ARSENAL OFFICIALLY BOTTLE IT! Arsenal fans now backtracking....2nd will be a great season for us! Surely that has to be seen as a failure??

[bosskeano]

If they get a striker they will be in business next year.

don't they have one in Jesus?

 

[GazTheLegend]

xG has Man City in first and Arsenal in second... isn't that a better measure?


Unless my final table is wrong it shows us in 2nd on xpts as well. Man Utd is actually down to 6th it looks like.

https://understat.com/league/EPL

Even better advert for xpts then to be fair. Very interesting to see Brighton in there - highlights quite how important a goalscorer that doesn't underperform their xg can really be, because given how well they've played and that they've done us home and away (and rightly so) it's pretty hard to argue with.

But then I'm pretty sure that prior to key injuries (in Jan or Feb or so?) We were third on xpts? I'd not argue statistically - Arsenal really were absolutely fantastic for about 28 games or so and deserves to be up there.

 

[Raoul]

don't they have one in Jesus?

His injury aside, he only managed 11 goals in 33 appearances, which won't be enough for them. They would be wise to upgrade, which would also give them more rotation options should someone go down.

 

[bosskeano]

His injury aside, he only managed 11 goals in 33 appearances, which won't be enough for them. They would be wise to upgrade, which would also give them more rotation options should someone go down.

he seems to like the mobile forwards like what they had at city when he worked under pep....but i certainly could see them going after someone in the summer like Thuram or Kolo Muani

the one that puzzles me is Smith Rowe and how he's going off the boil when he was a prime player for them two seasons ago

 

[Raoul]

he seems to like the mobile forwards like what they had at city when he worked under pep....but i certainly could see them going after someone in the summer like Thuram or Kolo Muani

the one that puzzles me is Smith Rowe and how he's going off the boil when he was a prime player for them two seasons ago

I think there's a lot of dead wood in their squad that could be upgraded (finances permitting of course). If they can sign a proper striker and midfielder, they will be in good shape next year, especially with Saliba returning. They do need to shed the delusion that Partay is good as Casemiro, which may already have happened given their interest in signing Rice.

 

[bosskeano]

I think there's a lot of dead wood in their squad that could be upgraded (finances permitting of course). If they can sign a proper striker and midfielder, they will be in good shape next year, especially with Saliba returning. They do need to shed the delusion that Partay is good as Casemiro, which may already have happened given their interest in signing Rice.

got a kick out of that myself with all this talk of Partey being on the same level as Casemiro....delusions of grandeur on their part

i think arsenal and united are in similar positions this summer that with the right signings, they could make for legit challengers next season

 

[Zagoon]

got a kick out of that myself with all this talk of Partey being on the same level as Casemiro....delusions of grandeur on their part

i think arsenal and united are in similar positions this summer that with the right signings, they could make for legit challengers next season

They are different players for different styles of play and systems, so I dont think its accurate to compare them really.

Partey is a press resistant player, able to hold the ball and move it efficiently to help Arsenal maintain their possession and momentum on the pitch.

Casemiro is more of an interceptor and good reader of the game, who gives United an ability to recover the ball, combine and build their counter attacks.

You rate the one higher, based on what you want your team to do.

 

[GoonerBear]

Why do United fans say that?

I'm pretty sure we are gonna get top 4 next season too, pending squad additions and no exodus of 1st team players.

Title challenge? nah....

We're on a Utd forum mate, so the only conceivable thing that can happen is that Utd will get better and everyone else will get worse.

 

[Raoul]

Why do United fans say that?

I'm pretty sure we are gonna get top 4 next season too, pending squad additions and no exodus of 1st team players.

Title challenge? nah....

United were 2nd in 2020/21 and finished 6th last season.

Nothing can be presumed for next year, especially since Newcastle, Liverpool, and a resurgent, Poch managed Chelsea will be in the mix as well.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Why do United fans say that?

I'm pretty sure we are gonna get top 4 next season too, pending squad additions and no exodus of 1st team players.

Title challenge? nah....

You won’t finish Top 2 next year, I’m happy to wager that with anyone.

We're on a Utd forum mate, so the only conceivable thing that can happen is that Utd will get better and everyone else will get worse.

