Rafael, Smalling, Evans, Fabio

[Walrus]

Would this have been a better and more consistent back four for us over the last ~5-10 years than what we have had?
How would they stack up right now (current ages) against our current defensive options?

I remember back in the day thinking that between Evans and the twins, we had 3/4 of our backline sorted for the next decade. I always rated Smalling too, and think his whole "cant pass" memery is very overstated - when he first joined us he looked like the natural successor to Rio as the ball playing defender.

I am of the opinion that a lot of our defensive woes stem from the lack of a DM, and a GK who is glued to their line. I think you could put Van Dijk or any elite defender (eg Varane) into our system and they would struggle. Nonetheless, given the amount of money we have spent on defenders over the last 5-10 years (Rojo, Bailly, Darmian, Blind, Dalot, Telles, Maguire, Varane.. probably others ive forgotten), I cant help but wonder if we would have been better off just sticking with what we had.

 

[Jev]

I don't think Fabio really had it in him, as evidenced by his post-United career. Evans was probably a third-choice United CB at best (but should have stayed as such). But Rafael and Smalling were easily as good as whatever we've replaced them with, if not better.

 

[SambaBoy]

Rafael's problems were his injuries. The one season he was fully fit for the entirety was Fergie's last season and he made the team of the year but before and after that, he was very injury prone.

I think Evans has shown at Leicester what a quality player he is, and is probably better than most of the options we've had there over the last 5-10 years. He seemed to go through major periods of bad form at United though probably due to the expectation and the pressure, but when he was on his game he was fantastic. He's similar to Lindelof in that he could get bullied by imposing CF's.

Hard to consider Fabio really, his only really good contribution for us was at RB where he was excellent for 10-15 games towards the back end of a season and played in the CL final. He was more injury prone than Rafael and I can't really remember him featuring at LB for a consistent period of time.

Smalling was Smalling, he was a solid defender with question marks over his passing and the ability to mess up the easiest bits of defending. I rate him higher than the likes of Blind, Rojo, Jones, Lindelof etc and he was better for United than Maguire so far.

All 4 of them had availability issues however and as defender (especially CB) you can't really be injury prone and be considered for the long-term.

 

[Tavern in the town]

Getting rid of Evans was a huge mistake and he’s been solid for Leicester for years. Rafael was probably let go too early. Smalling was an absolute donkey on the ball and I don’t see how anyone can think otherwise, he needed binning. Fabio wasn’t good enough. If that was our back 4 going into the new season we’d finish bottom half.

 

[ThanksBoss26]

Rafael whilst he had his faults at times was certainly better than those we've had playing in that position since, which for the most part has been absolute dross.

Evans I thought had plateaued with us at the time. But has since shown it was likely a mistake to let him go given some of the players we've paid fortunes for in that position since who have not really been any better.

The other two I'm more dubious about. Not Smalling's biggest fan bar a fantastic half season in van Gaal's last year (though I thought he more than reverted to type in the second half of that season).

Fabio, probably not.

 

[big rons sovereign]

Getting rid of Evans was a huge mistake and he’s been solid for Leicester for years. Rafael was probably let go too early. Smalling was an absolute donkey on the ball and I don’t see how anyone can think otherwise, he needed binning. Fabio wasn’t good enough. If that was our back 4 going into the new season we’d finish bottom half.

Evans was shocking. Made Maguire look like prime Baresi. He still drops plenty of brainfarts at Leicester too.

 

[devips]

Except for Fabio, this would have a made a very good combination for us. We would have been better served by them than what has been our lot currently.

 

[Skills]

Smalling has pissed all over Evans throughout their respective careers.

 

[dove]

None of them were that good and all of them had quite a few glaring weaknesses in their game so the answer is no, it's just a case of time healing wounds. They were definitely not better than our current bunch or anything we had in the last 5 years really.

 

[altodevil]

Probably slightly worse but massively better off financially.

 

[phelans shorts]

All of them were correctly let go when they were, possibly a bit too late but certainly none worth keeping around when they were sold.

As always though the birds in the bush will be the one people hold out for.

 

[phelans shorts]

Would this have been a better and more consistent back four for us over the last ~5-10 years than what we have had?
How would they stack up right now (current ages) against our current defensive options?

I remember back in the day thinking that between Evans and the twins, we had 3/4 of our backline sorted for the next decade. I always rated Smalling too, and think his whole "cant pass" memery is very overstated - when he first joined us he looked like the natural successor to Rio as the ball playing defender.

I am of the opinion that a lot of our defensive woes stem from the lack of a DM, and a GK who is glued to their line. I think you could put Van Dijk or any elite defender (eg Varane) into our system and they would struggle. Nonetheless, given the amount of money we have spent on defenders over the last 5-10 years (Rojo, Bailly, Darmian, Blind, Dalot, Telles, Maguire, Varane.. probably others ive forgotten), I cant help but wonder if we would have been better off just sticking with what we had.

Also I very much take exception to this. It was always Jones who looked the ball player out of him and Smalling who looked like a lost lamb. Smalling only had very superficial similarities to Rio and none on the ball.

