The bizarre panic about players not being ready for the new season

TheReligion · Aug 6, 2021

There's an argument raging on RE Sancho about him not being back earlier and missing a few games (he won't, he'll get minutes v Leeds).

What I'm wondering though is why some posters are getting worked up about pre-season and seem to think the players that haven't had a full one at United will suddenly be unable to play football again or be majorly unfit.

The majority of the late arrivals have just played a huge covid enhanced season and straight through to major international tournaments (EC and Copa). During these tournaments they are pretty much 'on season' training, diet and match intensity. They have had a pre season, a much more intensive one than they would have had they stayed at the club!

The notion that players like Sancho, Varane, Cavani, Pogba will be unable to play for several games baffles me. Yes they haven't played with their colleagues but so what? It's not a massive issue. They'll be fit and ready to go. If anything the rest will have done then good physically and mentally.

M Bison · Aug 6, 2021

In theory yes, but having played a lot myself, there’s being fit and then there’s being match fit. 2 very different things.

Hectic · Aug 6, 2021

If they aren't fit and ready to go can we verbally batter you.

Marwood · Aug 6, 2021

TheReligion said:
There's an argument raging on RE Sancho about him not being back earlier and missing a few games (he won't, he'll get minutes v Leeds).

What I'm wondering though is why some posters are getting worked up about pre-season and seem to think the players that haven't had a full one at United will suddenly be unable to play football again or be majorly unfit.

The majority of the late arrivals have just played a huge covid enhanced season and straight through to major international tournaments (EC and Copa). During these tournaments they are pretty much 'on season' training, diet and match intensity. They have had a pre season, a much more intensive one than they would have had they stayed at the club!

The notion that players like Sancho, Varane, Cavani, Pogba will be unable to play for several games baffles me. Yes they haven't played with their colleagues but so what? It's not a massive issue. They'll be fit and ready to go. If anything the rest will have done then good physically and mentally.

You only need to look at the start of last season to poke a few holes in this.

But I don't think anyone is complaining about the overall prep for the season. It's just Sancho really.

If I was turning up for pre season and the only other bloke who hadn't was Cavani I'd be asking myself a few questions.

SirAnderson · Aug 6, 2021

Where's that armchair manager thread I made that I just bumped today?

In other news, yeah I agree with the OP.
I personally think we had it worse last year honestly.
It definitely will take some games to get into the groove of things, and hopefully our quality will be enough, or we get lucky and not lose when we play poorly early days, but every team will be struggled to get up to speed, it's not exclusive to us.

Champ · Aug 6, 2021

Again, every team is in the same boat, what with Lot of players away for the Euro's or gold cup or whatever.
Really not an issue, we should have the depth to win against a Leeds side who have only had their full team available for one pre season game.

Xaviboy · Aug 6, 2021

Let's hope we beat Leeds then.

Sandikan · Aug 6, 2021

"Bizarre?"

It's like you have forgotten last season, where we were so unfit that we got absolutely taken to the cleaners by Palace at our own ground. It was like a dad's team against an Olympic sprinting squad, it was that shocking a mismatch.

There's a few teams we'd less want to play, but Leeds will bring a guarantee of high work rate, and could be a bad team to play if we haven't got the fitness levels right.

TrustInOle · Aug 6, 2021

The after effects of last year, I think, are still in the back of people's minds. This year should be the same as any other summer tournament, a couple will be lacking match fitness but most should be overall relatively still fit.

TheReligion · Aug 6, 2021

Sandikan said:
"Bizarre?"

It's like you have forgotten last season, where we were so unfit that we got absolutely taken to the cleaners by Palace at our own ground. It was like a dad's team against an Olympic sprinting squad, it was that shocking a mismatch.

There's a few teams we'd less want to play, but Leeds will bring a guarantee of high work rate, and could be a bad team to play if we haven't got the fitness levels right.

That's the point isn't it. The majority of the key players have been playing and training all summer as part of international competition. It's bizarre to think they'll all be coming back unable to kick a ball or run 100 meters.

Gopher Brown · Aug 6, 2021

Sandikan said:
"Bizarre?"

