Astroturf pitches

Personally don't see the problem with them, it's not as if our players are alien to them either, I'm sure there'll be at least one astro turf pitch at Carrington.

I don't like it either but professional footballers should be able to adapt. As a youth we played on concrete, grass, gravel, compacted mud, astroturf and the other lower end of astroturf which is just like green carpet, never had a problem playing football as long as it was fairly level.

We'll see how other teams fare there.

The pitch played a part in that 2nd goal. The attacker knew he could hit it into the ground and it would pass de gea.

May not have got the same bounce on grass.

No problem when it's nicely laid, this one seemed to have a mental bounce compared to others we've played on.

Pogue Mahone said:

I’ll get this out of the way early doors, for the cheap seats:

MANCHESTER UNITED WERE FAIRLY BEATEN TONIGHT. WE WERE SHITE AND DESERVED NOTHING FROM THAT GAME.

*and breath*

So anyway. Why the feck are astroturf pitches allowed in the Champions League? It’s ridiculous. Players sliding all over the place. The ball forever skidding or kicking up high. It’s like having the snooker world championships on snooker tables that aren’t level. I’m sure the CL has certain entry criteria. One of them should be access to a proper fecking football pitch.

Discuss.

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It shouldn't be allowed at the top level. They should have to play their CL games at another stadium.

What's even more weird for me is that we were playing hoofball on an astro-turf pitch. This is a surface designed for quick passes.

OP needs to fix the thread spelling FFS. It is atrocious.
"Arsethrowturf pitches"

MyOnlySolskjaer said:

What's even more weird for me is that we were playing hoofball on an astro-turf pitch. This is a surface designed for quick passes.

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Is it? I thought the ball doesn’t get any proper zip on these pitches, which is why they watered it before the game?

I made that point in the match day thread yesterday and had people assuring me it was fine. I counted 4 slips from our players 15 minutes into the game, all of which were unforced. It doesn't explain away the result, but these pitches should never be allowed in the CL.

DWelbz19 said:

Is it? I thought the ball doesn’t get any proper zip on these pitches, which is why they watered it before the game?

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Yeah, this is no expert opinion but I've played a lot on astro-turf and the ball definitely rolls quicker on an astroturf pitch, playing long balls on astro-turf is especially strange because the bounces are a lot higher and more unpredictable.

The stadium is called Wankdorf.

The feck did you expect.

DWelbz19 said:

Is it? I thought the ball doesn’t get any proper zip on these pitches, which is why they watered it before the game?

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From experience.

The need to be wet, to have any zip to play like that. Even when watered before and at half time, they can dry out very quickly, when they get to that not wet, not quite dry stage the surface gets kind of sticky and hard to play on and ths ball doesn't move quickly at all.

When dry the ball doesn't move anyway naturally or predictable. Bounces will just randomly sit up, the ball spins and bobbles all over the place even simple passes just played along the ground. Dry, they are horrible to play on, worse than a muddy swamp.

The reason we lost.

You can't slide tackle on astro turf. It'll rip your skin apart.

I had massive skin tear on my thigh 2 years ago.

Massive disadvantage for defenders.

It’s hardly astroturf. My Sunday league team have played 6 pre season friendlies and we’ve trained every Friday night for the last 2 years on a mega modern local non league 4G pitch. As long as you’re in moulded studs, not trainers, the difference is minimal. Even at that level.

It's ridiculous, it's the champions league, the minimum you should expect is an actual fecking football pitch made of grass.

I've played on both top class AstroTurf pitches and a Premier League ground pitch and a lot below this.

Honestly it shouldn't be possible to use this an excuse. You can still stroke passes around as you want to, you can still flick a pass through like Fernandes did.

BUT, it does affect your instinct if you are not used to playing on it week in week out. Lingard may have misjudged the back pass because of a different surface. I still don't think this is an excuse, but it might have slightly changed his instinct.

Similar Wan Bisaka might have just let the ball slip out of his control which then led to the red.

Back to the point though, these players shouldn't be using this as an excuse. This isn't playing in a mud bath or concrete. These 3G AstroTurf pitches are beautiful to play on. The surface is nearly perfect. Rarely you get rubber pieces accumulating and that can causes slips, which with the wrong ankle support and footwear is prone to injury, but that's rare.

What we suffered with today was not significantly different to most games this season. Lethargic slow tempo football. The ball not being controlled in midfield.

This was only made worse with the subs which destroyed our already limited midfield.

