Ruben Amorim - Manchester United Head Coach | Thread locked during matches

[Zumbi]

No he can't. No one forced him to do anything. He could have said no. He accepted the job so that is no longer valid.

It is valid if he told INEOS that was a bad idea and they went ahead anyway, and he was then shown to have a point, because they're the ones deciding his future. That could well mean he has more leeway with them, even if he doesn’t with you.

 

[croadyman]

You’ve been banging this drum for days now.

I agree, the results in the PL have been unacceptable and Amorim deserves to be criticized accordingly. But you should be able to see the nuance here.

The focus of ire for those who want Amorim sacked is the formation, but our biggest problem by far is a lack of talent, technical ability and athleticism. Combine that with some tactically challenged footballers (Hojlund, Garnacho) and we are in 15th…

The experienced 24 to 28 year olds have been lost (Rashford, Sancho, Antony, Mctominay).

For me, the blame of this season is partially on Amorim because he has chosen to stick to a system rather than grind out results in a compact 4-2-3-1 and landing somewhere around 10th.

But this is the worst squad, talent wise, we’ve had in living memory. We have one great player (Bruno), that’s it. The rest are barely internationals. I believe Mainoo, Amad and maybe Yoro could develop into good squad players, but the rest are either too old (Casemiro, Maguire) or have serious warts (Ugarte, Maguire, DeLigt, Onana, Lindelof, Dalot, Hojlund, Licha). This is at least 50% of the problem. And is that on Amorim?

I’d like to see a really good window with 5 to 7 good players and see what Amorim can do. He should have a short leash, say 12 PL games. If we are in 6th, continue with the project, if not, he should be sacked.

The Glazers, INEOS and Ten Hag completely fecked up the last 4-5 years of recruitment.

Well for him to get 5-7 good players that's gonna take three things. The first is Champions League Football. The second is a couple of big player sales like Garnacho and Mainoo. The third is getting decent money for all of Rashford, Antony and Sancho. So let's just say that's an enormous ask to say the least but not impossible.

 

[reelworld]

I don't know how Amorim supposed to do for players who were too scared to pass forward. It's fecking frustrating to see how scared our players in making progressive passes. There was a counter in the first half where we got 3-4 players breaking forward, but instead of trying to create a chance, they passed it back to the goalkeeper.
People love to shit on Ugarte for not progressive enough player, but IMO he's the only player yesterday who are comfortable in keeping the ball, and making progressive runs and passes

 

[Raoul]

How many players do you think he will get IF

We win Europa

Don't win Europa

We can only go by what has already been publicly stated.

Here, SJR basically makes the case why Amorim is the guy.

Spoiler

At 11:24 - SJR says he has a budget in place, which could grow depending on players sold.

--------------------

Next, at 2:12 of this clip of Ornstein, one of the most reliable journos in the business, states that Untied are after a #9 and #10.

Spoiler

He also says that finances are already in place and they don't depend on European football qualification, nor on sales.

The two players he says United are focused on are Cunha (£62.5m release clause) and Delap (£30m release clause if Ipswich go down)

--------------------

That's £92.5m on those two without needing to sell anyone or qualify for the CL.

-------------------

We also know that CL qualification would restult in up to £85m in funds, depending on how many home games are played.

Spoiler

-------------------

Next, we have to add up how much money might come in through sales - Rashford, Sancho, Antony, and Hojlund are the main ones (even if all aren't sold and one or two are loaned, that would still be a considerable amount of money). Then there are potential sell on fees for players like Greenwood and Carreras that might come into play + another £14m that will be saved by simply removing Eriksen and Evans' wages off the books.

Whether one has a conservative or generous estimate of how much could come in, its fair to say £100m wouldn't be unreasonable. If by chance we decide to sell one of Mainoo or Garnacho, that figure would obviously skyrocket into the £150m range.

------------------

So back to your original question, it depends on what happens with all the scenarios above. My sense is we will buy 4 or 5 players plus Diego Leon, which could look like this.

Cunha - 62.5m
Gyokeres - 55m
Ederson - 50m
Enzo Kana Biyik - 5m
Diego Leon - 3m (already paid in winter window)
----------------
~ £172.5m

There are obviously a lot of moving pieces at play, but if public comments by reliable sources are to be believed, then something like the above is completely realistic.

