How good is Kevin De Bruyne?

hasanejaz88 · Feb 6, 2024

DJ Jeff said:
Makes me wonder would any Bayern player apart from Neuer. Lahm maybe, though I think he was past his best when Pep got him. Lewandowski maybe. Actually, if you say KDB doesn't get in to keep the Barca trio together in midfield, no other City player is getting in.

Jerome Boateng is criminally underrated, people just remember that one moment against Messi but forget he had numerous other battles with Messi where he came out on top.

He was a top class defender at his peak. He would go with Puyol as the two CBs. Lahm or Alaba would definitely make it as well. You can have Ribery on the left as well, ironically Lewandowski wasn't at the level he eventually became when he played under Pep.

Neuer
Alves Puyol Boateng Alaba
Busquets Xavier Iniesta
Messi Eto'o Villa

De Bruyne would not get in simply because of how good those three in midfield. No one would get in there in this era.

DJ Jeff · Feb 6, 2024

hasanejaz88 said:
Jerome Boateng is criminally underrated, people just remember that one moment against Messi but forget he had numerous other battles with Messi where he came out on top.

He was a top class defender at his peak. He would go with Puyol as the two CBs. Lahm or Alaba would definitely make it as well. You can have Ribery on the left as well, ironically Lewandowski wasn't at the level he eventually became when he played under Pep.

I wouldn't have Boateng, Pique would edge it ahead of him. Alaba for sure. I don't think you could have Ribery in ahead of 08-09 Henry or some of the seasons Bernardo has had. Wasn't Ribery actually pretty near the end too under Guardiola?

hasanejaz88 · Feb 6, 2024

DJ Jeff said:
I wouldn't have Boateng, Pique would edge it ahead of him. Alaba for sure. I don't think you could have Ribery in ahead of 08-09 Henry or some of the seasons Bernardo has had. Wasn't Ribery actually pretty near the end too under Guardiola?

Henry only had one good season though so wouldn't consider him.

Yea Bernardo would be a good player to have but I don't think he's played on the left often, couldn't think of other wingers on the left so went with Ribery.

Oh wait, David fecking Villa :lol:

he's going on the left!

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 6, 2024

FrankDrebin said:
Would he make it in Pep's best 11 he's managed ?

No but that’s purely because you aren’t splitting up the Barca trio. But if you don’t care about the lineup then he’s clearly in the top 3 with Xaviesta.

RG77 · Feb 6, 2024

He is fantastic but doesn’t make it into the Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets and Kroos/Modric/Casemiro midfields.

tomaldinho1 · Feb 6, 2024

FrankDrebin said:
Would he make it in Pep's best 11 he's managed ?

Wouldn't get past the three Barca starters. I think he's class, he's kind of how I imagine Beckham would be if he'd transitioned into the CMs at an early age and had a bit more pace about him. Very few CMs have that ball where it's kind of a cross but it's not whipped and it's straighter, it just telegraphs into a forward with a slight curl (like the famous Beckham assist for Real). I wouldn't put him on the level of Modric or Xavi personally, he'll also - unfortunately for him - forever have the majority of his trophies with a big asterix next to them when people are discussing the best players which won't help him.

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
No but that’s purely because you aren’t splitting up the Barca trio. But if you don’t care about the lineup then he’s clearly in the top 3 with Xaviesta.

He's not getting in ahead of Busquets. Busquets is near inarguably the best DM of recent times, he's probably one of the easiest picks if you said best player for each position last 10 years. KDB would have to compete with Xaviesta.

BlueMoonOutcast · Feb 6, 2024

RG77 said:
He is fantastic but doesn’t make it into the Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets and Kroos/Modric/Casemiro midfields.

He absolutely does. To both.

Hammondo · Feb 6, 2024

hasanejaz88 said:
Jerome Boateng is criminally underrated, people just remember that one moment against Messi but forget he had numerous other battles with Messi where he came out on top.

He was a top class defender at his peak. He would go with Puyol as the two CBs. Lahm or Alaba would definitely make it as well. You can have Ribery on the left as well, ironically Lewandowski wasn't at the level he eventually became when he played under Pep.

Neuer
Alves Puyol Boateng Alaba
Busquets Xavier Iniesta
Messi Eto'o Villa

De Bruyne would not get in simply because of how good those three in midfield. No one would get in there in this era.

