The 3 Year Rebuilding Process

Oranges038

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Oct 19, 2020
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I genuinely think it takes 3 years to gut and rebuild a football squad, not only to rebuild, but you also have to factor in the bedding in process for new players and time it takes to build up good relationships and understanding on and off the pitch for you to finally see consistency on the pitch. It's much easier for players to come into a functional setup and succeed or hit the ground running. This current hodge podge mess of a squad is just a toxic dumping ground that contaminates new signings and drags them down.

The club setup needs restructuring in terms of planning and recruitment, there needs to be a long term plan put in place, whereby over a number of years you rebuild the squad, to the point where every year you're only looking at adding or replacing 1 or 2 players. We can't constantly be scrambling around every window looking for 5 of 6 players to plug holes.

Here's what I think we need.

3 Gk

2 RB
2 LB
4 CBs

2 Defensive mid / deep playmakers
4 Midfielders / 2 box to box / 2 attacking

4 Wingers
2 Strikers

2 Utility players basically John O'Shea / Park types that can play in DF/MF/FW when needed.

If my maths is correct that's 24 players, which you can supplement with youth players to fill in gaps every now and then. So if you look 3 years down the road, how many of this current squad are actually going to be useful.

GK: Onana? Questionable, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
GK: Backups Bayindir? Maybe + 1

DF: Martinez, will be 28 and at his peak.
DF: Shaw? He will be 31, will need replacing at some point, but he could still be useful.

MF: Bruno - will 31 will need replacing
MF: Mount - he's got the right age profile. Should be coming into his peak as a player.
MF: Mainoo, lets just pretend he comes good for the sake of argument.

FW: Rashford, again will be 29 - should be still a useful player if he can hit his purple patches more regularly.
FW: Hojlund, assuming he can cut the mustard.
FW: Garnacho, if he can develop as hoped.

That's 10 players I count out of this current squad that I think will have any sort of useful value to the team in 3 years. We could think that Amad, Pellestri, Hannibal, Gore etc might do something, but we've not seen enough from them to suggest there's enough there yet to make that call. There needs to be a progression plan to develop and integrate these young players or you may as well cash in early.

There's a huge amount of work to be done to turn this squad into something resembling a team that can compete at the top consistently over a number of years.

Aside from those players mentioned above, the rest of the first team squad will need to be phased out and replaced over the next few windows. Thats 15+ players out and a similar number required to come in. There needs to be set programme put in place, put players on 1,2 & 3 years lists in terms of usefulness, age etc and phase them out and replace over that period.

It's a mammoth task, but if it's not done right, then we're just going to be going round in circles for another decade. And the likes of fecking Dalot will probably still be at the club in 10 years. The thoughts of that alone should be enough to make everyone realise, the situation the club is in now is totally shit, but unless the forward planning and hard decisions are made now, it's going to continue to be shit for a long long time to come.
 
Why is it always a rebuild with us? What’s wrong with progressive, incremental improvement like at other clubs?
 
Oranges038 said:
I genuinely think it takes 3 years to gut and rebuild a football squad, not only to rebuild, but you also have to factor in the bedding in process for new players and time it takes to build up good relationships and understanding on and off the pitch for you to finally see consistency on the pitch. It's much easier for players to come into a functional setup and succeed or hit the ground running. This current hodge podge mess of a squad is just a toxic dumping ground that contaminates new signings and drags them down.

The club setup needs restructuring in terms of planning and recruitment, there needs to be a long term plan put in place, whereby over a number of years you rebuild the squad, to the point where every year you're only looking at adding or replacing 1 or 2 players. We can't constantly be scrambling around every window looking for 5 of 6 players to plug holes.

Here's what I think we need.

3 Gk

2 RB
2 LB
4 CBs

2 Defensive mid / deep playmakers
4 Midfielders / 2 box to box / 2 attacking

4 Wingers
2 Strikers

2 Utility players basically John O'Shea / Park types that can play in DF/MF/FW when needed.

If my maths is correct that's 24 players, which you can supplement with youth players to fill in gaps every now and then. So if you look 3 years down the road, how many of this current squad are actually going to be useful.

