New format proposed for 2024-27 Champions League

[Uniquim]

So UEFA have been discussing the next TV cycle of the Champions League with 'stakeholders' and proposed a move to 'swiss system' for the Champions League. This would be for 2024-25 through 2026-27, and this is just a proposal being discussed with clubs at the moment.

Swiss System
"Out goes the 32-team group stage; in comes a 36-team “Swiss model” league, in which each club will play 10 games: five at home, five away. The fixtures will be based on seedings and the teams will be ranked from one to 36. The top eight will advance automatically to a 16-team knockout round, while the next 16 teams will go into a play-off round to decide those final eight slots."

Basically, everyone is in the same groups, but divivded by seedings, and you draw opponents from different seeding tiers, and play them. So United (2nd seed), could play Madrid (1st seed), Dynamo Kyiv (3rd seed), Marseille (4th seed) and Molde (5th seed), but then Madrid could end up playing Atalanta, Midtjylland & Olympiakos from the different seeding tiers. So the power balance between opponents should be pretty fair, and then you qualify for knockouts through an aggregate table. This should ensure that there's more to play for, for most teams until the last round of games. Esp. as 17 - 24 will likely still qualify you for Europa League.

4 More teams
The added 4 teams should have opened up more room for good clubs from smaller, but looks like one of this slots will go to France's 4th best team. One will go to teams that have performed well in recent seasons, to avoid another Ajax going to the semi finals, and then having to play qualifiers the next season.

And...

"The other two slots are an even bigger safety net for inconvenienced giants as these would be reserved for the teams with the best club coefficient, a ranking based on performances in Europe over the previous five seasons, that had made a mess of the previous season’s domestic campaign. Think Manchester United two seasons ago or Tottenham last season."

However, this is balanced out by

"There are some limits to the second chances being dished out, though, as the big leagues are capped at seven European slots each, with the general idea being four teams in the Champions League, two in the Europa League and one in the Europa Conference League. If any aristocrats slip into the consolation-prize zone, the domestic league in question will not be able to send a full quota to the second or third-tier competitions."



The English clubs, among other, have already been informed about this proposal. "European Leagues, the body that represent 37 domestic leagues across the continent, has called an extraordinary general meeting on Friday and will share UEFA’s plan with its members. It will tell them they must object to the plan on two key points: the number of games and who gets those four extra slots, what is known as “access” in the jargon."

[source]


Thoughts
I'm quite excited about this tbh, because I think it'll work well. I'd rather they not have a playoff-round, and just qualify the top 16, but I guess this would work. Could mean teams will push harder for top 8.
Wish they'd give the 4 new slots to teams from smaller leagues though. It's supposed to be hard to qualify for the Champions League. I don't want England to potentially have 6 slots.

The swiss system is also flexible in participants, so one downside it's that it's a lot easier for UEFA to increase the competition size in increments should they be pressured to do so by clubs around the continent. At least that's a downside for me, as I want the Champions League to be an exclusive competition which is hard to qualify for.

 

[dinostar77]

UEFAs attempt to stop the Superleague as proposed by some of the big clubs and make sure UEFA has a slice of the pie.

Whichever way you present it, league stages are boring. Its the knockouts which excite people. Last seasons single leg knockouts were brilliant. Thats what CL football should be. Ruthless. But it wont happen. A SL whether its a breakaway or run by UEFA just doesnt excite me. A league game against Barcelona? Wake me up when we get to the knockout stages.

 

[adexkola]

When I seize power, whatever group of people came up with this monstrous proposal will be flung off specially designed Trebuchets into Siberia, and non-champions will be kicked out of the CL

 

[Utd heap]

I've got no real issue with it. The Champions League has been constantly revamped over the decades, it wasn't long ago we had those bizarre two sets of group stages.

 

[Gio]

If we test the proposal against a few principles that guide what an effective competition looks like:

• Fairness - does it increase access for clubs who have harder routes in? No it provides greater insurance for the big leagues to ensure their big clubs swallow up the additional 4 spots.
• Simplicity - is it easy to understand? Nowhere near as convoluted as the Nations League, but less straightforward than the existing format.
• Competition - does it result in meaningful games? There is an improvement here where places 9-24 go into a play-off for the last 16.

I would be supportive if the model was less exclusive to the big leagues and those extra 4 spots were used to widen access rather than narrow it. 20 years of systematically enabling the big leagues to grow more rich off Champions League money is why the current structure has grown stale. That's why there are dead rubbers in the group stage and a lack of excitement until the knockouts. Any changes to the format should not further increase the advantages the big leagues already have.

 

[Kamprad]

Looks to be the same failure as Nations League. This can’t have been suggested by football people, more likely executives who’s parents payed their PE teachers to give them higher grades.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

This feels like a response to the murmuring of a European super league. Champions League was most exciting last season with one leg knock out games, they should look to bring this back but they won't.