Not really. This forum gives you lot far more bandwidth than I personally think you deserve, you’ve had a good run of form surrounded by mediocrity - the assumption you will regress to a rather large example of your mean is fair.

No one mentioned United, who after 1 season under EtH shouldn’t be expected to do much anyway.

 

[Daydreamer]

You won’t finish Top 2 next year, I’m happy to wager that with anyone.

Not really. This forum gives you lot far more bandwidth than I personally think you deserve, you’ve had a good run of form surrounded by mediocrity - the assumption you will regress to a rather large example of your mean is fair.

No one mentioned United, who after 1 season under EtH shouldn’t be expected to do much anyway.

That's stretching the definition of the word "form" pretty far. In 21/22 we missed out on CL football on the final game of the season. In 22/23 we were comfortably the second best team in the country. Obviously it's possible that we could fall out of contention for the top four next season, but 76 games isn't form - that's the our current level.

 

[roonster09]

Only team that is guaranteed to finish top 4 is City, rest all will be in the dog fight for the 3 positions.

Arsenal's second half performance wasn't good, Liverpool's second half performance was much better. So wouldn't be surprised to see Manutd, Arsenal finishing outside top 4, with Liverpool, Chelsea finishing top 4.

 

[Mindhunter]

We had an overall better season than them in my opinion. Won a trophy, in contention for another, and made the CL places. Second place gets no trophies.

 

[roonster09]

That's stretching the definition of the word "form" pretty far. In 21/22 we missed out on CL football on the final game of the season. In 22/23 we were comfortably the second best team in the country. Obviously it's possible that we could fall out of contention for the top four next season, but 76 games isn't form - that's the our current level.

Didn't some Arsenal fan post that this second half of the season was the same as any other halves Arsenal had, only 2022-23 first half of the season was outlier in Arteta's career?

 

[Daydreamer]

Didn't some Arsenal fan post that this second half of the season was the same as any other halves Arsenal had, only 2022-23 first half of the season was outlier in Arteta's career?

I dunno, you tell me. Did they?

It's true, though. We put up 50 points. The record is 55 points. That was achieved by Pep Guardiola 10 years into his career. Of course 50 points is the outlier half season in Arteta's career... he's three and a half seasons in.

 

[roonster09]

I dunno, you tell me. Did they?

It's true, though. We put up 50 points. The record is 55 points. That was achieved by Pep Guardiola 10 years into his career. Of course 50 points is the outlier half season in Arteta's career... he's three and a half seasons in.

Yes, someone posted it on Arsenal forum and it was copied here. Out of 7 halves, 6 of them followed same pattern with only one being different. Every reason to believe 6 halves are true level than one outlier.

There might be other reasons like he was cleaning the squad, building his team and all that but his second half of the season followed the other 5 halves. So who knows which Arsenal turns up next season, the 6 halves Arsenal or the 1 half Arsenal.

 

[Sviken]

Absolutely embarrassing season for Arsenal just for that last stretch. To do a bottlejob like that... at this point, who the feck cares about second place? You get no trophies for that. They got top 4 but given where they were for the entirety for the season, that in itself feels like a letdown.

 

[footyfan019]

Arsenal scored 88 goals in PL this season, striker will be least priority for us. The big games we have lost were due to lack of control in midfield, we will need to spend big to replace Xhaka and Partey. Also backup fullbacks are also needed since tomiyasu can't keep himself fit for even half a season. We need top players in the middle of the park if we want to compete against the big guns.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I think there's a lot of dead wood in their squad that could be upgraded (finances permitting of course). If they can sign a proper striker and midfielder, they will be in good shape next year, especially with Saliba returning. They do need to shed the delusion that Partay is good as Casemiro, which may already have happened given their interest in signing Rice.

Midfielder and center defender are the first two priorities before another striker. When Saliba went down there was a noticeable differences in defensive solidity especially in the 3 draws that preceded the City match. Striker would be good but not as important as those two positions especially with the CL on the table. Ideally, of course, all three positions are signed and some more depth is added, it would be nice to add a veteran somewhere who has tons of experience like Casemiro for United.

