How well-regarded would de Gea have been in the 2000s and 90s?

[horsechoker]

De Gea despite by a great shot stopper has been criticised for his ball playing skills. The trend towards keepers who pass well has come into force as de Gea entered his prime. Due to this, his career has somewhat of an asterisks next to it owing to the standards of the modern era.

So how good would de Gea have been in the 90s and 2000s when ball playing skills for a goalie held far less weight, would he have been a top 5 goalkeeper?

 

[Scandi Red]

The real ones still regard De Gea as one of the all-time greats.

And that's all I'll say on this matter.

 

[Bastian]

Back then it was even more important to be physically up for the part and get off your goal line during set pieces when the ball was in the mixer. I think he'd have been thought less off in the era of Schmeichel and Kahn.

 

[Skills]

He's the best shot stopper I've ever seen at his best.

He was still the second best keeper in the world for a lot of the 2010s so I don't think it effected him much.

 

[sullydnl]

The premise of the question somewhat skips past the fact that he was cited as arguably the best or second best goalkeeper in the world even within the 2010s. He wasn't in the PL team of the year for literally half that decade for no reason, he was very highly regarded even within his own era.

Also, his reputation dimishing somewhat isn't just down to his passing, sweeping, etc. He also simply started making more mistakes than he did previously, which will hurt you in any decade.

But generally yes, distribution and sweeping are two of his weaknesses so if he played in an era with less emphasis on that then it would at least help. But if you're playing football at the highest level for 13+ years then you're gonna live through some changes I guess.

 

[spiriticon]

Not very well. He can't fecking catch a ball.

Schmeichel/Seaman was pulling catches from dangerous crosses all day long.

Only in the modern game can you get away with that much ball punching.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Yeah, he would clearly have been more criticized for not being imposing and dominant in the air, rather than for not being good with his feet.

 

[Idxomer]

De Gea was very well-regarded during this era. He was named 5 times in the PFA team of the year which is a record for a keeper in the PL era.

The fact is his shot-stopping ability declined a lot after 2018 which highlighted all of the other weaknesses in his game.

 

[elmo]

I don’t know, probably still our third best keeper that ever played for us but VDS would surely be ranked much higher if he played in today’s game.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think he would always have been criticised for his lack of bravery in terms of diving at the feet of onrushing attackers and failing to dominate his six yard box in the air (never mind the rest of the box!). Plus it wasn’t all that long ago when goalkeepers who elected to punch the ball instead of catching it were thought of as flakey weirdos.

 

[daveskimufc]

Back then it was even more important to be physically up for the part and get off your goal line during set pieces when the ball was in the mixer. I think he'd have been thought less off in the era of Schmeichel and Kahn.

Spot on, goalkeepers were huge characters, dominating their box, crosses were coming in far more than they are now, he would have bombed out. whilst being a great shot stopper, he would not have had half as many apps in the prem back then

 

[rimaldo]

ok, smartarses, how would he be regarded in an era where crosses were banned and goalkeeper weren’t allowed to kick the ball?

 

[Skills]

The premise of the question somewhat skips past the fact that he was cited as arguably the best or second best goalkeeper in the world even within the 2010s. He wasn't in the PL team of the year for literally half that decade for no reason, he was very highly regarded even within his own era.

Also, his reputation dimishing somewhat isn't just down to his passing, sweeping, etc. He also simply started making more mistakes than he did previously, which will hurt you in any decade.

But generally yes, distribution and sweeping are two of his weaknesses so if he played in an era with less emphasis on that then it would at least help. But if you're playing football at the highest level for 13+ years then you're gonna live through some changes I guess.

Funnily enough his distribution was fine when he joined and he became a competent sweeper under LVG.

Just shows you how poor management can wrongly develop a player.

 

[sullydnl]

I don’t know, but VDS would surely be ranked much higher if he played in today’s game.

Yes and no, I think.

He was noted for his distribution within his own era and there is certainly a greater emphasis and appreciation for that aspect of the game now. But on the flip side, if you compare his then-distribution to the standards set by the best goalkeepers today then it looks far less noteworthy as expectations have increased a lot in the last 13-ish years.