 

[Lay]

No thanks. Group stages are a bore though. They changed the seeding system recently but it’s made it even more boring

 

[Lagger]

So instead of 6 group stage games, they have 10? Where are they taking the extra play days from? The calender seems full enough as it is. And fans don't like group stages that much anyway. Oh, I get it.. .more games, more commercials spots during TV broadcasts... do not like this at all. Greedy bastards are already destroying the bodies of these players as it is, what with the silly Nation's League and all.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

10 group games instead of 6, plus even more if you're just outside the top 8 and need to go into playoffs to decide the next 8 to go to the last 16. Sounds very bloated, where will it all fit into the calendar?

The group stage is the worst part of the CL, and it seems like they're making that part bigger, and the exciting part slightly smaller.

I'd rather see them go the other way, with a World Cup-like format. Single games. Play each team once in the group, and then a straight knockout. They'd never do it because it's half the TV money, but every game would be knife edge stuff. It'd make for a way better spectacle. More shootouts, more upsets etc.

 

[BD]

Shite

 

[Pexbo]

“Out goes the 32-team group stage; in comes a 36-team “Swiss model” league, in which each club will play 10 games: five at home, five away. The fixtures will be based on seedings and the teams will be ranked from one to 36. The top eight will advance automatically to a 16-team knockout round, while the next 16 teams will go into a play-off round to decide those final eight slots."


This blows. I absolutely hate with a passion the idea of a league system where you don’t actually get the opportunity to directly impact the standings rivals for positions. The idea that you could play a half decent side while the teams around you are having a walk in the park against absolute guff is ridiculous.

The only benefit I could see to it is that dead rubbers become less likely as you will be required to smash the minnows to keep your records up.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Looks to be the same failure as Nations League. This can’t have been suggested by football people, more likely executives who’s parents payed their PE teachers to give them higher grades.

Maybe its just me but Nations League has been a massive success. I hated internationals before it, now I can actively tolerate them.

 

[Judas]

Sounds horrid and odd to me. I'm all for a revamp, but not like that.

 

[Kamprad]

Maybe its just me but Nations League has been a massive success. I hated internationals before it, now I can actively tolerate them.

Really? It’s better than friendlies but I don’t know anyone who cares for that tournament.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Really? It’s better than friendlies but I don’t know anyone who cares for that tournament.

I just couldn't stand international friendlies and actually think in time the Nations league will be viewed quite favourably as it's clear the players are actually giving their all in that competition at least. Overall i just think its improved the quality of the football on offer.

 

[ivaldo]

Looks to be the same failure as Nations League. This can’t have been suggested by football people, more likely executives who’s parents payed their PE teachers to give them higher grades.

You think Nations League was a failure?

 

[Nick7]

I genuinely didn’t think anyone viewed the Nations League as anything more than friendlies

 

[Judas]

I love the Nations League compared to Friendlies. Its a brilliant replacement, especially if you're one of the nations who could actually win a trophy in the end. It's very early days for it, so of course it feels meaningless.

 

[Kamprad]

You think Nations League was a failure?

I love the Nations League compared to Friendlies. Its a brilliant replacement, especially if you're one of the nations who could actually win a trophy in the end. It's very early days for it, so of course it feels meaningless.

Yes it’s a failure for me and everyone I know. I don’t feel anything at all watching those games. I don’t care if Sweden wins the trophy. I don’t even know if I would watch a final involving Sweden. Maybe that’ll change in the future but no one I know are the least passionate about NL. But I admit I’m hard to impress. Even the World Cup has lost a portion of it’s magic. Maybe it’s that I’m getting older. Or maybe it really has to do with people without passion for the game, with money on their minds, arranging the tournaments and deciding the rules.

 

[Kamprad]

I genuinely didn’t think anyone viewed the Nations League as anything more than friendlies

Apparently there’s people who’s fallen in love with it

 

[No Spring Chicken]

Daft question, will this Swiss system use 3 points for a win/1 for a draw?

 

[Lay]

This feels like a response to the murmuring of a European super league. Champions League was most exciting last season with one leg knock out games, they should look to bring this back but they won't.

That would be great, maybe two legged semi finals but the other rounds being 1 leg

 

[Oranges038]

What an overly complicated load of crap.

Champions League should be only for the league Champions from each European country.

Seedings should also go, they really need to have open draws like the FA Cup. Seedings are just designed to make sure as many of the top teams as possible are still there toward the end of year competition.

I'd also like to see them continue with the one match knock out rounds.

 

[11101]

Desperate attempt to fend of the Super League. They should be shrinking it instead of making it even bigger. The reason group stages are boring is because nobody is interested in watching a meaningless game 6 against Istanbul Basaksehir or Ferencvaros.