 

[CarbonStoolBites]

No, one thing is when the manager is SAF, an entirely other thing is when the manager is literally anyone else.
I never rated Evans much, never felt confident when he played CB, he’s had good runs next to Vidic or Rio but nah, that defense wouldn’t have been very good.

I liked the da Silva twins, how can you not,right? But again, they were made to look better than they were in a SAF team.

Smalling is perhaps the only one out of the four that we could’ve kept in the squad, would’ve done better against quick attacks like Liverpool than Maguire, that’s for sure.

 

[Zen86]

I wanted us to keep onto Rafael, but we were right to let the rest go. They’d be lumped in the ‘deadwood’ category if they were still here today.

 

[2 man midfield]

Fabio I never really saw enough of, but the other three had the potential to go far if it wasn’t for being injury prone.

The one season Rafael managed to stay fit for most of the season was 2012/13, and he was great in a title winning team. Evans I always liked but he had his own problems with injury at various points, both unfairly given the boot by LVG if you ask me.

Smalling was playing non league until he was 20 and it showed in his technique. If he’d come up through the academy like Evans had perhaps this aspect of his game might have improved, but he also got a raw deal with injuries early on. Solid defender and although he wasn’t good with the ball at his feet, replacing him with Maguire who isn’t actually any better never made any sense to me. They’re both poor at it, but at least smalling was already here and had some pace.

 

[Teja]

Probably slightly worse but massively better off financially.

This.

 

[Trequarista10]

LVG dropped/sold Evans and played Rojo, McNair, Blackett, Fosu-Mensah...evidently he was sold too early.

It was probably the right time when we decided to move on from having Smalling as first choice when we did, but he probably could have stayed a while longer as a backup. It's not like we were any good at playing out from the back without him, and he at least he kept it simple rather than pinging 40 yard passes out of play or trying to pirouette past the opposition whilst having the turning circle of a battleship ala Maguire.

 

[Lebo]

This post is why I’m not a fan of signing players because we can. Most of the names suggested aren’t gonna be an upgrade on what we have. We could have basically kept these players and saved tons of money and our position will still be the same. I know there aren’t sure things in football but I can tell you one thing for sure is that AWB will never play better football than Rafael. I can’t say much about Darmian before joining but his physical attributes suggests he wasn’t gonna be better either.

Nani was a solid right winger who was replaced by players who weren’t even right wingers to begin with. He was still solid when Portugal won 2016 Euro.

Blind is better than Lindelof

Shweinsteiger and Shneidelin were supposed to replace Carrick. Carrick continued to be a starter ahead of them.

So in a nutshell , rather sign 2 brilliant players than 4 decent ones

 

[EricIn93]

Cant compare players who were under SAF to the player under the managers we have had since. SAF won the League with O'Shea as a starter at one point!

 

[SoCross]

My FM Manager 2012 backline!

 

[TwoSheds]

In the sense that our fans had got on their backs and it was almost untenable for them to stay and keep being disrespected, it was absolutely the right decision to move Evans and Smalling on when we did. In the sense that they're still better defenders than Maguire and Lindelof it was the wrong decision. But since our fans were and are regularly still massive cnuts towards our players, them moving on was inevitable.

Same deal with Nani for me. He still had some good years left in him at the time but the matchgoing crowd were constantly on his back and he had to go for his own sake. Still haven't had a better RW since though. Or at least one that we actually play there.

 

[11101]

Rafael was good enough, but he needed SAF to guide him. I still hate that cheating scrote Vardy for ending his career here with that dive.

Fabio whilst supposedly the better footballer of the two never had the mentality.

Evans was too inconsistent but would have been a good backup.

Smalling had neither the on the ball ability nor the reading of the game to play at the top.

 

[Irwin99]

Look at the clubs they're at now.

 

[DWelbz19]

Smalling and Blind was the one

 

[izec]

They are all bang average and Fergie made it work somehow. Exposed once he retired.

The man was a genius.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The hypothetical PL/CL challenging Manchester United team would have a back four made out of players good enough to thrive at other teams with similar ambitions. Seeing as not one of the players in the OP had that sort of career after leaving us then we were obviously right to try and upgrade them.

Did we do a good job of upgrading them? Another obvious answer. No.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Ahh it’s that time of year again is it? Just missed off Nani for the full YAHTZEE. They all miserably failed to take their chances as first choice players aside from Smalling who took it but was never good enough to begin with. They haven’t been missed.

 

[Blood Mage]

Rafael had two seasons where he was arguably the best RB in the league. Injuries wrecked him sadly.

 

[DannyCAFC]

Getting rid of Evans was a huge mistake and he’s been solid for Leicester for years. Rafael was probably let go too early. Smalling was an absolute donkey on the ball and I don’t see how anyone can think otherwise, he needed binning. Fabio wasn’t good enough. If that was our back 4 going into the new season we’d finish bottom half.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. He was bang average and always injured for United. Looks good in teams that play in a low-block sure, not suited for a top 6 side.

