Would you take Conte at United?

diarm · Oct 25, 2021

the_cliff said:
You definitely know nothing about Conte and you should seriously do some research before you post such utter nonsense. For your first point, we do that right now and it's working out well isn't it. We've just lost 5-0 at home to our biggest rivals and you still don't see the problem with having 5 lazy attackers on the pitch.

For your second point which is by far the dumbest. He took over Juve when they were 7th (and hadn't won the league 9 years prior) won the league the next season and for 2 more seasons after that, he left, Juve went on to win the next 6 league titles. I thought he leaves teams in bad shape.

Fast forward to last season, Juves dominance was ended by guess who ?. Oh yh Antonio Conte, who won Inter Milan their first league title in 10 years. He also won the league scoring the second most goals in the top 5 leagues (Only Bayern scored more), scoring 89 league goals (We, under Ole, managed 73). Inter Milan were forced to sell their two best players because of financial difficulty (Hakimi and Lukaku) and so Conte left. Despite this, Inter Milan are still 3rd and firmly in the race for top 4.

Or maybe you're talking about when he was at Chelsea. When he equalled the record for most consecutive wins in the premier league (13). Or when he won a record 3 premier league manager of the months in a row. Or when he won a record 30 premier league games out of 38, with an ageing squad consisting of Fabregas, Terry, David Luiz, Cahill, Pedro, Diego Costa and Willian. He also scored 85 league goals that season, more than any of our managers post Fergie. The following season (which was probably the worst of his managerial career). Terry and Costa left. His squad was ageing and he had trouble with Abramovic because he wanted Lukaku and he ended up with Morata, that's also the same season we ended up with Lukaku. In a season where injuries to key players (Hazard, Rudiger, Alonso and Moses were all out for lengthy spells) he still beat us with Mourinho and won the FA cup. It also didn't help that the signing he didn't want (Morata) couldn't hit a barn door and he finished 5th. So in his worst season he outperformed any Ole season considerably.

Also about Chelsea being left worse off he brought probably their 2 most important players in the UCL win last season (Kante and Rudiger). Sarri the following season won the Europa league and that's when they were hit with a transfer ban and couldn't buy any players, they also sold Hazard and Courtois before Lampard (an inept manager as proven by Tuchel) came in, oh and Tuchel won a pretty big trophy last season.

I pray Conte comes in and leaves us worse off. We might win the champions league. If you consider 80 odd league goals scored defensive, We've been playing ultra defensive football with Ole.

It's actually mad the disrespect Conte gets in here, it's like someone saying I don't want Fergie cos of what happened to us when he retired.

TL;DR

I can only imagine I've offended you with the hair glue comment. Sincere apologies.

sun_tzu · Oct 25, 2021

DutchCruijff said:
Why? Have you seen our defence this season? 3 ATB is precisely what we need right now. Would support Pogba's lack of defensive capabilities in the middle too. As well as the fact that AWB offers nothing going forward.

In a 352, the two CFs suits both Ronaldo AND Greenwood.

There's nothing about 343/352 that doesn't suit us except from needing a RWB - though it would be ideally suited for Dalot.

..........................de gea.....................
.....lindeloff........varane.......Maguire
Dalot......mctominy.......pogba........shaw

Would presumably be the defence/ midfield (arguably telles for Shaw or awb for lindeloff)

Then what... conte demands a lot of work from his attackers and I'm really not sure Bruno and ronaldo would get in the team together... presumably sancho rashfird and ronaldo

I really don't think that suits us... Maguire is slow for a left cb, still lacks a good central midfielder... Shaw is a better fullback than wing back... dalot is dalot

Yeah I think conte would want as a minimum a new cb a new midfielder (probably 2) and a new rwb ...probably a couple of hundred million? And 4 players to integrate into the team

As I say I think in 2023/2024 he would mount a serious challenge then probably demand another bunch of players and storm off

As for conte playing ronaldo and Greenwood I simply can't see that... he demands a lot of pressing from forwards... ronaldo won't (or can't anymore) and I don't think I have seen many players worse at pressing than Greenwood... he seems to not understand how to do it

No way conte has those two together.... especially with Bruno behind

DutchCruijff · Oct 25, 2021

diarm said:
Ah yes Conte.