 

[Daydreamer]

Yes, someone posted it on Arsenal forum and it was copied here. Out of 7 halves, 6 of them followed same pattern with only one being different. Every reason to believe 6 halves are true level than one outlier.

There might be other reasons like he was cleaning the squad, building his team and all that but his second half of the season followed the other 5 halves. So who knows which Arsenal turns up next season, the 6 halves Arsenal or the 1 half Arsenal.

What's more likely is that future half seasons (seeing as that's the metric that suddenly seems to matter) will fall somewhere in between one of the best in PL history and a more modest points total. Arteta's track record is this:

1. 5th
2. 7th
3. 8th
4. 4th
5. 5th
6. 1st
7. 2nd

That averages out to 4.5 over his tenure. And that's ignoring the upwards trend in his full seasons (8th - 5th - 2nd) and the fact our young squad is likely to improve rather than deteriorate with each passing season.

Of course, it could still all go tits up. I just don't really get the reasoning behind the assumption that it automatically will.

 

[Daydreamer]

Midfielder and center defender are the first two priorities before another striker. When Saliba went down there was a noticeable differences in defensive solidity especially in the 3 draws that preceded the City match. Striker would be good but not as important as those two positions especially with the CL on the table. Ideally, of course, all three positions are signed and some more depth is added, it would be nice to add a veteran somewhere who has tons of experience like Casemiro for United.

I agree that midfield and defense are far more of a priority than striker. We lost Jesus and barely missed a beat. We lost Saliba / Tomiyasu and completely crumbled. Partey was fantastic for the vast majority of the season. However, a couple Italian clubs are rumoured to be in for him. And while I believe in due process, I think it may be in everyone's interests for him to move on.

 

[roonster09]

What's more likely is that future half seasons (seeing as that's the metric that suddenly seems to matter) will fall somewhere in between one of the best in PL history and a more modest points total. Arteta's track record is this:

1. 5th
2. 7th
3. 8th
4. 4th
5. 5th
6. 1st
7. 2nd

That averages out to 4.5 over his tenure. And that's ignoring the upwards trend in his full seasons (8th - 5th - 2nd) and the fact our young squad is likely to improve rather than deteriorate with each passing season.

Of course, it could still all go tits up. I just don't really get the reasoning behind the assumption that it automatically will.

Second half of this season, Arsenal are 4th, if we go by points per game, then they might be 5th of 6th too.

Arsenal got 34 points in 19 games, Villa and Newcastle got 33 and 32 points in 1 game less.

 

[Daydreamer]

Second half of this season, Arsenal are 4th, if we go by points per game, then they might be 5th of 6th too.

Arsenal got 34 points in 19 games, Villa and Newcastle got 33 and 32 points in 1 game less.

I'll defer to your figures. I was using 1x2stats.com as my source, but that may be incorrect. I'm pretty certain about these ones, though.

• 20/21 - 8th
• 21/22 - 5th
• 22/23 - 2nd

We finished 8th in his first season, but we were bottom half when he took over. We would have been 5th based on his matches alone.

I think solidifying ourselves in the top four next year is a realistic aim. I'd love for us to challenge for the title. Actually winning it would require us to strengthen our squad considerably. But who knows, it might happen.

 

[vanrooney]

arsenal wint get top4 next year imo. it will be city and newcastle liverpool and us.

 

[roonster09]

I'll defer to your figures. I was using 1x2stats.com as my source, but that may be incorrect. I'm pretty certain about these ones, though.

• 20/21 - 8th
• 21/22 - 5th
• 22/23 - 2nd

We finished 8th in his first season, but we were bottom half when he took over. We would have been 5th based on his matches alone.

I think solidifying ourselves in the top four next year is a realistic aim. I'd love for us to challenge for the title. Actually winning it would require us to strengthen our squad considerably. But who knows, it might happen.

2022-23 is wrong, maybe you are counting pre and post world cup as half of the season. I went with 19 games.

In the second 19 games, Arsenal got 34 points in 19 games. That puts them in 5th place in points per game behind City, Liverpool, ManUtd, Villa.

 

[Daydreamer]

2022-23 is wrong, maybe you are counting pre and post world cup as half of the season. I went with 19 games.