 

[Judas]

What an overly complicated load of crap.

Champions League should be only for the league Champions from each European country.

Seedings should also go, they really need to have open draws like the FA Cup. Seedings are just designed to make sure as many of the top teams as possible are still there toward the end of year competition.

I'd also like to see them continue with the one match knock out rounds.

That's just never going to happen as not a single organisation involved would want such a downgrade of the tournament.

I did really enjoy the tournament one match knockout stage they were forced into in the summer, it was great entertainment and freshened the whole thing up.

 

[Zen86]

God no. It's a cup competition, it should stay that way. It'll just further diminish the value of various leagues across Europe, including the PL.

 

[Uniquim]

I would be supportive if the model was less exclusive to the big leagues and those extra 4 spots were used to widen access rather than narrow it. 20 years of systematically enabling the big leagues to grow more rich off Champions League money is why the current structure has grown stale. That's why there are dead rubbers in the group stage and a lack of excitement until the knockouts. Any changes to the format should not further increase the advantages the big leagues already have.

I really agree, I wish all the new slots would go to leagues outside the top 5-6. I don't think anyone should have more than 3 pre-qualified teams, and one team to go through qualifying. Would help if the financials were less stacked in favor of big league teams too, but maybe the UEFA Conference League will help with that.

• Competition - does it result in meaningful games? There is an improvement here where places 9-24 go into a play-off for the last 16.

This year's group stage would give:

16 — Bayern München (+13)
16 — Manchester City (+12)
15 — Barcelona (+11)
15 — Juventus (+10)
14 — Chelsea (+12)
13 — Borussia Dortmund (+7)
13 — Liverpool (+7) (+ag)
13 — Porto (+7)
13 — Sevilla (+1)
12 — Paris Saint-Germain (+7)
12 — Red Bull Leipzig (+5)
11 — Atalanta (+2)
10 — Lazio (+4)
10 — Real Madrid (+2)
9 — Atlético Madrid (-1)
9 — Manchester United (+5)
8 — Borussia Mönchengladbach (+7)
8 — Club Brugge (-2)
8 — Shakhtar Donetsk (-7)
7 — Ajax Amsterdam (+0)
6 — Internazionale (-2)
5 — Krasnodar (-5)
4 — Red Bull Salzburg (-7)
4 — Dynamo Kyiv (-9)
3 — Lokomotiv Moscow (-5)
3 — Olympiakos Piraeus (-8)
3 — Istanbul Basaksehir (-11)
3 — Olympique Marseille (-11)
2 — Midtjylland (-9)
1 — Stade Rennais (-8)
1 — Zenit St. Petersburg (-9)
1 — Ferencváros (-12)

So assuming 9 meets 24, 10 v 23 etc. we would face Borussia Mönchengladbach in the preliminary knockout round, although they might hold a draw instead.
Personally I'd prefer it'd be top 16 qualify, no extra knockout round, because I don't think 4 points should be enough to get anywhere but the Europa League, at that point the whole group stage is getting close to redundant.

Alternately, I wouldn't be a bit more open to top 12 qualify directly, whilst #13 through 20 has to play for qualifcation. That way you'd need 7-8 points to have a chance to progress.

Though the upside is that the top teams would have to win more of their games to land in the top 8, and avoid two extra games, so there'll be a bit more at stake.

But yeah, I'd prefer a top 16 cut-off, I think.

10 group games instead of 6, plus even more if you're just outside the top 8 and need to go into playoffs to decide the next 8 to go to the last 16. Sounds very bloated, where will it all fit into the calendar?

The group stage is the worst part of the CL, and it seems like they're making that part bigger, and the exciting part slightly smaller.

I'd rather see them go the other way, with a World Cup-like format. Single games. Play each team once in the group, and then a straight knockout. They'd never do it because it's half the TV money, but every game would be knife edge stuff. It'd make for a way better spectacle. More shootouts, more upsets etc.

It didn't specify, but I'm thinking they might cut one qualifying round and eat into August perhaps.

In any case, I think there will be some resistance to adding that many extra games, esp. since FAs like England doesn't want to end the League Cup. This system is quite flexible though, so it will work fine with 3 home and 3 away games as well, if they cut back to 4 seeding groups.

 

[dinostar77]

Making it the same format as WC or Euro finals with less group games and single leg knockouts would be better, but money talks.

I like them to scrap the europa league. Change that back to the UEFA cup and make that a pure single leg knockout competition. It would raise interest in that competition and reduce the amount of european fixtures.

 

[Oranges038]

That's just never going to happen as not a single organisation involved would want such a downgrade of the tournament.

