Do you still believe in the tooth fairy?Good craic
Sport Witness: Man United row between Bruno Fernandes and Ole Gunnar Solskjaer dismissed as 'lies'
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I think as fans you have to take these reports with a pinch of salt but that doesn't mean they're not true. We heard the same disgruntled reports when players were disillusioned under Moyes and to a lesser extent Lvg/Jose. We'll hear stories of a meeting to clear the air and a reset soon.
Let's just hope we get a few wins under our belt with better performances and the mood improves. If our players truly don't think we're going places then i think he'll be gone by Christmas.
Let's just hope we get a few wins under our belt with better performances and the mood improves. If our players truly don't think we're going places then i think he'll be gone by Christmas.
Roy Keane was a winner. The very epitome of a winner as a football player. But as a manager he was a loser. Ole is the same. You can't strut around as a winner in a world where you have almost no credentials and where everyone is expecting you to fail. Where your own board hang you out to dry and you just smile and cover for them.
It's a sad indictment on the modern player but the experience of these serial winners from previous eras really have no bearing or relevance anymore. They're not influenced by it or interested in it.
What this transfer window has taught us is that most journalists know diddly squat about the club. The only outlet I'd take even remotely seriously at this stage is The Athletic.
No one knew about Sancho's extra year, or about what was going on behind the scenes until the window closed. No one bar The Athletic head a clue about Pellestri or Diallo. Even the likes of Romano were wrong about Stevanovic. The Maguire and Greenwood sagas were all over the place with contradictory reports, and the media has run similar anti - Ole stories with Pogba, Martial and other players before.
We did lose to Spurs 6-1, we did have The Athletic reporting of flaring tempers at half time and post game. There probably was a lot of frustration, and there probably were words said - you shouldn't read too much into it. It's not unusual after a loss like that, if it were not Manchester United, these stories wouldn't be getting so many clicks and views.
What we need is some positive results. Given how our schedule looks, unfortunately, these articles might be multiplying soon before they go away.
No one knew about Sancho's extra year, or about what was going on behind the scenes until the window closed. No one bar The Athletic head a clue about Pellestri or Diallo. Even the likes of Romano were wrong about Stevanovic. The Maguire and Greenwood sagas were all over the place with contradictory reports, and the media has run similar anti - Ole stories with Pogba, Martial and other players before.
We did lose to Spurs 6-1, we did have The Athletic reporting of flaring tempers at half time and post game. There probably was a lot of frustration, and there probably were words said - you shouldn't read too much into it. It's not unusual after a loss like that, if it were not Manchester United, these stories wouldn't be getting so many clicks and views.
What we need is some positive results. Given how our schedule looks, unfortunately, these articles might be multiplying soon before they go away.
Lots of noise coming out....this can't be good for Ole. Clock is ticking
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The Athletic didn't just say there was flare ups though. They said several players are doubting his credentials.
Well, someone had to come up with the claim first for there to be a report refuting it. Either way, it's an update on the same topic. Two threads on an unsubstantiated rumor is a bit much.
The same thing happened with Pogba, he was brought here under false pretense.
What bit was the "untrue" article referring to?
What I'm understanding is, players aren't really behind Ole because of his tactics, and that's reported by Athletic/Castles.
But the half time bust up between Bruno and Ole is a different bit, and that's been refuted.
We were under false pretenses too, thought we'd be getting a consistent player.
So Lucas Sposito's sources are wrong and Goncalo Lopes and Duncan Castles' sources are right?
Given that the pro-Mourinho sources have had it in for Ole since day one, I'm not going to put all my eggs into believing what's coming out of them. Guess we'll see on the pitch who's telling the truth.
It's not just reported by them
Who else is reporting it?
Athletic - tweet by Laurie Whitwell saying that "several squad players" doubt Ole's credentials as a top manager. He basically says they don't dislike him but they don't think he's much good.
Where? I have an Athletic subscription and I've not read any claim that Bruno has lost faith in Ole. Only that he went off about the Spurs game and our approach in it.
Laurie doesn't name Bruno but he says "several squad players" which is worse. Because you know it's most likely Bruno in that mix among many others. Full text:
In an article in The Athletic, reporter Laurie Whitwell quotes a source ‘close to the players’ as saying:
‘I must be clear, the players I speak to are never saying he’s a disaster. But they question whether he is a top, top coach.
‘They are worried how things spiral after a bad result, the momentum swings too dramatically.
‘There is a feeling the team is too dependent on players in attack doing wonderful individual things.’
There is nothing Odd in that. Castles in his reporting has always been pro Jose. I never mentioned Laurie Whitwell. Don't know why you are getting so defensive, it has nothing to do this report alone. Since December 2018, he has been mocking Ole, why do you want fans to take him seriously when he has bee biased even after after we finished 3rd or beat PSG or beat his Jose's spurs.
