Scotland was the first country that came to my mind.
Countries that ‘stopped’ producing top players...
- Thread starter Rozay
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I would qualify my statement by stating it should be implied it's a sliding scale that is getting worse every 5 years or so. Of course relative to the times Brazil had the greatest exports on the planet, to falling in line with other nations, to now, relative to scale, falling behind other nations.
As I said previously, they will always have a few top players dotted around, but they are some way off what a football mad, treat development and export as a business production line of times gone by. This is very much aligned with what used to be expected of Brazil in World Cups to what it is now. Brazil were always favourites with a few others expected to meet them in the final - that died with Ronaldinho ('06) and has been a sliding scale since, and rightfully so. In terms of what they are about (a nation who used to expect to win the World Cup) they've had to swallow humble pie because they aren't the dominant force they used to be.
But as I say, they are one of many nations who have been routed for talent and have no foundations from which to build on as they traditionally did.
Ireland and Scotland and until recently Norway. A case could also be made for Holland
South Korea had a huge development under Gus Hiddink, then it just stopped.
Japan had Nakata and Nakamura, then, to a lesser extent, Keisuke Honda, and then, not sure what happened.
I always think about these two countries because upon once a time, they played beautiful football.
Japan had Nakata and Nakamura, then, to a lesser extent, Keisuke Honda, and then, not sure what happened.
I always think about these two countries because upon once a time, they played beautiful football.
Czech Republic .
Hardly, those players mentioned above plus Shay Given, Paul McGrath, John Giles, Dave O'Leary, Kevin Moran, Richard Dunne, Steve Finnan, Steven Carr, Niall Quinn, Frank Stapleton etc etc are all irish born, irish produced. The second generation talents like Rice and Grealish, were used to supplement the core group that were Irish born and bred. We aren't producing them as much anymore, but football is far down the pecking order with the majority of kids in Ireland. Gaelic football an/or Hurling would be the number one sport, followed by the other, with rugby having taken over from soccer in a lot of areas. Soccer is still strong in the urban areas but for the most part, the GAA is number one
Cameroon?
Hungary?
Those you mention are Englishmen and raised in England.
My list is genuine Irish lads born and reared.
Never thought of Giles as he was way before my time and McGrath was very good yeah good shout.
He'd the potential to be up there with the greats had he not been so fond of the booze
We had a good run from 1988 to 1994. Got to quarter finals of Italia 90.
Early noughties were ok too.
Other than that its mediocre
Australia, can't see them qualify for the next world cup.
Mexico maybe?
Relative to their history, Italy?
Well, the question was "Stopped producing top players" as opposed to "Ballon D'Or caliber players"
Brazil is still the most present nationality in UCL knockout stages if you account both teams. For instance last year Liverpool had 3 Brazilians starting for them in the final, which was the most present country in their starting Xi. The year before in Juve-Real Madrid there were 4 starters from Brazil which also was the most of any other nation.
Ivory Coast
They are a nation that has a good generation of players, but other than that, I wouldn’t say they have a history of producing top players.
I'm not a big fan of U.S.S.R. as a concept, but if we're talking about sports, they've set up a brilliant infrastructure that allowed young footballers (and other athletes) to develop quite nicely. Russia hasn't done that — and the Soviet infrastructure & system gets worse and worse with every year going by. You still get a wild talent like Golovin here and there, as we have 140 million people and some history/tradition in terms of football (unlike the likes of China/India/Pakistan), but generally it's only going to get worse. I'm not sure how much enthusiasm did the recent World Cup put into young children though, but we've fecked up our chance to update our football infrastructure up to date.
The likes of Arshavin, Zhirkov and the rest of that 2008 team — or Mostovoy/Kanchelskis etc., were all born in the Soviet Union and are the products of that system.
Holland is a great shout. Some of their teams were incredible. Always found it weird they didnt win more internationally
In relative terms, though, it is the biggest fall from grace since Brazil started exporting en masse. Falling in line should never be standard for the most storied football nation there has ever been.
I think each country should be looked at in relation to what we've known them for compared to what they are now. In relative terms it's now a trickle as opposed to the open flow we once saw.
I think a superstar could help inspire people. I know you have spoken about infrastructure, but then Brazil always through a spanner in this who produce Balon’Dor winners barefoot in the street.
I think when Dzagoev came through and shone at 19 in a World Cup (or Euros, can’t remember) - it would been good if he got a big move to a United or a Madrid. Give the kids something to look up to. As you said, they had a decent generation a decade ago with the likes of Arshavin and Pavlyuchenko - but for a country of their size they should do better. The likes of Zenit invested a lot of money but mainly in foreign talent. CSKA typically has more homegrown players, but I don’t think the money the same there.
It's a bit different, since
- you can play outside barefoot for, I don't know, 4 months maximum in Russia? It's a bit better if you have boots, but you still have almost half a year of snow and cold
- the enthusiasm and general involvement in football is simply incomparable between the two. Every Brazilian kid older than 3 dreams of football — and not only because of Neymar or Pelé. It's also a somehow realistic (at least in their minds, I doubt that the percentage is any good) option of getting out of poverty — especially with the amount of international attention on the Brazilian youth. In Russia, I don't think that many poor kids see that as a realistic option (Golovin did though, he's a weird example of a case that doesn't really happen in Russia)
Who has Argentina produced since Messi and Ratface?
