Was selling Jaap Stam Fergie's biggest mistake?

[padzilla]

I mean we had just signed Van Nistelrooy and Veron and then weeks later took a torpedo to our defence.
We had just won three league titles in a row, with Stam as the bedrock, would we have won four maybe five in a row and created a Bayern Munich like dominance of English football?
Not that we weren't in the ascendency anyway. Would we have even bought Ferdinand - or did Fergie see which way the wind was blowing with Stam, regarding the use of banned substances at Milan, and got him out just in time?
Also the signing of Laurent Blanc, as replacement, reminds me a little of us signing Ronaldo, an absolute giant of the game who was a little off the pace when he was first signed and used week in, week out creating all kinds of other issues - much better used as a squad player in the end.

 

[Annihilate Now!]

No, it was retiring

 

[MattJ166]

Retiring and appointing David Moyes was his biggest mistake. Can't really argue that Stam was his biggest mistake when he then went on to dominate English football after a small blip

 

[KingCavani]

Allowing the Glazers to take a back seat in the transfer market was by far his biggest mistake and we’ve been paying for it for a decade.

 

[padzilla]

Allowing the Glazers to take a back seat in the transfer market was by far his biggest mistake and we’ve been paying for it for a decade.

There's a question if Fergie was complicit with the Glazers destroying the club after accepting their reduction in standards in exchange for him being more or less answerable to nobody in the running of the team.

 

[KingCavani]

There's a question if Fergie was complicit with the Glazers destroying the club after accepting their reduction in standards in exchange for him being more or less answerable to nobody in the running of the team.

A bit of both. He definitely would have been aware that they wanted to invest as little as possible so he accepted the reduction in standards in that sense.

But he still has a squad filled with world class talent even if they were aging so he knew he could get by and compete for titles. I don't think he would have allowed the squad to reach that point had he been younger and planning another decade with the team. I don't think Moyes was the guy but he never stood a chance. That squad was dead.

United were more than capable of spending with City but we let them sign Toure, Aguero, Silva etc. almost unopposed. We did compete for Tevez but didn't do enough to keep him which I think was a mistake as well.

 

[padzilla]

A bit of both. He definitely would have been aware that they wanted to invest as little as possible so he accepted the reduction in standards in that sense.

But he still has a squad filled with world class talent even if they were aging so he knew he could get by and compete for titles. I don't think he would have allowed the squad to reach that point had he been younger and planning another decade with the team. I don't think Moyes was the guy but he never stood a chance. That squad was dead.

United were more than capable of spending with City but we let them sign Toure, Aguero, Silva etc. almost unopposed. We did compete for Tevez but didn't do enough to keep him which I think was a mistake as well.

Absolutely agree, there was almost an arrogance to us that allowed City to catch up and almost overtake us by the time Fergie was done.
Selling Ronaldo for a world record fee, which obviously went on the debt, and scrimping on the signings that summer was a huge blow that obliterated any gap between us and the likes of Chelsea and City.
Fergie should have been screaming for the board to get its act together and bring in world class replacements for Ronaldo and keep Tevez.

 

[Ixion]

Yes it was. Retiring, appointing Moyes etc are silly answers.

 

[Revaulx]

Anderson
Nani
Berbatov

These weren’t “value” signings.

The Glazers’ tightness in their early years certainly didn’t help, but that wasn’t the only factor. Maybe SAFs judgement, or his confidence in his own judgement, was on the wane?

 

[Foxbatt]

No suggesting Moyes was his biggest mistake.

 

[Foxbatt]

Anderson
Nani
Berbatov

These weren’t “value” signings.

The Glazers’ tightness in their early years certainly didn’t help, but that wasn’t the only factor. Maybe SAFs judgement, or his confidence in his own judgement, was on the wane?

They got him trophies. Suggesting Moyes has been a huge disaster.

 

[Hound Dog]

Allowing the Glazers to take a back seat in the transfer market was by far his biggest mistake and we’ve been paying for it for a decade.

I am not really sure that he had a choice in it. If anything, I think it was incredible that he managed to squeeze a few more titles out of the club.

For me, United stopped being an European powerhouse in the summer of 2009. You lose Ronaldo and replace him with Valencia, Obertan and a crocked Owen. Not the way top top clubs operate.

 

[MUFC OK]

Anderson
Nani
Berbatov

These weren’t “value” signings.

The Glazers’ tightness in their early years certainly didn’t help, but that wasn’t the only factor. Maybe SAFs judgement, or his confidence in his own judgement, was on the wane?

