He wasn't supposed to be a backup. ETH was moving to a system that used two #10's, so he was intending for both to play.
That system obviously didn't work, and was never going to, but that was the thinking.
United’s Worst Decisions of the Last 12 Years
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That system obviously didn't work, and was never going to, but that was the thinking.
Mount suffered a pelvic concussion and then a pelvic injury during his last season at Chelsea which kept him out from late February till late May with a small reprieve in between. He only played 20 games that season and just 2 games in May. So the signs were there and every sane club would have waited a year (and get him on free) to see if those injuries persisted. We opted to give 50m to Chelsea as pure profit instead.
I've been saying that this club was incompetent long before most people did. However there's a line in the sand were even gross incompetence and blatant stupidity won't cross. As said, if I was Manchester United's owner then the first thing I would have done was to investigate the modus operandi of how our transfers were made throughout the years. Hopefully there's nothing sinister around that and all that comes out are lessons that should be learnt. However there's simply too many brain farts not to
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For me, not backing Mou takes the cake. The Special One had us contending again and brought back that aura, that fear factor we had been missing since Fergie left. His approach, prioritizing strong and battle hardened players, gave us a spine and a sense of stability. Opponents respected us, sometimes even feared us. At least back then, we knew we would not lose like sissies, and we had players who could hurt you from all over the pitch.
Sure, Ole inherited some of that grit and carried it forward for a bit. We had our moments under him too, no doubt. But looking back, I think that Mourinho era was the closest we have come to feeling like a proper United side post Fergie. It had edge, it had bite, and above all, it felt like we were on the verge of something.
Sure, Ole inherited some of that grit and carried it forward for a bit. We had our moments under him too, no doubt. But looking back, I think that Mourinho era was the closest we have come to feeling like a proper United side post Fergie. It had edge, it had bite, and above all, it felt like we were on the verge of something.
The worst thing wasn't an actual decision (there are plenty of those to pick from) or a specific person (they all contributed to the current mess, others more and others less), but a mindset. By 2013, everyone at the club - and i mean everyone - believed that United had become too big to fail. This incited a certain conceit that ran through the club, and traces of which still remain here and there. You could argue it all began with Moyes and the "longevity" label that followed his appointment. It wasn't just stupid, it was straight arrogant.
I think the worst decision made in the past 12 years was the dumbing down of the executive football side of Manchester United. While other clubs were bringing in more specialized people in new roles thus fragmenting the burden once carried by an old school manager like SAF into tiny pieces, we went the other way. Gill was replaced by Woodward, SAF was replaced by lesser managers etc. When the pressure from fans became too high they created the DOF role and the technical director role, however it was pretty evident that those people were mere placeholders who were there to act as a shield for the CEO and the owners. Add to the fact (2nd biggest mistake) that the owners were too distant from the club with no idea whatsoever what was happening at the club and you had the perfect mix ie people who time and time again were allowed to commit costly mistakes and still get away with it. Some of the things done are, in my opinion, go beyond incompetence. Antony's, Hojlund's, Casemiro's, Sanchez's and Mount's deal to name are simply tragic. They wouldn't happen at any club let alone at a top club. Then there's Shaw's, Martial's and Jones' contract extension, the many players we sold for a packet of pringles each (VDB, Levitt, Zidane Iqbal, Chong etc) and the fact that we've suffered from the same issues time and time again (injuries, transfers etc) and no one ever bothered trying to correct it.
We’ve had some bad signings but Pogba leaving for free twice is almost comical. 80m quid and we’d be lucky to get 1 decent game every 5. Piss poor attitude and poor performance just about sums this club up.
Another obvious one is having clueless people run the club, we were so far ahead and had a massive budget for new players it would have been almost impossible for a proper footballing board to feck it up
Another obvious one is having clueless people run the club, we were so far ahead and had a massive budget for new players it would have been almost impossible for a proper footballing board to feck it up
Replacing SAF with Moyes.