 

[croadyman]

We can only go by what has already been publicly stated.

Here, SJR basically makes the case why Amorim is the guy.

Spoiler

At 11:24 - SJR says he has a budget in place, which could grow depending on players sold.


That takes us to 2:12 of this clip of Ornstein, who is one of the most reliable journos in the business, states that Untied are after a #9 and #10.

Spoiler

He also says that finances are already in place and they don't depend on European football qualification, nor on sales.

The two players he says United are focused on are Cunha (£62.5m release clause) and Delap (£30m release clause if Ipswich go down)/

--------------------

That's £92.5m on those two without needing to sell anyone or qualify for the CL.

-------------------

We also know that CL qualification would restult in up to £85m in funds, depending on how many home games are played.

Spoiler

-------------------

Next, we have to add up how much money might come in through sales - Rashford, Sancho, Antony, and Hojlund are the main ones (even if all aren't sold and one or two are loaned, that would still be a considerable amount of money). Then there are potential sell on fees for players like Greenwood and Carreras that might come into play + another £14m that will be saved by simply removing Eriksen and Evans' wages off the books.

Whether one has a conservative or generous estimates of how much could come in, its fair to say £100m wouldn't be unreasonable. If by chance we decide to sell one of Mainoo or Garnacho, that figure would obviously skyrocket into the £150m range.

------------------

So back to your original question, it depends on what happens with all the scenarios above. My sense is we will buy 4 or 5 players plus Diego Leon, which could look like this.

Cunha - 62.5m
Gyokeres - 55m
Ederson - 50m
Enzo Kana Biyik - 5m
Diego Leon - 3m (already paid in winter window)
----------------
~ £172.5m

There are obvious a lot of moving pieces at play, but if public comments by reliable sources are to be believed, then something like the above is completely realistic.

Do you think he is playing bluffing game on Gyokeres?

 

[Bright_Eyes]

Whatever happened to coaching what you have? Every conversation in here for the last four years has been about managers needing a window or two and getting their players.

Ole came in and got the same set of players working well and then added his own in AWB, Bruno and Maguire but for the most part the core of his team was players already at the club.

You coach and improve what you have then you get given money to improve priority positions. You don't just do a shitty job coaching what you have and get the players labelled as shite and demand an overhaul.

The same with Emery and Iraola. Sure they've spent money but they coached and improved what they have first. Amorim has barely improved anything in the team and the only players you can say have improved are Bruno and Amad but they are our best players anyway.

How much can you coach and improve player's technical ability with about 20-30 training sessions though? Until mid January he only had 7 training sessions, and only 3 with the full squad.

 

[Raoul]

Do you think he is playing bluffing game on Gyokeres?

Impossible to know. Amorim did promise Sporting he wouldn't take any players with him when he left, but that didn't include this summer, so lets see what happens.

 

[croadyman]

Impossible to know. Amorim did promise Sporting he wouldn't take any players with him when he left, but that didn't include this summer, so lets see what happens.

One thing we both know is he simply has to get Champions League or no chance in hell of signing him or any of these proven strikers mentioned on here.

 

[Stickz]

How many players do you think he will get IF

We win Europa

Don't win Europa

Winning Europa will be worth an extra player or two without selling one of Mainoo or Garnacho I suspect.

85M is the additional delta for us qualifying for the CL is it not?

 

[Raoul]

Winning Europa will be worth an extra player or two without selling one of Mainoo or Garnacho I suspect.

85M is the additional delta for us qualifying for the CL is it not?

Up to 85m yes. But bear in mind that we have about 75m in annualized installment payments for players we've previously bought in recent years - Hojlund, Casemiro, Antony etc. That's why sales of players like Rashford and others will be important.

 

[Zumbi]

Winning Europa will be worth an extra player or two without selling one of Mainoo or Garnacho I suspect.

85M is the additional delta for us qualifying for the CL is it not?

Yep, but I believe that if we qualify for CL it’s going to cost us a significant chunk extra in wages due to the incentive clauses in the players contracts, which will eat in to some of that 85m.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Yep, but I believe that if we qualify for CL it’s going to cost us a significant chunk extra in wages due to the incentive clauses in the players contracts, which will eat in to some of that 85m.

Incremental matchday costs need to be factored as well, as £85M is just the revenue figure.

