Why don't we put pressure on Refs?

roonster09

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Surely it's a clear tactic thats works so well. Lampard talked nonsense before FA cup game, they were allowed to kick our players all game without getting a yellow.

Today Chelsea players made so many tactical fouls and not a single player near the ref to put pressure on him.

So many times we have big decisions gone against us and our players barely lose their shit, might sound harsh, it's sort of sums up with Maguire as captain.
 

kiristao

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Totally agree. Maguire is way too nice with the way he questions the refs. Needs to be far more in their face. Forget the penalty, there were so so many fouls that deserved bookings that no one other than Bruno were reacting to.
But that lack of aggression and passion has been our problem in our play as well so it's not surprising.
 

One Night Only

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We are actually doing it right.

The refs are in the wrong for not booking the players crowding them and moaning at them.

Azpilacueta should be sent off every game for his gob.
 

roonster09

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One Night Only said:
We are actually doing it right.

The refs are in the wrong for not booking the players crowding them and moaning at them.

Azpilacueta should be sent off every game for his gob.
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We are not. Refs are humans, they will give decisions depending on how much they shit their pants when player is near them.
 

Bojan11

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One Night Only said:
We are actually doing it right.

The refs are in the wrong for not booking the players crowding them and moaning at them.

Azpilacueta should be sent off every game for his gob.
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Refs will never book players for crowding them and moaning. A few seasons back on the opening day of the season, they were doing it for a few weeks and then stopped.
 

Superunknown

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One Night Only said:
We are actually doing it right.

The refs are in the wrong for not booking the players crowding them and moaning at them.

Azpilacueta should be sent off every game for his gob.
Click to expand...
Completely agree with this.

Refs have been giving all of these powers and are still doing a shite job. They've got the video replays which are meant to make their lives so much easier. They've got all these protocols about being able to book players for dissent or crowding around them. There were several players who didn't get cards today who should have got them. The standard of consistency is very, very poor. It's too random.

I don't want to see our players crowding refs and begging for decisions. But I do want to see the refs booking sides for crowding around, for cynical tackles, kicking the ball away, etc.
 

One Night Only

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Bojan11 said:
Refs will never book players for crowding them and moaning. A few seasons back on the opening day of the season, they were doing it for a few weeks and then stopped.
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That's because the referees are incompetant. They don't even book players for diving. The FA need to get the refs in order at some point because at the moment they're all like new starters on their first day of the job.
 

One Night Only

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roonster09 said:
We are not. Refs are humans, they will give decisions depending on how much they shit their pants when player is near them.
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And that is why they should be booking players for crowding and trying to influence them. Pretty simple. If 4 players get booked in one instance then they'll learn.
 

kiristao

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Superunknown said:
Completely agree with this.

Refs have been giving all of these powers and are still doing a shite job. They've got the video replays which are meant to make their lives so much easier. They've got all these protocols about being able to book players for dissent or crowding around them. There were several players who didn't get cards today who should have got them. The standard of consistency is very, very poor. It's too random.

I don't want to see our players crowding refs and begging for decisions. But I do want to see the refs booking sides for crowding around, for cynical tackles, kicking the ball away, etc.
Click to expand...
One Night Only said:
We are actually doing it right.

The refs are in the wrong for not booking the players crowding them and moaning at them.

Azpilacueta should be sent off every game for his gob.
Click to expand...
What both of you are saying would be absolutely spot on in a perfect world. Unfortunately we aren't in one.
Where we are crowding the ref, feigning injury like lallana, screaming like you have been shot Everytime there is contact, etc works. If we want to be successful, unfortunately we need to do it ourselves.
As soon as we saw 3 Chelsea players next to the monitor when the ref was looking at the pen, our players should have also gone there to pressurise him.
 

roonster09

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One Night Only said:
And that is why they should be booking players for crowding and trying to influence them. Pretty simple. If 4 players get booked in one instance then they'll learn.
Click to expand...
Refs dont do that and we always end up on the receiving end.
 

