Anyone voting? Don’t think I’ve ever cared less about exercising my constitutional rights.
Referendum in Ireland today
- Thread starter Pogue Mahone
- Start date
nope
everytime I read about it I get bored after 2 lines and still dont fully know what its for
Conor McGregor wants everyone to vote "No" and "No" so this leads me to believe I would prefer two yes votes but I aint going to bother my hole
everytime I read about it I get bored after 2 lines and still dont fully know what its for
Conor McGregor wants everyone to vote "No" and "No" so this leads me to believe I would prefer two yes votes but I aint going to bother my hole
Same same.
I think yes no is the way to as the wording for carer's is supposed to be shit
That’s what my wife said. But she couldn’t explain why.
with it being an irish referendum, i can only imagine the second question is “are you sure?”
Yeah I'm going Yes/No. I've no personal experience of it but Carers and those availing of Care are saying no on the second one so that's good enough for me.
Yes seems straightforward for the first one. Haven't a clue for the second.
I've read this a few times and can't make heads or tails of it.
https://www.electoralcommission.ie/...e-you-being-asked-to-decide-on/#CareAmendment
So the change will be from:
"We recognise that Irish stay at home Mams play an important role and we'll try not have you out working unless absolutely necessary"
To:
“The State recognises that the provision of care, by members of a family to one another by reason of the bonds that exist among them, gives to Society a support without which the common good cannot be achieved, and shall strive to support such provision.”
What the feck does that even mean? Is it the same thing just in a gender neutral parlance?
I've read this a few times and can't make heads or tails of it.
https://www.electoralcommission.ie/...e-you-being-asked-to-decide-on/#CareAmendment
So the change will be from:
"We recognise that Irish stay at home Mams play an important role and we'll try not have you out working unless absolutely necessary"
To:
“The State recognises that the provision of care, by members of a family to one another by reason of the bonds that exist among them, gives to Society a support without which the common good cannot be achieved, and shall strive to support such provision.”
What the feck does that even mean? Is it the same thing just in a gender neutral parlance?
probably took 6 months of a 20 person committee to come up with that.
"strive to support" is weasly turn of phrase. It's essentially meaningless.
twatWell it's replacing "endeavour to ensure" so at least they're replacing like with like.
Yes non-commital
Yes. No.
@PogueMahone The first one is very important imo. Family is not what was in 1937 when a Catholic fundamentalist wrote our constitution. It has a very real effect in lots of areas for those not in Dev's vision of Ireland.
@PogueMahone The first one is very important imo. Family is not what was in 1937 when a Catholic fundamentalist wrote our constitution. It has a very real effect in lots of areas for those not in Dev's vision of Ireland.
Maybe it's just me but it sounds a lot weaker. To me 'endeavour to ensure' means you have a goal and are working towards it.
"Strive to support" could be in mind only.
Literally it's not meaningless but yeah, in context of our Government it basically means "will do feck all".
As a non married father who ended up in the courts trying to get my kids protected from their mother, gender neutral is a huge leap forward.
Anything that guy does should be automatically do the opposite
I voted no to both. Unless it's crystal clear what implications changing the constitution will have how can I vote yes for anything?
Someone should have done a better job to explain what these changes will actually mean.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.
Someone should have done a better job to explain what these changes will actually mean.
Better the devil you know than the devil you don't know.
All the new right wing loons are shouting No/No. They see the gender neutral wording as an attack of woke gender fluid communists.
The implications are for us to investigate ourselves?
You don't think the constitution should reflect societal change?
I saw some absolute loon claiming to be an influencer on FB, encouraging a No/No.
He was telling everyone to bring their own black pen in with them because pencils could be rubbed out!
He was telling everyone to bring their own black pen in with them because pencils could be rubbed out!
There must be a reason the constitution wants to be changed and the government hasn't made it clear what exactly these changes will mean in the future and exactly how the people effected will be impacted.
I had my doubts so voted no.
If I lived near my voting area I might have, can't say I'm arsed travelling for it, having zero clue what it's for.
Article 41.2.1° “In particular, the State recognises that by her life within the home, woman gives to the State a support without which the common good cannot be achieved.”
Article 41.2.2° “The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.”
Seems like a strange thing to have in a Constitution, not going to lie.
Article 41.2.2° “The State shall, therefore, endeavour to ensure that mothers shall not be obliged by economic necessity to engage in labour to the neglect of their duties in the home.”
Seems like a strange thing to have in a Constitution, not going to lie.
The first one is quite clear no? It no longer reflects the reality. So that's surely a bad thing?
What ammendments in the past were you for or against?
Totally. Best option is to delete. The document was drafted by a religious fundamentalist and that section has caused lots of issues for unmarried families in the courts. 1930s Ireland was shockingly, not that progressive.
I am seeing Irelands new band of Alt-right weirdos and regular folks both say no and no though which is making me very confused
maybe I should actually read about this thing
Yeah, there are totally valid reasons for No. The alt right are just leaning into arch conservative reasons and in no small way mimicking the American right wing's constitutional fundamentalism.
Catherine Connolly makes, great sense, as always.
I was very tempted to go Yes/Yes as I saw even an imperfect improvement as an improvement,, but I spoke to two close friends with disabled kids and they convinced me to say no on the second one.
Phew, dodged a bullet there. For a sec I thought we’d all have to become lesbians
96% no in some areas the government made such a balls of this. Cost them €23m just to run it for feck sake.
the government made such a balls of this. Cost them €23m just to run it for feck sake.96% no in some areas
Considering it seriously needs updating they really fecking messed up selling it.
It’s easy to see why the referendum on the definition of the family failed. ‘Durable relationships’ is a ridiculous term that would’ve led to a plethora of litigation, and given the feeling on immigration in the country it was never going to pass.
It’s certainly of its time but it was also quite ‘progressive’ for its time, and in some respects still is. (I don’t really subscribe to this notion of ‘progress’)
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Oh yeah they made a balls of the wording.
The document was progressive for its time. But it was the 1930s and drafted by a religious fundamentalist.
I have zero knowledge about Irish politics, but I guess it is easy. Do the exact opposite of what McGregor tells you to do.
I’m not sure why you keep mentioning this ‘drafted by a religious fundamentalist’ line. Were the defeated replacement provisions drafted by…secular capitalist fundamentalists?
The Irish electorate (or those who voted at least) is almost 70% McGregorite on the basis of this then.
Well because it's an archaic and ultra conservative take on family. Also the history of the church on women on this island is appalling, so quite relevant.
What's capitalism got to do with it.
Yeah, I agree it’s archaic.
Culture and standards are a tricky area to make judgements on. After all the stuff about the church started to come out in the late 90s I remember asking my grannies and others of their generation about life back then and what things were like. Life was hard but they didn’t report this state of oppression that modern Ireland depicts it as. Mind you…none had a child out of wedlock, so in that respect you’re bang on.
I was trying to think of an appropriate description. Secular liberal capitalist devotees perhaps?
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