Chelsea 2022/2023 | THIS IS LAST YEARS THREAD YOU NUMPTIES

[Hansi Fick]

The club is going to be completely ruined in no time.

 

[duffer]

The club is going to be completely ruined in no time.

People said that under Bates, then Roman, now Clearlake.

 

[GoonerBear]

Good discussion this. Particularly impressed with the effort Bluelion and Powderfinger have put into their posts. Some of the stuff is a bit over my head mind you, so I won't pretend to be an expert there.

Think 1 of the things that might be getting folks back up a wee bit is not just the brash spending, it's some of the soundbites that are coming out with it. Snippets about blowing other teams out the water when bidding, and after an obscene spend saying this is just the start. Comes across as rather crass if you ask me.

As for the team, I hope they go out and sign 6 or 7 players every window. What we know is real life is not as easy as playing Football Manager. A team need to be allowed to develop, to be coached very well, to be together, for the dressing room to be harmonious etc. Too many changes every window just destabilises things leaves players unhappy and disgruntled.

In the same way, it's not just about having the best XI players money can buy. It certainly helps but give me good players who are very well coached in a good system rather than top players who are just thrown together. Arsenal being a good example of that. If you were laying out the 1 to 11 at the start of the season, you'd be lucky if any top 6 rival would want any in their own best line ups. Still see folk make that mistake now, how many of X's teams players would get into Y's team.

I thought Newcastle would be the team acting like Chelsea, and although they've spent money, they've done it in a very sensible way, I've got a grudging admiration for how they've started their build. I think you'd be hard pushed to find anyone saying the same about Chelsea just now.

 

[Dr. StrangeHate]

People said that under Bates, then Roman, now Clearlake.

United have been jaded by our experience of American businessmen taking 2 billion out of the club in loans and dividends over the years. In your case you have had 2 billion poured into the club by Roman and 1.5 billion now pledged by another wealthy owner. You can argue Chelsea probably are the luckiest club in history of sport in that regard. So there will obviously be different views on this situation shaped by the different experiences.

 

[The Boy]

People said that under Bates, then Roman, now Clearlake.

I said earlier in this thread that people are just blinded by the high sums of money changing hands. Just looking at the players, your Jan window is very Potteresque, young players, technically skilled, able to play in a number of positions with lots of potential. Your summer window and Jan window could not be more different and your theft ( ) of all things Brighton is clear to see. I think you could at a push scrape top 4 this season, as various injured players return, and will be a massive force next season.

 

[GoonerInPeace]

What a bizarre post.

Fofana started well and has sadly been injured.

If you had mentioned Koulibaly then you’d have made a much better point.

The point is, Fofona still wouldn't get in the Arsenal team. Wouldnt get in the Man United team either. So why are Chelsea being billed as potentially owning the premier league when they players they sign are not definite upgrades on what rivals have? People are just in a frenzy because of the sensational fees that are being paid.

Is Mudryk better than Saka, or Rashford? Why would I accept the notion that Enzo is better than Odegaard.

They will be better than 10th next season, but the idea they will shoot right back to the top is not something I accept. I also highly doubt Graham Potter. I think the dynamic of Boehly signing players and asking Potter to make it work is not ideal.

ETH, Arteta, Klopp, Pep all pick thier own targets and have veto power on players. You reckon Potter has any say in these deals? he has no control over who Boehly signs.

 

[sglowrider]

Good discussion this. Particularly impressed with the effort Bluelion and Powderfinger have put into their posts. Some of the stuff is a bit over my head mind you, so I won't pretend to be an expert there.

Think 1 of the things that might be getting folks back up a wee bit is not just the brash spending, it's some of the soundbites that are coming out with it. Snippets about blowing other teams out the water when bidding, and after an obscene spend saying this is just the start
. Comes across as rather crass if you ask me.

As for the team, I hope they go out and sign 6 or 7 players every window. What we know is real life is not as easy as playing Football Manager. A team need to be allowed to develop, to be coached very well, to be together, for the dressing room to be harmonious etc. Too many changes every window just destabilises things leaves players unhappy and disgruntled.

