He’s not manager now Jesus lads
Largely driven by his immense love and admiration for ten Hag I think, which drives him to depreciate anyone other than him and get touchy when someone compares Ole to the best manager we have ever had.You really are blinded by this crusade against him, it’s a bit sad.
Yeah it’s revisionism to suggest a Manchester United manager used tacticsThere is no crusade, he said himself he doesn't place as high a value on tactics. He himself allowed a poor culture to fester and there was the longest trophy drought under his reign. These are facts to some crusade. The only crusade right now is from revisionists like you claiming facts are idiotic.
He did the same with Rangnick as well, another manager whose reign was vastly superior both on and off the pitch.Largely driven by his immense love and admiration for ten Hag I think, which drives him to depreciate anyone other than him and get touchy when someone compares Ole to the best manager we have ever had.
I said he didn't value tactics or have enough of a grasp of it. That is a fact and this is an Ole thread. I've actually said ten hag has no leg to stand on if he continues poor form despite having players back, so next time you want to make shit up about singing hymns I suggest you read the posts better.Yeah it’s revisionism to suggest a Manchester United manager used tactics
You’re a bit of a parody at this point. Always on here criticising Ole at every opportunity, while singing hymns for ETH and Rangnick (of all people) at the same time.
450m spent, 9th in the league, 3rd fewest goals, finished bottom of a piss easy CL group, eliminated at home in the cup yet for some reason he's still the dog's bollocks according to the deluders.I see VP is bigging up Ten Hag and laying the snack down on Ole despite their PL stats being almost identical. I think Ten Hag has 1 more point combined? Conceded more goals and scored a lot less, has a better win percentage but a significantly worse loss percentage. Spent roughly the same amount of money no?
It's a lesson against fanboyism. Don't do it lads, stay clear! Good night.
Yup.And a trophy like.
And one had 20 months in the job to prepare for his best season, and was still worse.
Doesn’t matter how you paint it, ETH needed much less preparation time, and much less money to better Ole’s best.
Now, he is failing and he’ll likely lose his job even if he gets players back and manages to match Ole’s second best season (66 points), because well, 66 points is shite, and standards should be much higher. Ole surviving that season put our standards down the toilet.
ETH’s first season was good/acceptable as a United manager, because it was his first. It’d also have been fecking shite if that was all he could produce after 20 months. Just as we absolutely should expect him to better last season, anything less is failure for me. But comparing him to the massive failure that was Ole doesn’t help anyone.
I suggest you learn what a fact is, because you don’t seem to know the meaning of the word.I said he didn't value tactics or have enough of a grasp of it. That is a fact and this is an Ole thread. I've actually said ten hag has no leg to stand on if he continues poor form despite having players back, so next time you want to make shit up about singing hymns I suggest you read the posts better.
Think it's evident you don't. The man himself said he doesn't value tactics as much as others do, that is a fact. Me eluding to that coupled with the eye test is not unreasonable. Stop trying to defend something that's not even got a case, and move on.I suggest you learn what a fact is, because you don’t seem to know the meaning of the word.
Because the 7-0 happened on ETHs watch, because the 3-0 loss to fecking Bournemouth happened on ETHs watch, because 9-2ish happened on Oles watchHow can you say this when the Pool game at home happened?
Can you provide that quote? I don't remember Ole saying that, but I'm happy to be wrong.Think it's evident you don't. The man himself said he doesn't value tactics as much as others do, that is a fact. Me eluding to that coupled with the eye test is not unreasonable. Stop trying to defend something that's not even got a case, and move on.
I can't be arsed to dig it up but he got annoyed when Carl Anka sort of called him out on a tactical point with a question in a press conference. He revisited a tactical point Ole made earlier in the season. When asked if his approach is to do xyz tactically he said football is about passion, desire, winning second balls etc.Can you provide that quote? I don't remember Ole saying that, but I'm happy to be wrong.
Exactly!Don't forget the protests that lead to us having 3 games in 5 days. From one Thursday to the next we played an unprecedented 4 games.
With a normal season (the first month not being a pre season as you mentioned, and the end not being completely bonkers) we'd easily have ended up on 80+ points.