 

[Insanity]

I don't think he would sack Berada unless he sensed there was a legitimate structural problem with his approach. What we are instead seeing are early growing pains of a long term trajectory of success. If we make the CL and load up on top players this summer, we could easily be back in the top 4 mix next year alongside a deep run into the CL.

There is nothing wrong with that sentiment and something to hope for. However, if we look at the body of work so far there are tons of reasons to be sceptical. We have recruited six players so far under INEOS' tenure and they have genuinely failed to move the needed. The fact is that even after the addition of those six players we have fallen from 8th (in an injury plagues season) to 15th currently. No one can disagree that Amo's results in the PL have been an absolute disaster so far. 6 wins in 24 with a 25% win rate and 50% loss rate is genuinely terrifying. The style of play hasn't improved and there are no genuine sings of progress to look forward to yet.

No doubt there are some mitigating circumstances and there is an awareness regarding that but what we have seen so far from the manager and the management team does raise alarm bells. I don't think it would be as easy as recruiting 4 players and we'd be in the contention of a top 4 spot.

If we ask me for answers I don't have any. Though I do have a lot of questions and doubts. I would still be in favor of giving him next season if we are able to win Europa. Without it, I seriously don't know.

 

[Raoul]

There is nothing wrong with that sentiment and something to hope for. However, if we look at the body of work so far there are tons of reasons to be sceptical. We have recruited six players so far under INEOS' tenure and they have genuinely failed to move the needed. The fact is that even after the addition of those six players we have fallen from 8th (in an injury plagues season) to 15th currently. No one can disagree that Amo's results in the PL have been an absolute disaster so far. 6 wins in 24 with a 25% win rate and 50% loss rate is genuinely terrifying. The style of play hasn't improved and there are no genuine sings of progress to look forward to yet.

No doubt there are some mitigating circumstances and there is an awareness regarding that but what we have seen so far from the manager and the management team does raise alarm bells. I don't think it would be as easy as recruiting 4 players and we'd be in the contention of a top 4 spot.

If we ask me for answers I don't have any. Though I do have a lot of questions and doubts. I would still be in favor of giving him next season if we are able to win Europa. Without it, I seriously don't know.

The players at an individual level have been fine imo. Yoro, Ugarte, DeLigt, Mazraoui, and Zirkzee have all been good buys. Dorgu is obviously still a work in progress, as are Obi and Heaven. The reason we haven't progressed under Amorim is simply down to a convergence of three factors, each self-reinforcing of one another. The fact that we got Amorim mid season (inclusive of his unique formation which the club were well aware of), the plague of constant injuries, and most importantly, the lack of a prolific #9 who can score goals. All three of these problems will be solved this summer, so I am expecting a massive improvement in our results across all comps next year.

 

[sleepehead]

The players at an individual level have been fine imo. Yoro, Ugarte, DeLigt, Mazraoui, and Zirkzee have all been good buys. Dorgu is obviously still a work in progress, as are Obi and Heaven. The reason we haven't progressed under Amorim is simply down to a convergence of three factors, each self-reinforcing of one another. The fact that we got Amorim mid season (inclusive of his unique formation which the club were well aware of), the plague of constant injuries, and most importantly, the lack of a prolific #9 who can score goals. All three of these problems will be solved this summer, so I am expecting a massive improvement in our results across all comps next year.

I actually feel the opposite I think the problems we have will be similar to next season, we have big financial problems because of mismanagement. I think we'll be better but, I think the unique formation in which we don't have currently the right players will force us to rely too much on a select few to play every week. Leading to us overplaying and having some injuries, this hasn't been only a 1 season problem this has been a problem for 2 straight seasons now. I don't think our injury problems change next season based on the players we have. And the 9 we've been connected with Delap, will have a better season than Hojlund this year but I think he'll have similar scoring problems. I don't wish for Amorim to be sacked but I think he will be because we just won't be winning enough.

 

[Insanity]

The players at an individual level have been fine imo. Yoro, Ugarte, DeLigt, Mazraoui, and Zirkzee have all been good buys. Dorgu is obviously still a work in progress, as are Obi and Heaven. The reason we haven't progressed under Amorim is simply down to a convergence of three factors, each self-reinforcing of one another. The fact that we got Amorim mid season (inclusive of his unique formation which the club were well aware of), the plague of constant injuries, and most importantly, the lack of a prolific #9 who can score goals. All three of these problems will be solved this summer, so I am expecting a massive improvement in our results across all comps next year.

