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Jose Mourinho Sack Watch | Sacked per 19-04
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He spent triple what Sir Alex Ferguson spent, net and gross. The only challengers in the league (United and Arsenal were both undergoing a rebuild). And he was only able to win 2 of the 4 seasons during his first stint, while getting eliminated by a very ordinary Liverpool two times in Europe during those years.
Given that United outperformed Chelsea in that 4 year stint, I'd hardly call it 'dominating", especially given the funds he had access to. Nobody prior or since got to spend as much relative to competition, year in and year out.
He won becuase Chelsea had what was comfortably the best squad in England, not due to a formation which was widely being played all across Europe anyways.
So at least 30M to sack him or let him burn the club down a little bit more. Lose-lose situation for Levy. Love it.
They really should take the hit and hope Kane/Son haven't had enough this summer.
30m...that can't be right, surely.
Hilarious if it is though.
Wouldn't be surprised if Spurs are in a position where they have no choice but to back him, all things considered.
They really poured in the funds to build him the squad he wanted in the summer, despite the financial uncertainties/demands they've got regarding their new stadium.
If they did bring in a new manager, it would be another Sherwood-esque appointment, and that would be such a fall from grace following on from Poch.
They really poured in the funds to build him the squad he wanted in the summer, despite the financial uncertainties/demands they've got regarding their new stadium.
If they did bring in a new manager, it would be another Sherwood-esque appointment, and that would be such a fall from grace following on from Poch.
He's probably earned more than £50 million from getting the sack over his career.
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Well if they sell Kane and Son it should cover it.
You've got to think Levy would be talking to Kane and Son. If they are both unhappy then I can see Jose getting the boot. If they're backing him then so will Levy.
This is hillarious. We have heard his players speak about him. Lots of his players openly speak about his lack of coaching or patterns when it comes to offensive football. Hazard was openly mocking how little work they did tactically under Mourinho, compares to Conte. Professionalism? That sounds lackadaisical and unorofessiinal, as is his general approach.
What 'outdated' models did he move away from? United were playing with fast wing play and counter attacks before Mourinho came and after him, and Ferguson outperformed him during his stint in England. Was the Ferguson way "outdated"?
And what is this 'level of professionalism' that he demanded? Wenger was the most influential figure in changing nutrition in English football and brining continental football. What exactly did Mourinho contribute in terms of 'professionalism'?
He spent a lot on a team that had never won before.
This is domination:
P38 W29 D8 L1 Pts 95 GF 72 GA 15
Best defensive record in the league last year was 33 conceded. Points tally wasn't broken till Pep's monster City. United with 13 titles have never come close to that points tally or number of wins, and nobody can touch that goals conceded.
Next year it's followed up with with a creditable:
P38 W29 D4 L5 Pts 91 GF 72 GA 22
I hated his time here, I really hated him throwing every creative player under the bus, but he was very good before 2012.
Taking down Pep's Barca first in the CL, with an outstanding home win and then an awesome defensive job away, and then in the league by outscoring and out-winning them. Probably the best team in history led by the best player at his peak, and 2 different teams of Mourinho are the reason they don't have 3 CLs and 4 league titles in a row.
I see it slightly differently. He spent a lot on the team that finished 2nd the year before, ahead of United, in the first year of the Abramovic takeover.
Winning 2 leagues in 4 seasons when you have no competition because the only two challengers are undergoing a transition, and being able to spend 3 times as much as your next nearest spender, only to be outperformed by that team in question over a 4 year period isn't domination, by any sense of the word.
Not sure why the points tally in just one of the 4 seasons matters more than the points tally from 2006-2007, if we were to look at it from another point of view.
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Eh? If anything it's "worse" on the continent. The majority of big clubs in Europe would give up the league if it meant a genuine chance of CL let alone the cups.
Spurs losing from a 2-0 lead in a European game isn't really that shocking to me tbh...slight over-reaction from pundits and fans.
I swear sometimes it seems like he is doing all this shit on purpose.
I stand by everything I said.
Carling Cup
At this stage, if Jose cannot rebuild then he's done and it's Clough territory of decline.