That was the most fun season post Fergie (not saying much but still a big samle size). And that on top of a disastrous summer window where the hierarchy didn't sign one useful player.
I think people forget that we had a pretty decent injury list in 19/20, especially when you account for the fact that the squad lacked depth. We were playing Williams, Martial was injured for a while, and Rashford as well. Pogba was ofcourse injured for majority of the season. McT missed quite a few games as well.What if DDG didn't feck up in the FA cup final last year? What if Ole had so many injuries like Ten Hag now? There's lots of what ifs. The revisionism from supporters is what's annoying.
Hence the ‘at home’ partBecause the 7-0 happened on ETHs watch, because the 3-0 loss to fecking Bournemouth happened on ETHs watch, because 9-2ish happened on Oles watch
I guess you've gotten a lot of negative responses to your post but I think it's very balanced. His time at Utd had quite a lot of highs, and with regards to the tournaments, yes he "lacked something to capitalize", but to an extent that something was also just a bit of luck. Had we won that pen shootout in the EL final, his time would overall look just slightly different (and probably more representative of his body of work, I'd argue).Ole's time here was far, far from perfect but personally I appreciated plenty of things in that time:
-After LVG boring possession and Mourinho's bus (added to his toxic, miserably attitude) Ole was a breath of fresh air. He allowed the team more room to attack and score. I felt connected with the team the most I've been since SAF.
-Our average position after SAF (removing Ole's time) is around 5th. We were the 3rd best team in his first season as interim/full time manager (from December to May). 3rd in his first full season, and 2nd the following one. He got results above our average level under the Glazers for 2'5 years. Even if nothing extraordinary it could have been worse.
-125 goals in his second full season, the most in 15 years. Some freaks like 9-0 against Soton (even with 10 men), 9 goals against Roma in the EL, 5 against Leipzig (CL semifinalist the previous season) etc.
-At this point (January in his second full season) we were leading the Premier League, not 9th and 3 points away from 11th and on negative GD.
-Plenty of comebacks and ability to change a game from the bench.
-We were competitive away from home. The unbeaten record lasted a year and a half. If it was easy because of Covid and no fans, where is this record for the rest of the teams?
-The only manager who has beaten Pep more times than he was beaten by him (Ancelotti too maybe?). It doesn't mean he's better, obviously. But he's no fool either.
-Got Mourinho sacked after beating him in London which made me laugh a lot.
-Team spirit. He made these bastards likeable at some point.
-Went deep in many tournaments, but he lacked something to capitalize. A top manager would have won something once we reached those positions, but overall he wasn't the catastrophic manager many pretend.
Nobody can't tell me beating City 3 times in a season with these players, winning twice at Paris, the first win at Stamford Bridge in 5 years (in the cup during his interim period, playing with a diamond formation that nobody expected) the goals, the records, 3rd-3rd-2nd etc. it's just luck and vibes.
Ole, Carrick and McKenna are smart guys, and they were a good team despite the lack of expertise at that level. With the right structure maybe we could have signed some of the good players we chased as Haaland, Rice, Grealish, or Bellingham.
We would have avoided Ronaldo under serious directors and reinforced midfield instead, while not renewing players 'to protect value' getting the dressing room stacked with people aiming for playing time, and getting angry when it wasn't the case.
It wouldn't have made Ole successful, as our play never evolved enough to beat City in a 38 games run. But we could have got another decent season doing at least the bare minimum, he would have left in a positive manner in the coming summer and not the way it happened, and I think his time would be remembered in a better way.
I hope one day Ole reunites with Haaland in the NT, as there would be some poetry about it after their time at Molde. I have the feeling that he'd do well there.
Actually I just got one response a pair of days ago and it was positive. But I'm well aware many people don't share my views here. No problem with it, though.I guess you've gotten a lot of negative responses to your post but I think it's very balanced. His time at Utd had quite a lot of highs, and with regards to the tournaments, yes he "lacked something to capitalize", but to an extent that something was also just a bit of luck. Had we won that pen shootout in the EL final, his time would overall look just slightly different (and probably more representative of his body of work, I'd argue).