They all had decent careers at United.

summer 2009 - losing Ronaldo and Tevez, along with the Moyes appointment were his biggest mistakes.

 

[Red the Bear]

He had many, expected of such a long and glittering career. Selling Ronaldo, not replacing big pete , buying veron, not playing negatively when we had to etc etc

I won't even rank the stam one in top 3 I felt the gk situation did us much more harm

 

[harms]

Retiring surely isn’t a mistake. He had worked for so long and he deserves the time off with his family (and, seeing the post-retirement news about his health* maybe, from a personal point of view, not retiring earlier was actually a mistake).

* just wanted to clarify that there isn’t any recent significant news, don’t be alarmed.

Not planning it ahead was a poor decision though. Moyes was like 6th choice for the position but the change of guard was done is a such hilariously bad manner that we’ve missed out on most of our main targets before settling for a guy who Fergie could’ve called with the news not even formulated as a question. He simply informed him that he’s the next Man Utd manager, leaving him no room for argument.

Pep infamously didn’t even realize that he was offering him a job… Klopp would’ve been an ideal replacement though, if only they’ve managed to secure him in time.

The biggest mistake was the whole Rock of Gibraltar dispute that eventually led to Glazer’s takeover though

As for the purely managerial feck ups… Stam is certainly one of those. Not replacing Ronaldo properly is another — yeah, we would’ve never beaten Pep’s Barca, but we should’ve established ourselves as the second power in Europe for at least half a decade… as it stands now, we’ve almost reached that level before eventually coming up short, with Real Madrid and Bayern Münich overcoming us.

 

[James Peril]

Laurent Blanc was hardly a giant of the game, he was a pensioner who came here as a experienced reserve. Ronaldo is still one of the best goalscorers in the world. Stam was controversial and Ferguson got rid, like he did with a lot of players during his reign. Everything comes to an end, no guarantee Stam would have been as good for the next 2-3 seasons. Besides, it’s not like one player decides if we become FC Bayern or not - other clubs develop and catch on, it’s only natural.

Ferguson’s biggest mistake was interfering with who takes over, hiring Moyes was a huge mistake and the red flags were plenty. You can hire a fall-guy or someone on a short contract, but you can never replace charisma with Moyes on a 6 year deal. Incredibly stupid.

 

[Sviken]

Hiring Moyes. It basically created this mess we're in

 

[Revaulx]

They got him trophies. Suggesting Moyes has been a huge disaster.

They did, but there were clearly issues with Anderson’s professionalism which SAF maybe should have spotted, and Berbatov (who I loved) never seemed to quite fit. Hargreaves can be questioned too; his injury proneness was already a thing while he was still at Bayern.

Regardless of all that, all this lot cost a serious amount of money; the Glazers weren’t that tight, despite not enough being spent to compete with the oil clubs. In comparison: apart from Ian Ure, who was utter crap, Louis Edwards signed no first team players AT ALL between Morgan in summer 1968 and Buchan in Spring 1972.

Regarding Moyes, yes he was a poor choice but it should never have been left to the incumbent manager to choose his successor. The fact that Moyes (rightly or wrongly) got rid of SAF’s back room staff when the latter was fully expecting him to keep them was an indication of the lack of attention to detail the whole process suffered from.

Plus it’s been nearly eight years since Moyes was sacked. Surely enough time has passed for those in charge to have learned from those mistakes long before now?

 

[vangagal]

Moyes was by far SAF biggest mistake. Stam was just normal transfer situation like Beckham was. The only thing regretable about it was we should get higher transfer fee from him. 16m was so cheap for his quality.

 

[Oranges038]

Stam had to go for financial reasons.

I might be wrong here, but I read that him, Keane and someone else who's name escapes me, were in a meeting after RVN signed and one of them jokingly asked, "Which one of us is goung to be sold then?" Or something to to that effect, because they knew the books had to be balanced.

As it turned out Ferguson had pretty much already decided he was going to let him go, Utd got a good offer for him that helped budget wise, he was seen as being expendable because he had just returned from an achilles injury and there were doubts about his ability to retain his full level of fitness.

Definitely a mistake, but it was more financial reasons over football reasons that did it.

 

[KingCavani]

I am not really sure that he had a choice in it. If anything, I think it was incredible that he managed to squeeze a few more titles out of the club.

For me, United stopped being an European powerhouse in the summer of 2009. You lose Ronaldo and replace him with Valencia, Obertan and a crocked Owen. Not the way top top clubs operate.

If Ferguson had dissented at all the Glazers would have relented and given him funds - It's not like they could sack him. He was clearly doing their PR work for them during that stage to keep everything steady and I think that caused way more harm than good.