I have literally just given these examples! He had players training with the ball since day one. He had a different level of intensity in sessions that he would often organize himself. A young Mourinho was relentless and had particularly high standards for his players.
He won the Champions League with Porto! He did a treble with Inter! It doesn’t matter that he focused more on defensive stability and protecting leads with various blocks and organization. He did things with it that have never again been achieved. Porto will never win a CL again. Série A won’t taste one for a very long time.
He raised the bar at Chelsea in terms of how many goals conceded and points a championship team should be allowed. He did that through ridiculously high standards and meticulous planning, as well as the spending.
To put all those achievements together and suggest it was luck, is absolutely bizarre. Just because he focused on aspects of the game that you don’t particularly like, doesn’t mean he didn’t have a massive influence on the game.
We had the greatest manager in the history of the game and his two CL wins had him outplayed in one final and winning by two last gasp goals and relying on a slip to take the other.
Every big tournament win in football has fortune along the way, but you also can’t do it without being a great team and having quality performances along the way.
To write it off as luck, when you consider the size of his achievements, is ridiculous.
He used to win a trophy or so before imploding.
To put Jose career achievements down to luck is one of the most misguided statements I have read.
But you are of course entitled to your views, however inaccurate.
Agree. And apart from the UCL and the premier league, only the FA cup holds any importance.
You might be responding to a different post because I didn't say that any manager's entire accomplishments are due to luck. In fact, I never mentioned luck in my post.
You responded by talking about Chelsea's defensive record when that wasn't what was questioned. You said Mourinho raised the 'standard of professionalism' in English football.
Let's recap the sequence of events here.
You want to give Mourinho crédito for things he shouldn't be credited
I asked you how Mourinho raised the sandards of professionalism and moved past outdated tactics.
You responded by telling me "his wins aren't due to luck. Chalking everything he did down to luck is ridiculous!"
I'm not sure what to do with this.
Again, he literally did this in England. He was the first manager to use 4-3-3 and 4-3-1-2; prior to that everyone more or less played a 4-4-2 (even Wenger).
And while he doesn't deserve sole credit for it, he was also among the first managers to emphasize training with the ball and specific tactics based on game situations. Obviously that's all taken for granted now, but in the context of the early noughties it was groundbreaking. Most managers in England at the time wouldn't train with actual balls so that their players would "want it more" during matches.
I agree that he's not come up with anything since his days at Madrid. Think the Wenger analogy is spot on personally - the game has passed him by but it'd be silly to dismiss his accomplishments when he burst onto the scene.
So much ground to cover here.
The question was whether he was innovative. He wasn't. He didn't invent 4-3-3 and the formation had much less to do with Chelsea's 2 titles in 4 years than the fact that he was allowed to spend more than any manager that preceded him or followed him, relative to competition.
"Among the first to train with the ball" is not only inaccurate, but isn't a rebuttle. Ferguson trained with balls and for game situationd at least an entire decade before Mourinho came. And Ferguson's tactics weren't "want it more". Neither were Wenger's.
So that answers the question as to whether Mourinho was innovative.
So in your mind the only way to be innovative is to invent a new formation? And anyone could have won those titles in the manner he did just because of the money spent?
No point discussing things if you're intent on writing revisionist history.
Sorry if I wasn’t clear, but the point is pretty simple. His achievements are down to the standards and intensity that he brought to the game. The attention to detail, new formations, different philosophy, psychology with the players. All of it.
His achievements are a direct result of the challenges he brought to other teams through his approach and methods.
No need to do anything with it
I'll try to be constructive:
With the squad he has, this season has been a failure so far. No question.
But I don't think he is 'finished' and I still think his work there would be incomplete if they didn't give him a second (full) season. So I think he should get it, especially if they win the League Cup.
If i had to choose one of Moyes, van Gaal or Mourinho to return as our manager.. Mourinho would be my 3rd. I didn't enjoy having him as the manager. You hear of promising players coming through and just know they won't get a shot.
With the squad he has, this season has been a failure so far. No question.
But I don't think he is 'finished' and I still think his work there would be incomplete if they didn't give him a second (full) season. So I think he should get it, especially if they win the League Cup.
