In terms of clear cut chances I'd add Werner's chance against England too. Not as good a chance given the angle and it being on his left foot though.
England - Euro 2021 Discussion | FA chairman: Southgate to be offered new contract until Euro 2024
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Walker comes across very well in this.
And it being Werner
Exactly. If the manager was any other guy, people would be writing eulogies on that phase of play. 54 passes towards the end of a knockout fixture when the opposition needed a goal to stay in the competition is pretty much unheard of.
People can go on how the pen was soft and bla bla but England were deserving winners yesterday and I'm quite certain that ENgland would have scored regardless in that ET - that's how good they were
He has won 3 KO matches in a European championship. England, in their entire history, had won a single one, against Spain in penalties in 1996. If you include both Euros and World Cup, Southgate has already won 5 KO matches. Without him, England has won 6 in their entire history.
It is pretty boring football, but the results speak for themselves.
It is pretty boring football, but the results speak for themselves.
Just rewatching the game now and I've just finished the first half. At the game, I thought it was pretty even or Denmark edged it. Watching it back, while Denmark would have been the happier of the two teams, I think we were the better team aside from a good 10 min period from Denmark.
It’s really interesting watching the game live, then following up with the tv coverage.
Very good so far and I've been surprised as if you watch England in 16/17 period or even up to just before the world cup it was largely the same drab football that had been played for last decade under Capello and then Hodgson with just younger players.
Guess Iceland is one of those rock bottom stories and then England win a tournament 5 years later etc but it really didn't look likely at all in Southgate's first 18 months, so many forgettable qualification games v likes of Lithuania and nearly losing to Scotland.
What's he's done well is forge a real togtherness in squad that was never really there in the 2000s, players happy to play for England again rather than finding it a massive irritant so with the talent and depth that will take things a long way.
Of course he still has flaws that would likely be exposed in club football but really he's got the job for as long as he wants now. Could easily see him doing it under world cup 2026 tbh.
Only issue now is people will want this to happen every tournament so even going out in the quarters would be seen as massive failure when it was the norm a decade ago.
After two relatively kind knock out draws England will probably get a hard one at next world cup e.g. Brazil/France QF so that will be a big test but he's passed a few of them in the two tournaments already.
Guess Iceland is one of those rock bottom stories and then England win a tournament 5 years later etc but it really didn't look likely at all in Southgate's first 18 months, so many forgettable qualification games v likes of Lithuania and nearly losing to Scotland.
What's he's done well is forge a real togtherness in squad that was never really there in the 2000s, players happy to play for England again rather than finding it a massive irritant so with the talent and depth that will take things a long way.
Of course he still has flaws that would likely be exposed in club football but really he's got the job for as long as he wants now. Could easily see him doing it under world cup 2026 tbh.
Only issue now is people will want this to happen every tournament so even going out in the quarters would be seen as massive failure when it was the norm a decade ago.
After two relatively kind knock out draws England will probably get a hard one at next world cup e.g. Brazil/France QF so that will be a big test but he's passed a few of them in the two tournaments already.
Yeah it's something I tend to do if I go to a big or good game. It takes the irrational emotion out of it. It's not to say we were amazing but interesting how the same game can feel very different.
It’s interesting that you have that debacle for England. It was such a low. Then for Italy, hey didn’t even qualify for the last World Cup.
one Of them will walk away with a trophy after such lows only a few years ago.
its impossible not to influenced by the commentators when watching on TV. When i got home last night, the first things I was reading was what a tense game it was. To me in the crown, without that influence, it didn’t feel tense at all. Especially in extra time. They had one corner when i was slightly nervous about, the rest of it felt very comfortable.
I’ve not watched the game yet, but will over the coming days.
Just what international football is about really. Germany had their worst ever team at euro 2000 and then made a world cup final two years later. France were on strike at world cup 2010 but didn't take them long to get right back to the top tier. Italy now back as you say, eventually same will happen for Holland. Brazil lost 7-1 and will be major favourite in Qatar.
If you're a big football mad country eventually you'll get a good generation of players pop up at some point. Where England have improved is actually get the structure right below that for once.
When I was growing up it was always people moaning why didn't England have a national football centre like France do? Since St Georges Park opened in 2012 so was never going to get instant results but now it is and obviously the academy focus is producing top class young players that the managers at the top clubs are giving proper chances to rather than sending them endlessly on loan e.g. Mount, Foden, Saka.
And more players going abroad (Sancho/Bellingham) also helping and long called for.
In 2008 was all English CL final and England didn't even make the euros so significant different now, good generation of English players and English football in pretty strong period.
I was pretty nervous in the stadium but more because I was worried we may not get a goal and it would go to pens.
I also had the fear that they might just get a goal out of nowhere from a set piece. As far as the football went, I felt we were largely comfortable throughout and the tension was largely due to the scoreline more than anything.
Any criticisms of Southgate are absolutely ridiculous, for these reasons.
Same applies for the World Cup - he won two knockout games in 2018. That's the same as England achieved in total, from 1994, 1998, 2002, 2006, 2010 and 2014 combined, with a squad that I would consider worse than we had for the majority of those years.
Complaining about the style of play is more valid, but I can't remember a tournament winning international manager who hasn't been criticised on here.