One source close to the players says: “I must be clear, the players I speak to are never saying he’s a disaster. But they question whether he is a top, top coach. They are worried about how things spiral after a bad result, the momentum swings too dramatically. There is a feeling the team is too dependent on players in attack doing wonderful individual things.”
They don't think he's a top, top coach. Neither is Lampard, neither is Brendan Rogers. Arteta is unproven, and Ancelotti, Jose haven't been top top coaches for awhile either.
Only Pep and Klopp stand out, and it would insane if they squad lost belief in the manager because he wasn't as good as either of them. He was literally the third best last year, and he doesn't need to be better to avoid them collectively shitting their pants and conceding six through individual mistakes. This squad lacks leaders - one of three genuine candidates from last year is still lost in Greece, the other is 23 and got an MBE and the third is frustrated and is being painted as a villain in the dressing room now for showing some passion.
Things aren't really clicking now, but it's far from the dramatic doom and gloom that the media wants us to lap up.
No one is defensive, he posted an article that's been concurred by reputable journalists, but you have actually gotten quite bitter about his report as an excuse to slate him. It's just odd.
Lots of us who only see what is happening on match day don't have faith in Ole. A player who sees what is happening every day would probably lose faith a lot more quickly.
It's up to the manager to convince the players to have faith in him. Not the other way around.
However all players should give 100% on the pitch and if Bruno gives it then I have no issues with him having no faith in the manager so long as he doesn't go public with it.
As an owner who would you get rid of? Bruno Fernandes, the player or Ole Gunnar Solskjaer the manager? At this moment in time, it's not even a close thing. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer the manager if it comes to that.
It's up to the manager to convince the players to have faith in him. Not the other way around.
However all players should give 100% on the pitch and if Bruno gives it then I have no issues with him having no faith in the manager so long as he doesn't go public with it.
As an owner who would you get rid of? Bruno Fernandes, the player or Ole Gunnar Solskjaer the manager? At this moment in time, it's not even a close thing. Ole Gunnar Solskjaer the manager if it comes to that.
Yes, I read that. As you say, Bruno isn't mentioned. So basically this is being pinned on Bruno because other journalists are claiming its Bruno, even when Lucas Sposito said yesterday it wasn't Bruno.
As far as I know Whitwell has never done anything with Fernandes or any of United's Iberian or Iberian-American contingent, so I'm not sure how much he would know about their opinions.
What's most likely to have happened: there was tension at half time, and someone heard it.
But then, it's forgotten. Those players have won together, this is what happens when they losel like that. They didn't like it.
But then, it's forgotten. Those players have won together, this is what happens when they losel like that. They didn't like it.
Again why do you want fans to trust him when he has been having mocking Ole for having this job. In fact it was him who was bitter that Jose was sacked and it was given to Ole. Nothing bitter, just stating the fact but of course your hatred for Ole will not let you believe and you will trust anything in the news. I am not disputing this news but I just don't trust Castles with regard to Ole.
Duncan Castles is just giving his podcast highlights in the tweet. The news is in the podcast itself, where he apparently says its other players too (which is consistent with Whitwell).
Can you please show me where he "mocks" Ole? I am honestly curious about where he mocked Ole because I didn't see it.
Also your bold bit is contradictory.
I'm not sure about that, once the players turn on a manager owners more often than not get rid of the manager, cheaper in the long run.
Hope there is zero truth to this and if there isn't then I hope the manager and player both confirm that to be the case.
Those quotes are rehashed from last November/December, certainly before Fernandes joined that's for sure.
And didn't we win 3 away games on the bounce after getting beat 1-3 by Crystal Palace on the opening day, that's some spiral!
I listened to the podcast. It was mainly what's been tweeted.
The quotes are from his article from 8th October I believe.
And it's not off the back of 3 games, but frustration that it's just a yo-yo under this manager over the course of the season. Which to be fair, it was.
So he doesn't say its the case with other players aside from Bruno? Or does he say it's only Bruno who thinks this.
https://play.acast.com/s/thetransferwindow/vnid://episodes/41443038?media_id=30578707
Its the opening section.
Castles doesn't refer to anyone specifically besides Bruno. In his intro he just references stuff he's reported in the past about 'senior players' not thinking Ole's up to it. However, after about two minutes in that section focusses all on Bruno. Although its not limited to a critique of Solskjaer. He claims Bruno is also angry at the club for not pushing on in the transfer window and feels he's been lied to about United's desire to win.
Again, basically what he tweeted.