In the same way, it's not just about having the best XI players money can buy. It certainly helps but give me good players who are very well coached in a good system rather than top players who are just thrown together. Arsenal being a good example of that. If you were laying out the 1 to 11 at the start of the season, you'd be lucky if any top 6 rival would want any in their own best line ups. Still see folk make that mistake now, how many of X's teams players would get into Y's team.

I thought Newcastle would be the team acting like Chelsea, and although they've spent money, they've done it in a very sensible way, I've got a grudging admiration for how they've started their build. I think you'd be hard pushed to find anyone saying the same about Chelsea just now.

Agree. Very interesting and insightful.

It's a potentially very disruptive business model. It's common for folks to doubt something that's very different from the conventional thinking or business model. You just debunk at this early stage when the conventional business model is antiquitated in view of the next generation of business models and future revenue streams due to emerging technologies

 

[duffer]

The point is, Fofona still wouldn't get in the Arsenal team. Wouldnt get in the Man United team either. So why are Chelsea being billed as potentially owning the premier league when they players they sign are not definite upgrades on what rivals have?

Could you quote a few people who are saying that? I think I've missed them. The VAST majority reaction seems to be we're going to fail miserably.

 

[GoonerBear]

The point is, Fofona still wouldn't get in the Arsenal team. Wouldnt get in the Man United team either. So why are Chelsea being billed as potentially owning the premier league when they players they sign are not definite upgrades on what rivals have? People are just in a frenzy because of the sensational fees that are being paid.

Is Mudryk better than Saka, or Rashford? Why would I accept the notion that Enzo is better than Odegaard.

They will be better than 10th next season, but the idea they will shoot right back to the top is not something I accept. I also highly doubt Graham Potter. I think the dynamic of Boehly signing players and asking Potter to make it work is not ideal.

ETH, Arteta, Klopp, Pep all pick thier own targets and have veto power on players. You reckon Potter has any say in these deals? he has no control over who Boehly signs.

That's the other important thing I failed to mention. While they might not be as involved as the Fergie / Wenger era of managers, there's no doubt these guys are seen as proper managers in the power and influence they have at their club. I'm not sure Potter will get the same.

 

[The Boy]

I think the dynamic of Boehly signing players and asking Potter to make it work is not ideal.

If you read about it, this is not the case at all. The difference between Chelseas summer window and Jan window in terms of players brought in is like light and day, the only similarity is the huge sums spent.

 

[Rnd898]

I said earlier in this thread that people are just blinded by the high sums of money changing hands. Just looking at the players, your Jan window is very Potteresque, young players, technically skilled, able to play in a number of positions with lots of potential. Your summer window and Jan window could not be more different and your theft ( ) of all things Brighton is clear to see. I think you could at a push scrape top 4 this season, as various injured players return, and will be a massive force next season.

Yeah it's very different going from signing the likes of Koulibaly/Sterling/Auba to the ones we've now signed in January. Last summer there was definitely a bit of chaos in the back room as the current recruitment staff hadn't been hired yet and more power was given to Tuchel in the market. We had lost a lot of important players and were fighting an uphill battle to replace them adequately so Tuchel mostly just prioritized players with lots of experience and pedigree to plug these holes in the short term.

I rate Tuchel very highly as a manager and thought his sacking was stupid (or at the very least the timing of it) but Tuchel's strengths are definitely not in squad building and working towards improving young players so I prefer the current structure more, even if things with Potter haven't been great so far on the actual footballing side of things. Everything just seems more long term now. I still have high faith in Potter to come good once he gets to really show what he can do with these 'Potteresque players', as you put it, but even if in the end it turns out Potter isn't the right man to lead this team to success it won't even matter all that much as long as we make sure to replace him with another manager with similar ideas who can push this side further using the same players and not needing another squad overhaul.

As for the team, I hope they go out and sign 6 or 7 players every window. What we know is real life is not as easy as playing Football Manager. A team need to be allowed to develop, to be coached very well, to be together, for the dressing room to be harmonious etc. Too many changes every window just destabilises things leaves players unhappy and disgruntled.

I very much doubt that will happen. Most major parts of our squad rebuild have already been done and there's not many positions left we still need to fill. Once they're done, going forward there should only be need for the occasional replacement for an outgoing player here or there.