We sometimes see people wonder if De Gea's distribution got worse over the years as they remember him being quite good in those terms when he arrived. But in reality a lot of that is simply due to the standard for what constituted being good on the ball being lower back when De Gea was replacing VDS. Demands got higher as the years went on.

 

[Desert Eagle]

ok, smartarses, how would he be regarded in an era where crosses were banned and goalkeeper weren’t allowed to kick the ball?

Goat

 

[Oranges038]

How would he have been regarded back in the day when goal keepers had to be physically imposing, got little protection and were expected to catch high balls with no fuss, clatter people in the process and take a clattering and just get on with it?


He'd have been the best waiter of his generation.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

He'd have gotten absolutely battered if he'd played in the Premier League in the 90s or most of the 2000s. He's not a great passer but that's not his biggest issue as a keeper. His biggest weaknesses are his lack of presence and his passivity - he's unwilling to take responsibility for his area, uncomfortable dealing with crosses and nervous of challenging forwards for the ball.

All those things would have been way more costly 20-30 years ago than they are today, and they regularly cost us today.

 

[rimaldo]

i think his biggest weakness is that he loves too much.

 

[Anduin]

I don’t know, probably still our third best keeper that ever played for us but VDS would surely be ranked much higher if he played in today’s game.

For me, Van der Sar is the best keeper I've seen play for United, and that includes Schmeichel. After recently listening to Ben Foster's podcast and how van der Sar "trained" – he barely trained at all during the week according to Foster –, I'm even more amazed in hindsight how calm, composed, unfazed and skillful he was. Immense keeper, even though you could argue he had prime-Vidic and Ferdinand in front of him for most of the time, while De Gea had to deal with lots of calamities of centre-backs over the last decade.

 

[Herman Toothrot]

Another thread for a bunch of miserable, self-hating fans to kick a player from the club they love to fecking hate.

No thank you.

 

[TheReligion]

De Gea despite by a great shot stopper has been criticised for his ball playing skills. The trend towards keepers who pass well has come into force as de Gea entered his prime. Due to this, his career has somewhat of an asterisks next to it owing to the standards of the modern era.

So how good would de Gea have been in the 90s and 2000s when ball playing skills for a goalie held far less weight, would he have been a top 5 goalkeeper?

I mean does it have an asterisks by it? I guess that’s matter of opinion, not fact, and one which I don’t share if I’m honest.

 

[sullydnl]

As TR said above, there's no asterisks next to his career really. He just peaked early, as happens to a lot of players. Part of that is down to the changing era he was in, part of it was just down to his own individual form.

But he was still as good as he was when he was good, he still earned all the individual acclaim he got in those years, he was still a PL winner under SAF, he still played 514+ times for United, etc. His career is what it is.

 

[Red in STL]

ok, smartarses, how would he be regarded in an era where crosses were banned and goalkeeper weren’t allowed to kick the ball?

He'd be a crap basketball player

 

[Bastian]

ok, smartarses, how would he be regarded in an era where crosses were banned and goalkeeper weren’t allowed to kick the ball?

Top of his class, sir. Had he opted for the peculiar sport of handball he'd have been exemplary.

 

[Kag]

I don’t think he’d have left Spain in the first place had he played during the 90s or 2000s.

As others have said, his distribution wouldn’t have been an issue, but his command of his box (or lack of) would have made life extremely uncomfortable for him.

 

[Sandikan]

Bearing in mind it was only a few years ago nearly everyone was regarding him as either the best or right up there with the best, this is a strange thread.

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

He'd have been the best waiter of his generation.

Nah, his concentration is shite. He'd be constantly dropping plates and forgetting orders.

 

[Hughes35]

ok, smartarses, how would he be regarded in an era where crosses were banned and goalkeeper weren’t allowed to kick the ball?

His throwing isn't great and his sweeping isn't the best.

 

[Pexbo]

I think he would always have been criticised for his lack of bravery in terms of diving at the feet of onrushing attackers and failing to dominate his six yard box in the air (never mind the rest of the box!). Plus it wasn’t all that long ago when goalkeepers who elected to punch the ball instead of catching it were thought of as flakey weirdos.

This is definitely down to analytics. I’m guessing that statistically speaking punches have a higher success rate in some metric with less individual errors leading to goal.