Let's leave 5 out of Ronaldo, Cavani, Rashford, Greenwood, Bruno, Sancho and Lingard on the bench so we can play more of our shit defenders and defensive midfielders at the same time.

Then when that doesn't work, let's give him another 300m to spend on players that only make sense in his system, so when he fecks off 6 months later after someone pisses in his hair glue or whatever, we'll have a load more overpaid players on fresh contracts for the next name off the block to come in and weed through.

4. In a 352/343, we'd be leaving out 4 of them. One of them is Cavani, due to leave in a handful of months. The other is Lingard, another due to leave for free in a handful of months.

The only issue is for Sancho and Rashford.

There's also absolutely no one Conte would purchase that United don't already need - a RB/RWB and a CDM. We need those REGARDLESS of Conte.

We most definitely have the personnel for a 352/343. I'd go as far as saying that it is the optimal formation for us now.

Nytram Shakes · Oct 25, 2021

Conte is just a Mourinho style manager, come in demand a huge budget, generally by older players on crazy contracts, then the following summer when he wants to do it all again and the club can’t afford it fall out with everyone and leave with the club left in a mess.

DutchCruijff · Oct 25, 2021

sun_tzu said:
..........................de gea.....................
.....lindeloff........varane.......Maguire
Dalot......mctominy.......pogba........shaw

Would presumably be the defence/ midfield (arguably telles for Shaw or awb for lindeloff)

Then what... conte demands a lot of work from his attackers and I'm really not sure Bruno and ronaldo would get in the team together... presumably sancho rashfird and ronaldo

I really don't think that suits us... Maguire is slow for a left cb, still lacks a good central midfielder... Shaw is a better fullback than wing back... dalot is dalot

Yeah I think conte would want as a minimum a new cb a new midfielder (probably 2) and a new rwb ...probably a couple of hundred million? And 4 players to integrate into the team

As I say I think in 2023/2024 he would mount a serious challenge then probably demand another bunch of players and storm off

Wrong personnel here. And there's a fundamental misunderstanding of 352/343 and Conte here.

AWB for Lindelof - AWB is very well suited for RCB.

Dalot is perfect for RWB - of course, we'd need someone capable of playing RB/RWB (Trippier) in January regardless.

As for Maguire doesn't need to be speedy at LCB, there's where the LWB - Shaw - has to come back to cover. Conte had Cahill - 16/17 - as LCB for Chelsea and Bastoni - 20/21 - as LCB for Inter. These are not quick players.

McTominay won't start, it will be Matic.

Let's get some things straight, we need a RB and a CDM regardless of Conte. If we get Conte, we'd be signing players that we need anyway.

Mcking · Oct 25, 2021

Chelsea have Mount, Lukaku, Werner, Ziyech, Havertz, Hudson-Odoi, and Barkley. They play a back five, are UCL holders and are top of the league. But what happens to Sancho and Greenwood they ask? As if we should be bothered about that. No one will be thinking of Sancho's minutes when we are lifting the Premier League title. If Conte could make it work, everything could crash and burn a few months later, and we'd still be defending champions with a good squad.

Drizzle · Oct 25, 2021

DutchCruijff said:
AWB is very well suited for RCB.

Apart from the fact he has no heading ability and his positioning and defensive IQ is poor.

diarm · Oct 25, 2021

DutchCruijff said:
4. In a 352/343, we'd be leaving out 4 of them. One of them is Cavani, due to leave in a handful of months. The other is Lingard, another due to leave for free in a handful of months.

The only issue is for Sancho and Rashford.

There's also absolutely no one Conte would purchase that United don't already need - a RB/RWB and a CDM. We need those REGARDLESS of Conte.

We most definitely have the personnel for a 352/343. I'd go as far as saying that it is the optimal formation for us now.

I'm less worried about leaving out attackers and more worried about playing more defenders who are bad footballers.

Wan-Bissaka, Maguire, Lindelof, Bailly, De Gea, Fred and McTominay are technically limited players. They are awful under pressure and teams know if they press those players in our half of the pitch, they will shit the bed and give up opportunities.

Playing more of those players is not the answer to our current woes. Some of you think Conte will come in and transform those players into calm, assured and technically able footballers.