If you look at Man City early into Guardiola's reign for a couple of years there was a ton of player traffic both incoming and outgoing but once they got a stable squad suited for the playing style their transfer business slowed down considerably and that should be our aim as well.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

What's interesting is that Clearlake's thesis about the business of football is actually not shared by very many other people right now.

Even in the PL, the only financially healthy league, the owners of United, Liverpool, Spurs, and Everton - four of the biggest club brands in the English game - are trying to sell whole or partial stakes. So far, the evidence is that there isn't exactly a horde of would-be buyers lining up either.

Lots of other people - including some very savvy investors like John Henry and Joe Lewis - seem to think that the low-hanging fruit has been picked over the last 10-15 years in terms of driving revenues and asset valuation and want to get out or reduce their stake. Boehly/Clearlake, on the other hand, think we're heading for a huge bonanza in which revenues and asset valuations of big clubs will double over the next 5-10 years.

Who is right? We will have to see.

For me, a big question is whether Boehly/Clearlake have really come to grips with the ways that the regulatory structure of football - at both national and European level - limits the revenue growth potential of clubs. They are used to sports where teams have huge control over their own revenue streams, including broadcast and digital, and where owners collectively call all the shots in terms of the league's financial strategy, with Commissioners just doing their bidding. But that's not how football works - you don't get to sell the rights to broadcast or stream your own games, you don't even get to indirectly control the negotiations over those rights. You can't get together with other owners, come up with strategies for growing the pie, and then give the Commissioner his marching orders to put those strategies into place. Instead, you hope that entities like the Premier League, the FA, and UEFA do smart things but in all of those situations you're actually outvoted by smaller clubs (or national associations) that have different interests and are very wary of you. An ownership group like FSG was bullish on football right up to the point where their gambits to wrest more control over revenue streams and the regulation of the game - in the form of both the Super League and Project Big Picture - failed. As soon as those initiatives blew up, they decided to get out.

This is a very very good post.

 

[Noodle]

For what it’s worth I think it’s almost certain the spending will slow down now and we’ll sell a few players in the summer. We have done major surgery on the squad and we should just see more normal windows going forward.

We have the squad, owners, new management structure in place so attention will turn to commercial deals and the stadium. I guess the hope is the squad/spend will get sponsors excited about the project and get on board but who knows.

I don’t think we’ll get top four this year, but we’ll be a much better side next season. Whether we challenge or not I’m not sure but getting back into the CL is a must.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I agree there is plenty of space for the PL to grow, the issue is really how much.

In some ways, the question is why the PL, despite having such a large global audience, makes so much less money from its broadcast rights. The implication from people backing the Boehly perspective is that they're just not doing a good enough job monetizing the product. But not only does the owner of a big club actually have little control over that, there are also a number of factors that suggest that monetization isn't really the most important issue.

-The PL has a big global audience but a huge part of that audience has relatively little disposal income, at least vis-a-vis the US TV audience, and particularly isn't a major target demographic for the most lucrative of advertisers like car companies.

-Compared to the NFL, the structure of football offers very few advertising opportunities. The average NFL game includes 63 minutes of commercials, a totally insane number. Moreover, they come in short spurts so the audience often keeps their eyes glued to the TV/stream because they don't want to miss the next play. With a football match, if you just tune in right before kickoff and turn it off at the end, there are generally a couple commercial breaks right after the first half ends and right before the second half begins and that's a time when half the audience is going to piss, having a smoke, or just obliviously chatting with somebody else in the pub.

-Americans will basically watch any NFL game, even matchups between terrible teams put up huge audience numbers on national broadcasts. While the same may be true among a certain segment of PL diehards in the UK, the global audience of the PL just isn't interested in Bournemouth v. Forest at all. There are more PL games than NFL games, but the vast majority of PL matches aren't actually very big draws for the global audience. People in China may not care about NFL games between terrible teams either, but its the 330m strong US domestic audience - which does care and will watch - that drives the NFL broadcast revenues.

All valid points - but I think you're limiting the scope to just broadcasting, which need not be the case. There's still a gap in terms of merchandise sales, digital delivery / streaming, brand & name recognition, etc.