 

[Jeppers7]

I always felt the Stam one was huge because it felt like the rest of the league went from giving up to feeling like we had a weakness overnight. I remember Newcastle players coming out saying they were looking forward to having a go at Blanc and him being exposed. Seemed like the one time we could’ve really blew everyone out of the water, we shot ourselves in the foot. That season was a disaster overall.

 

[Jeppers7]

Stam had to go for financial reasons.

I might be wrong here, but I read that him, Keane and someone else who's name escapes me, were in a meeting after RVN signed and one of them jokingly asked, "Which one of us is goung to be sold then?" Or something to to that effect, because they knew the books had to be balanced.

As it turned out Ferguson had pretty much already decided he was going to let him go, Utd got a good offer for him that helped budget wise, he was seen as being expendable because he had just returned from an achilles injury and there were doubts about his ability to retain his full level of fitness.

Definitely a mistake, but it was more financial reasons over football reasons that did it.

From a football perspective we swapped Stam for Veron in effect. Huge mistake

 

[Zen86]

Anderson
Nani
Berbatov

These weren’t “value” signings.

The Glazers’ tightness in their early years certainly didn’t help, but that wasn’t the only factor. Maybe SAFs judgement, or his confidence in his own judgement, was on the wane?

I think a lot of it was SAF himself not wanting to spend a lot in the market. The transfer market became stupid towards the end of his tenure. If he asked for more money, he would have got it in all likelihood.

 

[Revaulx]

I think a lot of it was SAF himself not wanting to spend a lot in the market. The transfer market became stupid towards the end of his tenure. If he asked for more money, he would have got it in all likelihood.

Good point. “No value in the market.” Maybe he actually believed it, rather than just trotting it out to protect his bosses.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

They did, but there were clearly issues with Anderson’s professionalism which SAF maybe should have spotted, and Berbatov (who I loved) never seemed to quite fit. Hargreaves can be questioned too; his injury proneness was already a thing while he was still at Bayern.

Regardless of all that, all this lot cost a serious amount of money; the Glazers weren’t that tight, despite not enough being spent to compete with the oil clubs. In comparison: apart from Ian Ure, who was utter crap, Louis Edwards signed no first team players AT ALL between Morgan in summer 1968 and Buchan in Spring 1972.

Regarding Moyes, yes he was a poor choice but it should never have been left to the incumbent manager to choose his successor. The fact that Moyes (rightly or wrongly) got rid of SAF’s back room staff when the latter was fully expecting him to keep them was an indication of the lack of attention to detail the whole process suffered from.

Plus it’s been nearly eight years since Moyes was sacked. Surely enough time has passed for those in charge to have learned from those mistakes long before now?

Exactly. We had no structure so it was up to the likes of SAF, Gill, Sir Bobby etc to put names forward. The Glazers hired Moyes because they thought they were getting SAF 2.0. In their eyes he was another manager they could leave the club to. I still think if Pep hadn't already agreed to go to Bayern he would've been the man to take over. It can't be understated how much respect SAF has for Pep.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Stam had to go for financial reasons.

I might be wrong here, but I read that him, Keane and someone else who's name escapes me, were in a meeting after RVN signed and one of them jokingly asked, "Which one of us is goung to be sold then?" Or something to to that effect, because they knew the books had to be balanced.

As it turned out Ferguson had pretty much already decided he was going to let him go, Utd got a good offer for him that helped budget wise, he was seen as being expendable because he had just returned from an achilles injury and there were doubts about his ability to retain his full level of fitness.

Definitely a mistake, but it was more financial reasons over football reasons that did it.

I thought Stam was sold because Fergie wasn't happy with stuff he had written in his autobiography, am I wrong?

The appointment of Moyes was so uninspiring. So "safe". It was like Fergie saw Moyes as a "mini me" and thought the same success could be replicated.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Allowing the Glazers to take a back seat in the transfer market was by far his biggest mistake and we’ve been paying for it for a decade.

The narrative that we weren't any good when he left caught on but I don't agree, we won the league in April and were robbed in the CL against Real. Ferguson gifted Moyes Zaha too, which people forget, who has proven to be a good player and much better than most of our other wide players in the years that followed. That was on Moyes that he fell out with him.

Five or six years later, Mourinho was often using a back 5 of Ferguson signed players (De Gea - Valencia Jones Smalling Young), which doesn't say much for the recruitment after him. There were other good young enough players at the time that seemed good at the time like Kagawa, Hernandez, Welbeck and others that were good players if they were developed further at the right time. Ferguson wanted to get rid of Rooney, again that would have been for the best in hindsight.

