Sjor Harmsopoly R1: Skizzo vs Jim Beam

With players at their listed peak, who would win? (only votes accompanied by a comment count)


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Physiocrat

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Skizzo



Jim Beam



Skizzo Tactics

Formation: 442 Diamond.

Two fullbacks who can bomb up and down the pitch or stretch play. Two mobile forwards who can run the channels and link up or have their own moments of magic. Platini in the hole where he still scored almost 1 in 2 during this period. Three midfielders who will run themselves into the ground for the team to keep things tight through the middle of the park.

Jim Beam Tactics

“You Mustn’t Be Afraid To Dream A Little Bigger, Darling.”

Tactics:
fluid, interchangeable 4-3-3 with direct and high tempo trying to outscore and outplay the opponent.

When you land Messi in the 1st round, you will obviously try to do the best to make your biggest star as comfortable as possible which was the route to pick further with a finishing addition of adding even more fire-power around him to overwhelm the opposition. Even in this team, my obsession with hitting opponent through multiple different ways and routes stays, so if you over commit on one side you can easily be punished on the other.

As for the players it is full of the ones who (while maintaining their individual brilliance) let the other star teammate shine which should suit Messi to a tee.

Toninho Cerezo - gracious, modern deep-lying playmaker who could run for two being part of Brazil and Roma (both with Falcao) magical midfield, but who undoubtedly carried the most of defensive burden;
Johan Neeskens - A Robin to Cruyff's Batman and like Cerezo, a player who could run for two man;
Rivellino - part of the magical Brazil 1970 World Cup team and probably the 2nd best player of the tournament while letting Pele be in his absolute best;
Karim Benzema - a wonderful foil to Ronaldo and Ballon d'Or winner in his own right

This four should fit brilliantly with Lionel causing havoc all around the pitch.
So, what the feck about Owen on the left (without Heskey, no less)? Imo, Owen today in a 4-3-3 would play on the left (or would have zero problems doing it)... Having a raw pace to burn and acceleration is a key to succeed in modern game as a left-sided winger "with the examples of Cristiano Ronaldo, Sadio Mane and Kylain Mbappe who racked up great numbers from such position."

His ability to time his movements to perfection would wreak havoc from the left by making those out-to-in diagonal runs, darting across the defender’s blindside.

There’s a level of freedom that comes with operating as an attacking winger that someone like Owen would thrive on. He would have the option to take up a position inside the box during spells of possession but could even try to make late runs and arrive unmarked.

For a finisher of his caliber, the possibility of being spared relentless man-marking is an absolute gift. He would have the opportunity to ghost in at the far post or pop up around the penalty spot for the cut-back with centre-backs preoccupied with the striker.

Some of the opinion peaces about Owen in modern game... But, not only that, there is an evidence of him operating from LW during his time in Liverpool to devastating effect.



Conclusion: all players at their peak; Messi clearly in leading role with a great supporting cast; a brilliant striker to tie it all together; multiple ways to break the opponent and last, but not least... finally, a big meaty role for Rivellino in the center of the park.
 

Himannv

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As soon as I saw the formation graphic, I had questions about Michael Owen. After watching that compilation, I have no more questions - that's an incredible find and a great tactical move. JB gets my vote.
 

Šjor Bepo

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like the look of both sides but hard to see past Messi(id pay to watch this duel vs Bobby :lol: )....if skizzo had just a bit more quality in Marquez and Coupet positions id be tempted to vote as i dont think beam midfield is all that and could struggle against skizzo diamond.
 

Jim Beam

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As soon as I saw the formation graphic, I had questions about Michael Owen. After watching that compilation, I have no more questions - that's an incredible find and a great tactical move. JB gets my vote.
Cheers! Always with strikers who played in variations of 4-4-2 you try to imagine where would they end up in more, modern 4-3-3 and there is really strong evidence that he would absolutely thrive as LW even without that game above (which obviously seals the case). Btw. Sven Goran Eriksson was eager to put him on a left wing for England in a more traditional winger role, so the thinking was pretty much always there.

But yesterday, Eriksson revealed that he will consider starting Owen out wide when he said: 'Michael can play as a first or second striker or from behind, as he has during the three games he has played for me.

'He was excellent in all three games in that position but I'm also convinced he can play as a winger on the left. I noticed that he often tries to find space on the left flank. From there he can go inside and shoot with his right foot.'

like the look of both sides but hard to see past Messi(id pay to watch this duel vs Bobby :lol: )....if skizzo had just a bit more quality in Marquez and Coupet positions id be tempted to vote as i dont think beam midfield is all that and could struggle against skizzo diamond.
Knew I wouldn't need to say anything about that duel, although am not nearly as tough on Carlos as you are. In any case, I like Skizzo's team, think he would definitely find a way to score here with that attack, but so would my team and I obviously went in with a clear idea to outscore the other side considering the personnel.