It's like you have forgotten last season, where we were so unfit that we got absolutely taken to the cleaners by Palace at our own ground. It was like a dad's team against an Olympic sprinting squad, it was that shocking a mismatch.

There's a few teams we'd less want to play, but Leeds will bring a guarantee of high work rate, and could be a bad team to play if we haven't got the fitness levels right.

And then got trashed 1-6 by Spurs after an unconvincing 2-3 win at Brighton

Pexbo · Aug 6, 2021

If he’s a bit late back he will be fresher a few games later at the end of the season. We have a squad. It’s not a problem.

Leftback99 · Aug 6, 2021

TheReligion said:
That's the point isn't it. The majority of the key players have been playing and training all summer as part of international competition. It's bizarre to think they'll all be coming back unable to kick a ball or run 100 meters.

They played all last summer in the PL, had 3 weeks off and came back looking like they couldn't kick a ball or run 100 metres.

Rajiztar · Aug 6, 2021

TheReligion said:
That's the point isn't it. The majority of the key players have been playing and training all summer as part of international competition. It's bizarre to think they'll all be coming back unable to kick a ball or run 100 meters.

It's true though. Players need the rhythm as well as rest. Without proper pre-season many will find hard to find form at the start of the season.

Some times it will be nightmare to deal with certain players like hazard who not even fit to walk when come back from holidays.

KcB32 · Aug 6, 2021

I don't understand this either. Every year it seems we're worried about a poor preseason. All teams follow the same schedule, we're by no means in a unique position.
Fitness should not be an excuse. These are professional athletes, paid astronomical wages; being fit for the season is the bare minimum.
It's up to the manager to provide a game plan the players can execute. If he feels the chemistry among the team is not up-to-par, then he should adjust (simplify) the game plan to something he's confident our players can execute.

TheReligion · Aug 6, 2021

Leftback99 said:
They played all last summer in the PL, had 3 weeks off and came back looking like they couldn't kick a ball or run 100 metres.

Rajiztar said:
It's true though. Players need the rhythm as well as rest. Without proper pre-season many will find hard to find form at the start of the season.

Some times it will be nightmare to deal with certain players like hazard who not even fit to walk when come back from holidays.

I'm still struggling here. They've all played international competition and training camps. Why is that not a proper pre season and why would they be better off playing Preston North End?

TheReligion · Aug 6, 2021

We are also talking about world cup winning Varane and Pogba, ultimate professional Edi Cavani and young hungry Jadon Sancho.

Are these guys going to be unfit and unable to play football? It's utter codswallop.

spiriticon · Aug 6, 2021

If a player can come back from holiday and go straight into the first team and play well, then more power to them.

What I don't really want to hear is how players are 'lacking match practice' and 'need a few games to get up to speed'. Same shit every year and we're out the title race by Christmas.

Sandikan · Aug 6, 2021

Gopher Brown said:
And then got trashed 1-6 by Spurs after an unconvincing 2-3 win at Brighton

At least the 6-1 had a red card after about 30mins, so freak results can happen.
Plus Maguire not only being unfit, but having had the nightmare arrest thing on his head.

Last summer really was everything conspiring come to think of it.

Just hope we can start well, as we could do good things this season.

Leftback99 · Aug 6, 2021

TheReligion said:
I'm still struggling here. They've all played international competition and training camps. Why is that not a proper pre season and why would they be better off playing Preston North End?

Just rewatch the start of last season. They aren't coming out of training or competition they are coming from a 3 week holiday.

cyril C · Aug 7, 2021

TheReligion said:
That's the point isn't it. The majority of the key players have been playing and training all summer as part of international competition. It's bizarre to think they'll all be coming back unable to kick a ball or run 100 meters.

This happens almost every season, particularly when your Club or Country does well at international level.

The only question is, do you start your game with the fittest 11, or big names who is 40% ready. Ole paid the price last season, hope he has learnt it at the Club's expense.

Eddy_JukeZ · Aug 7, 2021

spiriticon said:
If a player can come back from holiday and go straight into the first team and play well, then more power to them.

What I don't really want to hear is how players are 'lacking match practice' and 'need a few games to get up to speed'. Same shit every year and we're out the title race by Christmas.