GK: Onana? Questionable, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
GK: Backups Bayindir? Maybe + 1

DF: Martinez, will be 28 and at his peak.
DF: Shaw? He will be 31, will need replacing at some point, but he could still be useful.

MF: Bruno - will 31 will need replacing
MF: Mount - he's got the right age profile. Should be coming into his peak as a player.
MF: Mainoo, lets just pretend he comes good for the sake of argument.

FW: Rashford, again will be 29 - should be still a useful player if he can hit his purple patches more regularly.
FW: Hojlund, assuming he can cut the mustard.
FW: Garnacho, if he can develop as hoped.

That's 10 players I count out of this current squad that I think will have any sort of useful value to the team in 3 years. We could think that Amad, Pellestri, Hannibal, Gore etc might do something, but we've not seen enough from them to suggest there's enough there yet to make that call. There needs to be a progression plan to develop and integrate these young players or you may as well cash in early.

There's a huge amount of work to be done to turn this squad into something resembling a team that can compete at the top consistently over a number of years.

Aside from those players mentioned above, the rest of the first team squad will need to be phased out and replaced over the next few windows. Thats 15+ players out and a similar number required to come in. There needs to be set programme put in place, put players on 1,2 & 3 years lists in terms of usefulness, age etc and phase them out and replace over that period.

It's a mammoth task, but if it's not done right, then we're just going to be going round in circles for another decade. And the likes of fecking Dalot will probably still be at the club in 10 years. The thoughts of that alone should be enough to make everyone realise, the situation the club is in now is totally shit, but unless the forward planning and hard decisions are made now, it's going to continue to be shit for a long long time to come.
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We've had this exact discussion for years. It's time to realise this is just whistling in the wind until the club has put in place a structure capable of carrying out a successful rebuild. We clearly do not have one at present.
 
Cloud7 said:
Why is it always a rebuild with us? What’s wrong with progressive, incremental improvement like at other clubs?
Click to expand...

3 years is an incremental approach.

After that, incremental improvements can only be made when you have a decent starting point. Phasing out and replacing a couple of players every year. You don't get that when you lurch from manager to manager who all have different styles and want different players. 10 years of bad planning and squad building have led to this, it's not going to change unless drastic measures are taken.

This squad is a patchwork of 4 managers at least now. A hard reset is required to put a proper plan in place to target and develop the right players and then target the right coaches to build those players into a team.

Or we could be happy to continue with the overpaid shite we have and keep going round in circles hoping the next coach or the one after is the guy to fix it.
 
There’s far too much unmovable overpaid dead wood from top to bottom to start any rebuild.
 
Oranges038 said:
I genuinely think it takes 3 years to gut and rebuild a football squad, not only to rebuild, but you also have to factor in the bedding in process for new players and time it takes to build up good relationships and understanding on and off the pitch for you to finally see consistency on the pitch. It's much easier for players to come into a functional setup and succeed or hit the ground running. This current hodge podge mess of a squad is just a toxic dumping ground that contaminates new signings and drags them down.

The club setup needs restructuring in terms of planning and recruitment, there needs to be a long term plan put in place, whereby over a number of years you rebuild the squad, to the point where every year you're only looking at adding or replacing 1 or 2 players. We can't constantly be scrambling around every window looking for 5 of 6 players to plug holes.

Here's what I think we need.

3 Gk

2 RB
2 LB
4 CBs

2 Defensive mid / deep playmakers
4 Midfielders / 2 box to box / 2 attacking

4 Wingers
2 Strikers

2 Utility players basically John O'Shea / Park types that can play in DF/MF/FW when needed.

If my maths is correct that's 24 players, which you can supplement with youth players to fill in gaps every now and then. So if you look 3 years down the road, how many of this current squad are actually going to be useful.

GK: Onana? Questionable, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
GK: Backups Bayindir? Maybe + 1

DF: Martinez, will be 28 and at his peak.
DF: Shaw? He will be 31, will need replacing at some point, but he could still be useful.

MF: Bruno - will 31 will need replacing
MF: Mount - he's got the right age profile. Should be coming into his peak as a player.
MF: Mainoo, lets just pretend he comes good for the sake of argument.