I did really enjoy the tournament one match knockout stage they were forced into in the summer, it was great entertainment and freshened the whole thing up.

Yeah, I know that, but that's how it should be done. This new format means a few more big teams play each other = more TV money.

This is all about keeping the TV money rolling in, it's like a TV show, where they are trying to write a new script to keep things fresh and keep people interested.

 

[OutlawGER]

I am sceptical of big changes like this because i think it's working well how it is.

But this idea sounds interesting.

 

[Manoucha09]

10 group games instead of 6, plus even more if you're just outside the top 8 and need to go into playoffs to decide the next 8 to go to the last 16. Sounds very bloated, where will it all fit into the calendar?

The group stage is the worst part of the CL, and it seems like they're making that part bigger, and the exciting part slightly smaller.

I'd rather see them go the other way, with a World Cup-like format. Single games. Play each team once in the group, and then a straight knockout. They'd never do it because it's half the TV money, but every game would be knife edge stuff. It'd make for a way better spectacle. More shootouts, more upsets etc.

Agreed. I'd even go a step further and suggest an FA Cup style tournament with no seeding and no group stage. Straight knockouts, possibly 2-legged ties, starting with a round of 64 (including teams who would usually go through third qualifying round).

Ties up until the last 16 played in the first half of the season, and then single legged ties in a neutral venue for the last 16 onwards.

Or just keep it as it is.

 

[Zen86]

Making it the same format as WC or Euro finals with less group games and single leg knockouts would be better, but money talks.

I like them to scrap the europa league. Change that back to the UEFA cup and make that a pure single leg knockout competition. It would raise interest in that competition and reduce the amount of european fixtures.

Or better yet, merge the CL and Europa into one massive single leg knockout competition

 

[tenpoless]

Yeah, go on keep changing shit, UEFA. KEEP CHANGING SHIT.

 

[GazTheLegend]

Anyone remember the old champions League system where you had to win one set of group games to go into a second set of group games? It sucked balls, I have absolutely no memory of either group, excepting that we might have played Valencia in it. Those games just get lost in the quagmire of time, whereas the knockout games always end up memorable somehow (whether you win or lose)

 

[adexkola]

Desperate attempt to fend of the Super League. They should be shrinking it instead of making it even bigger. The reason group stages are boring is because nobody is interested in watching a meaningless game 6 against Istanbul Basaksehir or Ferencvaros.

They're champions most likely. Which means they won the top league in their country. Which is more than what you can say of United or Milan in the past 5 years.

 

[Uniquim]

Anyone remember the old champions League system where you had to win one set of group games to go into a second set of group games? It sucked balls, I have absolutely no memory of either group, excepting that we might have played Valencia in it. Those games just get lost in the quagmire of time, whereas the knockout games always end up memorable somehow (whether you win or lose)

1999-00, 2000-01, 2001-02 and 2002-03 Champions League. Was too many games for my liking, but some people loved it and want it back.

 

[Uniquim]

Desperate attempt to fend of the Super League. They should be shrinking it instead of making it even bigger. The reason group stages are boring is because nobody is interested in watching a meaningless game 6 against Istanbul Basaksehir or Ferencvaros.

Think this might actually morph into the Super League over time. They're testing the water with adding more games, and the Swiss model is flexible in terms of number of games, and number of teams, so say they add 4 more teams next time around to reach 40. Then they decide to separate the top half of teams from the bottom half, then they'll have a 20-team Super League where they can play 8-10-12 games through the tier system to allow it to exist alongside the domestic leagues, and they'll likely keep a playoff of 4/8 teams to retain the Champions League final.

 

[dinostar77]

NFL, WC, Copa America, Euro Championships have all pretty much use the the same format for their knockout stages. Why? Cause it generates excitement and viewing figures.

Personally i dont want to watch Utd play 10 group stage/CL league games.

Less is more.

 

[Uniquim]

NFL, WC, Copa America, Euro Championships have all pretty much use the the same format for their knockout stages. Why? Cause it generates excitement and viewing figures.

Personally i dont want to watch Utd play 10 group stage/CL league games.

Less is more.

I agree about the number of games, I think they should avoid adding more, similar to how a 32-team World Cup was perfect as far as I'm concerned. I like the Champions League being an exclusive difficult-to-reach competition. I'd rather it remained a bit harder to reach for the big league teams too. 3 auto-qualified + 1 team in the qualifying rounds maximum for me, to allow a few teams from smaller leagues too.


About the format though, I quite want to see them test it out. Didn't have to be the CL, but I don't see an established format as a reason that it can't be improved. We were all content with physical mail, and offices having rooms full for printed paper until the internet and computer came along.

Not saying swiss model is absolutely better, but I'd like to see it tested.

In any case this new system is for the group stages, the knockout stages will continue as is.