In the second 19 games, Arsenal got 34 points in 19 games. That puts them in 5th place in points per game behind City, Liverpool, ManUtd, Villa.

Fair play. That seems intuitively right, anyway.

 

[GoonerBear]

You won’t finish Top 2 next year, I’m happy to wager that with anyone.

Not really. This forum gives you lot far more bandwidth than I personally think you deserve, you’ve had a good run of form surrounded by mediocrity - the assumption you will regress to a rather large example of your mean is fair.

No one mentioned United, who after 1 season under EtH shouldn’t be expected to do much anyway.

My comment is a bit in jest anyway. We're on a Utd forum, of course it's going to have a Utd bias, I'd be pretty stupid to expect otherwise. I just find all the bold predictions a bit pointless just now.

 

[Changeisgood]

I think there's a lot of dead wood in their squad that could be upgraded (finances permitting of course). If they can sign a proper striker and midfielder, they will be in good shape next year, especially with Saliba returning. They do need to shed the delusion that Partay is good as Casemiro, which may already have happened given their interest in signing Rice.

I don't see Partey as a comparison to Casemiro or I am not seeing them right. Casemiro reminds me more of our old Gilberto Silva. Partey actually was really solid until our last 10 games. And...He was pretty horrid over the last 10...looked a bit lazy and unfocused as well. and he wasn't the only one unfortunately. Combined with Saliba going down, defensively it was a disaster. Main reason for our collapse right there in going 3w 3 d 3 l . Arteta lost patience with him too, that much was obvious.

One of the players that lost a bit of shine over the same period is Saka, who was phenomenal most of the season. In the last month or two he has been tentative and quite frankly predictable. Yesterday was the first day he decided to drive forward again. Very young still, but he needs to keep pushing himself. Zinny was another one who completely lost form. We should have played Tierney more over that stretch. Hindsight though....Too many downs at the same time combined with the fact this was our toughest stretch.

 

[bosskeano]

They are different players for different styles of play and systems, so I dont think its accurate to compare them really.

Partey is a press resistant player, able to hold the ball and move it efficiently to help Arsenal maintain their possession and momentum on the pitch.

Casemiro is more of an interceptor and good reader of the game, who gives United an ability to recover the ball, combine and build their counter attacks.

You rate the one higher, based on what you want your team to do.

i didn't do it mate your own supporters have been doing it all season

 

[Raoul]

Midfielder and center defender are the first two priorities before another striker. When Saliba went down there was a noticeable differences in defensive solidity especially in the 3 draws that preceded the City match. Striker would be good but not as important as those two positions especially with the CL on the table. Ideally, of course, all three positions are signed and some more depth is added, it would be nice to add a veteran somewhere who has tons of experience like Casemiro for United.

Well Saliba is back so that takes care of the deficiency there. Striker is more important imo because if you're Arsenal and you're trying to catch City next year, you're not going to do that with a striker who may knock in about 15-20 goals all year, at a time when Haaland is scoring upwards of 50 for City. The dynamic for all clubs chasing City has therefore now changed to where a high scoring striker will be essential for any club with realistic title aspirations. This applies to United as well, which is why going after the likes of Kane and Osimhen makes all the sense in the world.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Well Saliba is back so that takes care of the deficiency there. Striker is more important imo because if you're Arsenal and you're trying to catch City next year, you're not going to do that with a striker who may knock in about 15-20 goals all year, at a time when Haaland is scoring upwards of 50 for City. The dynamic for all clubs chasing City has therefore now changed to where a high scoring striker will be essential for any club with realistic title aspirations. This applies to United as well, which is why going after the likes of Kane and Osimhen makes all the sense in the world.

It doesn't at all because the deficiency is in depth at CB. With European football being added plus the possibility of injury, it's essentially to get in a reliable third CB for rotation and injury. The priority should 100% be CB and Mid before a striker but as I said, a striker is definitely 3rd or 4th most important. Have to see how much the club is willing to invest, a problem which you won't have.

 

[Dominos]

arsenal wint get top4 next year imo. it will be city and newcastle liverpool and us.

Way too early to say, but don't really get this at all.

Arsenal have the youngest squad in the league so they have the most room for organic growth out of any team. There's also no reason to think they won't invest as they have been doing every summer, except this time they know they'll have CL revenue.

