Reducing headers for safety

Ajr

Probably no longer under surveillance
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
3,987
Location
Thinking up of my next genius thread
Rather than outright banning heading, maybe another rule change could help. I had the idea that if pitch sizes are smaller, there will be less long balls/crossing hence potentially less header's /head contact leading to less concussions.

Another area where a lot of head contact happens is from corners, I don't know the solution here but maybe short corners are it somehow. Although I don't think that works because it would be too easy for the defence.

Headgear mandated is also never going to work as the NFL shows.

Softer balls are a possibility but surely would effect the game in other ways.

I don't see a way to stop concussions completely without banning heading of the ball which I disagree with, other than making some rule changes that would effect the game but less than that.
 

Patchbeard

Full Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2013
Messages
2,589
As a complete amateur my experience more being a lack of playing football in my teenage years I do think there may be a way to soften the ball to help somewhat...whenever I've tried to play football with a proper size 6 ball that someone's pumped up 'properly' I'm always shocked at how hard it is for me to kick properly and how painful it is if you head it wrong!

I assure you all I was a pretty OK player as a kid when you play with like a size 4 ball, but then I got distracted by other interests as a teenager and my feet then weren't ready for a size 6 ball at uni...

So then when I used to play 5 aside with my old work colleagues I'd always insist on using a size 5 not pumped to the max (otherwise I was rubbish)

Whereas removing heading completely would change the game completely, and other suggestions like making the pitch smaller would make things too congested with 11 players.

So I'm be all for a more flightly ball, might bring back long rangers due to the potential for unpredictable screamers too.
 

Ibi Dreams

Full Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2010
Messages
6,192
Making pitches smaller would change the game more than softer balls imo, and I'm not sure it would decrease crossing. Smaller pitches would lead to a more compact defence, harder to play through and teams may actually cross more because of that

I just think it's part of the game, and I don't think we yet have a conclusive body of evidence that shows heading leads to long term brain injuries?

Teams also don't have to play a crossing game, and players don't necessarily have to be great headers of the ball if they don't want to
 

JogaBonitoRooney

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 11, 2023
Messages
458
It's all about the quality of the ball. Don't make the ball pumped up like a brick and have quality cushioning then it will be safe for heading.
 

Steve Bruce

Full Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2008
Messages
1,374
Ajr said:
Rather than outright banning heading, maybe another rule change could help. I had the idea that if pitch sizes are smaller, there will be less long balls/crossing hence potentially less header's /head contact leading to less concussions.

Another area where a lot of head contact happens is from corners, I don't know the solution here but maybe short corners are it somehow. Although I don't think that works because it would be too easy for the defence.

Headgear mandated is also never going to work as the NFL shows.

Softer balls are a possibility but surely would effect the game in other ways.

I don't see a way to stop concussions completely without banning heading of the ball which I disagree with, other than making some rule changes that would effect the game but less than that.
Click to expand...
I see where your coming from but I disagree. I don't think we need to change the game to get around it.

What we need to change or enhance is the medical side of things.

Whether it means frequent scans, if the player has had x amount of headers or hard clash of heads, an enforced rest period. Reduce heading activities in training.

Boxing, rugby, mma, American football etc all have more/harder impacts on the head. It's only going to be avoidable if we start changing the sport and it's just a different sport or banning the sport altogether.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,815
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
In 10 or 15 years time, people will think it was absolutely crazy players were ever allowed to head a football hurtling at 50 miles per hour or coming down from a 70 metre kick.

And they will be correct too. Can you imagine what that does to the brain? Now think about players training daily, playing matches every 3 days where they do that maybe 5 or 6 times a match. Literally thousands of times a year they’re shaking their brain like that. It’s bonkers really. It’s just been so normalised over the last century.
 

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
11,274
Pexbo said:
In 10 or 15 years time, people will think it was absolutely crazy players were ever allowed to head a football hurtling at 50 miles per hour or coming down from a 70 metre kick.

And they will be correct too. Can you imagine what that does to the brain? Now think about players training daily, playing matches every 3 days where they do that maybe 5 or 6 times a match. Literally thousands of times a year they’re shaking their brain like that. It’s bonkers really. It’s just been so normalised over the last century.
Click to expand...
While I think that logically makes sense, have we really seen the evidence of its effects on former professionals? We have so many former players that are now in their 50's, 60's or older that seem to be functioning completely fine. And you could even argue they played in an a more physical era with worse footballs.

Compare that to the NFL, where there is numerous highly publicised cases of former players committing suicide or becoming erratic and violent, because of their head trauma (granted mixed with steroids as well).

I'm not saying there isn't a problem, or that it won't change. I just find it curious that we don't have former players that exhibit problems related to repeated head trauma. Or have I simply missed it?
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,815
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
Mike Smalling said:
While I think that logically makes sense, have we really seen the evidence of its effects on former professionals? We have so many former players that are now in their 50's, 60's or older that seem to be functioning completely fine. And you could even argue they played in an a more physical era with worse footballs.