FW: Rashford, again will be 29 - should be still a useful player if he can hit his purple patches more regularly.
FW: Hojlund, assuming he can cut the mustard.
FW: Garnacho, if he can develop as hoped.

That's 10 players I count out of this current squad that I think will have any sort of useful value to the team in 3 years. We could think that Amad, Pellestri, Hannibal, Gore etc might do something, but we've not seen enough from them to suggest there's enough there yet to make that call. There needs to be a progression plan to develop and integrate these young players or you may as well cash in early.

There's a huge amount of work to be done to turn this squad into something resembling a team that can compete at the top consistently over a number of years.

Aside from those players mentioned above, the rest of the first team squad will need to be phased out and replaced over the next few windows. Thats 15+ players out and a similar number required to come in. There needs to be set programme put in place, put players on 1,2 & 3 years lists in terms of usefulness, age etc and phase them out and replace over that period.

It's a mammoth task, but if it's not done right, then we're just going to be going round in circles for another decade. And the likes of fecking Dalot will probably still be at the club in 10 years. The thoughts of that alone should be enough to make everyone realise, the situation the club is in now is totally shit, but unless the forward planning and hard decisions are made now, it's going to continue to be shit for a long long time to come.
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Sorry but this 3 year rebuild is guff. Does it mean that we write off 3 years? ETH has signed a dozen players, how many does he need? He even benched 2 off his major signings for the City match. The squad we have has big issues but its full of seasoned internationals with loads of caps. How do they get picked for their countries? Emre at Villa and Spurs have shown top coaches don't need years and a squad of their own signigns to achieve decent football and clear styles of play.

I think what a top coach can be expected to do and overhauling our football structure are seperate issues. We need to do the latter and that is a multi year process, where we have a DOF and better scouting and a coach that works within that. So that players that can survive a change in manager and are well scouted are signed, not the current awful, awful signings that we could all see coming but somehow Murtough and others could not
 
justsomebloke said:
We've had this exact discussion for years. It's time to realise this is just whistling in the wind until the club has put in place a structure capable of carrying out a successful rebuild. We clearly do not have one at present.
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Yes, but unless people realise this is what has to happen, then you just end up with these circular arguments where people thing the manager just needs to be replaced. Whilst others think that he needs time and a proper structure behind him to be successful. Then you get accused of buying into the cult of the manager.

Fans need to realise the entire football side of the club is a mess, that there is no magic cure that can be found by bringing in a new coach every 2 years. There needs to be a long term plan put in place to reset and rebuild.
 
Gordon Godot said:
Sorry but this 3 year rebuild is guff. Does it mean that we write off 3 years? ETH has signed a dozen players, how many does he need? He even benched 2 off his major signings for the City match. The squad we have has big issues but its full of seasoned internationals with loads of caps. How do they get picked for their countries? Emre at Villa and Spurs have shown top coaches don't need years and a squad of their own signigns to achieve decent football and clear styles of play.

I think what a top coach can be expected to do and overhauling our football structure are seperate issues. We need to do the latter and that is a multi year process, where we have a DOF and better scouting and a coach that works within that. So that players that can survive a change in manager and are well scouted are signed, not the current awful, awful signings that we could all see coming but somehow Murtough and others could not
Click to expand...

It takes 3 years, because you always have to be looking 3 years down the line at how useful each player is going to be and have plans in place to replace and integrate new players. This squad is a mess and 3 years in being ambitious in my book.

But, again you're missing the point, I'm not talking about ETH or his signings, I'm looking at how to rebuild the squad to ensure it is competitive long term, so that you can change coach if it's not working out after 12 months and target someone else who can fit the profile of the squad.

Lvg - zombie possession football
Jose - low block, counter depressing football
Ole - counter attack from the 90s
ETH - supposed to be transitions with control - no idea what it is now.

That's what we're dealing with. Players from 4 coaches who all had different styles. There's no cure for that, only to clear the decks over a couple of years and put a proper plan in place on how to build a squad that can cope with minor adjustments to the setup and playing style.

Everyone bangs on about De Zerbi, but he took what Brighton and Pottter had built and added his own new ideas, there was no drastic change in approach. Just a few tweaks here and there in the build up and attacking phases and they went from not scoring enough goals to banging them in regularly.
 