Newcastle will go from no Europe this season to European games next season, so instantly there's a potential downturn in their league form that doesn't really apply to the other contenders as the rest have achieved what they've achieved whilst already dealing with the extra fixtures. They've also took a giant leap from relegation candidates to CL places in 18 months which feels like they might be massively overachieving, whereas Arsenal have gradually improved to get to this point. Newcastle are more likely to drop out than Arsenal I think.

United as long as we get our transfer business done we should be fine, however we have a real possibility that we don't get the summer business done as the Glazers are pissing about not allowing the new owners a chance to be in charge for the transfer window, and as long as the Glazers remain they'll not be arsed about spending on the squad as they're leaving anyway.

The only thing you would say about a potential Arsenal downturn is at some point they'll have to take the other competitions seriously and not just focus purely on the league. But I think that will be offset by their summer business and the improvement of their young squad.

 

[Raoul]

It doesn't at all because the deficiency is in depth at CB. With European football being added plus the possibility of injury, it's essentially to get in a reliable third CB for rotation and injury. The priority should 100% be CB and Mid before a striker but as I said, a striker is definitely 3rd or 4th most important. Have to see how much the club is willing to invest, a problem which you won't have.

You're not going to catch City in the league by adding a CB. A more likely scenario would be that Arsenal plummet from 2nd to 5th next year with Liverpool, Newcastle, and a resurgent Poch-led Chelsea competing for top 4.

 

[GoonerBear]

You're not going to catch City in the league by adding a CB. A more likely scenario would be that Arsenal plummet from 2nd to 5th next year with Liverpool, Newcastle, and a resurgent Poch-led Chelsea competing for top 4.

To be fair, he didn't say just a centre back. I've no doubt we'll spend a decent amount, we'll buy 3 or 4 very good players. However, I'm not sure 1 will be a striker and I actually suspect you could be right, that ultimately we'll need a top level striker if we want to really compete consistently.

The trouble is, there's a real lack of them at the moment.

 

[AshRK]

xG has Man City in first and Arsenal in second... isn't that a better measure?


Unless my final table is wrong it shows us in 2nd on xpts as well. Man Utd is actually down to 6th it looks like.

https://understat.com/league/EPL

This shows United have missed the most huge chances. That holds good for us, similar to Klopp's first full season.

 

[TopDog]

arsenal wint get top4 next year imo. it will be city and newcastle liverpool and us.

Didn't Man Utd finish with a +15 GD? compared to Arsenals +45!? I know which club I would bet on to fall out of top 4.

 

[TopDog]

You're not going to catch City in the league by adding a CB. A more likely scenario would be that Arsenal plummet from 2nd to 5th next year with Liverpool, Newcastle, and a resurgent Poch-led Chelsea competing for top 4.

Why would they plummet? such a talented young squad. They will certainly finish above Utd, Chelsea and Spurs. I fancy Liverpool to have a strong season, and obviously the cheats will be right up there likely 1st.

 

[Changeisgood]

City won't be caught in all likelihood...2024-2025 might be more interesting.

I don't see Chelsea going straight back into the top 4 even if they spend another 800.mil or whatever it was. Top 6-7 should be their goal. Never know though....Poch could hit the ground running but I suspect it will take him some time to build a functional team. Challenging for a 2024-2025 CL spot is more realistic.

 

[Raoul]

Why would they plummet? such a talented young squad. They will certainly finish above Utd, Chelsea and Spurs. I fancy Liverpool to have a strong season, and obviously the cheats will be right up there likely 1st.

Chelsea have a talented squad as well. And as we’ve seen before, finishing 2nd doesn’t mean you finish first the next year. You could easily finish 5th, depending on how much the competition have improved.

 

[Daydreamer]

You're not going to catch City in the league by adding a CB. A more likely scenario would be that Arsenal plummet from 2nd to 5th next year with Liverpool, Newcastle, and a resurgent Poch-led Chelsea competing for top 4.

City only scored 6 goals more than us. We scored 88 goals. A full 30 more than the team directly below us in 3rd. A lot of these posts read like trying to will our downfall into existence.