I like Antony! He's got heart and potential. Hopefully he will turn into a top class player.
PS. Inid = wnrb
PS. Inid = wnrb
Antony: why the concern - use the player performance thread
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Flair players are always inconsistent. I remember Giggs in his prime. He would vanish for a couple of games then he'll come in an annihilate opposition. The Italian clubs in particular were scared shit about the man.
Its up to United to build a well balanced side were it can afford to have that flair player to switch off once in a while
Its up to United to build a well balanced side were it can afford to have that flair player to switch off once in a while
It's not his "inability" to last 90 mins. He's subbed off beacause we often need to change tactics and use the bench. Nothing wrong with his fitness. You can see the player's fit and eager to do well for the club. He's comitted no doubt about that my friend!
He only has one foot. Needs to develop 2nd foot. Needs to do other stuff, not just cut inside and shoot. A cross would be nice. Like Facundo the other night, right onto the head of the Horst. Too predictable and easy to defend against currently.
People just want an excuse to moan. He’s been fine. Dependable defensively, scored a few goals, press resistent, etc. Do we expect more from him in the final third? Of course, but that’ll hopefully come once he settles completely, he seems to be playing within himself a little bit at the moment.
It's hardly rocket science, his performances haven't been that good. Even early on when his goal record was decent his performances weren't great and they haven't improved. Beyond that, there is the concern that he simply doesn't have the attributes required for a title challenging team (which is where we should be looking to get to). He appears to have a number of the same failings as sancho has shown to date. Furthermore the club appears to have major ffp issues which his fee has contributed to, we could have easily bought a decent striker with his fee
If our other attackers outside of Rashford would contribute, we would be in a title race.
Any sane person, or adult, would give a 22 year old player coming from a different country more then a couple months to establish themselves.
I'm waiting for the "antony's right foot" newbe member to crop up!
Obviously can't blame him for the fee. That's on the stupidity of the club.
But he's one of the attackers though
He doesn’t pass the eye test.
I think some people just want to be the first to call it so they can repost an 'Anthony will be a flop' post in two years time.
Also, some people like to bemoan the so-called superstars we could have signed instead. You'll see many posts proclaiming "we should have signed player X for £25m from Gremio/River Pate/Sporting Trendy' and in a few years time, nobody will have ever heard of that player
Also, some people like to bemoan the so-called superstars we could have signed instead. You'll see many posts proclaiming "we should have signed player X for £25m from Gremio/River Pate/Sporting Trendy' and in a few years time, nobody will have ever heard of that player
Why do people keep spouting that figure when he seemly cost (a still eye-watering) £80-82m by all accounts, which would be less than €100 before anyone says that.
I tink e's just missing someting.
Not sure wat it is.
But wen e finds e'll be one ell of a player.
Not sure wat it is.
But wen e finds e'll be one ell of a player.
Antony is in his first season after a big move and is still very young.
The likes of Mahrez were playing Championship football at his age while Chelsea were quietly selling Salah. Sadio Mane had either not joined or had just joined Southampton at the same age.
Did I hope for a bit more this season? Absolutely. But the idea that he’s not talented is daft. His skill and long range shooting have shown that. If he’d taken a couple of his other chances we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Rather than bluntly stating he’s brilliant or he’s crap it makes more sense to discuss where he could improve. For me its the following:
- Making quicker decisions.This feels like a growing pain associated with moving to the Premier League but even when Antony makes the right decision it seems to come too slowly.
- Adding variety to his game. We all know he needs to take his man on wide sometimes. I have seen a lot of criticism about his cutting inside and that’s fair but I don’t get the one-footed issue. Salah, Mahrez and many others at the top level are very one-footed and it doesn’t matter as long as you still have variety in your play.
- Finishing. He’s getting into good areas but has failed to beat the keeper a few times. His long range goals have picked out the corner so it’s a bit weird he’s struggling in tight more.
The likes of Mahrez were playing Championship football at his age while Chelsea were quietly selling Salah. Sadio Mane had either not joined or had just joined Southampton at the same age.