If the players have been decent at individual level then it would suggest that the manager hasn't been able to get a tune out of them as a team. He is failing in his remit and has failed to develop a coherent that is more than the sum of its part.

I genuinely think that coming in mid-season is an advantage as the expectations and the pressure to achieve is at the lowest. A manager can take risks and mold the team in his vision without the stress of achieving consistent results. He basically has a free pass for those months in which he can experiment and implement his style of play. That has been the most disappointing part for me regarding Amo's term. There has been no signs of improvement in terms of our football. We still struggle in all the three departments: defense, midfield and attack.

Still, I like the guy and rooting for him. If he wins Europa I'd be fully behind giving him another season. Without it, I'll have serious worries.

 

[Red Comet]

If the players have been decent at individual level then it would suggest that the manager hasn't been able to get a tune out of them as a team. He is failing in his remit and has failed to develop a coherent that is more than the sum of its part.

I genuinely think that coming in mid-season is an advantage as the expectations and the pressure to achieve is at the lowest. A manager can take risks and mold the team in his vision without the stress of achieving consistent results. He basically has a free pass for those months in which he can experiment and implement his style of play. That has been the most disappointing part for me regarding Amo's term. There has been no signs of improvement in terms of our football. We still struggle in all the three departments: defense, midfield and attack.

Still, I like the guy and rooting for him. If he wins Europa I'd be fully behind giving him another season. Without it, I'll have serious worries.

Does this exact statement contradict the point you are making? Amorim is taking risk and molding the team in his vision right now. If there were indeed "no stress of achieving consistent results" then you won't be here harping about the poor performance and results that he's getting.

I think right before Amorim's appointment most fans are agreeing that some form of open heart surgery is required for Man Utd, and I see whatever is happening right now as the necessary pain we are going through to get to our destination.

The INEOS signings these season are decent, and a welcome changed from previous seasons. Instead of panicking with a ridiculous bid for Branthwaite before transfer window closes, like we would have predictably done in previous season, we brought in Yoro, MDL, and Heaven who are fitting in and performing generally well.

There are games where you can genuinely say the outcome would be different had we converted the chances we created, or had Garnacho been a bit more aware of his surrounding rather than belting it into the crowd.

At the same time, I don't think most of the AmorIN crowd are blind towards the results. We are aware of how abject our league form has been, and the only saving grace so far is Europe. If the next season league form starts off exactly the way we end this season you would see fans turn on Amorim pretty fast.

 

[Posh Red]

It is valid if he told INEOS that was a bad idea and they went ahead anyway, and he was then shown to have a point, because they're the ones deciding his future. That could well mean he has more leeway with them, even if he doesn’t with you.

Exactly. They encouraged him to join during the season, and presumably granted him additional leeway as a compromise.

 

[Sky1981]

Winning Europa will be worth an extra player or two without selling one of Mainoo or Garnacho I suspect.

85M is the additional delta for us qualifying for the CL is it not?

Moot with the increase 25% in wages due to reaching CL clause?

 

[Insanity]

Does this exact statement contradict the point you are making? Amorim is taking risk and molding the team in his vision right now. If there were indeed "no stress of achieving consistent results" then you won't be here harping about the poor performance and results that he's getting.

I think right before Amorim's appointment most fans are agreeing that some form of open heart surgery is required for Man Utd, and I see whatever is happening right now as the necessary pain we are going through to get to our destination.

The INEOS signings these season are decent, and a welcome changed from previous seasons. Instead of panicking with a ridiculous bid for Branthwaite before transfer window closes, like we would have predictably done in previous season, we brought in Yoro, MDL, and Heaven who are fitting in and performing generally well.

There are games where you can genuinely say the outcome would be different had we converted the chances we created, or had Garnacho been a bit more aware of his surrounding rather than belting it into the crowd.

At the same time, I don't think most of the AmorIN crowd are blind towards the results. We are aware of how abject our league form has been, and the only saving grace so far is Europe. If the next season league form starts off exactly the way we end this season you would see fans turn on Amorim pretty fast.

No, it doesn't because I don't see any risks being taken and the performances & the results are abysmal. I think we have failed to score in half the PL games he has managed, where is the risk taking or the performances to build my hopes on?