Conte jokingly once said in press conference what a sporting director in Italy told him... "You can make a mistake about your wife but not about your strikers and the goalkeepers."
It's not the worst decision in the last 12 years of course (there are so many accumulated that you need a book to write them all), but the above ones are what is mostly killing the team of today and their performances.
It's not the worst decision in the last 12 years of course (there are so many accumulated that you need a book to write them all), but the above ones are what is mostly killing the team of today and their performances.
Sacking Van Gaal to hire Mourinho
I would refer everyone to post #5, there is nothing else just this, I despair that they are still here. I don’t care anymore, football is a circus and we are Charlie Cairolie.Selling part of the club to a financially broke , old man
Did you honestly feel we were all that in the latter stages of 2017/18, when we beat City only to lose at home to WBA, lost the FA Cup final and went out of Europe against Sevilla?
I thought the team looked gone, which is nothing new for Mourinho after a couple of years.
The issue wasn't not backing him in his third summer. It was keeping him for a third summer, especially if we no longer trusted him.
Yeah, it was clear we were going nowhere.
I definitely think the transfers under ETH. We all got caught up in the oh well we are one of the biggest clubs in the world lets just buy whatever we want because the manager likes him mentality .
But in hindsight. With all the PSR and FFp regulations that followed later. There is no way we spend so much money on Casemiro, Antony, Hojlund , Mount and Onana. Even though he has been a relative success Martinez was still over priced imo. Those transfers alone with these new rules have set us back another decade from competing for titles.
I just pray the likes of Kone, Amass, Fletcher and Obi can save the club some money. I would rather see them make it here than some more ex Real Madrid and Bayern players looking for a final pay day. We became Hollywood FC under Murtogh. I was looking back at some old games. Forgotten how much Ferguson trusted the academy. Gave some long united careers to players who if playing today, would be sold for one or two bad games.
But in hindsight. With all the PSR and FFp regulations that followed later. There is no way we spend so much money on Casemiro, Antony, Hojlund , Mount and Onana. Even though he has been a relative success Martinez was still over priced imo. Those transfers alone with these new rules have set us back another decade from competing for titles.
I just pray the likes of Kone, Amass, Fletcher and Obi can save the club some money. I would rather see them make it here than some more ex Real Madrid and Bayern players looking for a final pay day. We became Hollywood FC under Murtogh. I was looking back at some old games. Forgotten how much Ferguson trusted the academy. Gave some long united careers to players who if playing today, would be sold for one or two bad games.
Yep. Even if Fergie recommended him.
Replacing Moyes with LvG was a huge mistake, and Jose with Ole. EtH was a plausible signing, it just didn't work out, but the Woodward/Arnold axis of evil is the supreme reason.
At least Mason Mount had EPL experience (though he had an injury history). Hojlund was a youth player, with virtually no experience at a high level, who was being asked to lead the line at MUFC. This was the worst decision.
Onana wasn't a great purchase, but at least he is semi decent.
All 3 were terrible purchases and I would go so far as to say the people who made those decisions should be fired.
Not having any plan whatsoever for when Sir Alex retired. The plan when the glazers took over was let Fergie do it. Then no plan whatsoever. It was shocking to see. We all ready done it once before with Sir Matt. But hey why not do it again with saf and let history repeat itself.
I'm sure I remember David Gill talking about a plan being in place in an interview a year or two before Sir Alex retired, but I must've imagined that since if THIS was the damn plan...
I am struggling to find good ones of the last 12 years. Everything appears so bleak.
There are a million bad decisions but without a doubt the Woodward/Moyes appointments are the most obvious ones.
Almost every other bad decision stems from those appointments and in terms of entrenching a club wide culture of incompetence Woodward's appointment has to be winner.
More than appointing Moyes. More than appointing LVG or sacking him. More than appointing Jose, or sacking him, or extending and then not backing him. More than blindly backing ETH. Woodward being in charge of the club's affairs and direction for so long is the most significant decision we have made.