If i had to choose one of Moyes, van Gaal or Mourinho to return as our manager.. Mourinho would be my 3rd. I didn't enjoy having him as the manager. You hear of promising players coming through and just know they won't get a shot.
I think he is Jose fc
Chris Wilder is available.
This is why you're still not promoted.How hard I'll laugh at some of his haters on here if he manages to win the league
The supposedly finished ex-manager who wasn't good enough wins the league with a team that didn't win anything in years and is known for their loser mentality ahead of record breaking teams like City & Liverpool. While the naysayers celebrating top 4 and trying to make new excuses for their beloved out of depth manager. It'll serve them just right.
He's already vindicated about Martial & Pogba.
From a manager who made Ferguson change his preseason preparations in order to fight Chelsea (United needed to be much stronger and fitter from the start of the season instead of starting slowly and building momentum) to the manager who gets dumped from Europe by a club which till the last season hasn't proggressed to second round of european competition for 40 years.
His fall is truly remarkable, don't think anyone could've expected it during early 2010s.
His fall is truly remarkable, don't think anyone could've expected it during early 2010s.
Surprised, I soured during Sevilla and wanted him gone after the fa cup final. I know a lot of fans did even some of the ones going to the stadium, from words had at half time or pre game.
Fergie would've eaten him alive now but there in lies answer failure to adapt is adapting to fail.
He´s shite manager and shite person, just keep wondering why he´s still getting some "top" jobs.. No doubt he will get another one, Inter´s waiting Jose with all the old players I am sure he would be a good fit.
Even if he'll have them stumble to a cup win(unlikely), would it have been worth it to hire him, in the eyes of Spurs-fans?
I think this arc is actually relatively common. Managers like SAF and Paisley who maintained their standard and went out on top are the exception to the rule. Most managers who were once on top of the world eventually find their methods surpassed or lack the wherewithal and motivation to adapt to a changing game. Look at Wenger or Sacchi. Or Rafa Benitez, who won La Liga twice with freaking Valencia then the CL in a span of four years, and now in his last two jobs has managed in the Championship and some team in China.
Well, that was never substainable in the first place, RM and Barca weren't particulary impressive in the early 2000s, not compared to the machines they later turned into, consistently having 90+ points season.
He has been on a downward trend since Liverpool, but he did an okay job with Chelsea, and with Newcastle too, i believe.
He was way out of his element of RM though, that much is clear, but a solid manager overall, didnt exactly crash and burn.
Regarding his RM, the main/best players in that team went on to win 4 CL titles eventually and had Ronaldo who is also one of the best players of all time. It's not like the RM team that beat Barca to the title were average, they had some exceptional players.
Last few years he has been turning up unshaven, hair not properly done, clothing choices could be better. I mean don't be like Arteta but at least be decent, presentable. He was perfectly fine when he was doing fine as manager but this outlook degradation coincides with his performance degradation. There has to be a link. I am suspecting some psychological issue with him. Best for him to take a break and enjoy time with family for few years.
He seems to be on 15M per year and is contracted for 2 more years with no break clause that i would assume gets him less than a full payout.
I don't know how UK laws works but i imagine he'd be due those 2 years right ? I'm sure there will be lawyers and big negotiations but there's no way he gets booted with less than a year's wages.
Nobody could have predicted this coronavirus crisis but knowing you were going 600m/1B down with a new stadium with an ageing squad was not going to be an easy ride.
They made it infinitely harder on themselves by hiring the short-sighted and imo, the worst option possible. Their rebuild is going to be forced on them instead of gradually planning it.
Kind of like what happened to us with Ashburton Grove (remember that!) but we had a genius in charge to steer us through the lean years.
Exactly, he really worked his magic...
@duffer :
18M Chelsea (2007)
17M Real Madrid (2012)
10M Chelsea (2015)
19.6M United (2019)
15-30M Spurs 2021?
One more big job and he might break the 100M
These others clubs can shoulder these costs because at some point they will eventually win and get over it.
Tottenham might be about to waste 40M+ paying off Poch and Mourinho with no trophy in sight (come on Pep!).
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