Also when he’s been fit he hasn’t pushed for a move to play his football elsewhere like Smalling did when he knew he wasn’t going to get game time.
Phil Jones | released summer 2023
- Thread starter Adisa
- Start date
- Status
One fact I can’t quite get my head around is that he went to the last World Cup, and actually played. I assumed his last cap would’ve been in like 2014 or something.
Have you spent long as his therapist?
Phil Jones is like a reverse Gaitan/Sneijder... we're all waiting for a deal to get done, yet nothing happens. May'be we need to reach a certain amount of pages?
just observing from the outside. If Luke Shaw can’t inspire him to reach consistent high standards then no one can.
He seems like quite a solid character to me, just riddled with injuries then lack sharpness when he rarely plays. He has always performed well when he has had a run of games to get up to speed.
2 seperate things here though.
1) I agree he's injury prone and the contract was a gamble. But I wouldn't have said it was wrong at the time because like i said, for me, he was still better than Smalling, Bailly and Lindelof when he did play... His subsequent injuries which have been worse than any other point of his career has retrospectively shown it to be a gamble that didn't work, nothing more, nothing less.
2) And why would anyone think a Caf general consensus would be a good indication of right and wrong footballing matters? Or any fan forum for that matter. Nah I'm not having that one tbh.
But like I said, I like him and wish him all the best whatever happens from this point.
We don’t know the inside story so about we stop tossing around sayings like stealing a living?
No he’s a scapegoat for the last seven years in your eyes. That’s a huge difference
Football has evolved in such a way that makes old fashioned defenders like Jones less desirable. Players who constantly dive into tackles are often punished with red cards and penalties against them. I think that's quite positive as it protects forwards, the flow of the game and tbh the defenders themselves. Jones himself is a living testament of how damaging that style of game can be. There are safer and quite frankly more effective ways how to counter a forward then that.
My English is not perfect so I need some help in here. How would you call a player who keeps getting contract extensions despite clearly not deserving it?
You’re assuming that because he’s injured he’s a bad influence.
I choose to assume that he is capable of giving advice and sticking his arm around a youngster when they are going through a bad patch. It makes more sense that what you’re saying
That is his choice? Surely it’s the clubs choice, the coaches, the medical staff, the directors. I’d assume they are in a better position to judge
I assume that having a player who keeps getting a salary despite having underperformed at the club for years is not good for the club. Regarding your comment, well, we've already have many former players that can easily do that. That on top of other former players in all but name such as Matic, Mata and Grant. How many cheer leaders do our players need to keep them going through a bad patch?
The current side has a huge squad, a huge wage bill and so little to justify all that. Some think that we should get rid of the deadwood and some do not which is fair enough. However those who do not shouldn't be complaining next time the club says that we can't sign this or that player unless we offload some of our current players.
I think its the choice of everyone involved include those who had foolishly giving him that silly contract and himself who signed it despite the fact that he's nowhere near to a United level player anymore. United had been poorly run for quite some time now. This is yet another example of that to add to a nearly endless list.
Last edited:
To deny your employee the right to come to work? Yes that is absolutely illegal. The poster you're replying to is unfortunately not arguing in good faith, nor is he factual.
Look it’s not our choice, not yours. Not mine.
I take exception to people saying stuff like stealing a living when they don’t have all the facts. The lad has done nothing to warrant any off it. His only “crime” is being unfortunate with injuries.
stop trying to justify sacking him illegally. It’s not going to happen.
Actually think Jones is a pro active, front footed defender, who steps into midfield with the ball at his feet so his style is defintely not an 'old fashioned' defender.
Also I have never bought into the idea that the way he plays is the reason for his body failing him. It's just the way he's made unfortunately.
I don't think anyone I have seen on here has ever made the argument that United should keep Mata, Lingard, Jones, Grant, Matic etc.
I think some people have an issue with posters being overly vocal in wanting specific people out while obviously not knowing the individual details of each situation (because no one does outside of the club).
If Jones does go then no one is going to bemoan the fact, but it would absolutely grate on me the inevitable 'good riddance' talk.
When it comes to an injured player I think id rather trust the clubs opinion. No one is going to buy someone that is currently injured.
by the way, neither mata or Grant play defence so why do they negate my point? You’re saying Jones is a bad influence around the kids. On what evidence apart from a lot of your imagination?
I never suggested otherwise. If you read the initial post I clearly said what would I do if I was Ole which clearly I am not. Now if I was Woodward (which I am neither) then I would have paid off his contract and I would have shown him the door. After that I would either resign soon afterwards or I would have sacked the idiot who gave him that contract.
