Should we give up on Anthony Martial?

markhughes

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He isn't close to being good enough, as nobody will buy him due to his performances and his current wage demands, I think all we can do is use him as a backup or loan him out if we can find a suitor.

Anyone who still believes he will turn it around at this point must be off their meds.
 

MasterCode

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We at United are what ruined him if we are honest. One minute we wanted him to be a more Ighalo type St then we wanted him to move like Cavani.

Personally the fixation on having a "No 9" is what has to go. United currently play better with a team goal approach as opposed to this "messiah box 9" play. Traditionally this was also the case Saha Rooney was one of my favourite time periods.

Martial 24 goal season came through a lot of collaboration on the left with Rashford fluid switching, combo play and speed. (He actually hasn't played consistently with Rashford since then)
We didn't really have a recognised CF in those patterns of play it just flowed nicely.

In fact our forwards against Leeds, it was more of the same I couldn't really say Mason played the Box no 9 role. Problem with fans is they want what they see at other teams rather than appreciating what they have. So the pressure to have this prolific box 9, but hated Lukaku, now to only want another kinda Lukaku, it's just weird.

If Martial wants to be a success here he is going to have to play "his" game (drift, run at players, combo play, etc) and stop trying to be a "Cavani or Box 9". If that's how he wants to continue playing then I will have to wish him the best and we should sign someone who can actually do that role. But like the legendary Andy Cole said last week, "why the hell would you want that role now, you get more being a forward player". But if he gets back to playing and being him I'm all here for it, currently don't think he should be starting.

The whole 'box striker' thing we gotta recognise we play better without it, I would just like one on the bench and start the odd game here and there, (like what we have with Cavani) unless it's posssibly a Haaland doesn't no-one else really intrigues me.

What truly worries me is if we play Mason in the box striker no 9 role, and he goes through a goal drought or something; what some of the cretins in our fanbase will do to him.

I really hope Ole don't make the mistake of doing that to the boy.
 

Threesus

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People here were so mad at scholes for not rating Martial as a striker, giving him a lot of smoke. Looks like the guy who played with players like cole, Yorke, RVN, RVP etc knows a thing or 2 about strikers.

He has never been the one to do everything to score a goal, but his dribbling, his link up play have taken a huge downturn these last 12 months. In hindsight, looks like Ole made the wrong choice to keep Martial and sell Lukaku.
 

Plant0x84

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We at United are what ruined him if we are honest. One minute we wanted him to be a more Ighalo type St then we wanted him to move like Cavani.

Personally the fixation on having a "No 9" is what has to go. United currently play better with a team goal approach as opposed to this "messiah box 9" play. Traditionally this was also the case Saha Rooney was one of my favourite time periods.

Martial 24 goal season came through a lot of collaboration on the left with Rashford fluid switching, combo play and speed. (He actually hasn't played consistently with Rashford since then)
We didn't really have a recognised CF in those patterns of play it just flowed nicely.

In fact our forwards against Leeds, it was more of the same I couldn't really say Mason played the Box no 9 role. Problem with fans is they want what they see at other teams rather than appreciating what they have. So the pressure to have this prolific box 9, but hated Lukaku, now to only want another kinda Lukaku, it's just weird.

If Martial wants to be a success here he is going to have to play "his" game (drift, run at players, combo play, etc) and stop trying to be a "Cavani or Box 9". If that's how he wants to continue playing then I will have to wish him the best and we should sign someone who can actually do that role. But like the legendary Andy Cole said last week, "why the hell would you want that role now, you get more being a forward player". But if he gets back to playing and being him I'm all here for it, currently don't think he should be starting.

The whole 'box striker' thing we gotta recognise we play better without it, I would just like one on the bench and start the odd game here and there, (like what we have with Cavani) unless it's posssibly a Haaland doesn't no-one else really intrigues me.

What truly worries me is if we play Mason in the box striker no 9 role, and he goes through a goal drought or something; what some of the cretins in our fanbase will do to him.

