrior abilities of Keane and Robson, and with Ronaldo, Law and Best already in the team, Scholes goals would not be missed as much. I'd go with this.

Schmeichel

Irwin Rio Stam Evra

Keane Charlton Robson

Ronaldo Law Best​
 

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I've no doubt that Duncan was a phenomenal footballer. I often heard it said that you would have never heard of Bobby Moore only for Munich.
However I never saw him play in the flesh. Giles did.
Fair enough but if Edwards was as good as people say I think he's worthy of a place in our greatest 11. Such an absolute tragedy that his life was robbed from him. What are your thoughts on Paul McGrath? I was born in 89 so I never got to properly see him play but from what my father has said and from what I've heard about him he was one unbelievable footballer.
 

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With Robbo one minute he is making a last ditch challenge in our own box and then the next minute he is an the other end scoring. Not saying Keane is a bad player and to me a midfield of Keane Robbo and Sir Bobby is the best.
I know that Law won the European footballer of the year but is he as good as RVN or RVP?
 

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Here's mine:

Schmeichel

Neville McGrath Edwards Evra

Keane Charlton Robsen

Ronaldo Rooney Best

Subs: Van Der Sar, Irwin, Rio, Scholes, Giggs , Law

that is some team if I do say so myself

I'm making 2 changes, Irwin in for Neville and Giggs in for Rooney. Also add Beckham to the bench
 

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Probably a tiny bit of Irish bias in that team. I think Evra would get the nod over Dunne.

Then no complaints about Best in the team, but it's a very close call up against Giggs.
Wow wow wow, I’m a MASSIVE Giggsy fan, born in Cardiff, missus is second cousins with Ryan (same surname), literally idolised him growing up... but even I wouldn’t compare Giggsy to the GOAT that is George Best.

Giggsy was incredible and second to none for longevity but he never came close to Best’s peak level. Very few have.
 

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And Robson was better than Keane. Better on the ball and more goals.
Keane was the heartbeat of a team that won numerous leagues, FA Cups and a Champions League. Robson was the heartbeat of a team that one a FA Cup. Keane plays all day long.
 

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Paul McGrath is one of my favourite ever players but personally I wouldn't put him in the team because he wasn't there long enough to merit it over other players who ended up being so successful. I think if he had of stayed a bit longer he was going to be a nailed on legend.
 

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Fair enough. I've just seen video footage of Best and he was obviously sensational. My old man had pints with him a few times.
Prime Giggs was a pretty scary bloke to play against though. There was a 2 or 3 year period where he was unstoppable.
Best had a much higher peak, Giggs longevity for his career was absurd though
 

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Fair enough but if Edwards was as good as people say I think he's worthy of a place in our greatest 11. Such an absolute tragedy that his life was robbed from him. What are your thoughts on Paul McGrath? I was born in 89 so I never got to properly see him play but from what my father has said and from what I've heard about him he was one unbelievable footballer.
Paul was a phenomenal player. I think most people accept that. Off field issues stopped him from becoming the United legend he should have become but at his best as good as any at centre back.
 

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Paul was a phenomenal player. I think most people accept that. Off field issues stopped him from becoming the United legend he should have become but at his best as good as any at centre back.
McGrath was voted the best player in the league in 92 while playing for Villa. Since then only 2 other defenders have won that award, John Terry and Virgil Van Dijk.
 

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Watched them both hundreds of times (went to watch West Brom when Robson was still there... good then too. As someone else said, there's an argument he played in a better all-round team than some United sides of the 80s though a midfield of Robson, Muhren, Wilkins and Moses beats anything West Brom ever had).

Robson played with some players that wouldn't get in United's top.500 yet still dragged them to unthinkable performances - McGrath is the exception. Keane (great player mind) played with some of the best players we've had in the last 50 years. Schmeicel, Irwin, Rio, Stam, Vidic, Scholes, Ronaldo, Kanchelskis, Ruud, Beckham, etc etc. Keane was an important player too but they'd have won loads with and without Keane (and did).... Ferguson was the key.

Robson had more variety than Keane, both great engines, fearless, started play, ok passing (neither anything special) but Robson definitely a better header for a start and a better striker of the ball. Robson could time a run and finish a cross like Keane could (he scored one like Keane's Juve header v West Brom)... Keane couldn't run 20-30 yards and bury one from outside the box

As for leadership, both brilliant and it depends on style preference. Do you want the one that encouraged or the one that demanded.

The one thing I would say is that in a 433 and assuming you pick Scholes and Charlton, picking Robson to just sit is a waste. (Charlton isn't in my AT XI ... partly as only saw him a couple of times and partly as it's 442).
I saw them both play too and I still think Keane is better, but they don't really compete for the same position. As you said above in different words, Robson was great at everything required to go forward. And in a team that requires balance, at the going forward bit Robson will never match Charlton. Keane was a better all rounder and who else do you pick for that job if not him?

I feel about Robson the way Liverpool fans do about Gerrard. Both great players who dragged their teams through games at times and could do brilliant things, but a balanced team needs a player who can control a game more than they need one who can do that.
 

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With Robbo one minute he is making a last ditch challenge in our own box and then the next minute he is an the other end scoring. Not saying Keane is a bad player and to me a midfield of Keane Robbo and Sir Bobby is the best.
I know that Law won the European footballer of the year but is he as good as RVN or RVP?
Law played in a different era to RVP or RVN, so it is difficult to compare directly. The pace of the game, the boot/ball technology, fitness levels, refereeing standards etc. were different. DL was a clinical finisher at close range, like Ruud, athough with less physicality.

Here are some bare stats, for United games only - all outstanding strikers, in their day. Anyone who averages a goal per less than two games, in a top league, is outstanding, IMO. Any of these guys would grace our current first team.