Where is the open heart surgery? Bruno, Casemiro, Maguire, Lindelof, Shaw etc are being used in a low/mid block to achieve results in the Europa. Where are the genuine contenders for positions in defense, midfield or attack for next season that are being developed?

Well the signings are decent, Bruno is ace, Maguire & Casemiro have had redemptions, Amad is great but we still can't defend, score goals or control games in the midfield. Cool!

In those games the outcome would be different if the opposition took their chances too. It works both ways.

I am not part of this ManagerIn/ManagerOut cults. These are not some political teams that I am fanatical about. I post on what I see on the pitch, and that so far has been disappointing.

 

[tenpoless]

The players at an individual level have been fine imo. Yoro, Ugarte, DeLigt, Mazraoui, and Zirkzee have all been good buys. Dorgu is obviously still a work in progress, as are Obi and Heaven. The reason we haven't progressed under Amorim is simply down to a convergence of three factors, each self-reinforcing of one another. The fact that we got Amorim mid season (inclusive of his unique formation which the club were well aware of), the plague of constant injuries, and most importantly, the lack of a prolific #9 who can score goals. All three of these problems will be solved this summer, so I am expecting a massive improvement in our results across all comps next year.

I think some posters are underrating the impact a proper CF can have on a team. Its not just about goals as well, good CFs make defenders stick to them and freeing his team mates. There is a reason why Sir Alex kept signing good CFs when we already had several of them... and thats what United was all about. Relying on midfielders (Bruno, Casemiro) to score goals feels really weird.

 

[IncyWincySpider]

Impossible to know. Amorim did promise Sporting he wouldn't take any players with him when he left, but that didn't include this summer, so lets see what happens.

Also, Gyokeres is probably leaving Sporting anyway, so it’s not as though Amorim would be luring him away. If he doesn’t come here he might be at Arsenal.

 

[Freak]

I think some posters are underrating the impact a proper CF can have on a team. Its not just about goals as well, good CFs make defenders stick to them and freeing his team mates. There is a reason why Sir Alex kept signing good CFs when we already had several of them... and thats what United was all about. Relying on midfielders (Bruno, Casemiro) to score goals feels really weird.

Agreed. Centre Forwards allow their team to move up the pitch with good hold up play. They ensure that defenders will think twice about committing to attack. It's no surprise that the top paid players in football are usually the top centre forwards (or forwards who get lots of goals).

 

[silvercre]

He's 73 and has managed 13 clubs in the past 20 years.

Trying to joke how he wiuld have gotten top 6 finish.

What I find completely strange in this thread is the negative spinning. And by reading so many times how the start of the next season will be bad you'd think that they wish that.

 

[Brand Nubian]

Huge pre-season ahead for Amorim. He needs at least 4 wins out of 6 games to get that winning mentality back. If he does not get at least four wins then a new manager should be brought in, with number of good ones still available before the new season starts. If preseason training drills (plus new signings) have no impact on results even in no pressure friendlies then there is no point to stick only to sack him later and write off another season.

 

[stretford ender58]

I actually like Amorim and can see what he’s trying to achieve. Which is more than I can say for ETH. But you just cannot turn a blind eye to the abomination we’ve been in the league, even before he started resting players for Europe.

Winning Europa will buy him a summer transfer window but he’s going to be under immense pressure from the off next season either way.

 

[Josep Dowling]

Moot with the increase 25% in wages due to reaching CL clause?

Exactly, this point isn’t being considered by so many people. If Sancho, Rashford and Antony get a 25% increase in salary do you think they will want to leave? Do you think a club will match those salaries?

In some respects getting Champions League might hinder the transfer strategy because we need to ship out those players

 

[Posh Red]

Exactly, this point isn’t being considered by so many people. If Sancho, Rashford and Antony get a 25% increase in salary do you think they will want to leave? Do you think a club will match those salaries?

In some respects getting Champions League might hinder the transfer strategy because we need to ship out those players

Surely that would just be a ‘neutral’ situation, given United could use some of that extra revenue to pay off part of their contracts and facilitate these transfers?

 

[Josep Dowling]

Surely that would just be a ‘neutral’ situation, given United could use some of that extra revenue to pay off part of their contracts and facilitate these transfers?