I don't.

El Zoido · Oct 25, 2021

bond19821982 said:
That was exactly my point though. No manager gets 100% of the signings correct. If we have a 50-60% hit rate then we can easily say they have been good.

Ole has been horrible in the market too. We spent a whopping 200m on defence and it's still not fixed.

I think a big part of that is that Ole and the coaching staff don’t know how to set up a defence. Even Maguire has shown he can be a lot better. I think another manager could make this team far more defensively sound without having to bring in any new players.

KikiDaKats · Oct 25, 2021

I'd take Conte and think he will do well with this set of players. If they can accept that football is tactical and not played around their whims or freedom to express themselves.
We have players that need a drastic change of how they want to play, to have a chance of giving whats best for the team. I won't throw another managers name in comparison to but I accept he has done a brilliant job at clubs, he is managed. Even left them better and well drilled squads. He managed to slim Lukaku up, forget trophies that in itself is an achievement.

Dan_F · Oct 25, 2021

Real Name said:
So what's the solution then in your opinion?

Like I said in the first post, have some kind of long term vision for the playing style and plan how to get there. Like all successful businesses do. Replace Woodward with someone who has an ounce of football knowledge, not Richard Arnold, they should be fully accepting of what is trying to be achieved.

For example, I think Poch fits our players/club far more than Conte does. I don’t think him not having won a trophy with Spurs is relevant, given the difference in players he will be working with and transfer budget he would have.

justsomebloke · Oct 25, 2021

Dan_F said:
Like I said in the first post, have some kind of long term vision for the playing style and plan how to get there. Like all successful businesses do. Replace Woodward with someone who has an ounce of football knowledge, not Richard Arnold, they should be fully accepting of what is trying to be achieved.

For example, I think Poch fits our players/club far more than Conte does. I don’t think him not having won a trophy with Spurs is relevant, given the difference in players he will be working with and transfer budget he would have.

How would he be available though? Also; he's had an even bigger budget at PSG. And still failed to win the league.

Tom Van Persie · Oct 25, 2021

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EtH · Oct 25, 2021

mancan92 said:
Talk about an absolutely pedantic point. What is your point? Would you be ok winning the league but going out of the group stages of the CL? Cause I would happily have that.

Well there’s only the CL and FA Cup to play for this season. So I suppose the question then is whether or not it is worth sacrificing the potential progression of our football and a few of our youngest and brightest talents to hope Conte can close the gap on Klopp, Pep and Tuchel next season with his tumescent brand of football.

I don’t see it happening. And it wouldn’t be worth it for me even if he did manage it before inevitably falling out with the board.

RedCheekz · Oct 25, 2021

He won the title with Chelsea 1st season. He broked juventus strangehold and won the serie A second season with inter.
Sure there was upsets and falling outs along the way but he was successful and that what’s we need right now, no waiting around. In a few years time we can look at a different manager if things turn sour with him.
Ronaldo going waste his final years if we don’t act quick.
Get conte in and give him some cash in January for a centre mid or 2.
Even if he doesn’t get the cash it’s without doubt he will produce better results then Ole with this squad.
We need move quick!

BluesJr · Oct 25, 2021

I’ve wanted Ole out for ages but it absolutely cannot be for this guy. This would be so typical of us to go for Conte, for it all to blow up and then the rhetoric recycles back to “we need a Utd man.”

We NEED to go for a young progressive coach who is clearly showing great potential.

Real Name · Oct 25, 2021

Dan_F said:
Like I said in the first post, have some kind of long term vision for the playing style and plan how to get there. Like all successful businesses do. Replace Woodward with someone who has an ounce of football knowledge, not Richard Arnold, they should be fully accepting of what is trying to be achieved.

For example, I think Poch fits our players/club far more than Conte does. I don’t think him not having won a trophy with Spurs is relevant, given the difference in players he will be working with and transfer budget he would have.

Him not having won trophies should be relevant though.
I dont get it, you dismiss Conte despite winning stuff, yet wou'd take Poch who doesnt win a thing.
And why does he suits us more?
I agree about the plan but its obvious there's no plan whatsoever. In some cases plan should start with the manager who changes things according to his wishes and plans and then the club changes too. I mean if we're gonna go for someone just cause of style its a bit silly.