Surprised others are not including Puyol, best cb he's managed tbh.

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 6, 2024

tomaldinho1 said:
Wouldn't get past the three Barca starters. I think he's class, he's kind of how I imagine Beckham would be if he'd transitioned into the CMs at an early age and had a bit more pace about him. Very few CMs have that ball where it's kind of a cross but it's not whipped and it's straighter, it just telegraphs into a forward with a slight curl (like the famous Beckham assist for Real). I wouldn't put him on the level of Modric or Xavi personally, he'll also - unfortunately for him - forever have the majority of his trophies with a big asterix next to them when people are discussing the best players which won't help him.

He's not getting in ahead of Busquets. Busquets is near inarguably the best DM of recent times, he's probably one of the easiest picks if you said best player for each position last 10 years. KDB would have to compete with Xaviesta.

Im speaking in all time terms, he absolutely gets in ahead of Busquets. SB no doubt is the best DM of his generation (especially in his specific role as a single pivot), but De Bruyne is the best midfielder in PL history. When we get to “all time” level rankings I think you have to value players that affect the outcome further forward.

Its all a bit pointless though, because those 4 are probably 4 of the 10 to 15 best midfielders ever regardless of team.

Teja · Feb 6, 2024

RG77 said:
He is fantastic but doesn’t make it into the Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets and Kroos/Modric/Casemiro midfields.

I think he'd get into the RM one. The Barca one is the GOAT midfield combination, so I dunno. He probably will by moving Iniesta permanently to the left wing.

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 6, 2024

The problem for De Bruyne and his legacy is that he will always have to fight against the “City cheating” factor. People simply dont want to romanticize a team that has 115 charges pending and seemingly unlocked a way to legally cheat football. And when speaking about ranking players or all time XI’s and lists, that romantic nostalgia plays a HUGE part in people’s minds.

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 6, 2024

Teja said:
I think he'd get into the RM one. The Barca one is the GOAT midfield combination, so I dunno. He probably will by moving Iniesta permanently to the left wing.

Yeah I think he’d get in ahead of Modric barely. And I love Modric. For Barca you could basically play both him and Iniesta further forward in hybrid roles with Xavi and Busquets behind.

giorno · Feb 6, 2024

DJ Jeff said:
I wouldn't have Boateng, Pique would edge it ahead of him. Alaba for sure. I don't think you could have Ribery in ahead of 08-09 Henry or some of the seasons Bernardo has had. Wasn't Ribery actually pretty near the end too under Guardiola?

You absolutely do, and it's a no brainer too. Henry was maybe like the 7th best player on that team that season. Ribery was at his peak and should have been the Ballon D'Or 2013

Bernardo is amazing but the biggest reason to have him in the team is his pressing

Boateng is genuine dung wearing a human shape and should be erased from football and memory and more, so.

giorno · Feb 6, 2024

Teja said:
I think he'd get into the RM one. The Barca one is the GOAT midfield combination, so I dunno. He probably will by moving Iniesta permanently to the left wing.

Funny how the Madrid trio won more at club level :lol:

BlueMoonOutcast · Feb 6, 2024

Just imagine for a second, De Bruyne behind either Messi or Ronaldo in their primes... come on now he'd eclipse any other midfielder ever.

tomaldinho1 · Feb 6, 2024

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Im speaking in all time terms, he absolutely gets in ahead of Busquets. SB no doubt is the best DM of his generation (especially in his specific role as a single pivot), but De Bruyne is the best midfielder in PL history. When we get to “all time” level rankings I think you have to value players that affect the outcome further forward.

Its all a bit pointless though, because those 4 are probably 4 of the 10 to 15 best midfielders ever regardless of team.

Why on earth would you do that? We aren't kids picking the 'best' players on how many goals they scored. I don't think Haaland is a better player than Henry was because he hit a silly amount of goals last season in the PL. I have eyes.

KDB's issue is there are so many awesome players in the 8 or 10 roles. Granted he's in the conversation but I just can't see him displacing Modric or Xavi, in particular those two, if you were making a top midfield. He does get dispossessed a lot as well so no way he's getting into that Barca team.

Gio · Feb 6, 2024

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah I think he’d get in ahead of Modric barely. And I love Modric. For Barca you could basically play both him and Iniesta further forward in hybrid roles with Xavi and Busquets behind.