Get ready for it if we drop points to Leeds.

Dan-Utd · Aug 7, 2021

For me pre season isn't about results, it's about fitness first and secondly getting to know their team mates, getting to know each others games, ensuring that they are ready to get off to a good start.

WR10 · Aug 7, 2021

M Bison said:
In theory yes, but having played a lot myself, there’s being fit and then there’s being match fit. 2 very different things.

Thanks Geoff

criticalanalysis · Aug 7, 2021

For the players who have had 2-3 weeks of training and didn't let themselves go during the off season, then imo 'getting match fit' really shouldn't be an issue even without having actual games.

With the modern sport science knowledge and fitness trainers etc we have today, how are we not able to get players up to speed?

When some say 'fit' and 'match fit', of course there is a difference but surely, most of the latter can replicated if you really wanted to. I'd imagine it's just hardcore dedicated training and getting used to the amount of high intensity runs, intense cardio, sharpness on the ball and tactical flexibility.

I can't imagine, if a professional athlete really wanted to 'push' themself by doing lots of sprint work and building that stamina up, along with lots of ball work as a team can't achieve 90% of 'match fitness' on the training field.

Think Leeds' sessions. If there's a will, there's a way.

Obviously, we don't know jack about what they get up to but if we have another Palace scenario, I may be inclined to think the cardio training isn't up to standard in really pushing the players.

maximus419 · Aug 7, 2021

I highly doubt any player really loses much fitness at all. They are always planning training sessions to mimic match days. All the match does is actually show where you are at against your rivals. Remember the project restart after covid, utd were the fittest team at the start by miles.

If you have better players it doesnt really matter too much if you are a little short on fitness, the quality should see you through. Whilst they might not be up to full speed, there really isn't any excuse for not being able to compete and beat anyone.

City and Leicester compete today in charity shield, both will have had a similar situation to utd, in terms of players not being back long for pre season. I think you'll see that they are very much up to speed and ready to go next weekend. Why should utd be any different?

wolvored · Aug 7, 2021

Leftback99 said:
They played all last summer in the PL, had 3 weeks off and came back looking like they couldn't kick a ball or run 100 metres.

This. Spot on.

Ludens the Red · Aug 7, 2021

TheReligion said:
There's an argument raging on RE Sancho about him not being back earlier and missing a few games (he won't, he'll get minutes v Leeds).

What I'm wondering though is why some posters are getting worked up about pre-season and seem to think the players that haven't had a full one at United will suddenly be unable to play football again or be majorly unfit.

The majority of the late arrivals have just played a huge covid enhanced season and straight through to major international tournaments (EC and Copa). During these tournaments they are pretty much 'on season' training, diet and match intensity. They have had a pre season, a much more intensive one than they would have had they stayed at the club!

The notion that players like Sancho, Varane, Cavani, Pogba will be unable to play for several games baffles me. Yes they haven't played with their colleagues but so what? It's not a massive issue. They'll be fit and ready to go. If anything the rest will have done then good physically and mentally.

Probably because of the way we’ve started the last two seasons which both had completely different pre seasons. I personally think it’s just down to the fact we just aren’t a very well prepared side in the off season and it takes us a while to kick into gear. Whether we have a long or short or season, whether the players are too tired or not fit enough. We just don’t seem to be able to condition ourselves physically and mentally to start the season well.
If our players repeatedly look under prepared for new seasons then again you have to ask questions of the coaching staff.

tenpoless · Aug 7, 2021

TheReligion said:
There's an argument raging on RE Sancho about him not being back earlier and missing a few games (he won't, he'll get minutes v Leeds).

So Jan is here all along. No wonder why he seemed to do updates during RedCafe peak time.

Dr. StrangeHate · Aug 7, 2021

Leftback99 said:
They played all last summer in the PL, had 3 weeks off and came back looking like they couldn't kick a ball or run 100 metres.

This year all teams are in the same boat though.

Glorio · Aug 7, 2021

Champ said:
Again, every team is in the same boat, what with Lot of players away for the Euro's or gold cup or whatever.
Really not an issue, we should have the depth to win against a Leeds side who have only had their full team available for one pre season game.