 

[Bwuk]

Mendy
Arrizabalaga
Slonina

W.Fofana
Badiashile
Koulibaly
Chalobah
Thiago Silva
Cucurella
Chilwell
Hall
James
Azpilicueta
Colwill
Gusto
Sarr
Ampadu
Baba
Maatsen

Fernandez
Mount
Kovacic
Gallagher
Loftus-Cheek
Chukwuemeka
Santos
Bakayoko
Casadei
Anjorin

Havertz
Sterling
Mudryk
Pulisic
Ziyech
Madueke
Broja
Aubameyang
D.Fofana
Lukaku
Hudson-Odoi

Out of contract/Loan Expired;
Bettinelli
Kante
Zakaria
Felix

That list is absolutely mental. Obviously they'll move players on, but the likes of Auba & Lukaku they'll have to subsidize their wages.

 

[Rajiztar]

All valid points - but I think you're limiting the scope to just broadcasting, which need not be the case. There's still a gap in terms of merchandise sales, digital delivery / streaming, brand & name recognition, etc.

Some still think they are nobodies didn't know what they are doing. After Roman sold the club rival fans oh it's over. Americans won't spend this and that. Now oh Americans overspent this and that. Really have to laugh it out.. Sorry again for my post. Edited now.

 

[Dancfc]

The thing is. You can match what Chelsea are doing on the discount if your clever about it.

So many are intimidated by these signings as if they are value for money. Literally everyone of them, Chelsea have paid well over the odds.

I look at Wesley Fofona for example and laugh at the fact he cost 80m. Im not thinking, oh, Wesley Fofana, how can anyone match that centre half. Because this is a player who I know wouldn't be getting in the Arsenal team if he played for us. But some reason, people are revering him because of his fee.

I couldnt care less how much money Chelsea are spending on players, at the end of the day once you cross the white line only the football matters

I mean he was literally the superior CB to your best one (who I rate also) when they played together in France.

And even ignoring that he's certainly better than the rent a gob next to him.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Graham Potter, supremo, man manager and tactician at top level trying to keep all these players happy is going to be some spectacle.

 

[WeePat]

The thing is. You can match what Chelsea are doing on the discount if your clever about it.

So many are intimidated by these signings as if they are value for money. Literally everyone of them, Chelsea have paid well over the odds.

I look at Wesley Fofona for example and laugh at the fact he cost 80m. Im not thinking, oh, Wesley Fofana, how can anyone match that centre half. Because this is a player who I know wouldn't be getting in the Arsenal team if he played for us. But some reason, people are revering him because of his fee.

I couldnt care less how much money Chelsea are spending on players, at the end of the day once you cross the white line only the football matters

Every thread you're in, you seem to go into them all guns blazing, ranting and raving as if your opinion on something is some kind of authority. Which highly ironic given your username. Chelsea didn't pay over the odds for literally every one of their transfers. That is a lie.

 

[WeePat]

Graham Potter, supremo, man manager and tactician at top level trying to keep all these players happy is going to be some spectacle.

Well, as they keep telling us, Potter does have a masters degree in emotional intelligence. So maybe he is the man for the job after all.

 

[GoonerBear]

I mean he was literally the superior CB (who I rate also) when they played together in France.

I thought they were both rated equally at the time, both excelling at different things? Saliba certainly made his debut at the start of the 2018/19 season, Fofana the very end of it.

 

[Rnd898]

I thought they were both rated equally at the time, both excelling at different things? Saliba certainly made his debut at the start of the 2018/19 season, Fofana the very end of it.

Yeah wasn't much, if anything, between Fofana and Saliba at Saint-Etienne.

Saliba was sold to Arsenal for €30M in 2019 and Fofana got his transfer to Leicester for €35M a year later. Would assume the main reason for Saliba's price being slightly lower was that Arsenal agreed to loan him back for another season while Leicester snapped Fofana from them immediately.

Still don't think there's too much setting these two apart other than the fact Saliba hasn't had as many injuries, both great fecking players. Remains to be seen whether injury worries will continue to haunt Fofana or if this last year or so has just been bad luck. The leg break last season was definitely just rotten luck and the injury he's had this season has nothing to do with that so I'd be a little wary of declaring him injury prone and/or a bad signing at this point.

 

[Acrobat7]

The club is going to be completely ruined in no time.