Aye, would need a shape change to something like this:

Suarez - Messi
Iniesta - De Bruyne
Busquets - Xavi
Alaba - Puyol - Boateng - Alves
Neuer

BenitoSTARR · Feb 6, 2024

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Yeah I think he’d get in ahead of Modric barely. And I love Modric. For Barca you could basically play both him and Iniesta further forward in hybrid roles with Xavi and Busquets behind.

He’s not better than Modric. I think both are unquestionably world class but Modric has done so much more in his career and internationally has dragged Croatia to unprecedented levels.

pocco · Feb 6, 2024

RG77 said:
He is fantastic but doesn’t make it into the Xavi/Iniesta/Busquets and Kroos/Modric/Casemiro midfields.

I think he's comfortably better than Kroos. Can do everything he does plus more, is more athletic too.

RG77 · Feb 6, 2024

All of this reeks of ‘what have they done lately’. Won’t take all this disrespect you heathens!

kaiser1 · Feb 6, 2024

Gio said:
Aye, would need a shape change to something like this:

Suarez - Messi
Iniesta - De Bruyne
Busquets - Xavi
Alaba - Puyol - Boateng - Alves
Neuer

Pep never coached Suarez. Sub him for Villa

hasanejaz88 · Feb 6, 2024

giorno said:
You absolutely do, and it's a no brainer too. Henry was maybe like the 7th best player on that team that season. Ribery was at his peak and should have been the Ballon D'Or 2013

Bernardo is amazing but the biggest reason to have him in the team is his pressing

Boateng is genuine dung wearing a human shape and should be erased from football and memory and more, so.

2 time UCL winner, MOTM performance in a World Cup final. Why the hate?

EDIT: Oohh I think know why, fair enough

Hammondo · Feb 6, 2024

Best midfielder the PL has seen.

TenonTen · Feb 6, 2024

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
The problem for De Bruyne and his legacy is that he will always have to fight against the “City cheating” factor. People simply dont want to romanticize a team that has 115 charges pending and seemingly unlocked a way to legally cheat football. And when speaking about ranking players or all time XI’s and lists, that romantic nostalgia plays a HUGE part in people’s minds.

What does that have to do with KDB as a Footballer?

There are serious allegations against Prime Barcelona too. Does it tarnish Xavi, Iniesta, Messi's legacy?

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 6, 2024

tomaldinho1 said:
Why on earth would you do that? We aren't kids picking the 'best' players on how many goals they scored.

I’m speaking about players that play different positions, not talking about numbers. It’s why people don’t say Baresi or Beckerbauer are better than Messi or Maradona. Sure they are 2 of the greatest defenders of all time but the fact is the further you move up the pitch the more valuable/important the player is to a team. I would think that’s pretty obvious.

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 6, 2024

TenonTen said:
What does that have to do with KDB as a Footballer?

There are serious allegations against Prime Barcelona too. Does it tarnish Xavi, Iniesta, Messi's legacy?

It has to do with how people remember a player/the team he played for, for better or worse. If you couldn’t tell I’m clearly saying it shouldn’t be the case, but just take a general pulse of these City teams compared to past great teams and it’s quite clear people have a more sour view of them based on the external factors. And because De Bruyne is the talisman of those teams, people will often resort to “eh he played for a cheat club with titles that shouldn’t count”.

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 6, 2024

BenitoSTARR said:
He’s not better than Modric. I think both are unquestionably world class but Modric has done so much more in his career and internationally has dragged Croatia to unprecedented levels.

I’m not sure “so much more in his career” is quite true, it’s pretty even although he certainly is ahead internationally. Either way it’s not a debate I feel strongly enough either way as Modric is also an all timer.

KeanoMagicHat · Feb 6, 2024

tomaldinho1 said:
KDB's issue is there are so many awesome players in the 8 or 10 roles. Granted he's in the conversation but I just can't see him displacing Modric or Xavi, in particular those two, if you were making a top midfield. He does get dispossessed a lot as well so no way he's getting into that Barca team.

Fabregas's last season at Arsenal was brilliant and shades of some of De Bruyne's best seasons. Then he went to Barca and found it difficult because he didn't fit in terms of extreme ball retention. I could see De Bruyne being similar or having to adapt his game.