A Leeds fan on here mentioned they had most of their squad for their recent pre-season games bar Phillips. I want to believe he knows what he's on about.

I think pre-season is definitely useful, however, if we gave Sancho a holiday and he took it, good on him. Why should he have to cut it short?

flappyjay · Aug 7, 2021

Dr. StrangeHate said:
This year all teams are in the same boat though.

Leeds only had Phillips missing.

flappyjay · Aug 7, 2021

maximus419 said:
If you have better players it doesnt really matter too much if you are a little short on fitness, the quality should see you through. Whilst they might not be up to full speed, there really isn't any excuse for not being able to compete and beat

Ourselves and city have very poor starts to the season last year as we were playing catch up in terms of fitness. Quality didn't see us through. Its only when we reached peak fitness that we started doing well.

Ixion · Aug 7, 2021

It takes time to settle in anywhere and to get match sharpness. I think people are concerned we have a bad start and City or whoever leave us in their dust immediately.

CM · Aug 7, 2021

Last season we didn't get going until 5 or 6 weeks into the season due to players being unfit/undercooked so it's a valid concern.

I don't think it'll be quite as bad this season as a few of our players have already had more preparation than last year but it's still not ideal. Fred and the English players who made the Euros final will only get one match before the season kicks off and Varane, Sancho and Cavani probably won't play any.

Not really the sort of preparation you want when your first match is Leeds who essentially pride themselves on their fitness levels.

sglowrider · Aug 7, 2021

Champ said:
Again, every team is in the same boat, what with Lot of players away for the Euro's or gold cup or whatever.
Really not an issue, we should have the depth to win against a Leeds side who have only had their full team available for one pre season game.

Every team are in the same boat? WTF!

We only got our 1st teams back this week. Varane has even to Carrington to train yet.

Meanwhile, teams like Arsenal has been able to basically start their potential 1st teams almost from the very start of pre-season matches. I bet Leeds only lost like 2-3 players to the Euros or Copa max.

I don't know why this idea is so difficult for many to grasp.

M Bison · Aug 7, 2021

WR10 said:
Thanks Geoff

come again

Champ · Aug 7, 2021

sglowrider said:
Every team are in the same boat? WTF!

We only got our 1st teams back this week. Varane has even to Carrington to train yet.

Meanwhile, teams like Arsenal has been able to basically start their potential 1st teams almost from the very start of pre-season matches. I bet Leeds only lost like 2-3 players to the Euros or Copa max.

I don't know why this idea is so difficult for many to grasp.

Leeds have had one game to play all their first team players....not sure why that's so difficult to grasp....

Champ · Aug 7, 2021

Glorio said:
A Leeds fan on here mentioned they had most of their squad for their recent pre-season games bar Phillips. I want to believe he knows what he's on about.

I think pre-season is definitely useful, however, if we gave Sancho a holiday and he took it, good on him. Why should he have to cut it short?

The last game they played yes, the game before that they were missing 6/7, so again, they have had one game as a full squad.

Dr Foo · Aug 7, 2021

criticalanalysis said:
For the players who have had 2-3 weeks of training and didn't let themselves go during the off season, then imo 'getting match fit' really shouldn't be an issue even without having actual games.

With the modern sport science knowledge and fitness trainers etc we have today, how are we not able to get players up to speed?

When some say 'fit' and 'match fit', of course there is a difference but surely, most of the latter can replicated if you really wanted to. I'd imagine it's just hardcore dedicated training and getting used to the amount of high intensity runs, intense cardio, sharpness on the ball and tactical flexibility.

I can't imagine, if a professional athlete really wanted to 'push' themself by doing lots of sprint work and building that stamina up, along with lots of ball work as a team can't achieve 90% of 'match fitness' on the training field.

Think Leeds' sessions. If there's a will, there's a way.

Obviously, we don't know jack about what they get up to but if we have another Palace scenario, I may be inclined to think the cardio training isn't up to standard in really pushing the players.

Lingard is an example, though in a different scenario. During his West ham stint - he was able to come in immediately and play every game up to speed despite his lack of game time at United, due to his peak conditioning. Coaches were already saying he came back to pre season last year physically well

The bizarre panic about players not being ready for the new season

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