Truth be told all our squad members are shite or at the very best not gonna be contributing 3 years from now.

Onana : shaky. Will continue to be erratic and be sold unceremoniously in 3 years time

Shaw : old
Varane : injury prone
Maguire : shit
Martinez : probably useful somehow
Awb : shit, passable as backup at best
Dalot: shit

Casemiro : Old
Amrabat : not good enough, another Fred Mk2
McT : not good enough
Casemiro : leg is gone. Close to useless
Hannibal : shit, not good enough
Pellestri : not good enough
Garnacho : Januzan mk2
Antony : shit
Sancho : shit
Bruno : shit

Rashford : shit
Martial : shit

The only one good player for 3 years from now is Hojlund, and that's if we dont already ruined him

400m for this collection of garbage. Well done Ten Haag
 
Sky1981 said:
Truth be told all our squad members are shite or at the very best not gonna be contributing 3 years from now.

Onana : shaky. Will continue to be erratic and be sold unceremoniously in 3 years time

Shaw : old
Varane : injury prone
Maguire : shit
Martinez : probably useful somehow
Awb : shit, passable as backup at best
Dalot: shit

Casemiro : Old
Amrabat : not good enough, another Fred Mk2
McT : not good enough
Casemiro : leg is gone. Close to useless
Hannibal : shit, not good enough
Pellestri : not good enough
Garnacho : Januzan mk2
Antony : shit
Sancho : shit
Bruno : shit

Rashford : shit
Martial : shit

The only one good player for 3 years from now is Hojlund, and that's if we dont already ruined him

400m for this collection of garbage. Well done Ten Haag
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Your negativity is relentless. You have no idea what is happening today, let alone in 3 years time.
 
I find this 3 year rebuild BS extremely frustrating

a- Why 3 is the magic number? Why isn't it 5 or 4 or 2 or 1?
b- Such project doesn't take in account rivals. United may improve from 1 to 4 but if City go up from 5 to 10, Liverpool go up from 3 to 7, Arsenal from 4 to 8 and Brighton/Spurs/Villa go up from 2 to 6 then we're still in the mud
c- United had never made any rebuild. The facilities are still neglected, we're still run by business people/people with no prior experience in their role, Woodward is still in the club in some capacity and his people (Murtough and Arnold) still hold the chief roles with most people appointed by them. That explains why United still overspend in salaries and fees, why our scouting department can't find talent, why the manager is still allowed to decide almost everything, why our fitness regimen is mush, why we struggle to get rid of players and why we leak more then the titanic. You don't polish a turd and call it a prince unless of course we're talking of Andrew
 
The word "rebuild" needs to be banned from this club. Anyone using this word has no credibility.
 
We need to give someone chance to do so. Whether that be Ten Hag or a director or football, but it needs a coherent thread. We’ve got so many players from different managers clogging up the squad, made even worse by the fact each appointment was a total 180 from the last. Just pick something and stick to it.
 
Sky1981 said:
I don't dwell in false positivity

Our forward haven't score in so many moon, we have a -5 GD, so yeah... we're pretty shit
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I suppose if you are looking short term, then it is easy to let negativity consume you. However, change is afoot in terms of restructuring our football operations and recruitment. In 3 years time that should bear fruit. This, in addition to the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho, Højlund, plus various other players from the academy who may step up in that time, we will hopefully be seeing better times.
 
You are completely correct. It doesn't mean you write off 3 years. You can do well while rebuilding. But writing off 3 years before a realistic title challenge, I mean yeah that should be obvious. We aren't in an easy league. The prem is the toughest league with the best managers around. You can rebuild in fewer than 3 years with some absolute luck (and having no fixture congestion to be able to focus purely on the league), but when competing with the best managers and squads, you'll realistically need a few years to get there in the best case scenario. That's assuming you get the right manager in and start making the right transfers/decisions. And you still have to compete with Pep and City, so it ultimately might not be enough. Will be easier when Pep leaves, and people need to understand that he is right up there with Sir Alex if not higher in terms of getting a squad to be able to dominate leagues. Its unrealistic to expect your manager will be at that level.