I really hope Ole don't make the mistake of doing that to the boy.
Good post, and an interesting take. I think a lot of the talk of Antho being a 9 in the traditional sense seems media driven, reports from the player himself wanting to be the main man not just a left winger. I would agree with the players we have the front 3 could be very fluid and move across the pitch freely, but that then questions the sense of signing a Haaland type as we would have to change our style of play once more.
AM can hold the ball well and link with runners centrally but has a tendency to drift left so he encroaches on the left players space, and leaves an empty box for the fullback to cross into and we lose possession this way a lot.
 

hobbers

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His movement is laughable, he doesn't understand the very basics of positioning or making runs, and his work rate is pathetic.

And that was all true before his catastrophic drop in form. :lol:

We ruined any chance of a decent Premier League-level winger developing from him when we gave him a contract 5x his worth.
 

Denis79

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He will have so so many creative players around him this season. If he doesn't make it now, he never will.
 

croadyman

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People here were so mad at scholes for not rating Martial as a striker, giving him a lot of smoke. Looks like the guy who played with players like cole, Yorke, RVN, RVP etc knows a thing or 2 about strikers.

He has never been the one to do everything to score a goal, but his dribbling, his link up play have taken a huge downturn these last 12 months. In hindsight, looks like Ole made the wrong choice to keep Martial and sell Lukaku.
Yeah shame he knows pretty much feck all about coaching
 

Kopral Jono

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Who's going to pay money for him and afford to match his contract with us?
It'll be either that he leaves come the end of this season or he'll do a Jones/Rojo and waste everyone's time by staying. The latter is also a very likely outcome given how uninterested he looks when it comes to football in general.
 

Sayros

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He will have so so many creative players around him this season. If he doesn't make it now, he never will.
This. If the team finds its creativty (looking at Sancho getting fit and adapted), and he doesn't find a way to shine, then he's hopeless at that point, but the problem again will always be his contract will make it close to impossible to move, especially with his continued poor performances. Ole has no choice but to put faith in him to contribute, and the fans should as well.
 
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Great talent. Ole has done everything to reverse the damage done by Mourinho, look at Shaw now fulfilling his potential as one of the best fb’s in Europe. Sadly Martial hasn’t been doing it on a regular basis.
 

Ali Dia

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Yes, get him out as quickly as possible, I think he's a good player on his day but this season i think James will score more than him and I'm not expecting James to score many.
James would have offered a lot more today. Martial would have had the exact same kind of game as he did today against Leeds if he’d played and it would have been like playing with 10 men. You need direct pressure and to work your man all game, win frees, soften them up, get them booked, force a mistake. Martial does feck all of that. We had too much flair and not enough guts and endeavour today
 
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MasterCode

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Good post, and an interesting take. I think a lot of the talk of Antho being a 9 in the traditional sense seems media driven, reports from the player himself wanting to be the main man not just a left winger. I would agree with the players we have the front 3 could be very fluid and move across the pitch freely, but that then questions the sense of signing a Haaland type as we would have to change our style of play once more.
AM can hold the ball well and link with runners centrally but has a tendency to drift left so he encroaches on the left players space, and leaves an empty box for the fullback to cross into and we lose possession this way a lot.
Absoloutely agree with your point about what he said he is trying to become. It's personal responsibility for Martial to admit he's a player who likes to be on the ball and abandon this Box 9 obsession. He has to make his own mind up to realise he ain't going to be succesful playing that way.

Rashford was faced with a similar decision few seasons back he was doing interviews saying he see's himself as a ST (this was when everyone was liking him to R9 early on and he was wearing the R9 boots). It became more apparent as he developed that the position weren't for him, he now gives a very different answer.

Our fanbase gets tricked by the media in my opinion the easiest. The media told them "Lukaku isn't good" they hated him. Now they want a player like Lukaku. The media now tells them "United need a Box 9" it's a now a new hole we need to address. "Pogba is rubbish", they now hate him, Pogba leaves "we need more creativity" (mark my words this will happen). But the players fall for it too and I believe Martial hinting through the media he wanted to be a more traditional was probably him trying to play to his fan service. Critical and independent thinking has left a lot of people - I think a lot of the fanbase is slow and quite gullible. (Personally I watch most games on mute)

Love Cavani would love to keep another season beyond this, but if I had to pick Cavani last season, or Martial when he was a fluid forward-player the season before. I pick the latter everytime that breakthrough season including Greenwood was some of the most scintillating forward play I've seen in a long time from the trio all our forwards scored goals then not just the one CF (front three alone ended the season with 60 odd in total) .