Did I hope for a bit more this season? Absolutely. But the idea that he’s not talented is daft. His skill and long range shooting have shown that. If he’d taken a couple of his other chances we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
Rather than bluntly stating he’s brilliant or he’s crap it makes more sense to discuss where he could improve. For me its the following:
- Making quicker decisions.This feels like a growing pain associated with moving to the Premier League but even when Antony makes the right decision it seems to come too slowly.
- Adding variety to his game. We all know he needs to take his man on wide sometimes. I have seen a lot of criticism about his cutting inside and that’s fair but I don’t get the one-footed issue. Salah, Mahrez and many others at the top level are very one-footed and it doesn’t matter as long as you still have variety in your play.
- Finishing. He’s getting into good areas but has failed to beat the keeper a few times. His long range goals have picked out the corner so it’s a bit weird he’s struggling in tight more.
Players that don't perform to the required standards need to be called out. Especially if you cost 80m+ you don't get years to bed in.
This "stand by every player at all costs" mentality some of you have would be fine if this was a charity team but is a totally daft approach for a professional club aspiring to be amongst the best in the world. Blind loyalty and rose-tinted glasses won't get us back to where we want to be as a club.
If he is actually improving as you claim it's at the pace of a sloth. At least early doors he was getting goals, those have dried up. Zero G/A in his last 600 PL minutes is shocking for a 80m winger. We'd be laughing if this was a Pool attacker (and rightly so).
How did football work before spreadsheets existed?
Rashford was shite for ages to be fair
Had a better habit of assisting than Antony has so far. But then so does Wan Bissaka. He’s scored two ‘screamers’ one in a 6-3 defeat and one against Charlton. He could go on to be fantastic but those goals aren’t evidence that everyone that doubts him is wrong.
Probably on the accounting practises of their time. I wasn’t taking him literally that it had to be Excel. Or do you think that football clubs didn’t consider budgets in the past?
The teenage version of 2 of those turned out really well didn't they!
I will tell you why I am concerned - because I don't see what kind of a player he can become with those limitations, I don't see the "high skill set" you mentioned. He's 23 with little pace (for a winger against EPL fullbacks) and no right foot (literally). He's not exactly "young" in a way that he can improve on those aspects.
What he will for sure improve is decision making - but I think he already plays like a mature player, so I don't think he has a lot of room here. His decisions to stop dribbling once he's ahead of opposition player, or cut inside where there is clear area on the outside are dictated by his limitations rather than wrong decision making.
Antony does a good job to keep the ball, helps us to progress with the play and is good defensively but that's not what you pay 95m for.
So again, my concern is not what kind of a player he is, or not even his "bottom level" but what can be his "top level". Like we saw a very good / top player in Rashford, Pogba, Greenwood, even Sancho. I don't know what kind of player can Antony become with his clear limitations.
Agreed.
He’s not set the world on fire, but comparing him to Dan James is really harsh and ridiculous imo. He is a team player that knows how to play as a collective, that’s 75% of what ETHs football requires and we should all appreciate him for it and how he improves the team performance. ETH is happy with him and he knows what’s needed. He could do with being more direct and ruthless in the opposition third though.
Of course they did but not like it's done now, in the old days the manager said I want this player and want to pay this much, the chairman said yes or no and that was basically it
And what’s changed? Throughout the history of football what you spend on one player impacts what you can spend on other players. People are yearning for a time that didn’t exist.
Respect for your analysis. Still beg to disagree though. We'll see!
I like him and his upside is still huge. Let's look at some aspects of his games.
First Touch. Very good first touch and with some improvement could be world class status. He has soft feet and uses minimal movement to control a ball.
Passing. This is his weakest spot right now as he often doesn't have the correct weight on the ball. This, however, can be developed over time and given his soft feet I expect improvement. Ronaldo was like that his early years and he improved greatly over the years. (Note: I'm not saying Antony is Ronaldo potential)
Shooting. He's had some really nice goals and I expect this to improve with experience.