- Deschamps was overly defensive in 2018 and is generally considered a dreadful manager
- Portugal were defensive and extremely lucky in 2016
- Low has been called a joke on here for more than a decade, including before, during and after the 2014 World Cup win
- Del Bosque was despised for his boring play throughout the 2010 and 2012 tournaments
The 2008 Spanish Euros side is the only one in the last 20 years that I don't think has been criticised through the tournament that they won. International Football is just different to Club Football - you don't have the time to build creative, attacking sides, and defences typically win out. Not to mention that Southgate appears to be a superb man manager, and I think has been tactically excellent through the tournament.
Fair play to the Caf, opting for a red and white colour scheme to support the lads.
ICH.
ICH.
Bet he still won't pick Grealish
@NewGlory happy 10th birthday.
I’ve just seen this reply. For what it’s worth Shaw has been excellent for the last 18 months, and rightly has the LB position for Utd and England absolutely nailed on. I’d argue that he had 4 or 5 years previous to that where he wasn’t worth what at the time was a huge fee for a teenage defender (the highest ever wasn’t he?)
The only match I’ve seen him live was Chelsea-Utd just before the first lockdown, you won 2-0 I think. He was playing on the left of a back 3 with that scrawny guy playing left wingback. I remember noticing that he contributed more going forward from an arguably more defensive position than the actual full back. He was also about twice as broad (in a good way).
But I get why people take his performances with a pinch of salt as he’s not consistently reached that level.
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I am not really a massive Shaw fan and I have been critical of him in the past. Defensively he does have a tendency to get caught ball-watching and that has led to teams getting behind us more often than they should. I just thought that he should be given his due when he plays well, and he did, and he has done until now in this tournament.
There's no doubt that Shaw has quality as a footballer and that's mainly due to his ability to carry the ball, to overlap, and be direct. He's also strong in the tackle and can handle himself physically. It's just his positioning that occasionally lets him down and he's got to be careful of that versus Italy more than ever.
I do still think the jury is out on him as an international footballer but like you say he's made some clear improvements to his game of late. He's definitely less of a liability now even in terms of his positioning.
Did brilliant in spite of that coward. Need a proper manager in now.
Still feeling righteous? Southgate single-handedly squandered Euro title for England, first by keeping Grealish and Sancho on the bench - something no sane manager would do. And then setting up absolute worst penalty lineup you could possibly imagine. Both Rashy and Sancho he brought in for penalties missed. And we all knew Rashy is a bad penalty taker, how did he not know this?
Oh well.
Southgate got it so horribly wrong after the 90 minutes. That ET was there to be won and attacked, we didn't.
You know what? I don't even feel that bad. We got outplayed, sadly. So I can't be too down. Oh I wish Southgate would get the boot (yeah, I know). Played so negative all Euro's.
How about playing to our strengths?, for once. I said this at the start of the tournament, but why couldn't we be the ones that played on the front foot? We played like a small nation, today.
How about playing to our strengths?, for once. I said this at the start of the tournament, but why couldn't we be the ones that played on the front foot? We played like a small nation, today.
I want to see Grealish in the starting line up from now on.
Got flamed when I called him a coward before. That's exactly what he is. Wasting a generation of talent. Delighted that he got found out at the big stage.
Weirdly feel quite unemotional by this. This is what we're used to. I'm disappointed by how its ended and how little attacking focus we showed though, it was predictably negative.
Southgate should take the blame. He had the most expensive team by far, strongest bench and he squandered it all, because he is a stupid coward. Unfortunately, he will instead claim credit for reaching. the finals and will still try to come out of this as a hero. And will probably succeed because FA are a bunch of assholes, as well.
+1
Got it wrong long before ET. His line-up was, again, a joke, and our approach - especially in the 2nd half - was pathetic.
The fact that he prefers Mount to Grealish and Saka to Sancho tells you everything.
Southgate should resign. You give a manager like Mancini this England squad and they win this match comfortably, playing proper attacking football.
At Russia 2018 and this Euros we had very gentle draws. Yet we have nothing to show for it.
Two tournaments running we have taken 1-0 leads in key games: First, Croatia at Russia 2018. Second, tonight. Yet we have nothing to show for it.
I was hoping to be proven wrong about Southgate. I was hoping to come on here and see someone quote all my posts slagging him off. Sadly, every doubt I have about him was in evidence tonight.
I don't think we will keep getting lucky in the draws. It's very likely if we'd had Italy's route to the final Belgium or Spain would have put us to the sword. So what happens when our luck runs out and we have to face top teams at their top level?
Southgate is just the Wizard behind the curtain. Only fortune has stopped him being exposed.
Two tournaments running we have taken 1-0 leads in key games: First, Croatia at Russia 2018. Second, tonight. Yet we have nothing to show for it.
I was hoping to be proven wrong about Southgate. I was hoping to come on here and see someone quote all my posts slagging him off. Sadly, every doubt I have about him was in evidence tonight.
I don't think we will keep getting lucky in the draws. It's very likely if we'd had Italy's route to the final Belgium or Spain would have put us to the sword. So what happens when our luck runs out and we have to face top teams at their top level?
Southgate is just the Wizard behind the curtain. Only fortune has stopped him being exposed.
The frustrating thing is this time I feel like we have the tools to go toe to toe with the top sides but not with him in charge.
I hate to admit it but I’d love to have Rodgers replace him.
Genuinely gutted.
Wait isn't he Irish?
He'd do a brilliant job with this squad.
Said it years ago, I'm so worried this generation will be wasted.
Just never have hope, like I do. It's hope that kills...
From the start of the 2nd half till Italy's equalizer England did nothing. If you're gonna play on the counter then every once in a while you have to actually, you know, try a counter attack.