But almost every decision of squad building should absolutely be geared towards peaking as a group, a few years from now. Arsenal built their side well. Chelsea are doing a good job, and while they feck up regularly, eventually having a young group like Enzo and Caicedo will pay off. Sure sometimes you get a stop gap, but that should be a cheap signing to fill a need while you wait for the right player. We should not be spending significant sums on an older player pretty much ever, with the ONLY exception being if we are really confident that we are close to winning trophies and just missing 1 piece, and that world class player for 50-100m who is 28 will bridge that gap to get us there. Even then, it's a massive risk. So that means already being solidified as a top team, already challenging, but maybe not having enough to get over the line (see RvP in 2012 for us...). Kane for Bayern is the same idea, but also likely one where the risk doesn't pay off as the intention in his signing is to win the CL. So his signing isn't that much of a success for them unless they do that.
 
Skills said:
The word "rebuild" needs to be banned from this club. Anyone using this word has no credibility.
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What's wrong with the term? Do you expect any manager to come in and compete with Pep Guardiola and their squad in the first 2 years? Because that is wildly unrealistic.
 
Three years is too long, time doesn't wait for anyone so we need to get our act together and identify the positions that need filling so as to ensure we have a competitive side regardless of who is coaching the team. We need to weed out the mentally, technically and physically weak players first. That means bye bye to the likes of -
Dalot
Maguire
McTominay
Malacia
Lindelof
Antony

The likes of Casemiro and Varane will be in the Saudi League by July, its almost a certainty. So we need a starting RB, 2 CBs (one a starter and another a reliable back up), a DM, CM playmaker (from the gaps within the current squad, a back up LB and a good and experienced striker. That's 7 players and we can't buy more than 4 per window so we will start with the most crucial - CB with physicality and ball playing abilities, DM, a journeyman striker and a RW.

We can supplement the CM role by keeping Eriksen and promoting Mainoo. Using Eriksen to start for an hour against the shit teams and blooding in Mainoo in the second half of the season.

When the striker and RW positions are sorted with players that actually contribute then pressure, importance and attention shifts from Bruno and Rashford which I think will actually help them.

The key thing is replacing Varane, Dalot, Casemiro, Antony and McTominay as starters. That removes the inbuilt vulnerabilities we have and increases creativity. This should be done in the first phase (between January and the Summer) and we will see improvements. From then on its a matter of belief and confidence.
 
There's no such thing. That's what United fans are convincing themselves to defend our frauds of managers that keep on getting hired. It took Newcastle one year to transform from a relegation fodder to an established top 4 team.
 
bosnian_red said:
You are completely correct. It doesn't mean you write off 3 years. You can do well while rebuilding. But writing off 3 years before a realistic title challenge, I mean yeah that should be obvious. We aren't in an easy league. The prem is the toughest league with the best managers around. You can rebuild in fewer than 3 years with some absolute luck (and having no fixture congestion to be able to focus purely on the league), but when competing with the best managers and squads, you'll realistically need a few years to get there in the best case scenario. That's assuming you get the right manager in and start making the right transfers/decisions. And you still have to compete with Pep and City, so it ultimately might not be enough. Will be easier when Pep leaves, and people need to understand that he is right up there with Sir Alex if not higher in terms of getting a squad to be able to dominate leagues. Its unrealistic to expect your manager will be at that level.

But almost every decision of squad building should absolutely be geared towards peaking as a group, a few years from now. Arsenal built their side well. Chelsea are doing a good job, and while they feck up regularly, eventually having a young group like Enzo and Caicedo will pay off. Sure sometimes you get a stop gap, but that should be a cheap signing to fill a need while you wait for the right player. We should not be spending significant sums on an older player pretty much ever, with the ONLY exception being if we are really confident that we are close to winning trophies and just missing 1 piece, and that world class player for 50-100m who is 28 will bridge that gap to get us there. Even then, it's a massive risk. So that means already being solidified as a top team, already challenging, but maybe not having enough to get over the line (see RvP in 2012 for us...). Kane for Bayern is the same idea, but also likely one where the risk doesn't pay off as the intention in his signing is to win the CL. So his signing isn't that much of a success for them unless they do that.
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People like to think that football is markedly different that what it was 15/20 years ago. But the process of building a squad to peak together is always the same. If you look at the rugby, teams gear towards peaking at the WC. Winning a tri nations or a 6 nations in between is grand, but the focus is on building a squad that will peak come world cup time.