Personally I don't want a box striker we play so much better upfront when everyones moving. Only one I'd accept would be a Haaland but like you said we'd play so different if we got him, however, Haaland has a lot to his game would be interesting to see how that translates to the PL.

When Martial goes out left you're right he occupies space there but some of the one twos we have produced out there has engineered some fabolous goals and combinations. With Shaw Pogba Marcus all assisting or scoring. The space created in the middle by such movement ideally would be for Bruno or a Greenwood to attack. If you observed the Leeds game when Greenwood drifted and created space, Bruno looked like he was playing CF at times he timed his runs and attacked the space very well.
If Martial was to create space cause he drifted left while playing CF and was hanging there, the whole point of it being 'fluid' is for anybody else to exploit the central space in their own way.
 

kafta

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Its such a shame. So much raw talent when he first arrived, i had lots of hopes for him.

But for whatever reason, he hasn't pushed on at all, and to be honest, i dont trust him to come good. Even his dribbling has gone backward.

I hope we can move him on next season, and maybe he can reboot his career somewhere else.
 

yamo123x

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Started to feel sorry for Martial now.

Obviously lost his way, looks unfit, and his confidence is shot.

He needs a loan. Let's give Elanga an opportunity
 

rk4utd

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Was so excited when he arrived - his goal vs Everton in the semi final was indicative of his potential - and I remember saying at the time that it was worth the pain of the van gaal era as at least we had the signing of martial to show for it. What I can’t fathom is why our management don’t seem to be able to get him to consistently put in ‘a shift’ when not playing well - yesterday, his attempts to press when not in possession were typically half hearted - Bruno had a poor game by his standards too - but he still tried to make something happen when not in possession. I have almost given up hope now - unfortunately Anthony gives that impression too….what a shame - could have been legend with the talent he obviously has/had.
 

Von Mistelroum

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Some players do seem to devolve. You see those who seemed like potential world beaters who end up playing in some obscure league and wonder what happened. I think if we hadn’t kept giving him chances and contracts that’s what would have happened here. He’s not a good player at all anymore.
 

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I’m ready to see us move on, I was hoping those rumors of Inter looking to but were true. Of course we’d need a replacement but I’d be excited to see some new blood. And maybe someone more excited to play football.
 

LuisNaniencia

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His movement is laughable, he doesn't understand the very basics of positioning or making runs, and his work rate is pathetic.

And that was all true before his catastrophic drop in form. :lol:

We ruined any chance of a decent Premier League-level winger developing from him when we gave him a contract 5x his worth.
There was a moment in the first half when Bruno crossed it first time from the right. Any sort of anticipation (wish Cavani was in there), and it could have been a great chance. Martial was completely static at the back post, literally didn't anticipate the cross at all. It's like he'd never played with Bruno, because anyone who has seen him knew that ball was coming in.

He's an okay player off the left, albeit inconsistent, but a terrible striker.
 

abailey123

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He’s just not dynamic enough. He wants the ball to feet too much and doesn’t come looking for it. Look at Greenwood against Leeds, dropping deep allowing players to run beyond him. If Martials going to be part of the squad it’s going to have to be as back up left winger as Cavani and Greenwood are both surely ahead of him up top.
 

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Yes, he should be sold on now. He's had enough chances and just doesn't give enough for us.
 

Borys

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I would sell him now and just loan a striker for a year. I don't believe he can turn this around. He looks a shadow of himself, I have no idea what happened to him.
 

crossy1686

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I've been banging the 'he's not good enough' drum since Jose's last season, but new season, fresh start and all that, I'll always give our players the benefit of the doubt and the chance to turn it around if they want to be here.

It's his first proper game of the season so I don't want to be too harsh but my fecking word his movement is as poor as it gets and he offers zero outlet. He'll get dropped as soon as Cavani is fit and Greenwood looks much sharper as our stand in CF than Martial has. If he can't regain something resembling the much converted season people like to go on about on here then we all know what will happen come the end of the season.
 

djembatheking

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Giving him games to find fitness and form will cost us points , we just can't carry him anymore.
 

RUCK4444

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If he can’t put in a decent shift, I’m not talking about goals, just the basics of hard work and endeavour In that game yesterday off the back of a shocking last season (I mean woefully bad) and amongst us signing new players then when will he?