Almost every other bad decision stems from those appointments and in terms of entrenching a club wide culture of incompetence Woodward's appointment has to be winner.
More than appointing Moyes. More than appointing LVG or sacking him. More than appointing Jose, or sacking him, or extending and then not backing him. More than blindly backing ETH. Woodward being in charge of the club's affairs and direction for so long is the most significant decision we have made.
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I agree 100%. Great post. It's been very frustrating indeed.
Yep, I agree but equally so was failing to back Mourinho.
In hindsight, even if the best manager in the world was hired instead of Moyes we would still be in the same position. There was no structure or support in place.
Disagree entirely. Moyes was the root cause of our decline.
Not signing the next Messi.
I agree with the Mourinho bit even more. It was utterly criminal. They literally went from singular homicide to genocidal murder ...
Giving Edward Woodward so much power
The problem is a lot of our bad decisions don't necessarily look bad in isolation, when they're made, but are made to look bad because there's no real strategy.
The decisions to appoint Van Gaal and Mourinho were met (by the vast majority of people) with positivity.
Di Maria, Falcao, Sanchez, Pogba etc etc were all deemed to be good signings at the time.
The decisions to appoint Van Gaal and Mourinho were met (by the vast majority of people) with positivity.
Di Maria, Falcao, Sanchez, Pogba etc etc were all deemed to be good signings at the time.
There's also an interesting argument that post Treble, the club became too big and almost impossible to run with a proper coherent strategy. As I said further up, that was made less apparent under Fergie.
The pressure on the players because of that (yes I know, they're earning millions of pounds every month) is intense.
The spotlight on our managers (again post Fergie) is intense.
Good decisions become bad decisions because people coming into the club (whether they're staff, players or coaches can't handle the stress.)
The pressure on the players because of that (yes I know, they're earning millions of pounds every month) is intense.
The spotlight on our managers (again post Fergie) is intense.
Good decisions become bad decisions because people coming into the club (whether they're staff, players or coaches can't handle the stress.)
Pogba leaving for free the second time was actually a good decision. Not really a decision but it was forced by Pogba just not signing a new contract. Still it was a good outcome. A worse decision would have been to keep him.
Pogba was good until he started to become injury prone. You dont make the PFA team by 1 decent game every 5. Pogba didnt live up to unrealistic expectations but he was one of the few quality players we had during his second period at Manchester United.
Yes, looking back his first couple of seasons were really quite good, but quite clear now that he peaked very early physically.
eh? Woodward would still have been in place. The Glazers would still have been in place. The same profligate transfer policy would be in place. If the club had gone straight to Van Gaal instead of the 8 months with Moyes why would subsequent history suddenly be great?
Posted on this thread a few pages back but reviewing my top five list, having narrowed things down -- list is from absolute worst to least absolute worst:
- Appointing Moyes
No short list, no plan B, only blind faith that because Moyes is supposedly 'cut from the same cloth' as Fergie he would eventually become the great Scot one day. Stupid, self-inflicting and complacent, I completely agree with @ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg -- it's the root of all subsequent catastrophes. - Summer 2023 transfer window
A true, bonafide, Ten Hag disasterclass. Last night's shambles from Hojlund and Onana cements this entire episode as close second. £180m down the shitter and leaves us much worse off with a squad left unbalanced -- and all of this following a promising managerial debut season. Peak post-Fergie insanity. - Hiring Ole as permanent manager
Doomed to fail from day one. All warning signs ignored and set aside. A sentimental, 'United DNA' hire done only to appease certain segments of our fanbase. - Sacking Van Gaal
This is an unpopular opinion but there were actually glimmers of his 'philosophy' finally taking root, winning us the Cup, and Woodward still chucks the man behind this for a galactico in Mourinho. In my book a truly stupid call that traded potential stability for instant gratification. - Sacking Mourinho
Mourinho didn't help at all with his antics and while things soured, sacking him mid-season with no succession plan beyond hiring Ole as interim was a real head-scratcher at best and reckless at worst. Also around that time (IIRC) Mourinho begged for a center-half, Woody said no, 'no budget'... only to went on and spent £80m on Maguire not too long after. Incoherence galore.