Compare that to the NFL, where there is numerous highly publicised cases of former players committing suicide or becoming erratic and violent, because of their head trauma (granted mixed with steroids as well).

I'm not saying there isn't a problem, or that it won't change. I just find it curious that we don't have former players that exhibit problems related to repeated head trauma. Or have I simply missed it?
Click to expand...
https://www.skysports.com/football/...h-increases-risk-of-neurodegenerative-disease
 

Stack

Leave Women's Football Alone!!!
Joined
Sep 6, 2006
Messages
13,357
Location
Auckland New Zealand
Mike Smalling said:
While I think that logically makes sense, have we really seen the evidence of its effects on former professionals? We have so many former players that are now in their 50's, 60's or older that seem to be functioning completely fine. And you could even argue they played in an a more physical era with worse footballs.

Compare that to the NFL, where there is numerous highly publicised cases of former players committing suicide or becoming erratic and violent, because of their head trauma (granted mixed with steroids as well).

I'm not saying there isn't a problem, or that it won't change. I just find it curious that we don't have former players that exhibit problems related to repeated head trauma. Or have I simply missed it?
Click to expand...
I think you have maybe missed it, there have been a decent number of former pro players in recent years who have ended up with major problems. Thats why this discussion keeps rolling around each year and becoming more pressing each year. Its an actual problem.
 

izak

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,437
Supports
Glory Glory Red Devils
Y'all should let this rest, for something would kill a man,

Call me old school, if you can't take it quit and watch others play it.
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,815
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
izak said:
Y'all should let this rest, for something would kill a man,

Call me old school, if you can't take it quit and watch others play it.
Click to expand...
Which is more important to you?

A. The game remains as it was and people can header the ball.

B. The game adapts to move away from heading and the chance of players developing dementia is reduced.


My dad has dementia and I can tell you it is an absolutely horrendous disease. Not only for him but the entire family and his friends of which he has only a few left.
 

Bondi77

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
7,376
I think we should probably ban sports like boxing where the head is constantly pummelled and competitors getting knocked unconscious in a ring and then look at sports like rugby where head contact is more frequent before we get to football.
 

Mike Smalling

Full Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2018
Messages
11,274
Pexbo said:
https://www.skysports.com/football/...h-increases-risk-of-neurodegenerative-disease
Click to expand...
Stack said:
I think you have maybe missed it, there have been a decent number of former pro players in recent years who have ended up with major problems. Thats why this discussion keeps rolling around each year and becoming more pressing each year. Its an actual problem.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Hopefully it can be addressed in a meaningful way with limited impact on the game.
 

izak

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,437
Supports
Glory Glory Red Devils
Pexbo said:
Which is more important to you?

A. The game remains as it was and people can header the ball.

B. The game adapts to move away from heading and the chance of players developing dementia is reduced.


My dad has dementia and I can tell you it is an absolutely horrendous disease. Not only for him but the entire family and his friends of which he has only a few left.
Click to expand...
Has it been recorded that every player suffer from this after retirement?
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,815
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
izak said:
Has it been recorded that every player suffer from this after retirement?
Click to expand...
Can you highlight the part of my post where I suggested this?
 

izak

Full Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2016
Messages
1,437
Supports
Glory Glory Red Devils
Pexbo said:
Can you highlight the part of my post where I suggested this?
Click to expand...
If not then it's unfortunate others suffer from it, just because other have doesn't mean the game should cut out aspects of the game that makes it enjoyable...

What next, players stop running or kicking the ball because huge milage and kicking cause leg cancer?
 

Pexbo

Winner of the 'I'm not reading that' medal.
Joined
Jun 2, 2009
Messages
68,815
Location
Brizzle
Supports
Big Days
izak said:
If not then it's unfortunate others suffer from it, just because other have doesn't mean the game should cut out aspects of the game that makes it enjoyable...

What next, players stop running or kicking the ball because huge milage and kicking cause leg cancer?
Click to expand...
Do you understand statistics? I’d suggest that there is no statistics that “huge milage and kicking cause leg cancer” whereas there have been numerous studies on heading the ball increasing the risk of dementia.

Out of interest do you wear a seatbelt in your car?
 

duffer

Sensible and not a complete jerk like most oppo's
Scout
Joined
Jun 24, 2004
Messages
50,582
Location
Chelsea (the saviours of football) fan.
izak said:
If not then it's unfortunate others suffer from it, just because other have doesn't mean the game should cut out aspects of the game that makes it enjoyable...

What next, players stop running or kicking the ball because huge milage and kicking cause leg cancer?
Click to expand...
I believe this to be the most moronic post of 2024.
 