The process of building a team is always the same. SAF always said you need to look 3/4 years down the line. It took him 6 years to build a team that he could win with and then transition to the next phase, when that team peaked between 99&03, We had Chelsea buying up everyone and looked at a rebuild process that took us up to a team that was peaking from 2006-2011, in between we had Miller, Djemba 2 and several other shite bags along the way, those were some lean years but Utd were still competitive. That rebuild peaked with 3 CL finals and finished with a league title and he left. But that one was a tumescent affair.

While the rebuild is ongoing, you have to maintain a competitive level. To show signs you are heading in the right direction. That's pretty much a given at a top club.

I see the reactions already here and I know many people think it's bollocks, but for me, they are deluded. Especially if you look at the state of this squad. If you think that way, then you don't realise how astute SAF was at building and maintaining a successful club over 20 years. Because he was always building with these 3 year cycles in mind.
 
el3mel said:
There's no such thing. That's what United fans are convincing themselves to defend our frauds of managers that keep on getting hired. It took Newcastle one year to transform from a relegation fodder to an established top 4 team.
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One top 4 finish and are currently 6th, 2 points ahead of Utd.

That's an established top 4 team now?
 
Oranges038 said:
3 Gk

2 RB
2 LB
4 CBs

2 Defensive mid / deep playmakers
4 Midfielders / 2 box to box / 2 attacking

4 Wingers
2 Strikers

2 Utility players basically John O'Shea / Park types that can play in DF/MF/FW when needed.

If my maths is correct that's 24 players,
Click to expand...

Your maths are incorrect, it's 25 players.
 
Oranges038 said:
One top 4 finish and are currently 6th, 2 points ahead of Utd.

That's an established top 4 team now?
Click to expand...

Newcastle didn't deserve to lose against City and Liverpool and that's what hurt them in the table but since then they have been putting on great results and getting closer to where they were last season.

Meanwhile our fraud is getting humiliated left, right and center by any semi decent team, including Newcastle themselves.

Get over it.
 
Tifo Football made a video on this exact dilemma months ago but most people dismissed it.

 
bosnian_red said:
What's wrong with the term? Do you expect any manager to come in and compete with Pep Guardiola and their squad in the first 2 years? Because that is wildly unrealistic.
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It is, but you should be able to see and assess progress in a much shorter time frame.

A lot of United fans tend to think managers can only be judged fairly after they rebuild the entire team and squad. Which is stupid.

So for people who believe a manager can be judged earlier than after exchanging the whole squad the term "rebuild" has become synonymous to ignoring what is happening until the rebuild is done.

As such it's not wrong to speak of a rebuild, but as by now it seems to be associated with manager cults instead of an approach of continuous improvement and review of it, it is a term that should be avoided.
 
All these 3 year circles. Next thing you know your on your death bed.

At Man United yo should get a rolling season by season review unless to win a major honour.
 
Thought Ten Hag himself said in the summer that he was now happy with the squad, when asked about the rebuild. United are mugs if they keep going down this rebuild route - there are so many examples of managers lifting underperforming squads to much higher levels. Why don't they just expect that instead of writing years off? It's actually bonkers how we act, and some fans lap it up. There's a perfect example at Spurs - everybody including me thought that was a really poor squad bar Son, and nobody expected anything from Ange. His appointment barely made a ripple with opposition fans. Yet now look.
 
A proper club should always be looking 3 years ahead. You see someone is ageing, you get in a young replacement and build them up ready to take their place, or you buy a young, proven talent when the time comes, but you should always have an eye on that in advance.

Take Varane for instance, firstly we shouldn't have signed him as it's obvious he's either injury prone or burned out, but now we have, where is the plan to replace him? It should already be in motion. Do we have a young player who could make the step up? No, we do't, so we look to the market for a young player who is making a name for themselves. We get them in early, and then we slowly bed them in so that when Varane either get injured or fecks off to Saudi Arabia, we don't need to panic buy another over the hill player.