But that Barca team was extreme in how it played, and they played a certain way that isn't necessarily the right or 100% best way to play. Fabregas was a super player in his own right and I felt that was a poor choice of team for his legacy to go in his peak years, overshadowed by Xavi/Iniesta/Messi and tika-taka obsession.

Pep is probably a better manager now than he's ever been because he's more versatile. He understands that players like Haaland and De Bruyne win games for you, when years ago he didn't really entertain the notion much. Fabregas at City would be outstanding. It's hard to disrupt that Barca team from 2009-12 because they played in such a distinct way but if you turn it the other way, how many Barca players get into City team now? I can't see Busquets being any better than Rodri and I can't see Iniesta being any better than De Bruyne in City's current system.

Valencia Shin Crosses · Feb 6, 2024

KeanoMagicHat said:
Fabregas's last season at Arsenal was brilliant and shades of some of De Bruyne's best seasons. Then he went to Barca and found it difficult because he didn't fit in terms of extreme ball retention. I could see De Bruyne being similar or having to adapt his game.

But that Barca team was extreme in how it played, and they played a certain way that isn't necessarily the right or 100% best way to play. Fabregas was a super player in his own right and I felt that was a poor choice of team for his legacy to go in his peak years, overshadowed by Xavi/Iniesta/Messi and tika-taka obsession.

Pep is probably a better manager now than he's ever been because he's more versatile. He understands that players like Haaland and De Bruyne win games for you, when years ago he didn't really entertain the notion much. Fabregas at City would be outstanding. It's hard to disrupt that Barca team from 2009-12 because they played in such a distinct way but if you turn it the other way, how many Barca players get into City team now? I can't see Busquets being any better than Rodri and I can't see Iniesta being any better than De Bruyne in City's current system.

Yeah I think people forget how much of those Barca teams were built around that midfield being able to endlessly hoard the ball and then find the greatest player of all time and let him cook. You basically can’t replicate them because even if you could get possession on that level you wouldn’t have a forward that’s able to just walk past 3 and score when it was time every match. It’s also why people started to hate watching those later Barca teams before Pep left, because 90% of the match would just be the back 7 knocking it about while having a laugh. It could be quite boring to watch for many

tomaldinho1 · Feb 6, 2024

KeanoMagicHat said:
Fabregas's last season at Arsenal was brilliant and shades of some of De Bruyne's best seasons. Then he went to Barca and found it difficult because he didn't fit in terms of extreme ball retention. I could see De Bruyne being similar or having to adapt his game.

But that Barca team was extreme in how it played, and they played a certain way that isn't necessarily the right or 100% best way to play. Fabregas was a super player in his own right and I felt that was a poor choice of team for his legacy to go in his peak years, overshadowed by Xavi/Iniesta/Messi and tika-taka obsession.

Pep is probably a better manager now than he's ever been because he's more versatile. He understands that players like Haaland and De Bruyne win games for you, when years ago he didn't really entertain the notion much. Fabregas at City would be outstanding. It's hard to disrupt that Barca team from 2009-12 because they played in such a distinct way but if you turn it the other way, how many Barca players get into City team now? I can't see Busquets being any better than Rodri and I can't see Iniesta being any better than De Bruyne in City's current system.

Busquets is better than Rodri in my mind. Although Rodri’s role isn’t quite the same given he gets forward a bit more and Pep’s moved on from tiki taka. I get the point about Iniesta though I feel he’s the ultimate player for the David Silva role so I think he would be just fine!

Fabregas point is interesting and it’s why I do question if KDB is the greatest pl midfielder just because I think you could put some of the other contenders into that City team and they’d be equally influential. I think people forget how weak the CL has become and just how much money has poured into that City team i.e. the other contenders for best players, would generally be one of a handful of elite players in their teams (just compare peak Fabregas as Arsenal’s teammates to City), KDB as great as he is, is surrounded by world class and elite players.

BenitoSTARR · Feb 6, 2024

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I’m not sure “so much more in his career” is quite true, it’s pretty even although he certainly is ahead internationally. Either way it’s not a debate I feel strongly enough either way as Modric is also an all timer.