If ever a player had a perfect chance to prove himself, but no, the usual half arsed performance, anonymous for the vast majority, no decent runs or movement, just wants the ball to feet and does nothing with it.

I don’t care what anybody says, Dan James offers more through being a willing runner and a danger to the opposition whilst being reliable defensively. Martial is lazy and has been for a long time, you cannot carry players like that.

Time to move on, best for him as well as us.
 

DeGea

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Yes his time is up.

I do not see any clues that will convince me that he will be able to turn this around. Sometimes you see a player going through a rough patch but they are at least chasing stuff, closing down, trying. You don't even see this from Martial, hence why his time is up. He himself knows it deep down I bet.
 

Wade3

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I'll wait the first 10 - 15 games and see how he performs until then. He had an injury/suspension riddled season last year and is just getting going this year. Rhythm is important, as it is for most players, so I'll let him find his and then evaluate him.
 

therealtboy

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Sell him now and give that playing time to Elanga. It's that simple, I've never seen a player with so much natural ability not put in the effort to maximise it. Even when faced with competition for his place he still isn't pushing himself. Ordinarily I'd put this down to a lack of match fitness but we've been here with Martial before and it's becoming a trend, I think we should get what we can for him. Elanga is more than ready to replace him and Amad too. They can't play any worse and at least there's upside to them.
 

EdinburghDevil

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There is no doubting he is a talented player, but I think a move is best for both club and player. A bit like the Lingard situation, he'll do well at his next club.

I'd rather rotate Rashford, Sancho, Pogba and Greenwood in the wide positions and allow Elanga to get some more minutes too.

Cavani and Greenwood offer more at 9 and a ST is top priority in the summer next year. The club should have already started planning for that.
 

Edgardos84

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I am afraid, he will be played the same way like last season. Somehow, Ole has plan to play players off form to get them in shape. Will take him 10-15 games to realize, the form is not coming back, too many points lost. I like Anthony, but only from left wing. Not as a CF. I am afraid, his time is up. Unfortunately, who will pay him?
 

OnlyTwoDaSilvas

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He strikes me as the type of guy who will say, at the end of his career, that he didn't really like football. It certainly seems that way when he plays. Unless he has the ball at his feet, you get nothing from him. He doesn't make the kind of runs a centre forward should. He rarely occupies the correct spaces, his pressing, desire and sense of danger are all non-existent. But then he'll have a spurt of good form for about 5 or 6 weeks, where he starts doing some or all of the things expected of him, just for a little bit.

He reminds me of Balotelli, without all the stupid shit he did off the pitch. There's definitely untapped talent in there, and Martial has shown it a bit more than Balotelli did, but I don't think any manager is getting it all out of him.
 

dinostar77

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He doesnt have the hunger, desire or determination that he needs to become a top PL player, never mind the levels above that. Just a waste of talent. Parting of ways asap.

Anyone who defends him has got used to the bar being lowered post fergie. Standards have dropped massively if a lethagic, unmotivated player like him gets to start for Utd.
 

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Not sure who'd buy him really.

It's another situation where we've given mental wages that no other club would pay for a player of Martial's standard, so it'll probably be endless loans while his contract runs down.
 

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He isn't close to being good enough, as nobody will buy him due to his performances and his current wage demands, I think all we can do is use him as a backup or loan him out if we can find a suitor.

Anyone who still believes he will turn it around at this point must be off their meds.
There were rumors Inter was interested, I would have bit their hand off to take him considering the contract we gave him, he has not long-term value other than a squad player and his wages and attitude do not lend well to that.
 

Bebestation

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The thing i worry about him is that i worry that his 23 goal season was more due to the opposition team not adapting to a Bruno fernandes inclusive Manchester United.

It felt like teams attacked us more (due to our lack of creative capabilities prior to Bruno) and because of that we had much more counter attacking chances and time whenever they would attack us.

It felt that after Bruno's wonderful start after his January transfer - teams became more solid block and defensive vs us. This stopped the need for Martials back to goal ability, his interchanging passing ability or even his dribbling ability - because it wouldnt help against solid block teams.

I think we saw how leeds played vs us - compared to how southampton played more low block defensive vs us.