It's hardly rocket science, and yet it seems that all of our purchases over the past few years have been reactive, rather than proactive.
 
Oranges038 said:
Yes, but unless people realise this is what has to happen, then you just end up with these circular arguments where people thing the manager just needs to be replaced. Whilst others think that he needs time and a proper structure behind him to be successful. Then you get accused of buying into the cult of the manager.

Fans need to realise the entire football side of the club is a mess, that there is no magic cure that can be found by bringing in a new coach every 2 years. There needs to be a long term plan put in place to reset and rebuild.
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But the rebuild discussion is also circular. It's what OGS was supposed to do, it's what EtH was supposed to do. I have my thoughts like everyone else about positional needs, but at the moment that just feels pointless. So is the discussion about replacing the manager, really. That should only happen when there is no other possibility. But this time it may also be a question if we should stick with him even if performance and results collapses protractedly to the point experienced under late Ole and Rangnick with no sign of improvement, and rather ditch enough first team players to send the message that it's adapt or leave. But then he needs to be supported by a better structure around him, otherwise that's pointless.
 
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Big Andy said:
A proper club should always be looking 3 years ahead. You see someone is ageing, you get in a young replacement and build them up ready to take their place, or you buy a young, proven talent when the time comes, but you should always have an eye on that in advance.

Take Varane for instance, firstly we shouldn't have signed him as it's obvious he's either injury prone or burned out, but now we have, where is the plan to replace him? It should already be in motion. Do we have a young player who could make the step up? No, we do't, so we look to the market for a young player who is making a name for themselves. We get them in early, and then we slowly bed them in so that when Varane either get injured or fecks off to Saudi Arabia, we don't need to panic buy another over the hill player.

It's hardly rocket science, and yet it seems that all of our purchases over the past few years have been reactive, rather than proactive.
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Yes, and this is unlikely to happen if transfer policy is so dictated by the manager, whose first priority is always going to be performing now. Because if he doesn't he's not going to be around in three years, especially at this club. He has every incentive to be reactive. So this too comes back to the structure around the manager.
 
We need 3 years after 3 years after 3 years after 3 years after…..
 
el3mel said:
Newcastle didn't deserve to lose against City and Liverpool and that's what hurt them in the table but since then they have been putting on great results and getting closer to where they were last season.

Meanwhile our fraud is getting humiliated left, right and center by any semi decent team, including Newcastle themselves.

Get over it.
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You are totally missing the point, but you seem stuck to your dismissal of ETH and true cry baby fashion want it all now. Sadly the real world doesn't work like that.

This is not about ETH or any manager, this is about the structure of building a squad that will peak and maintain a level of competitiveness over a number of years. Like it or not, it will take at least 3 years to see the results.

This about looking at the current squad and evaluating whether or not players are going to be useful in 3 years. Hence, why we need to be looking right now at putting in a 3 year rebuild and succession plan. Over that time frame you analyse and upgrade the players as needed. You put each one in the 1,2,3 category and you build towards creating a squad that will work. No matter who you bring in. You see what Real do, that's the way to do it. Sort out big positions for long term and focus on maintaining the support around that.

So that when the time comes around, you have built a squad that doesn't need huge surgery every year. It just needs a little nip and tuck in a couple of places and it's going to keep it's momentum. Then you have termed plans on how to phase out and bed in new players.
 
Sky1981 said:
Truth be told all our squad members are shite or at the very best not gonna be contributing 3 years from now.

Onana : shaky. Will continue to be erratic and be sold unceremoniously in 3 years time

Shaw : old
Varane : injury prone
Maguire : shit
Martinez : probably useful somehow
Awb : shit, passable as backup at best
Dalot: shit

Casemiro : Old
Amrabat : not good enough, another Fred Mk2
McT : not good enough
Casemiro : leg is gone. Close to useless
Hannibal : shit, not good enough
Pellestri : not good enough
Garnacho : Januzan mk2
Antony : shit
Sancho : shit
Bruno : shit

Rashford : shit
Martial : shit

The only one good player for 3 years from now is Hojlund, and that's if we dont already ruined him

400m for this collection of garbage. Well done Ten Haag
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He might be useless in 3 years but I wouldn't mind having 2 Casemiros now
 
stefan92 said:
It is, but you should be able to see and assess progress in a much shorter time frame.