I think this is a good analysis.
Not sure on Van Gaal - as he indicated (or maybe even said explicitly, I can’t remember), that he would only be staying another season.
But sacking him was disruptive, and you bring it up as an interesting point.
What frustrated me about OGS is that he was almost the perfect interim manager. He had done a great job, he did what was asked of him, and he could and should have walked away with great credit. Most people could see he wasn’t the guy to take us forward long term, and so it turned out.
Worst decision was not having a clear plan and vision when Fergie left.
The point when it seemed like everything would fall apart, to me, was when Moyes was binned as a mistake, rightly, but the club then went to Van Gaal, who was nearing retirement and really done as a top level club coach. That terrified me. And the football he played was the most insipid of all. In the past decade, other clubs have rapidly iterated to improvement, United have stayed about as good as they were under Van Gaal.
Don't agree with a single thing here
Woodward would be 'too easy' - what does that even mean? If anything, Moyes would be 'too easy' to blame. Other teams have all had an unfit manager for a season. Look at some of the ones Real Madrid, Liverpool and Bayern have had, in the same timespan. Newcastle too.
I'd see your point a little if Moyes was given the keys to the transfer market and got rid of 10 good players and signed 10 duds. He had very little impact on the squad shaping. Van Gaal and Ten Hag were much more detrimental. One of them you've left off the list despite his signing screwing us again last night. The other you actually think we should have fecking kept
Probably the worst post i've seen on here in a good 6 months. And I include my posts about foxes in that.
And shame on @ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg too for enabling it
Woodward is easily #1 if we're looking at individuals who aren't the Glazers. Ten Hag and Van Gaal then fight for #2
Feel free to disagree with any post, it’s a discussion forum.
Moyes’ impact was sacking the coaching staff, and changing the mentality of the club - transfers are not the only metric.
He made some appalling decisions in that regard also, including keeping Rooney (legend that he is), where Fergie lay the groundwork for him to leave, scrapping long term targets in favour of his ‘war room’ and own analysis which led to procrastination as he couldn’t make a decision, and of course the Baines/ Fellani farce was led by him because he knew best, and thought he knew that Everton would concede. They did not, and throughout the summer very publicly stated they would not sell Baines.
Moyes destroyed the aura of Man Utd. Clubs who hadn’t won at OT now went there and knew they could win, and often did. Those 7 months destroyed decades of work - and we have never recovered from that.
Football is largely not factual, and it’s subjective.
I feel no shame! Very strange turn of phrase, and one that’s unwarranted. I take no offence, as I’m not that type of person. It’s just a discussion.
There have been many appalling decisions since Fergie left, and it’s sad that we have so many to choose from.
Title of thread explains itself: United's worst decisions post-Fergie. Any sane United fan knows the original sin was hiring Woodward but here I've tried to rank the things he did from (what I personally think) most damaging to least damaging for us. You're of course free to disagree.
Also on Woodward -- though long gone by the time summer of 2023 came along I would even attribute the signings we made then as a living remnant of his scattergun approach to recruitment. That summer we also massively overpaid on every player, again echoing a legacy left by him.
Not really. Boring as it was, we didn't get regularly slapped by random teams.
It all mainly falls on Woodward's lap. You don't need a DoF or any fancy structure of rocket scientists to work out going from Moyes to LvG and then Mourinho will just keep you having the wrong squad and relying on transfers to start building over 2-3 years every time.
Once the head is rotten, you go to how could we have avoided that and it's pretty clear (as it was back then) that we should have got Mourinho. Got the league, the club, the size of the task, squad was a good fit... we would have kicked on much better.
Eventually by hook or crook Disneyland Woodward would have caught us up with being crap though.
Signing Onana