It's the hope that kills you.

 

[youmeletsfly]

Every thread you're in, you seem to go into them all guns blazing, ranting and raving as if your opinion on something is some kind of authority. Which highly ironic given your username. Chelsea didn't pay over the odds for literally every one of their transfers. That is a lie.

That's envy and fear right there for you. Typical Arse fan.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Some still think they are nobodies didn't know what they are doing. After Roman sold the club rival fans oh it's over. Americans won't spend this and that. Now oh Americans overspent this and that. Really have to laugh it out. Let them cry.

Great post, the kind of stuff the Caf needs more of.

 

[Hansi Fick]

It's the hope that kills you.

It has already begun.

 

[Dancfc]

It has already begun.

Someone's still not over 2012

 

[Acrobat7]

Someone's still not over 2012

Believe me, it's more about some investor spontaneously and eclectically knocking over half a billion into the market and destroying the price structure than it is about a lost final 11 years ago.

 

[Lee565]

Signing almost a new 11 is not going to do potter much favours, it's a hard task making it gel together so quickly unless you are at the top of your game as a manager like mourinho was when he joined Chelsea

 

[SirReginald]

Believe me, it's more about some investor spontaneously and eclectically knocking over half a billion into the market and destroying the price structure than it is about a lost final 11 years ago.

While I’m not saying we have not and will not continue to disrupt values but don’t for one second attempt to accuse one club of doing that.

Antony - £80 mil - overpaid
Nunez - £85 mil - overpaid
Tchouameni - £85 mil - overpaid
Isak - £59 mil - overpaid
Richarlison - £60 mil - overpaid
Raphinha - £55 mil - overpaid

United, Liverpool, Madrid, Newcastle, Spurs, Barcelona

Only difference is that we did many in one go but aside from Enzo we literally overpaid at the current rate of inflation in the market. So no we haven’t ruined the market (yet).

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Great discussion about this on the Second Captains podcast.

Basically the only way this strategy makes sense is if there’s untapped revenue streams in football that no other club has yet thought about. Which is incredibly fecking unlikely. The overall impression is someone who thinks that the PL can adopt approaches used by the NFL to screw even more money out of their customers. Which only works if you’re essentially clueless about the cultural differences between the two leagues.

Sure the average NFL fan spends about 10 x as much money attending a game but that’s because their statdiums aren’t located in the centre of a city surrounded by places to eat and drink where the “franchise” won’t earn a penny.

Sure ticket prices seem cheap compared to NFL games but that’s because an NFL fan will only need to buy tickets to 8 home games each season.

TL;DR, they’re screwed

 

[dinostar77]

Why would they?

Because they bought Fenandez for 107m.

I dont think Potter is getting anywhere near the title. Now matter who Boehly buys for him.

Because they are putting a team together to challenege for it. They will be there or there abours next season.

 

[P-Ro]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Hmm

 

[Hansi Fick]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Hmm

You are so screwed.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Mr Boehly are you listening?
Not sure what you are envisioning
Your spend's out of sight
And Chelsea's still shite
Walking in a ten Hag wonderland

 

[mav_9me]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Hmm

Wtf is that?

 

[mav_9me]

Some still think they are nobodies didn't know what they are doing. After Roman sold the club rival fans oh it's over. Americans won't spend this and that. Now oh Americans overspent this and that. Really have to laugh it out. Let them cry.

Please refrain from posting childish nonsense like that.

 

[Zaphod2319]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

I have no idea where anyone pulls their numbers from?

 

[Gazza]

Some still think they are nobodies didn't know what they are doing. After Roman sold the club rival fans oh it's over. Americans won't spend this and that. Now oh Americans overspent this and that. Really have to laugh it out. Let them cry.

@TheMagicFoolBus and @Powderfinger were having an interesting discussion, take your childish schtick back to the newbies or better yet another forum, thanks.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

Some still think they are nobodies didn't know what they are doing. After Roman sold the club rival fans oh it's over. Americans won't spend this and that. Now oh Americans overspent this and that. Really have to laugh it out. Let them cry.

Aside from the fact that this is a pretty inane thing to say in any context, I'd encourage you to remember that we are guests on this forum. It really doesn't contribute to the discussion at all.