VdB has barely played and was doing fine, but you can't expect him to be a baller with no game time. Fred is off form, but we have no other options in midfield due to woeful recruitment.

Matic is finished.

I feel like every thread will ultimately point to that midfield or to Ole. The answer is now becoming both. Ole had the resources to change the team. Sell Lingard, sell a GK, release Mata, etc. Then spend funds on the midfield we need.

I've given Ole allowances because its always come back to the point I wouldn't expect another manager to do better.

Well now I'm at the point where I would expect another manager to do better in that Europa League final and in the decisions up to that point. Part of the reason we suffered in that game was due to a lack of rotation and a lack of freshness in the squad. Bruno and Rashford in particular were heavily over played.

We are suffering now with VdB for similar reasons. Rotating not only keeps your best platers fresh, but also makes your secondary players better.

It was actually rare to see Bruno subbed today, but ironically I don't think today was the right day to sub him. We needed some creative magic with a man down and no other sub is capable of replacing what Bruno can do.

If you want to give Bruno a rest don't start him today! Its a perfect opportunity to rest him and bring him on as a sub if need be.

Why do they actually have an astroturf pitch? Weather issues? Can't maintain grass? Looks greener?

Professional players, should be able to play at a high rate once its flat, qpr never won the league playing on one,

It's easier to play on a good astro pitch when you're used to grass. The difficulty comes the other way around.

Our own pitch is an astro hybrid anyway, so it should be no excuse.

11101 said:

It's easier to play on a good astro pitch when you're used to grass. The difficulty comes the other way around.

Our own pitch is an astro hybrid anyway, so it should be no excuse.

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The ball definitely bounces differently on 4g pitches. It holds up a lot more too than grass, so weight of pass is a bit different.

First off, they aren't "astro turf". Those fields died a proper death in the 90's. These are fake grass pitches and they are completely fine to play on. The ball rolls smooth and doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. i've been playing on a fake grass pitch for years. I know you put out a disclaimer to say you aren't blaming the pitch, but these are completely fine to play on...

arnie_ni said:

The pitch played a part in that 2nd goal. The attacker knew he could hit it into the ground and it would pass de gea.

May not have got the same bounce on grass.

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Do you seriously think that the player stopped and though "if I hit this into the ground it will pop up"? Give your head a massive shake

SadlerMUFC said:

Do you seriously think that the player stopped and though "if I hit this into the ground it will pop up"? Give your head a massive shake

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You don't think it happens? Ozil used to do it plenty. Of course I didn't watch a replay but he looked like he deliberately hit it into the ground. Fairly certain the commentator (keown?) Mentioned it.

Even if he didn't deliberately do it, it still happened.

meamth said:

You can't slide tackle on astro turf. It'll rip your skin apart.

I had massive skin tear on my thigh 2 years ago.

Massive disadvantage for defenders.

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This might surprise you but a lot of the pro players shave their legs. They do this because they get daily massages and it helps reduce discomfort. Generally skin tear on astro turf happens because leg hair catches. Its one reason why cyclists shave their legs, lessens the damage done if the crash and slide on tarmac.
Also watering the pitches helps reduce grazing when sliding on astro pitches, however another major reason for watering the pitches is to calm the bounce down a bit.
If you have a look you will see that players who's team play on Astro turf in pro leagues dont have graze marks all over their legs. Shaving and watering.

I used to love playing on them!
Hard on the calves and no sliding tackles though!

arnie_ni said:

You don't think it happens? Ozil used to do it plenty. Of course I didn't watch a replay but he looked like he deliberately hit it into the ground. Fairly certain the commentator (keown?) Mentioned it.

Even if he didn't deliberately do it, it still happened.

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No...no I do not. I think he just mishit it and got a fortunate bounce. if you really think that then you obviously have never played

SadlerMUFC said:

No...no I do not. I think he just mishit it and got a fortunate bounce. if you really think that then you obviously have never played

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Ah that old chestnut.

An AstroTurf pitch actually ended whatever career I had 2 years ago when I shredded my knee after my foot just "caught".

So if you were taking a shot say from distance you'd never think I could cause the keeper so problems here if I can get it to bounce just in front of him? He might spill it for an incoming attacker?

Or were you just a hit and hope merchant? Other people actually put thought into what they do on the pitch.

Again, may not have been the case this time, but the fact your so vehemently against its possibility is perplexing to say the least.

Why are these pitches allowed in Champons league.??