King Eric 7

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Sandikan said:
It is, but the ref and media wouldn't have picked up on it before Ole did.
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I think the attempts to influence the refs are structural with Chelsea, not just an off the cuff comment by whoever is in charge of their first team. I think they will have done everything they can prior to the match to remind the ref of any past incidents like this.
 

Superunknown

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kiristao said:
What both of you are saying would be absolutely spot on in a perfect world. Unfortunately we aren't in one.
Where we are crowding the ref, feigning injury like lallana, screaming like you have been shot Everytime there is contact, etc works. If we want to be successful, unfortunately we need to do it ourselves.
As soon as we saw 3 Chelsea players next to the monitor when the ref was looking at the pen, our players should have also gone there to pressurise him.
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Maybe a strategy is to highlight this in the post-match interviews, or even before games. If the refs have these powers and aren't using them, then they need to be pulled up on it. I don't want to see ridiculous situations where we have a dozen or so players crowding around the ref at every contentious decision. It's classless and we should be above that. The refs need to grow a spine and need to be pulled up on this.
 

Sparky Rhiwabon

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I do think that refs have decided that we’ve had our allocation of penalties for the season now.
 

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roonster09 said:
Surely it's a clear tactic thats works so well. Lampard talked nonsense before FA cup game, they were allowed to kick our players all game without getting a yellow.

Today Chelsea players made so many tactical fouls and not a single player near the ref to put pressure on him.

So many times we have big decisions gone against us and our players barely lose their shit, might sound harsh, it's sort of sums up with Maguire as captain.
Click to expand...
Coming from a country where that's the normal tactic, to pressure refs before, during and after the game I can tell you the Football environment in England is much much better. With that said I don't see nothing wrong if the club demands a formal explanation to some of the Refs decision in this particular game, or regarding some decisions. At least in England you know you will receive an answer.
 

Water Melon

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Maguire is not a captain material. Bruno deserves the armband as he would be allowed to question the refs more. When it comes to leading the team, He is 10 levels below Keane, 5 levels below Neville and 2 below Evra. Today and that Martial incident show how vocal Harry is in supporting his team on the pitch. Refs bottled it, Shaw called them on it, while Harry is quietly packing his bag after having called his missus to ask if she needed some bread or low fat yoghurt.
 

Zoo

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Maguire and Bruno do. I think Ole needs to say something now.
 

Annihilate Now!

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We should absolutely be doing more of this. We've seen decisions go against Lindelöf and DDG in recent weeks to minimal fuss... Its all well and good doing things "the right way"... But so long as other teams are doing it and gaining an advantage, and refs are weak mentally... Well yeah, we need to start being dickheads
 

croadyman

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Too nice just like Ole said the other week so we should be looking to do something about that
 

Camilo

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roonster09 said:
We are not. Refs are humans, they will give decisions depending on how much they shit their pants when player is near them.
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No they won't, they're not little children who feel pressured by some slightly unreasonable morons who kick a ball.
 

MikeKing

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Once we start to try to do this, you'd bet they will be coming down on us hard to make an example out of us. Really show people that they sort out any attempt of Man Utd influencing the results.. for a few weeks.. in our games. Obviously only applying that treatment to Man Utd singularly.

I see players crowding refs, keepers being protected all the time now, teams getting away with persistent fouling of individuals (James). We act respectfully and the opposition get a competitive edge on us because of the lack of integrity with the refs, we've had De Gea assaulted, and a red card shown to Herrera for persistent team fouling. All part of well timed micromanagement from the league to keep us in check, without any consistency in terms of these rules applying to anyone else in the league. This time around the main thing is the penalties, so they've just removed them. If we start to pressure on refs, they will come down on us by not showing class as that's much easier than actually putting in some work into changing and training referees, updating ref programs and rules etc.
 

Raredaredevil

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Fitchett said:
https://images.app.goo.gl/1X5zMLEAjQ2f3orb7

Not that I am advocating a return to this, but compare our team of winners 20 years ago, with our current team's attitude.
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Funny thing is the headline of the article mentions that Gary Neville said shouting at referees is a waste of time yet it works for us. What I'd kill to have any one of our old United players under us now. This current team is too nice and has no proper leaders. Imagine if Keane, Neville, Ferdinand, Giggs, Robson, heard something like that from the referee during the match. I don't think they would have let it slide like this. Maguire is just too passive.
 