Offside! · Oct 25, 2021

Conte would be a great appointment for United as long as he's fully supported by the Glazers.

There are too many at United who believe their own and the clubs bullshit, I include Ole in that. It's okay for fans to believe that the crowd sucks the ball in and the mythical powers of OT can overcome any setback but once the management and players believe it you are in big trouble. The comeback against Atlanta almost guaranteed the dicking against Liverpool. Watch Ole's interview post the Atlanta match. It was ridiculous.

Every club is special in it's own way and United are no different just bigger. Start believing you belong at the top and other bullshit you are never going to succeed.

Football is played 11 v 11 on a grass pitch of regulation size and what happens on the pitch determines the results, nothing else.

Conte would bring the club and players back down to earth. Some would deal with the reality, others not and would have to go.

Conte is just what United need which, given the recent past, is probably why he won't be appointed.

Volumiza · Oct 25, 2021

In isolation, to the question 'would you take Conte over Ole?' then yes I would. No doubt about it there would be an immediate transformation on the pitch, for better or worse. My issue with him is that he would almost without question come in a destabilize pretty much all of the good stuff Ole has done. For all Ole's failings as a tactician or manager, you can see he's improved the makeup of the team / squad. There should be no doubt this is a top team being very badly managed, I'm just not sure Conte is the answer, I think it could quickly become a bit of a car crash ... Jose mkII.

FootyGirl88 · Oct 25, 2021

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Josh 76 · Oct 25, 2021

Volumiza said:
In isolation, to the question 'would you take Conte over Ole?' then yes I would. No doubt about it there would be an immediate transformation on the pitch, for better or worse. My issue with him is that he would almost without question come in a destabilize pretty much all of the good stuff Ole has done. For all Ole's failings as a tactician or manager, you can see he's improved the makeup of the team / squad. There should be no doubt this is a top team being very badly managed, I'm just not sure Conte is the answer, I think it could quickly become a bit of a car crash ... Jose mkII.

So what good work do you think Ole has done that Conte might undo ?

Dan_F · Oct 25, 2021

justsomebloke said:
How would he be available though? Also; he's had an even bigger budget at PSG. And still failed to win the league.

It was an example, based off previous debates United fans had.

Real Name said:
Him not having won trophies should be relevant though.
I dont get it, you dismiss Conte despite winning stuff, yet wou'd take Poch who doesnt win a thing.
And why does he suits us more?
I agree about the plan but its obvious there's no plan whatsoever. In some cases plan should start with the manager who changes things according to his wishes and plans and then the club changes too. I mean if we're gonna go for someone just cause of style its a bit silly.

I wouldn’t say winning stuff should be discounted, but I don’t think one title and then going off in a strop almost everywhere you’ve been is actually very impressive. Bayern have just hired Nagelsmann who hasn’t won a trophy for example, I don’t think it’s too hard to see beyond just what has been won.

EtH · Oct 25, 2021

FootyGirl88 said:
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That seems a rather direct reference to Ronaldo.

Real Name · Oct 25, 2021

Dan_F said:
It was an example, based off previous debates United fans had.

I wouldn’t say winning stuff should be discounted, but I don’t think one title and then going off in a strop almost everywhere you’ve been is actually very impressive. Bayern have just hired Nagelsmann who hasn’t won a trophy for example, I don’t think it’s too hard to see beyond just what has been won.

I get what you mean but 2 things. Bayern are a properly run club compared to us unfortunately. And winning a league title in Germany with Bayern is a given.
Of course if he'll win a CL too then we're talking.
In any case never saw whats it all about concerning Poch and why is he so lauded.

RealBarcelonaUnited · Oct 25, 2021

I’d take Conte in a heartbeat. I’d take Conte over Zidane too. The defence needed immediate fix if we still want to challenge for any cup competitions.

Volumiza · Oct 25, 2021

Josh 76 said:
So what good work do you think Ole has done that Conte might undo ?

To me it seems like we have a good squad and certainly a very good first 11, Ole has to take some credit for that. I also seem to think there is a good spirit in the squad full of (mostly) good personalities. Do we really want another manager to come in with an overtly abrasive character? Personally, not for me.