At the end, it was the right thing for him to go and probably to an extent he had his own limitations, of course, but there is definitely an argument to make that in a fully functioning structure, e.g. one that doesn't bring in Ronaldo that summer, the team maybe carries on progressing in a different way. Maybe not - it's football fiction at this point. What we do know however is that the structure at the club was terrible. And the football under Ole was at times a lot of fun.
Yeah I think we mostly agree about OGS - I just want to clarify that I'm not personally using that as a dig against ETH who I think is in a worse position that OGS ever was. I still have faith that things can get better (it might be without him, considering how football works), but I don't think the current situation shines as bad a light on him as a lot of people do.Actually I just got one response a pair of days ago and it was positive. But I'm well aware many people don't share my views here. No problem with it, though.
I agree on the luck, not only Villarreal but Sevilla in the EL semifinal we had 20 attempts against 9. I remember the start of the second half with our attacking trio missing one after another. The cup against Chelsea during the congested calendar, when they had 2 days more to rest which was visible during the game, and DDG had a bad day. Ole should have played Romero, but there's no guarantees either.
My defense for Ole has never been about him being excellent but as you say trying to add some balance and find the positives too, because there were plenty of them and he wasn't as bad as painted by many. I don't think the club had the pillars and the structure to do much better than 2nd in the league, winning the EL and scoring those 120 something goals, so I think he did well until that point.
Maybe he could have done it in a more elegant fashion, being more dominant, but I think after he took a look above him (the club, recruitment) and below (the players) he tried to find the most realistic formula to get results, trying to get a good balance attack-defence and and trying to highlight the qualities of these players (fast, direct play) and hide their flaws, which he did for a long time.
Many thought that bringing someone with more ambitious ideas would automatically make us more exciting and dominating, but after his pragmatic approach last season ETH opened the floodgates to build his thing and he's failed miserably.
Even ETH himself backtracked at mid way ("we'll never play like Ajax", "we'll be the best transition team") and he's completely lost since then. Outside of 'his system' he doesn't seem to have a flying clue about anything.
Maybe another manager can pull it off, but the risk will be always there when trying to develope a dominating, creative style of play with the natural pressures of this club, in the current PL where any Joe has money to burn, and a very mixed squad in terms of profiles to start building from. And this counting on the new structure orchestrating everything being a good one, which is yet to be seen.
What Ole, Carrick and McKenna did was reading the room, realizing where they were and applying common sense. It wasn't pretty at times but still miles better than the garbage we're being served right now.
Actually my main problem is not with ETH, but the club taking decisions based on pleasing the fans, and then gifting the manager the keys of the club without any method or strategy in behind, but playing the roulette and hoping for the best.Yeah I think we mostly agree about OGS - I just want to clarify that I'm not personally using that as a dig against ETH who I think is in a worse position that OGS ever was. I still have faith that things can get better (it might be without him, considering how football works), but I don't think the current situation shines as bad a light on him as a lot of people do.
Yeah it seems we agree on most things in factActually my main problem is not with ETH, but the club taking decisions based on pleasing the fans, and then gifting the manager the keys of the club without any method or strategy in behind, but playing the roulette and hoping for the best.
I think ETH is flawed from many angles, but I agree in the sense that just removing him and bringing another one won't fix everything. Especially if we keep chasing this kind of idealist coaches who are a round peg in a square hole at a club like ours at the moment.
Ah yes the tactical “eye test”. And please provide that quote in full, because this all sounds awfully made up.Think it's evident you don't. The man himself said he doesn't value tactics as much as others do, that is a fact. Me eluding to that coupled with the eye test is not unreasonable. Stop trying to defend something that's not even got a case, and move on.
Its not, he said it in a presser to Carl Anka. Go find it.Ah yes the tactical “eye test”. And please provide that quote in full, because this all sounds awfully made up.
Do you really think he'll disclose the tactics in a press conference right before the game vs Liverpool?Its not, he said it in a presser to Carl Anka. Go find it.
We've successfully proven a manager with no idea on tactics and one who places lesser value on them is the most unsuccessful manager in the last 30 years. Good one.Do you really think he'll disclose the tactics in a press conference right before the game vs Liverpool?
Secondly, if a manager does not value tactics and yet gets those results, feck, let's hire motivational speakers and cheerleaders instead of a manager because we've successfully proven that having a manager does not have nay value.