The Brown Bull

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Remember a penalty being awarded against us at OT years back V Boro?
Keane was like a rabid dog, Becks, Stam, Nev, & the rest were not far behind. Pure rage & passion. The pen stood but Bosnich (I think} saved it!
We scored a late winner after. Rage, fight, passion, desire whatever you want to call it turned zero points into 3.
 

Martial'sEmergingSmile

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You know Fergie would be taking a ban, happily, to turn the tide in his next press conference.

Can imagine him saying something along the lines of "The referees have allowed themselves to get conned by other managers. You have to be strong-minded as a referee, and a lot of these have showed that they're not. I think a lot of them care more about what the papers say about them the next day than they do about trying to make the right decision."

Infact, he said almost exactly that. It was after the stories started coming out about Mike Riley apparently giving us a lot of penalties. After that, we had a few big decisions go against us. Fergie called it out - got a touchline ban and a fine - but suddenly we started getting decisions again.
 

Red_toad

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Sandikan said:
It is, but the ref and media wouldn't have picked up on it before Ole did.
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I'd be pretty sure no one has asked the ref what he reading leading up to the game! So how would anyone know for sure?
Article is just wrong and not a sporting thing to be doing. Clubs shouldn't be publishing stuff out about alleged violent challenges by players of other teams.
 

RedDevil@84

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We should just start publishing a list of divers in the opposition team before every game.
 

red_de_pologne

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Martial'sEmergingSmile said:
You know Fergie would be taking a ban, happily, to turn the tide in his next press conference.

Can imagine him saying something along the lines of "The referees have allowed themselves to get conned by other managers. You have to be strong-minded as a referee, and a lot of these have showed that they're not. I think a lot of them care more about what the papers say about them the next day than they do about trying to make the right decision."

Infact, he said almost exactly that. It was after the stories started coming out about Mike Riley apparently giving us a lot of penalties. After that, we had a few big decisions go against us. Fergie called it out - got a touchline ban and a fine - but suddenly we started getting decisions again.
Click to expand...
Yeah, the shambles of last night definitely need a response from the manager, one that will put pressure back on refs.
 

RedDevil@84

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croadyman said:
Whoever wrote this should be sacked immediately because it should have never got out, the fact this has had zero media coverage is an absolute joke and no apology from the club either
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Here's your apology.

Purposefully using the words "Chelsea website" to mock Ole's comments

 

RashyForPM

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MikeKing said:
Once we start to try to do this, you'd bet they will be coming down on us hard to make an example out of us. Really show people that they sort out any attempt of Man Utd influencing the results.. for a few weeks.. in our games. Obviously only applying that treatment to Man Utd singularly.

I see players crowding refs, keepers being protected all the time now, teams getting away with persistent fouling of individuals (James). We act respectfully and the opposition get a competitive edge on us because of the lack of integrity with the refs, we've had De Gea assaulted, and a red card shown to Herrera for persistent team fouling. All part of well timed micromanagement from the league to keep us in check, without any consistency in terms of these rules applying to anyone else in the league. This time around the main thing is the penalties, so they've just removed them. If we start to pressure on refs, they will come down on us by not showing class as that's much easier than actually putting in some work into changing and training referees, updating ref programs and rules etc.
Click to expand...
That was infuriating. The Clattenburg wannabe t**t Oliver even said that he’d book the next one to foul Hazard, which meant two soft fouls by Herrera and he was off. It’s when refs do things like this and what Attwell did last night that people abuse them. It’s obviously wrong and I don’t condone it, but you can really see why when they literally do their best to influence games to either protect themselves or help one team win.
 

padzilla

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Clubs are clearly being coached with tactical fouling in mind. It is an especially effective tactic, especially when the referee allows constant fouls to go unpunished, plus it winds up the opposition. Maguire was booked yesterday for his first real foul despite pointing out to the referee that it was his first foul when Chelsea players were getting away with it all over the pitch. It's common sense for coaches to exploit this tactic to be fair.
 
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