Even if it’s neutral how has that helped the situation? What is the point of being in the Champions League if you cannot win it. We will get 8 games where we likely get embarrassed. It might help the transfer budget or do we go after silly signings again and put them on wages we can only afford with Champions League qualification, which is very unlikely given league form over 18 months? Too much is being put on the Europa League win in my opinion.

I think being out of Europe all together will help the club reset. We can have proper breaks between games and focus on the league. We should have been doing that anyway.

 

[Posh Red]

Even if it’s neutral how has that helped the situation? What is the point of being in the Champions League if you cannot win it. We will get 8 games where we likely get embarrassed. It might help the transfer budget or do we go after silly signings again and put them on wages we can only afford with Champions League qualification, which is very unlikely given league form over 18 months? Too much is being put on the Europa League win in my opinion.

I think being out of Europe all together will help the club reset. We can have proper breaks between games and focus on the league. We should have been doing that anyway.

I didn’t say it helped. I was questioning your suggestion that making champions league football would hinder transfer strategy.

 

[Josep Dowling]

I didn’t say it helped. I was questioning your suggestion that making champions league football would hinder transfer strategy.

Surely it’s obvious? Sancho, Rashford and Antony won’t want to leave with a 25% increase to their salaries. The club won’t buy them out. The only option will be to loan them out. That doesn’t help the club and they’re banking on selling these players. If we are out of Europe and on their existing salaries they’re more likely to want to leave.

 

[Posh Red]

Surely it’s obvious? Sancho, Rashford and Antony won’t want to leave with a 25% increase to their salaries. The club won’t buy them out. The only option will be to loan them out. That doesn’t help the club and they’re banking on selling these players. If we are out of Europe and on their existing salaries they’re more likely to want to leave.

No, it isn’t obvious for the reason I explained.

Winning Europa is now a negative. This is just getting silly now.

 

[Steve 007]

The bottom line is that if we’d have played Bruno and Amad yesterday and either got injured we’d be stuffed.

Defeat yesterday felt like the rest of the season. A complete disaster and harsh wake up call.

Our first team has been so poor, so it’s not a surprise our reserves got smashed.

On the positives another Gernacho stunner (he’s been poor but there’s a star in there somewhere). A Diallo cracker. Minutes for Mainoo and Mount and a first start for Obi.

Next season I think we’ll be back to around 5th with a much brighter outlook.

 

[NoPace]

The players at an individual level have been fine imo. Yoro, Ugarte, DeLigt, Mazraoui, and Zirkzee have all been good buys. Dorgu is obviously still a work in progress, as are Obi and Heaven.

Too early to say with the teenagers (bolded), but I think this is just a sign of our standards having gotten too low on the other ones.

De Ligt cost a lot and he doesn't look a starting quality CB for a top Prem side. That sort of player you'd want to cost a lot less than 50M.

Mazroaui was fine, cost 15M, decent right back, 27 years old, sure.

Ugarte, love his fight, but he was expensive and he's struggled on the ball. Similar to De Ligt, but younger. Don't really want him starting, but a useful squad player that would ideally backup the main DM and they'd play together when you want solidity or to closeout games. That's a 30M player, not a 60M one.

Zirkzee, well he has talent, but he's an enigma. Right now I definitely wouldn't say he's a good buy, but this was around the age Berbatov started scoring 1 in 2 in Germany and strikers without pace sometimes take time to develop, you can put this with the teenagers if you'd like.

So, Mazraoui might constitute a "good" buy, but I wouldn't say any others do. Would any of them start for any of the top 5 teams in the league? Ugarte would challenge Joelinton as the 3rd man with Bruno Guimares and Tonali, probably comes down who the manager thinks brings out the best in those latter 2 players.

 

[Beachryan]

Maybe more for INEOS than Ruben, not sure, but why aren't the youth teams also playing 'our' system?

For the deserved criticism coming the way of (particularly defenders) stepping into the first team - it's gotta be an utter mind-f*ck to shift drastically between systems. It's really daft imo, if the club is all about Amorim than we have to play this way throughout the age groups.

 

[Steve 007]

Too early to say with the teenagers (bolded), but I think this is just a sign of our standards having gotten too low on the other ones.

De Ligt cost a lot and he doesn't look a starting quality CB for a top Prem side. That sort of player you'd want to cost a lot less than 50M.