As for midfield, I like it. Can understand it is not so shiny and you are not a fan of Neeskens, but the roles are so clearly defined which I find the most important. Holder - runner - playmaker. I once had Bastian - Robson - Charlton midfield and almost hated it (eveyone can do everything kind of midfield). Hate is strong word, but definitely felt something was off. Think it works much better when everyone as a part of midfield commits fully to the best of their abilities. Also, as I said, Rivellino finally gets a big, meaty role in the midfield of the park without being pushed wide, so there is also that.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
Brilliant use of Owen by Jim, excellently justified too. I really like seeing Stoichkov in a front two as well, particularly alongside old partner in crime Romario. Both these attacking units are sensational.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Put Owen up front with Law, getting call out for not having Heskey....this fecker puts him on the wing and everyone is cheering up like Cristiano in Euro Final
 
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2mufc0

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I prefer Jim's team.
 

Physiocrat

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Put Owen up front with Law, getting call out for not having Heskey....this fecker puts him on the wing and everyone is cheering up like Cristiano in Euro Final
TBF I think that was me and I was wrong. I think it stems from the fact England have always been awful but for whatever reason Owen was better with Heskey for England.
 

Enigma_87

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Beam team is really really good. Think he takes it here as he has more quality spread through the lines.
 

prolifik

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I'm still backing and forthing about Owen there - he's got the pace and movement, just not 100% sure about the technique - but my opinion of Carlos is similar to Sjor's and that looks like a bloodbath waiting to happen. Love Skizzo's front six and Belodedici will sure help, but the Messi-Benzema combination (with Amoros on the overlap) feels decisive.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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I'm still backing and forthing about Owen there - he's got the pace and movement, just not 100% sure about the technique
Exactly what I thought, especially after looking at that video.

Looked to me like a talented young player with pace and quick feet who would do fairly well anywhere in the attack but would definitely excel a lot more as a forward. Didn't see pure exciting wing play there, so a little surprised with the love it has gotten, especially in an all time draft, would have probably lost my vote that move in a closer game.

Skizzo's biggest strength the front there runs into a pretty solid central core, so no brainer in my eyes. But I will be honest, during drafting, I was scared of drawing against him. That front 3 with those fullbacks was such an impressive setup to build on, didnt follow throughout I guess, but seems like the dice didnt help after the initial run.
 

harms

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With Rivellino peeling out wide & Benzema dropping deeper/moving left I can kinda see it. But Owen wouldn't play out wide in modern football in my opinion.
 

Jim Beam

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I'm still backing and forthing about Owen there - he's got the pace and movement, just not 100% sure about the technique - but my opinion of Carlos is similar to Sjor's and that looks like a bloodbath waiting to happen. Love Skizzo's front six and Belodedici will sure help, but the Messi-Benzema combination (with Amoros on the overlap) feels decisive.
Don't need him to dribble his way through. I need his raw pace and movement with an acres of space while the opponent commits himself trying to stop Messi on the other side. I think he is pretty much perfect for that role. Then again I will always try to find new stuff. Some will fancy it, some not.
 

Zlatan 7

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Skizzo better front 3 but not midfield and defence.

same thoughts on Owen as gstq. Can probably do a job there but for an all time draft it’s not ideal.
 

Jim Beam

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Well, personally, I think it is far more ideal than putting a player with 15 minutes of footage on SWP, LCB, LB, LWB and LW or a certain Russian with (admittedely) much bigger footage of 9 games on DM, CM (in a 4-4-2), LCB and CB.

But hey-ho, that's just me. Feck logic, it's an all-time draft.
 

Gio

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Tough one to split again. Both attacks are superb. I reckon each will cause problems to the other defence - neither have the ideal skillset to combat the low centre of gravity and pace of Owen, Messi, Romario and Stoichkov. Beam's midfield has a lovely blend. Less so for Skizzo's which has great legs and energy, but makes the deep build-up abilities of Marquez, Carlos Alberto and Carlos key to ball progression.

No issues with Owen off the side of a 3 where there is a false-9 style forward. Especially with Messi cutting those through-balls in behind the full-back. I don't think he works there naturally with a more conventional no9 where he would be expected to use his fairly non-existent left foot more regularly when reaching the bye-line. But here, with Evra overlapping and Rivellino drawing markers as well, it works.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Skizzo attack is beautiful and a good base for Platini with Lucha and Park able to drift into wide channels. D-line is a bit underwhelming though.

That Cerezo-Neeskens pair needs more thought. I'm not sure they can hold good vs Platini.