Again you’re saying the “idiot who gave him the contract”. United doctors may have had different information at the time, maybe he’s had a setback since? It’s not as black and white as you think
Well you're entitled to your opinion, although I respectfully disagree with it. I think that Jones's swashbuckling style is the reason why he initially got injured so much although I believe that nowadays its his body
Forums exist because we love to discuss football. Unfortunately there's plenty of grey areas and speculation in doing so. If we stick to just facts then we might as well close forums down and limit ourselves in listening and believing what MUTV and the official website says. All I can say is that United seem not to have been running well for quite some time. The 'Jones contract extension' saga is just one of the many examples that support that. We might also include to that list Bastian's and Sanchez's signing, us giving Moyes a 6 year contract and us extending LVG's and Mou's contracts only to sack them few months later.
That's fair enough although it would be quite surprising. I can't think of many United supporters who seriously believed that Jones will return to his former self back then. Even the very optimist of them all thought that the long contract given to him was a bit silly.
He wasn't in the first team plans regardless at that point and had suffered regular injuries for years. Averaging 17 league appearances for the preceding 4 seasons.
So we gave a £100k/week new deal to a defender the manager didn't rate and who we already knew couldn't manage to play in even half the games in a season due to constant injuries.
He played 18 times in the premier league 18/19 season according to the Premier League website...
When he was fit, he was definitely a consideration and was definitely in their plans. To suggest otherwise is random. To suggest a manager doesn't rate a player when they consistently play that same player when available again is random.
How reliable are these websites?
Very fortunate.
Pretty sure that's called getting the sack.
that's one way to put it.
Pretty sure his contract was never extended. He was hired on a 3 year deal and sacked after 2.
You generally need a legal reason to sack someone.
It's the implication that he's some rotten apple for getting new contracts and being injured
Neither of those things are within his control, unless you are proposing he has an attitude problem for signing contracts which have been offered to him?If you're talking about his quality as a player that's a different story but that still doesn't warrant the treatment you're proposing.
Jones has signed three contracts at United. The first was when he signed in 2011. The second was in 2015, after averaging 24 league matches in the previous four seasons, which is a very respectable amount for a player who had only turned 23 when he signed it. Here's Louis van Gaal talking about it, at the time:
The third and most recent contract was in February 2019, after averaging 17 league matches in the previous four seasons, and a little over six months after making appearances for England in the 2018 World Cup. That's pretty much half of the league matches during that period, and also bear in mind that just because he didn't make an appearance, it doesn't mean he was injured. He was also an unused substitute and simply not selected for certain matchday squads during that time, which happens to quite a lot of players, seeing as only 11 can be on the field at any one time. Here's Ole Gunnar Solskjaer talking about it:
Why would the club let a player who had averaged over 20 league matches a season and who'd represented his country at a World Cup the summer previous leave on a free transfer? Someone who was happy to play a squad role, who could play in a variety of positions, and who, if sold, would command a reasonable transfer fee? If anything, it would have been daft of the club not to have offered him the contract he signed in 2019. And there was absolutely no reason for Jones not to have signed it when it was put in front of him.
Now I'm obviously not speaking about a wealthy professional footballer under contract here when I say the vast majority of the people in the UK who get sacked just don't turn up to that place of work anymore. And I doubt many go and consult a solicitor to explore if their sacking was legal.
I wonder what level he's actually at now, having gone so many seasons without game time. But a fit Phil Jones at the level he once was (or even better: anywhere close to a normal trajectory from experience) would've been a fantastic option to have. If I'm not mistaken, I sort of remember him looking good as a DM on a couple of occasions as well - which is something this squad badly needs, even if just as a backup.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/phil-jones-future.444905/
Just read the first 5 pages of that thread and see why the vast majority were against his most recent contract extension.
Because he was regularly involved either in the team or on the bench. It was only in 19-20 where he was exclusively on the bench. If he'd not gotten injured he might have wanted to leave in the 2020 summer window.
Isnt Jones the only player in the squad from the Fergie era? That's a good enough reason to have him around, if you ask me. That's an experience you can't buy in the market.
Till we get back to our dominant self of yesteryear having him around can't be a bad thing. Though I, myself, do indulge in making fun of his presence but it's just banter. More positives to having him around than negatives. @Devillish
Till we get back to our dominant self of yesteryear having him around can't be a bad thing. Though I, myself, do indulge in making fun of his presence but it's just banter. More positives to having him around than negatives. @Devillish
- Status