 

[marktan]

This post is why I’m not a fan of signing players because we can. Most of the names suggested aren’t gonna be an upgrade on what we have. We could have basically kept these players and saved tons of money and our position will still be the same. I know there aren’t sure things in football but I can tell you one thing for sure is that AWB will never play better football than Rafael. I can’t say much about Darmian before joining but his physical attributes suggests he wasn’t gonna be better either.

Nani was a solid right winger who was replaced by players who weren’t even right wingers to begin with. He was still solid when Portugal won 2016 Euro.

Blind is better than Lindelof

Shweinsteiger and Shneidelin were supposed to replace Carrick. Carrick continued to be a starter ahead of them.

So in a nutshell , rather sign 2 brilliant players than 4 decent ones

Nani was great at Euro 2016, arguably there third best player behind Pepe and Ronaldo. Held the ball up really well and was a great outlet.

The legacy of Van Gaal was to sell all our players and replace them with worse versions. What arrogance does to a man.

 

[Abraxas]

No, I don't think we would be any better. Would we be much worse? Maybe not, that's certainly arguable but I don't see any standout quality or amazing post United careers. Rafael went downhill, Fabio never made it here and Evans only went on to a midtable club and never proved to be a player for this particular occasion. Smalling stayed here quite a while let's not forget, it's not as if he was jettisoned quickly.

They all had their time and had their chance. I think the replacements not being up to it says more about our recruitment than it does the suitability of those four to be United players. Saying "we'd have been just as good with those four and should never have got rid" is nonsense because ultimately you have to move people on and take risks in the market to hope to progress. So what are we saying, we should stick to being mediocre?

 

[Suv666]

Except Rafael all were shite.
Fergie was a genius

 

[Tavern in the town]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing. He was bang average and always injured for United. Looks good in teams that play in a low-block sure, not suited for a top 6 side.

Apart from the Leicester side that finished in the top 6 with him.

 

[devilish]

While no one is able to polish a turd (ex turn Carragher into Maldini) its also true that manager has a huge influence on players in terms of tactics used and coaching. None of these players were WC. However one or two of them could become quite useful for us with proper coaching and proper tactics

 

[UnitedFire]

This post is why I’m not a fan of signing players because we can. Most of the names suggested aren’t gonna be an upgrade on what we have. We could have basically kept these players and saved tons of money and our position will still be the same. I know there aren’t sure things in football but I can tell you one thing for sure is that AWB will never play better football than Rafael. I can’t say much about Darmian before joining but his physical attributes suggests he wasn’t gonna be better either.

Nani was a solid right winger who was replaced by players who weren’t even right wingers to begin with. He was still solid when Portugal won 2016 Euro.

Blind is better than Lindelof

Shweinsteiger and Shneidelin were supposed to replace Carrick. Carrick continued to be a starter ahead of them.

So in a nutshell , rather sign 2 brilliant players than 4 decent ones

Look at the highest cost transfers of all time and you'll see that there are no guarantees either way!

Better 2/4 decent players turn brilliant than 2 brilliant ending up decent.

E.g. Evra and Vidic turned out better than Maguire and Wan Bisaka.

 

[Kostov]

You put VVD and Kompany behind Fred and MCT they’d still concede 40+ goals. We have lacked a proper CDM for years. If we bought Fabinho and had Smalling and Evans as CBs, we’d have something we never had, a functional core.

 

[miked99]

Nostalgia is a hell of a drug. A player joins another lesser-scrutinised team, or goes to another league and puts in an occasional decent performance, and that's all it takes.

Lukaku is a prime example. We enjoyed watching him being unable to even control a football half the time, then he goes to Serie A and does well. Remember all the posts saying what a mistake we made letting him go? Then he comes back via Chelsea, and lo and behold he's exactly the same player as he was before.

Smalling was a reasonable defender as long as he was heavily protected, but we all watched him for years and his flaws were pretty obvious. Evans was decent enough when he was alongside either of two of the best centre backs in the club's history. As soon as they went he was completely exposed. Have people forgotten how utterly awful he was before he was sold? Even watching him at Leicester with much reduced exposure, he makes so many mistakes. Better than Maguire, Varane or Lindelof? Not a chance.

I had high hopes for the Brazilian twins. Fabio sadly just wasn't good enough in the end. I liked Rafael, but he was ridiculously exciteable and impetuous and was injured a lot. I was sad he didn't make it here, but on balance it was probably the right decision.

 

[DannyCAFC]

Apart from the Leicester side that finished in the top 6 with him.

Touche.

 

[Vapor trail]

Smalling for me is a better defender than Maguire defensively. The downside is on the ball he's very limited but I think the best defence we have had since SAF retired was the Blind / Smalling duo. Smalling would never work however with the approach of many modern managers but if Chris played maybe a decade before his time he would have had a fantastic career.

 

[Dante]

Evans and Fabio were decent, but not really good enough to be starters for a top 4 team (Evans had the ability, but seemingly lacked the mentality).

Rafael and Smalling probably were just about good enough. But Rafael was no better than Valencia. And Smalling was worse on the ball than any other defender we've had since. I don't think either would have been an upgrade on what came after them. We could have saved a lot of money if we'd stuck them, though.