Mazroaui was fine, cost 15M, decent right back, 27 years old, sure.

Ugarte, love his fight, but he was expensive and he's struggled on the ball. Similar to De Ligt, but younger. Don't really want him starting, but a useful squad player that would ideally backup the main DM and they'd play together when you want solidity or to closeout games. That's a 30M player, not a 60M one.

Zirkzee, well he has talent, but he's an enigma. Right now I definitely wouldn't say he's a good buy, but this was around the age Berbatov started scoring 1 in 2 in Germany and strikers without pace sometimes take time to develop, you can put this with the teenagers if you'd like.

So, Mazraoui might constitute a "good" buy, but I wouldn't say any others do. Would any of them start for any of the top 5 teams in the league? Ugarte would challenge Joelinton as the 3rd man with Bruno Guimares and Tonali, probably comes down who the manager thinks brings out the best in those latter 2 players.

Personally I think Ugarte is quality. Not sure there are many better midfields out there than Newcastles including Liverpool and Arsenal.

 

[stretford ender58]

It’s been a catastrophically bad league campaign
Even if we win the Europa league we can’t ignore that

The kids gloves will come off the fan base in regards to Amorim next season
Summer transfer window and pre-season will mean we expect a major improvement in league results

To be honest I’m kinda over the whole results are bad so sack the manager attitude
The major problem isn’t the manager, it’s the squad we’ve assembled
It’s just not good enough

Look at Liverpool, lose Klopp and bring in some random bald Dutch manager and they keep their standards up and win the league
It’s not because Slot’s some master tactician and great manager, he’s a good coach who’s inherited an extremely good well balanced squad and been smart enough not to change too much

 

[Nevilles.Wear.Prada]

Trying to joke how he wiuld have gotten top 6 finish.

What I find completely strange in this thread is the negative spinning. And by reading so many times how the start of the next season will be bad you'd think that they wish that.

We are on course towards getting lesser points than the season we actually got relegated. This team made of many players that just won FA cup beating city. His greatest accomplishment is convincing everyone this internationals are relegation candidate players. They are playing in outdated formation that highlights their weakness and shunt natural flow of play. Insisting on 7 defensive player irrespective of opposition home and away is not clever management. You give him the summer we will lose good young players like mainoo and garnacho only for him to bring a dorgu and then what? He is not the guy that will get us top half finish. Nevermind top 6.

 

[Brand Nubian]

The bottom line is that if we’d have played Bruno and Amad yesterday and either got injured we’d be stuffed.

Defeat yesterday felt like the rest of the season. A complete disaster and harsh wake up call.

Our first team has been so poor, so it’s not a surprise our reserves got smashed.

On the positives another Gernacho stunner (he’s been poor but there’s a star in there somewhere). A Diallo cracker. Minutes for Mainoo and Mount and a first start for Obi.

Next season I think we’ll be back to around 5th with a much brighter outlook.

Top 5 most likely wont guarantee CL qualiffication next year. City are on a downward spiral on and off the pitch, Liverpool reportedly in need of big summer overhaul, Chelsea are a circus with zero short/medium term stability, and no intelligent top player will want to join a lego head shaped woo-doo project at the Emirates - dedicating their training sessions to learn a dark arts of defending and attacking set-plays. These clubs wont go too far in Champions League. So it really must be top 4 for Amorim or bust.

 

[Steve 007]

Top 5 most likely wont guarantee CL qualiffication next year. City are on a downward spiral on and off the pitch, Liverpool reportedly in need of big summer overhaul, Chelsea are a circus with zero short/medium term stability, and no intelligent top player will want to join a lego head shaped woo-doo project at the Emirates - dedicating their training sessions to learn a dark arts of defending and attacking set-plays. These clubs wont go too far in Champions League. So it really must be top 4 for Amorim or bust.

As much as I agree that there’s an opportunity, unless there’s serious high quality recruitment especially in the attacking department then there’s zero chance. I think 5 top players is a minimum. This isn’t on Amorim we made the mistake of thinking that Hojilund was able to lead the line this season as our only number 9.

I think Liverpool do not need an overhaul. A top central striker and two others of high quality should be enough. A top striker for Arsenal, they might even get Lego pep out and get someone like Alonso in (if their board are smart).