Creating Space. Has a quick first two steps and his close control allows him to get shots and passes off by creating space. Many attackers don't have that ability (e.g. Martial)
Dribbling. He can create space and now he needs to learn how to use that skill to actually beat players. I'm a little worried that his overall speed, though, will always hinder his ability to beat defenders. If he can vary his game a little that will help. He needs to be able to dribble to the byline and cross with his right to make him much more dangerous.
Insight. He has improved very much in keeping possession in our half under pressure. I remember his first few matches he gave the ball away trying to do too much in important areas. He improved which to me shows he is learning and should continue to learn.
We need to have some patience with Antony and let his potential bloom.
First Touch. Very good first touch and with some improvement could be world class status. He has soft feet and uses minimal movement to control a ball.
Passing. This is his weakest spot right now as he often doesn't have the correct weight on the ball. This, however, can be developed over time and given his soft feet I expect improvement. Ronaldo was like that his early years and he improved greatly over the years. (Note: I'm not saying Antony is Ronaldo potential)
Shooting. He's had some really nice goals and I expect this to improve with experience.
Creating Space. Has a quick first two steps and his close control allows him to get shots and passes off by creating space. Many attackers don't have that ability (e.g. Martial)
Dribbling. He can create space and now he needs to learn how to use that skill to actually beat players. I'm a little worried that his overall speed, though, will always hinder his ability to beat defenders. If he can vary his game a little that will help. He needs to be able to dribble to the byline and cross with his right to make him much more dangerous.
Insight. He has improved very much in keeping possession in our half under pressure. I remember his first few matches he gave the ball away trying to do too much in important areas. He improved which to me shows he is learning and should continue to learn.
We need to have some patience with Antony and let his potential bloom.
Pretty certain Antony has a right foot (literally).
You’re obsessed by the lad
Yep.
And we need our forwards to contribute goals and assists if we want to win something, develop, and take the load of Rashford, Bruno... and er (who else..???)
We haven't the luxury of a 'project'. I'm hoping for something else this window, although unlikely. Or Elanga surprises us all. Him playing more central should help him, like it did the other night. But that raises other questions, but for now, just getting him to improve would help...
Yeah move over everyone, forget every knowledgable analyst, phelans shorts has spoken. When he’s an inevitable flop and gets moved on, I wonder what bollocks you’re going to come up with then.
Thats a very limited viewpoint and shows a lack of critical thinking skills. Some of Eths siginings at Ajax did not work. Every manager has success and bad ones. its the nature of the beast. We will see about Antony and I will be more judging next season as the EPL is hard. same with Sancho. It is disappointing though because City have been weaker and if our attackers had stepped up we may have been able to sneak a title in this surprise season.
I knew someone will pick up on this bit. Please quote my full post because in the previous line I explained this in very simple way.23 next month!!
23 year old player is developed in terms of technique and physicality. Do you expect him to become faster and learn to use his right foot with age?
If he starts using it, will be pay bonuses to Ajax?
Its because of the bullsht forget about the fee that is spouted from Youtubers.
That means some people see Antony like a 22 year old prospect like Amad and Pellestri and we can wait 2,3,4 years, let him develop and see if he can work on his weaknesses. If he make it then thats a bonus but if he doesnt then we forgot about the cost so what does it matter.
Others see a 80 mill plus player and think he's been bought to hit the ground running and be a first teamer. They think the player should not have flaws that cant be fixed and should have at least a very good base in the basics i.e. passing, crossing etc. Teaching strategy, positioning etc is one thing. Lacking pace and a right foot or very poor base level in things like crossing, passing is another
That means some people see Antony like a 22 year old prospect like Amad and Pellestri and we can wait 2,3,4 years, let him develop and see if he can work on his weaknesses. If he make it then thats a bonus but if he doesnt then we forgot about the cost so what does it matter.
Others see a 80 mill plus player and think he's been bought to hit the ground running and be a first teamer. They think the player should not have flaws that cant be fixed and should have at least a very good base in the basics i.e. passing, crossing etc. Teaching strategy, positioning etc is one thing. Lacking pace and a right foot or very poor base level in things like crossing, passing is another
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