Pogue Mahone

The caf's Camus.
Joined
Feb 22, 2006
Messages
134,301
Location
"like a man in silk pyjamas shooting pigeons
Ajr said:
Rather than outright banning heading, maybe another rule change could help. I had the idea that if pitch sizes are smaller, there will be less long balls/crossing hence potentially less header's /head contact leading to less concussions.

Another area where a lot of head contact happens is from corners, I don't know the solution here but maybe short corners are it somehow. Although I don't think that works because it would be too easy for the defence.

Headgear mandated is also never going to work as the NFL shows.

Softer balls are a possibility but surely would effect the game in other ways.

I don't see a way to stop concussions completely without banning heading of the ball which I disagree with, other than making some rule changes that would effect the game but less than that.
Click to expand...
The most obvious area to focus on is training. Balls headed during a match will be a tiny % of balls headed during an average week. They’ve already started this in underage football, by restricting the number of training sessions allowed which focus on heading the ball. Could do something similar at a senior level. Difficult to enforce though.
 

Bondi77

Full Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
7,376
I thought there would have been less training in the heading department these days because it seems like the modern footballer is not as good in the air as in previous years.
 

cj_sparky

Full Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
8,309
I'd say a limit the amount of heading a team does in training and potentially a blanket ban for kids under a certain age would be the way to go.

Maybe my dad has just got incredibly lucky. He played well into his 60's, 50+ years of heading a football in training and matches. With many of those years consisting of multiple matches a week, he played Saturday and Sunday for a good 20/25 years. Now into his mid 70's, worked until he was 71 and is still playing walking football now.
 

Unam333

Full Member
Joined
May 26, 2008
Messages
5,884
I do think that the ball can be softer. I also discourage my child not to head the ball during matches.
 

FootballHQ

Full Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2017
Messages
18,354
Supports
Aston Villa
They'll always be crosses and corners in a game. It will be a poorer spectacle without.

One thing that has now pretty much gone out of a game is a keeper hitting a goal kick long and then midfielders jumping for the ball on the halfway line and heading it and having duels.

That adds little to the game so might aswell just ban long goal kicks which will be more fun when time is running out.
 

FrankDrebin

Don't call me Shirley
Joined
Aug 25, 2019
Messages
20,769
Location
Police Squad
Supports
USA Manchester Red Socks
Shane88 said:
Lets see De Bruyne rack up all those assists crossing one of these bad boys. The true litmus test for football talent is being accurate with one of those on a windswept field.

Click to expand...
I would so love to see this.
 

DWelbz19

Correctly predicted Portugal to win Euro 2016
Joined
Oct 31, 2012
Messages
34,140
Shane88 said:
Lets see De Bruyne rack up all those assists crossing one of these bad boys. The true litmus test for football talent is being accurate with one of those on a windswept field.

Click to expand...
The outside of the foot 25 yard screamers you'd score on the school fields with these. Absolute banger or the wind will float back into your own half -- no inbetween.
 

Donaldo

Caf Vigilante
Joined
May 19, 2003
Messages
18,247
Location
Goes it so.
Supports
Arsenal
izak said:
If not then it's unfortunate others suffer from it, just because other have doesn't mean the game should cut out aspects of the game that makes it enjoyable...

What next, players stop running or kicking the ball because huge milage and kicking cause leg cancer?
Click to expand...
Post of the year 2024 wrapped up in April.
 

rimaldo

All about the essence
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
41,125
Supports
arse
it’s a load of old shite. i was out in the garden heading the ball every single day as a children and my brain has been fine ever since. no problems whatsoever. i just think that there must be something wrong at the training ground with all these links to max kilman.
 

B20

HEY EVERYONE I IGNORE SOMEONE LOOK AT ME
Joined
Aug 23, 2003
Messages
27,616
Location
Disney Land
Supports
Liverpool
had someone done the "they earn millions, shut up and play" bit yet?
 

tomaldinho1

Full Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2015
Messages
18,104
JogaBonitoRooney said:
It's all about the quality of the ball. Don't make the ball pumped up like a brick and have quality cushioning then it will be safe for heading.
Click to expand...
This isn't the issue, for the same reason headguards in boxing don't work as they had hoped, it's not about a hard object or soft, it's about your brain moving. Some physicist can probably tell us exactly why but unless they can make it so the ball's mass is so tiny it doesn't impact the head, we're screwed.
 

Mb194dc

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2015
Messages
4,709
Supports
Chelsea
Why do any kind of activity with risk. You can get run over walking out of your house.

Players should be aware of the tiny risk in later life from heading the ball and can choose to take it or not. Kids should be playing with smaller lighter balls anyway, bit again it should be up to the parents.

I reckon in 50 years people will look back at how ridiculous and over risk averse the current era is. Whilst everyone just ignored the real problems for mental health, like smart phones, social media etc due to the money they generate.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.