PlayerAppearancesGoalsGames/goal
Denis Law3091711.81
RVN150951.58
RVP86481.79
 
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It's harsh on Cantona to miss out because the truth is that tactically Fergie was behind the rest of Europe in the early days, even though man for man we were easily good enough to win a CL from 92 onwards. If Eric had won a CL, he might just pip Law upfront. Harsh on Scholes too but I'd go with the dynamic warrior abilities of Keane and Robson, and with Ronaldo, Law and Best already in the team, Scholes goals would not be missed as much. I'd go with this.

Schmeichel

Irwin Rio Stam Evra

Keane Charlton Robson

Ronaldo Law Best​

Nah, Utd were not good enough defensively at that level to win the CL. Bruce made Maguire look fast at that point while Pallister was very good but a few notches below the top CB's around Europe. Add to that neither of Keane or Ince having the discipline or nous at that stage to cover adequately for them in defensive midfield. They were a box to box force but against teams who kept the ball well the team defensive shape crumbled. Very good against long ball tactics in the PL of the time but just not developed enough to win the trophy.

Still perhaps my favourite Utd team to watch mind.
 

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Law played in a different era to RVP or RVN, so it is difficult to compare directly. The pace of the game, the boot/ball technology, fitness levels, refereeing standards etc. were different. DL was a clinical finisher at close range, like Ruud, athough with less physicality.

Here are some bare stats, for United games only - all outstanding strikers, in their day. Anyone who averages a goal per less than two games, in a top league, is outstanding, IMO. Any of these guys would grace our current first team.

PlayerAppearancesGoalsGames/goal
Denis Law3091711.81
RVN150951.58
RVP86481.79
Law was a supreme poacher and finisher.
He was a spiky competitor too. In his era defenders could literally kick forwards off the park if they were allowed to by the forward. You had to be able to protect yourself. Denis could.
Pitches were often Cabbage patches too compared to the bowling greens we have nowadays. I accept RVN & RVP we're outstanding strikers but I rate Denis above them.
 

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Nah, Utd were not good enough defensively at that level to win the CL. Bruce made Maguire look fast at that point while Pallister was very good but a few notches below the top CB's around Europe. Add to that neither of Keane or Ince having the discipline or nous at that stage to cover adequately for them in defensive midfield. They were a box to box force but against teams who kept the ball well the team defensive shape crumbled. Very good against long ball tactics in the PL of the time but just not developed enough to win the trophy.

Still perhaps my favourite Utd team to watch mind.
The main problem the 93/94 team had in Europe was the foreigner rule. We literally could not field our strongest team because of it. We may not have won the CL but we certainly would have done much better with our first team.
 

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Law was a supreme poacher and finisher.
He was a spiky competitor too. In his era defenders could literally kick forwards off the park if they were allowed to by the forward. You had to be able to protect yourself. Denis could.
Pitches were often Cabbage patches too compared to the bowling greens we have nowadays. I accept RVN & RVP we're outstanding strikers but I rate Denis above them.
Not bad for a reluctant centre-forward, he preferred playing in midfield.
 

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Law was a supreme poacher and finisher.
He was a spiky competitor too. In his era defenders could literally kick forwards off the park if they were allowed to by the forward. You had to be able to protect yourself. Denis could.
Pitches were often Cabbage patches too compared to the bowling greens we have nowadays. I accept RVN & RVP we're outstanding strikers but I rate Denis above them.
Good points - when I mentioned physicality, it was a comparison between Denis at 5'9" and Ruud at 6'2". He certainly could look after himself and had to, when dealing with Ron Harris, David Webb, Peter Storey, Bobby Moncur, Norman Hunter, Johh Hurst, Tommy Smith et al.

This YouTube video showcases some of his skills, might be an idea to mute the audio which doesn't add anything IMO

Talking of forwards who could look after themselves in that era, does anyone remember Andy Lochead of Burnley, then Villa? Hard as nails.
 
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The Brown Bull

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Good points - when I mentioned physicality, it was a comparison between Denis at 5'9" and Ruud at 6'2". He certainly could look after himself and had to, when dealing with Ron Harris, David Webb, Peter Storey, Bobby Moncur, Norman Hunter, Johh Hurst, Tommy Smith et al.

This YouTube video showcases some of his skills, might be an idea to mute the audio which doesn't add anything IMO

Talking of forwards who could look after themselves in that era, does anyone remember Andy Lochead of Burnley, then Villa? Hard as nails.
Love that celebration, the iconic picture of Law after scoring, right arm raised in triumph.Glorious.
 

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I don't get threads like this, Johnny Giles has picked his XI, his prerogative, yet you have folk questioning it saying he got player a b and c wrong, are you expecting Johnny to suddenly appear on the forum to defend his choice? Just weird.
Its Johnny Giles not Joe Bloggs from the Dog and Duck.People are naturally interested in who he picked in my opinion.If you are not interested dont bother commenting.
 

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Only change i'd make to that team is Rio in for Vida. Purely because Staam and Vidic are very similar i'd rather have a Rio in that backline to balance it out. Can't comment on Dunne as i never saw him play. However that midfield and attack is perfect.
 

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I've reconsidered the Keane vs Robson question.

At DM/DLP I can see how Keane maybe edges it. At CM Robson would be my choice.

I'd then go on to argue that DM/DLP is an easier role to play. If you're basically good enough to do it DM/DLP can be made to look an absolute doddle. 20 yards further forward is tougher, only 1/2 or less of the action is laid out in front of you.

That's trying to describe that they're different positions rather than doing RK down. And then I need to accept that Robson would score more because he was getting forward far more.
That's an interesting statement given that Keane was all all action up and down midfielder in his early days at united and by his own admission started to come deeper and get more involved in the play on the advice of Robson.