I don't have time to reshare all the tweets and news that he puts since December 2018 but it has been a general theme from him that he has been pro jose and anti Ole since day one. And when I said I am not disputing the news, I meant I won't deny this news till a reputable journalist apart from Castles says the same. Also, whitwell never mentioned Bruno , just generally said some players don't think he is a top top coach which even most Ole fans admit that he is not a top coach. That doesn't suggest there is a rift goin on which Duncan Castles has been trying to push.
I'm dumber than a second coat of paint. That's what I wanted to say in the first place, that the club will side with the players.
I don't know, to be honest I don't pay much attention knowing how the media work in England when it comes to United, but there were similar quotes a few months into last season when we started poorly following on from ending the previous season poorly after the new Manager bounce and certain un-named players questioning Ole's ability to turn the sides fortunes around. It obviously went quiet when he did ....
And if the article is recent it states 'several squad players' not regulars, you'll always get a few who are not getting a look in, or completely frozen out that will have a casual pop at the Manager in passing knowing it won't come back on them.
It's Jesse and Diogo!
Or it may well have been one or two of the foreign lads who speak very little English saying yes to a question they didn't understand just to be polite, I doubt they(whoever they are)met the journalist in question for a Coffee to spill the beans.
It's Romero and Bailly!
Beanz, it's Jesse again.
Right. So for me a takeaway here is it's not just Bruno but other players. Which is consistent with Laurie Whitwell from Athletic and in my opinion the most worrying news for Ole as it marks the beginning of the end.
A "rift" is probably a strong term, because Castles says that all the players get on fine with Ole. He makes a point of stating this actually. Castles just states that the players are losing belief that Ole is a good manager. This has also been reported by Athletic.
Here's what Castle states in his podcast almost word for word:
- Senior players at Man Utd have not been entirely impressed by his management or coaching, or physical fitness regimes and even tactical decisions.
- It's not that he is disliked, but there is a sense that top level players who have had experience with the best managers feel he is not at the class managerial level that United need.
- The worry is that the feeling has now spread to Bruno Fernandes. Fernandes was substituted at half time, there has been reports that he was shouting "we are supposed to be Manchester United" and that he was questioning Ole's tactics. Castles says he's told that this is correct.
- Castle's says Fernandes' opinion of Ole is the same as other senior players in the team. That he's not strong enough and not able to push the team in the direction it needs to be.
I think from Castles specifically I can agree with @#07 that hopefully at least, the public questioning of Ole from Bruno may be inaccurate. But I can certainly believe many players doubt Ole as a manager.
this story about players concerned about his coaching level were there end of his first pre season
I don't believe it is Bruno vs Ole. More likely Bruno, Rashford & others vs Pogba & Maguire
Thing is, Leicester will look at Rodgers and see the expansive style of play whilst maintaining organisation and showing consistency and think "yeah, this manager knows what he's doing". Arsenal will look at a complete change in play implemented by Arteta, which works, suits their skillsets and play in a system that works for all players - and think "yes, Arteta knows what he's doing". Ancelotti in my opinion is a top manager, just because he had the balls to go to Napoli and Everton, that fact isn't changed.
Ole however is adamant on 4321 which isnt working for both Pogba and Bruno, he's displayed constantly poor man management and even when he does flick the system around it's not well drilled enough for us to succeed (e.g. when we tested 5 at the back vs Chelsea and got owned). Moreover the things he openly says he wants to change about us on the pitch, such as being the most hard working team, also falls flat on his face. We were in the bottom half of the table for distance covered in the 19/20 season.
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I dont know if the story is true but if anyone is facing Ole it will definitely be Bruno.
He's the only one who really has the desire to win titles, we saw it how he rant against Lindelof against Sevilla. It wouldnt surprise me if his emotions got to him and he had a go at Ole.
All the other players have been "this is not good enough" for a long long time, cant imagine DE Gea, Shaw, Rashford, Martial, etc being seriously disappointed since thats the level they been used to for a long long time now.
He's the only one who really has the desire to win titles, we saw it how he rant against Lindelof against Sevilla. It wouldnt surprise me if his emotions got to him and he had a go at Ole.
All the other players have been "this is not good enough" for a long long time, cant imagine DE Gea, Shaw, Rashford, Martial, etc being seriously disappointed since thats the level they been used to for a long long time now.
This./
If you look at it from any perspective other than “I’m a United fan on a a United forum who would walk over hot coals to play for the club” you can see he didn’t sign here to play with the ghosts of Cavani & Matic being backed by Harry Maguire but that’s for another thread. . .
Where in the hell has this assertion come from?
Just when Maguire thought it couldn't get any worse he gets paired with Pogba, it must have been a mighty big black cat he kicked whilst walking under a ladder.