If no tactics can get us to 2nd in the league, surely for tactics to have a positive value, we need to win the league now, no?We've successfully proven a manager with no idea on tactics and one who places lesser value on them is the most unsuccessful manager in the last 30 years. Good one.
Every manager that has been successful with their career through tactics and gunning for silverware has actually won silverware and delivered tangible success at the club. Ole is the only manager who hasn't. I guess you can throw Moyes there too, so that's his company. Your point is nonsense, Mourinho for example was much, much better than Ole and we don't even need to throw Ten Hag into it.If no tactics can get us to 2nd in the league, surely for tactics to have a positive value, we need to win the league now, no?
If we finish lower than 2nd, having tactics implies that it has a negative impact.
P.S. : Weren't you one of those guys who believed we'd win the league with any other manager? Tried referring to multiple news outlets as well, just in case I missed out on us winning the league, but wasn't able to find anything there as well. Could you please share the link to us lifting #21?
Dont bother its a same shit with every manager in here, camps make their ditches and turn into gold fish. OGS being one of the worst things that could happen to us post SAF has nothing to do with current shitshow.He was an utter waste of 3 years. ETH being terrible this season doesn't vindicate him.
Mate, the point is if Ole had 0 tactics and delivered 2nd in the league, all other managers should have been able to improve on that league finish as they had something that Ole didn't. League is the one competition that actually determines how good or bad the side is, not FA Cups and League cups where how deep you go is often determined by luck of the draw and a team having 1 bad day (like City had vs Southampton last season).Every manager that has been successful with their career through tactics and gunning for silverware has actually won silverware and delivered tangible success at the club. Ole is the only manager who hasn't. I guess you can throw Moyes there too, so that's his company. Your point is nonsense, Mourinho for example was much, much better than Ole and we don't even need to throw Ten Hag into it.
Regarding to your second point, I don't know what you're on about.
Not having a sustainable style of play and showing a failure to develop your tactics is reason to sack a manager, which is why Ole was sacked. Having a purple patch in a season of empty seats doesn't change that. His point tally overall wasn't exactly groundbreaking.Mate, the point is if Ole had 0 tactics and delivered 2nd in the league, all other managers should have been able to improve on that league finish as they had something that Ole didn't. League is the one competition that actually determines how good or bad the side is, not FA Cups and League cups where how deep you go is often determined by luck of the draw and a team having 1 bad day (like City had vs Southampton last season).
Winning a cup competition should not be a reason to back a manager, else LVG should have been back unequivocally. League positions are the best indicator of where the team is (along with metrics like xG, xGD).
He was sacked because he lost 5 of his last 7 PL games you miserable twat.Not having a sustainable style of play and showing a failure to develop your tactics is reason to sack a manager, which is why Ole was sacked. Having a purple patch in a season of empty seats doesn't change that. His point tally overall wasn't exactly groundbreaking.
100% this.Solskjaer was a complete waste of time outside of his caretaker period.
ETH was a worth a punt, but should've been sacked months ago now. Every single club in Europe hires a manager on sound logic, who doesn't end up working out. It's part of football and it'll happen more often than not.
Not many are stupid enough to do what we did with Solskjaer though. And not only, we fecking extended his contract.
Lets park the name calling, no one is sacked just for losing 5 in 7.He was sacked because he lost 5 of his last 7 PL games you miserable twat.
Literally happened half an hour ago - Mou at Roma! 4 losses in last 7 gamesLets park the name calling, no one is sacked just for losing 5 in 7.
After failing to transcend the team adequately in 3 years. He doesn't get sacked of he lost 4 in 7 in season 1 or even season 2. He's only one 8 games in 20 in the Italian league.Literally happened half an hour ago - Mou at Roma! 4 losses in last 7 games
Scoring is fun though.Football is about winning things, not solely scoring goals. At the end of the day, he won nothing whilst allowing our standards of professionalism to drop massively and failing to transcend our play. I don't give a feck if we scored a lot of goals in a patch in between, because the bigger picture is that we chronically failed. The bigger takeaway than GD is that we had our longest trophy drought under him.