A lot of United fans tend to think managers can only be judged fairly after they rebuild the entire team and squad. Which is stupid.

So for people who believe a manager can be judged earlier than after exchanging the whole squad the term "rebuild" has become synonymous to ignoring what is happening until the rebuild is done.

As such it's not wrong to speak of a rebuild, but as by now it seems to be associated with manager cults instead of an approach of continuous improvement and review of it, it is a term that should be avoided.
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Yup. What we need is a culture of ruthless continuous improvement. There should be a constant evaluation of the coach and the playing squad, and also what's on the market. The club should always position itself to react.

Ruthlessness means, someone doing an acceptable or good job can still find themselves being replaced if there's a better option on the market. This whole blind faith for X amount of time is what's gutted the club into the state it's in.
 
Oranges038 said:
You are totally missing the point, but you seem stuck to your dismissal of ETH and true cry baby fashion want it all now. Sadly the real world doesn't work like that.

This is not about ETH or any manager, this is about the structure of building a squad that will peak and maintain a level of competitiveness over a number of years. Like it or not, it will take at least 3 years to see the results.

This about looking at the current squad and evaluating whether or not players are going to be useful in 3 years. Hence, why we need to be looking right now at putting in a 3 year rebuild and succession plan. Over that time frame you analyse and upgrade the players as needed. You put each one in the 1,2,3 category and you build towards creating a squad that will work. No matter who you bring in. You see what Real do, that's the way to do it. Sort out big positions for long term and focus on maintaining the support around that.

So that when the time comes around, you have built a squad that doesn't need huge surgery every year. It just needs a little nip and tuck in a couple of places and it's going to keep it's momentum. Then you have termed plans on how to phase out and bed in new players.
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There's no point to this discuss. This 3 years nonsense is something you and some other United fans convince themselves with just to defend the current manager. When we hire a manager and he does well, people talk about how having a good manager makes a quick difference, then once things go south with any United manager, these threads start popping up. We have seen this before. It's just delusional nonsense to make you feel better about the whole thing, and even though you have seen it 3 times before, you keep on convincing yourself it will work one day, that one day a United manager will turn into the new Ferguson after 3 years.

You basically want the manager to get more time based on nothing. His football is shit, his style is nonexistent, his signings are crap, but let's give him 3 years regardless, as if this is the magical number and after it he will transform into a god. Anyone can see how ridiculous this concept is without much discussion.

No club works on this basis but as I said United fans are desperate and want to feel better about the whole thing.
 
I think we're all coming at this from the wrong direction. You can't call it a 'rebuild' anymore. What are we rebuilding? Fergie's United? His last successful team of 2010-2013 needed a rebuild as soon as he walked out the door. We won the league in 2013 through Fergie's willpower, his old guard pulling us through and RvP having a magical season.

Moyes inherited a team where all the best players and leaders were 30+ (other than Rooney who was 28), and the only players aged 27 and younger were; Nani (27), Anderson (26), Evans (26), Chicharito (26), Buttner (25), Kagawa (25), Amos (24), Cleverley (24), Smalling (24), De Gea (23), Fabio & Rafael (23), Welbeck (23), Zaha (21) and Januzaj (18). Then we gave him Fellaini and Mata (both 26).

That side needed a 3 year, carefully planned and committed rebuild, from the ground up. What we've done for 10 years is piss around adding icing to a cake that was never there. Sod rebuilding, or even BUILDING at this point, we don't even have foundations, and the people we've got in to do the building haven't got a fecking clue what they're doing.

We need a total and complete overhaul of all footballing operations at Manchester United. Talking about rebuilds and squad building etc under the current structure is a total waste of time. In the next 3 years this lot will sign all manner of shite, or half decent players who can't play together, probably for 2-3 different managers, and we'll be exactly where we are now - only with our rivals having won even more of the serious trophies whilst we're making do convincing ourselves that the domestic cups and good Europa League runs represents progress.
 
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