 

[alexthelion]

De Gea despite by a great shot stopper has been criticised for his ball playing skills. The trend towards keepers who pass well has come into force as de Gea entered his prime. Due to this, his career has somewhat of an asterisks next to it owing to the standards of the modern era.

So how good would de Gea have been in the 90s and 2000s when ball playing skills for a goalie held far less weight, would he have been a top 5 goalkeeper?

Not as highly as some regard him now.

His lack of control over the box would have been highlighted even more than it is now.

 

[bosnian_red]

Same as now. In his prime, was an elite goalkeeper. Rest of the time, has been ok with some good traits and some really weak traits.

The playing out from the back and sweeping can be ignored and the above still holds true to the same amount. Key things like bravery, aerial ability, consistency have always been a weakness of his, even more so outside of his peak between 2015 and 2018.

Courtois is an elite goalkeeper for Madrid and has never been much of a sweeper keeper or anything special with the ball at his feet. He does command his box though.

 

[Stacks]

A slightly better Joe Hart.

 

[Raoul]

So ostensibly, how would De Gea be regarded while surrounded by the 99 or 08 sides ? One of the best ever undoubtedly.

 

[JB7]

Shay Given basically. One of those goalkeepers that makes saves that look great on MOTD and the TV watchers would wonder why he's not at a better club, but in reality the top clubs wouldn't pick him up because he doesn't command his area, both in terms of crosses into the box and in terms of being vocal organising those in front of him. He'd also be seen as a coward seen as he drops like a fly whenever anyone goes near him, which is the opposite of how goalkeepers tended to be in the 90s. The other factor is generally speaking the game was played at a slower pace and goalkeepers were a big part of that, him not holding the ball be it from shot or crosses, wouldn't have been looked on well as he often keeps the ball live where other goalkeepers would kill it.

 

[alexthelion]

So ostensibly, how would De Gea be regarded while surrounded by the 99 or 08 sides ? One of the best ever undoubtedly.

Nope, those teams both had commanding keepers. De Gea is the exact opposite of that. He is far behind VdS and Schmeichel.

 

[ScholesyTheWise]

He'd have gotten absolutely battered if he'd played in the Premier League in the 90s or most of the 2000s. He's not a great passer but that's not his biggest issue as a keeper. His biggest weaknesses are his lack of presence and his passivity - he's unwilling to take responsibility for his area, uncomfortable dealing with crosses and nervous of challenging forwards for the ball.

All those things would have been way more costly 20-30 years ago than they are today, and they regularly cost us today.

Yeah, well said.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

who was the best “shot stopper” around in the 90s, I wanna say Pagliuca but that may be completely wrong

 

[harms]

The real question is how high he would've been rated if his level didn't drop dramatically after 2018. No one even dared to question him at his peak and people rightly said that his performances were alongside the best they've ever seen from a keeper... as well as arguing for him being at worth second best keeper in the world behind Neuer (who himself is in contention with Yashin and Buffon for the title of the greatest ever). Peak De Gea still wouldn't be a seamless fit for side that sets up for a possession-dominant style with a high defensive line but he wouldn't be a liability due to his cheat code shot-stopping.

After 2018 mistakes started creeping in and his overall performances became way more shaky and inconsistent, which also highlighted that when he isn't in God mode his weaknesses (reluctance to claim crosses and leave the line as well his average passing) become a massive problem. And yeah, he's been between average and poor for most of that post-2018 stint but I swear those who compare him to Given or Hart have a memory span of a goldfish.

We still have top keepers that aren't playing as sweepers today — Oblak, Courtois etc.

 

[Raoul]

Nope, those teams both had commanding keepers. De Gea is the exact opposite of that. He is far behind VdS and Schmeichel.

It does matter how commanding they were perceived to be. De Gea would've been surrounded by the same defenders as they were. Put Rio, Vidic, Stam, Pallister, Neville, Irwin, Evra et al., each at their respective peaks around any good keeper and that keeper will appear far better than say De Gea has for most of his United career when prior to this year, he hasn't had any top quality defenders (late stage Rio and Vidic with young De Gea weren't exactly peak Rio and Vidic during the mid 2000s)

 

[harms]

who was the best “shot stopper” around in the 90s, I wanna say Pagliuca but that may be completely wrong

I'd go for Schmeichel personally but Pagliuca is a great shout as well. Preud'homme was also somewhere at the top.