I used to prefer Astroturf to grass pitches when I played shitty Sunday league.

What’s the reason for teams using it anyway? I only know of them and a Scottish side using it

I don't understand it, could be wrong but aren't there requirements for lower leagues to get certain pitch types/ qualities before they can even move up leagues in the FA? Not sure how they get away with it..

I thought it was weird seeing people sliding and falling over because real grass is much slippier. I've never seen anyone fall over so much on astroturf, I don't know what happened there. However, it's a different game playing on astroturf and I agree, it doesn't belong in CL. Laughable that an elite team in Bern has astroturf.

Lay said:

I used to prefer Astroturf to grass pitches when I played shitty Sunday league.

What’s the reason for teams using it anyway? I only know of them and a Scottish side using it

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It's cheaper in countries where the climate isn't as good as in other European countries (I include England in that).

Pogue Mahone said:

They’re very different to a grass pitch to play on. Even the fancy ones.

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Why though? I mean, with the technology we have available nowadays, you'd think that we could make a perfect synthetic copy of fecking grass.

Then again, anyone who ever ate vegan cheese knows technology has limits.

I find the "professional players should be able to adapt" argument very lazy. Of course they should. And they mostly did - we were poor, but it's not like they had collectively forgotten how to hit a ball. However, I do think it gives a true advantage to the team that is playing on it on a regular basis rather than the one that is used to natural grass and has trained on it for a limited time. It was quite obvious that the trajectories of a lot of the balls took players by surprise, and without absolving Jesse (cos it was a ridiculous back pass), I feel it played a role in the second goal - by the end of the game, the pitch would have been quite dry and I'm not sure it would have appeared so underhit on a normal pitch. I don't quite understand how it can be ignored that the pitch has an impact.

Whether or not it should be a criteria to play in the Champions League, that's another question I don't really have an opinion on, but I think it's worth raising.

I think the AstroTurf question is a fair one. I am not for a minute suggesting that AstroTurf is why we couldn't manage to win last night. It does make an obvious difference though. Especially for the team that is used to playing on that surface. With under soil heating I am not sure why AstroTurf is needed at the highest level. People are playing on grass in Russia and Scandanvia, why does a Swiss team need an AstroTurf pitch?

Rooney in Paris said:

I find the "professional players should be able to adapt" argument very lazy. Of course they should. And they mostly did - we were poor, but it's not like they had collectively forgotten how to hit a ball. However, I do think it gives a true advantage to the team that is playing on it on a regular basis rather than the one that is used to natural grass and has trained on it for a limited time. It was quite obvious that the trajectories of a lot of the balls took players by surprise, and without absolving Jesse (cos it was a ridiculous back pass), I feel it played a role in the second goal - by the end of the game, the pitch would have been quite dry and I'm not sure it would have appeared so underhit on a normal pitch. I don't quite understand how it can be ignored that the pitch has an impact.

Whether or not it should be a criteria to play in the Champions League, that's another question I don't really have an opinion on, but I think it's worth raising.

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Now you said it, it could well be the reason he was so confident and relaxed when hitting the pass. Interesting.

#07 said:

I think the AstroTurf question is a fair one. I am not for a minute suggesting that AstroTurf is why we couldn't manage to win last night. It does make an obvious difference though. Especially for the team that is used to playing on that surface. With under soil heating I am not sure why AstroTurf is needed at the highest level. People are playing on grass in Russia and Scandanvia, why does a Swiss team need an AstroTurf pitch?

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Cheaper to maintain. Just put those rubber stuff, and wet it a bit. You're good to go.

Its probably because the conditions in some places would likely make a natural pitch even worse. Especially as some clubs don't have millions to throw around on making sure their pitch resembles a bowling green...and there's not much scope for rescheduling games in Europe if a pitch is frozen or waterlogged.

I also don't think they're a big problem. I remember a big fuss being made years ago by the media when we played some Russian side in the CL on a similar pitch, because it was around the same time England had to do similar and lost. Ferguson just came out and said it wasn't an issue at all. Scholes came out and said he actually preferred playing on them. We won the game and the only noticeable difference to any other game was that Scholes did indeed prefer playing on the artificial pitch because it meant he could spray passes around easier as the pitch would hold the ball up.

Its the same as when people moan about the quality of a lower league pitch...except if anything worse as there's not actually anything wrong with an artificial pitch and pretty much every professional football club in England has the ability to train on one if they want to in order to prepare. If UEFA allow them there is nothing to moan about really.