Modric:
1x Ballon D’or
1x FIFA Men’s Best Player
1x UEFA Best Player
1x Player Of The Tournament (World Cup)
5x Champions Leagues
4x FIFA Club World Cups
3x Spanish Champion
4x UEFA Supercup
2x Spanish Cup
5x Spanish Super Cup
1x World Cup Runner Up
1x World Cup 3rd Place

De Brunye
2x PL Footballer of Year
1x Bundesliga Footballer of Year
1x Champions League
1x FIFA Club World Cup
5x PL Champions
1x UEFA Supercup
2x FA Cup
1x German Cup
5x English League Cups
1x German Super Cup
2x English Super Cup

Personally rate Modric’s achievements far higher. Being such a key part of the most successful CL side in history for me is a ridiculous feat. Taking Croatia so far is also absolutely ridiculous too.

giorno · Feb 6, 2024

pocco said:
I think he's comfortably better than Kroos. Can do everything he does plus more, is more athletic too.

No midfielder ever was comfortably better than Kroos

Remember the geese · Feb 6, 2024

Brilliant player, but some are going a bit over the top.

hasanejaz88 · Feb 6, 2024

giorno said:
No midfielder ever was comfortably better than Kroos

Schweinsteiger

Hammondo · Feb 6, 2024

hasanejaz88 said:
Schweinsteiger

He was not as good, I think Kroos was comfortably better.

BaguetteBoy · Feb 7, 2024

In the EPL he has been comfortably the best and more consistent midfielder in the past 5 years

Eddy_JukeZ · Feb 7, 2024

KeanoMagicHat said:
Fabregas's last season at Arsenal was brilliant and shades of some of De Bruyne's best seasons. Then he went to Barca and found it difficult because he didn't fit in terms of extreme ball retention. I could see De Bruyne being similar or having to adapt his game.

But that Barca team was extreme in how it played, and they played a certain way that isn't necessarily the right or 100% best way to play. Fabregas was a super player in his own right and I felt that was a poor choice of team for his legacy to go in his peak years, overshadowed by Xavi/Iniesta/Messi and tika-taka obsession.

Pep is probably a better manager now than he's ever been because he's more versatile. He understands that players like Haaland and De Bruyne win games for you, when years ago he didn't really entertain the notion much. Fabregas at City would be outstanding. It's hard to disrupt that Barca team from 2009-12 because they played in such a distinct way but if you turn it the other way, how many Barca players get into City team now? I can't see Busquets being any better than Rodri and I can't see Iniesta being any better than De Bruyne in City's current system.

Almost all of them?

If you're making a combined XI of the 2011 Barcelona team and City's 2023 team, I'm not sure a single City player gets in. I suppose the best argument would be Bernardo Silva over Pedro on the right. Perhaps Ederson over Valdes, but that 1 seems negligible.

People will say Haaland, but then you force Messi away from his false 9 role(where IMO he's at his best), so I don't see that being beneficial.

Karel Podolsky · Feb 7, 2024

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
The problem for De Bruyne and his legacy is that he will always have to fight against the “City cheating” factor. People simply dont want to romanticize a team that has 115 charges pending and seemingly unlocked a way to legally cheat football. And when speaking about ranking players or all time XI’s and lists, that romantic nostalgia plays a HUGE part in people’s minds.

So you don't think Buffon one of the best GK?

padr81 · Feb 7, 2024

giorno said:
Mmmm i'd probably go
Neuer
Pique - Dias - Alaba
Busquets
Bernardo Xavi Iniesta Graelish
Messi Lewandowski/Haaland/Eto'o not sure about this

I'm deliberately leaving out the serial domestic abuser and the one currently under trial for sexual assault

Grealish? That has to be a joke right.

Eddy_JukeZ · Feb 7, 2024

I'm very surprised so many people are leaving out Robben in a best XI of players coached by Pep.

I don't see the point in forcing Messi out right(even with freedom to drift inside) when he was at his best(IMO) in a false 9 role coached by Pep.

If I had to make a best XI of Pep-coached players

Villa - Messi - Robben

Iniesta - Xavi
Busquets

Lahm - Puyol - Pique - Alves

Neuer

You could argue Ribery over Villa, but I think Villa fits in better with Messi/Robben. Don't see any point in breaking up the best midfield in history imo(especially when Messi drops deeper to make it a quartet).

How good is Kevin De Bruyne?

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