 

[Ayoba]

Retiring and appointing David Moyes was his biggest mistake. Can't really argue that Stam was his biggest mistake when he then went on to dominate English football after a small blip

Sadly this. 8 years later, we are in complete turmoil and so far from looking like a side that can even compete for the league!

 

[Oranges038]

From a football perspective we swapped Stam for Veron in effect. Huge mistake

If football terms it was, but financially the decision to sell someone had to be made, Utd had just spent 77m on players.

Stam was 29, had just come back from doing his achilles, the decision to sell was based of the concern over that and the need for the money.

In hindsight it looks like a terrible move, but you can understand the thinking behind it at the time. Even then very few players overcame an achilles injury and managed to play for another 6 or 7 years at the top.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Sadly this. 8 years later, we are in complete turmoil and so far from looking like a side that can even compete for the league!

That's because we keep appointing the wrong managers and buying poorly in the transfer market. Moyes was here for nine months, after he went we could've easily have rebuilt the squad over a few seasons and appointed a great manager. It's been mistake after mistake ever since.

 

[Zen86]

Good point. “No value in the market.” Maybe he actually believed it, rather than just trotting it out to protect his bosses.

Ferguson was powerful enough to speak his own mind. I sincerely doubt he was the "puppet mouthpiece" for the Glazers as some like to suggest.

He was ageing though. My belief is, in his later years, he preferred a mixture of opportunistic punts along with developing and moulding youth players, to expensive superstar signings which came with significant expectations. The signings of Owen, RVP, Zaha etc characterise his preferences quite well.

 

[padzilla]

Anderson
Nani
Berbatov

These weren’t “value” signings.

The Glazers’ tightness in their early years certainly didn’t help, but that wasn’t the only factor. Maybe SAFs judgement, or his confidence in his own judgement, was on the wane?

Laurent Blanc was hardly a giant of the game, he was a pensioner who came here as a experienced reserve. Ronaldo is still one of the best goalscorers in the world. Stam was controversial and Ferguson got rid, like he did with a lot of players during his reign. Everything comes to an end, no guarantee Stam would have been as good for the next 2-3 seasons. Besides, it’s not like one player decides if we become FC Bayern or not - other clubs develop and catch on, it’s only natural.

Ferguson’s biggest mistake was interfering with who takes over, hiring Moyes was a huge mistake and the red flags were plenty. You can hire a fall-guy or someone on a short contract, but you can never replace charisma with Moyes on a 6 year deal. Incredibly stupid.

Blanc was literally younger than Ronaldo when we signed him. No question he wasn't the man for us, which was why we broke records to get Rio Ferdinand in the next window but Ronaldo is no longer the world class destroyer of defences he once was, if anything he is a great poacher and little else these days.

 

[Oranges038]

I thought Stam was sold because Fergie wasn't happy with stuff he had written in his autobiography, am I wrong?

The appointment of Moyes was so uninspiring. So "safe". It was like Fergie saw Moyes as a "mini me" and thought the same success could be replicated.

The decison to let him go had already been made long before all that came out.

 

[RUCK4444]

I thought Stam was sold because Fergie wasn't happy with stuff he had written in his autobiography, am I wrong?

The appointment of Moyes was so uninspiring. So "safe". It was like Fergie saw Moyes as a "mini me" and thought the same success could be replicated.

On appointing Moyes, didn’t he try to get Pep first and Pep had already agreed to join City?

At the time Pep was the stand out candidate and I believe Moyes was a distant second choice, I believe it’s known that SAF liked Jose but didn’t want him at United.

Not saying there weren’t tonnes of other candidates we should have gone to before Moyes but SAF clearly thought he could step up further at a bigger club, didn’t happen.

 

[Jeppers7]

If football terms it was, but financially the decision to sell someone had to be made, Utd had just spent 77m on players.

Stam was 29, had just come back from doing his achilles, the decision to sell was based of the concern over that and the need for the money.

In hindsight it looks like a terrible move, but you can understand the thinking behind it at the time. Even then very few players overcame an achilles injury and managed to play for another 6 or 7 years at the top.

Replacing him with Blanc was a huge mistake

 

[Vidyoyo]

Rather ironically his wiki page has a picture of him playing against Ronaldo

 

[Speako]

The state we’re currently in, and we have a thread discussing Sir Alex Ferguson’s biggest mistakes. New levels.

 

[slored1]

It's David Moyes by far. Set us back for years and we haven't recovered since. He got given a 6 year contract for feck sake.

 

[The Urban Goose]

Rock of Gibraltar was.