Volumiza · Oct 25, 2021

MvG said:
That seems a rather direct reference to Ronaldo.

Yes, I see that also.

Eddy_JukeZ · Oct 25, 2021

MvG said:
That seems a rather direct reference to Ronaldo.

Him and Ronaldo would fall out guaranteed.

But if it leads us to a title, I won't complain.

talking robot · Oct 25, 2021

RealBarcelonaUnited said:
I’d take Conte in a heartbeat. I’d take Conte over Zidane too. The defence needed immediate fix if we still want to challenge for any cup competitions.

I'd take him over Ole that's for sure. If he were to come, just a short term contract, maybe a year and a half, and two transfer windows, this winter and next summer, targeting a DM + RB. For all the turmoil and chaos, we are only two players away from a squad that can challenge imo (assuming we have a halfway decent coach, and I count Conte in this category).

talking robot · Oct 25, 2021

Volumiza said:
Yes, I see that also.

Could also be a reference to Pogba. Clearly there is pressure to play him, even when that affects the balance in the team, because they board want to sign him on a 400k a week contract.

EtH · Oct 25, 2021

Eddy_JukeZ said:
Him and Ronaldo would fall out guaranteed.

But if it leads us to a title, I won't complain.

Oh there will be plenty of complaining alright but nowt to do with titles.

kthanksbye · Oct 25, 2021

I don't understand the fixation on formation, we could play the outdated 442, but if we play properly we'll look a lot better than a "modern" 433 under this set of coaching staff.

Conte's teams are defensively solid, they score goals, they control games with and without the ball.

I'm worried that these players might break or throw up a fuss under a more demanding manager, these players will not only have to work much harder in games but work even harder in training as they'll have so much to learn. We do very few things right at the moment. Conte will have to start from scratch with this bunch, not sure a lot of them are cut out for it, or have lost that edge being mediocre and lazy for the past 2-3 seasons.

Rocksy · Oct 25, 2021

MvG said:
That seems a rather direct reference to Ronaldo.

If he's against the Ronaldo signing then that would be a positive for United. He was totally unnecessary and just another example of OGS hoarding players. United with a front 3 of Sancho/Greenwood / Cavani / Rashford/Martial and a properly coached system would have looked a lot better than they do now. Though you could also have let Martial go.

Eddy_JukeZ said:
Him and Ronaldo would fall out guaranteed.

But if it leads us to a title, I won't complain.

United should have gone nowhere near Ronaldo. If Conte knows that then it's a positive. Of course OGS likes Ronaldo because he's now the type of player who can cover up mismanagement. But the very top coaches don't need bailing out all the time.

izec · Oct 25, 2021

Nah, Conte is too much of a troublemaker. Another extreme to Ole. The issue is our players and structure dont work for him and wont be changed quickly enough to accommodate him. We need to find a middle ground now if we want to move forward

AndrewMac · Oct 25, 2021

I am not a fan of the way Conte's teams play. It's a very dour, Mourinho style of football.

However, he is a winner. I'm sure i've said this sentence before we hired Mourinho though.

Dan_F · Oct 25, 2021

Real Name said:
I get what you mean but 2 things. Bayern are a properly run club compared to us unfortunately. And winning a league title in Germany with Bayern is a given.
Of course if he'll win a CL too then we're talking.
In any case never saw whats it all about concerning Poch and why is he so lauded.

That’s the whole point of my posts?

IrishRedDevil · Oct 25, 2021

FootyGirl88 said:
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He's already calling the shots. That could scare the board. Then again, maybe someone coming in and calling the shots and changing the plan is exactly what we need.

YeahYeah · Oct 25, 2021

Yes. Hes the best one available. Its a no brainer.
Yet our board will think he might be too much of a loose cannon, just hate our stupid culture.

If this were Abramovich, he would have fired Ole and hired Conte in the same day in a matter of hours...and he would have done it 2 years ago.
That might have been the best time but the other best time is right now!!!!

bosnian_red · Oct 25, 2021

FootyGirl88 said:
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No surprise there. Conte wants a club who is committed to trying to succeed. Nothing complicated. He walks out when he feels the club don't care.

Old Ma Crow · Oct 25, 2021

Conte vs the egos…

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Would you take Conte at United?

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