Fair point tbh.
They have Lauraro Martinez as their big hope now, and Lo Celso is a talented young player I guess. Icardi hasn’t made an impact internationally but at club level he’s been a top striker.
Italy has always had one or two world class players.
Been a long time since they've had any top talents
Been a long time since they've had any top talents
Bulgaria and Romania
They have Verratti now, and a number of promising youngsters like Chiesa, Zaniolo and Tonali.
I think Italiana play the game a bit differently to other countries and they have maybe had to adapt. Up until recently, they played without any wingers in Serie A. Many teams still don’t. They have a low emphasis on physical ability too, and their teams are slow and weak compared to other nations.
Finland has never been a big developer of talented players, but nevertheless they have slowed down somewhat since the days of Hyypiä and Litmanen. Though in the last 10-15 years there has been much more investment in youth which is only now beginning to bear fruit. The likes of young forward Lassi Lappalainen earning a move to Bologna, for instance, from where he's gone on loan to Minnesota Utd and done okay. Aapo Halme, a young centerback with potential to become an aerial powerhouse, being a starter for Championship side Barnsley. Glen Kamara playing at Rangers. Lukas Hradecky at Leverkusen. But these are not elite players, merely good ones.
Scandanavia has had very barren period except for Norway who seem to have a few potential top talents in Haaland and Odegaard
I always thought USSR had a good set up so it's why the best players got the opportunity. A lot of them like Blokhin, Rebrov and even Kanchelskis was from Ukraine.
I also think it's the change in priorities. Look at the West Indies in cricket.
I also think it's the change in priorities. Look at the West Indies in cricket.
For countries like Scotland, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland etc in the past it was a lot of working class people with few other distractions playing all the time. Nowadays there’s so many other distractions and you don’t see kids playing football in the streets anymore. It’s all organised coaching now so you’re never going to get the same number of kids doing that and smaller countries don’t have the resources for more coaching. That’s my guess anyway.
Germany somehow managed to make a World Cup final in 2002 but that was a really weak period of their history. If you're making a best team of this century nearly all the players played in the second decade, apart from Ballack and Kahn. Their team had lots of average players that wouldn't make teams today or in the 70s/80s.
Italy are still producing good defensive midfielders, centre backs and keepers but there's a real lack of flair number 10s. In the late 90s/early 2000s they had Baggio, Zola, Di Canio, Totti, Del Piero etc.
Holland I wouldn't say are much worse than the past now after a rough few years because if you look through the middle of their team it's Van Dijk, De Ligt, De Vrij, Blind De Jong, Van de Beek, Wijnaldum, which is as good a spine as anyone. The problem is depth, they are still stuck with players like Babel, who wouldn't get near the German or French teams.
Italy are still producing good defensive midfielders, centre backs and keepers but there's a real lack of flair number 10s. In the late 90s/early 2000s they had Baggio, Zola, Di Canio, Totti, Del Piero etc.
Holland I wouldn't say are much worse than the past now after a rough few years because if you look through the middle of their team it's Van Dijk, De Ligt, De Vrij, Blind De Jong, Van de Beek, Wijnaldum, which is as good a spine as anyone. The problem is depth, they are still stuck with players like Babel, who wouldn't get near the German or French teams.
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Hungary surely?
Scotland got one of the best left backs in europe currently and some really promising central midfielders.
Scotland got one of the best left backs in europe currently and some really promising central midfielders.
Yeah, Hungary has to win this. In the 50's they were the best side in the world (that 54 WC final they got screwed by decisions, foul on their GK then a highly controversial disallowed goal plus it is pretty much accepted the German's doped up) and they were still very good in the 60's then they turned into absolute garbage.
Being the housepower that it is Italy is the one that comes to my mind first, I saw a generation of Maldini, Nesta, Buffon, Chiellini, Cannavaro, Pirlo, Gattuso, Pipo Inzaghi, Totti, Del Piero, great great talents and now you see their national team and its bang average. Yeah they have some talents like Verrati but far far away from the talents they used to have.
Yeah, in my childhood they knocked out Netherlands to qualify for Mexico '86, with Lajos Détári as their star player, and knowing about their history, you wouldn't bet on them being absent ever since, with Gábor Király's pants being the most famous Hungarian footballing symbol in the last 30 years.
And the legend that is Zoltan Gera!
It's kind of sad - play efficiency (as described by better and better stats, tracking tech), fitness (pace / physicality / stamina), sports science, nutrition, players are machines crafted to perfection these days. I wonder if we'll ever see a Ronaldinho again anytime soon.
You won't see a Ronaldinho again, just like you won't see a Maradona, Messi, Pelé, or any other of the outstanding players. But you will get new stars, who we'll all complain about not seeing their like again when they retire. Rinse and repeat.