2023 Sheep Draft Final - Isotope vs. Enigma_87

Who will win the match?


  • Total voters
    10
  • Poll closed .

Michaelf7777777

(∪。∪)。。。zzz
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
1,678
Isotope:



Enigma_87:




Isotope Tactics:

Two exciting additions to the team, Di Stefano and Ruggeri, ae able to change the outlook of the team.

A big change involves getting "Blond Arrow" Alfredo Di Stefano and Ferenc Puskas to be back, proven partners with an impressive 363 goals over 6 seasons together with Madrid.



Another exciting change is Cristiano Ronaldo taking on his 2007-2009’s role as Manchester United's Portuguese winger. He plays on the right-wing, acting as both provider and goalscorer, swapping positions with the equally potent "Black Panther" Eusebio during the game.


The midfield is anchored by the dynamic duo of Graham Souness and Bastian Schweinsteiger, offering a perfect blend of no-nonsense defense and skill while energizing the midfield to support the attack.
And, wait for it..., both are also good passers who are comfortable playing supporting role in midfield.

The defensive lineup features Frank Rijkaard partnering with Oscar Ruggeri as centerbacks in front of Thomas Ravelli and supported by Giacinto Facchetti and the speedy Kyle Walker on the flanks, providing both speed and control from the back.

Both teams are evenly matched, but the reason I believe my team might win is the abundance of ultimate game-changers in a tight game, contributing to goals. The combination of Di Stefano and Puskas, excelling as both providers and goalscorers, promises to create beautiful plays. In contrast, the partnership of Romario and Stoichkov, though proven over just one season.

Enigma_87 Tactics:

Formation: 4-3-3
Style:
Team build around Platini, balanced, press in our half, counter attack and move the ball quickly as possible through the lines. Platini pulling the strings and exploiting Gullit/Stoichkov pace on the wings.

Defence:
On goal is Dino Zoff, Italy greatest keeper after Buffon and it's not like there isn't competition for that title. In front of him we have a classic sweeper/stopper combo with Scirea playing alongside Godin. Bergomi will be more of a balanced full back who can also provide vital cover in the defensive end with his physical frame considering the opposition will field a two/three striker system. On the left we have our new addition - Nilton Santos. Another playmaker type at full back he also provides solid defensive presence and solidity against most likely Eusebio on that flank. He also offers support going forward and doubling down on the opposition weakest spot - Walker. Scirea and Zoff come in a proven combo with what is probably an upgrade on the original Juve defence that set the world alight in the late 70's, early 80's. Bergomi comes in as the balanced tucked in RB, helping Scirea perform his natural role of a leader at the back. Scirea and Bergomi also formed a formidable partnership with Bergomi for the national team whilst Godin is the rugged stopper type which compliments Scirea natural elegance on the ball.

Midfield:
Shielding the defence is on of the best at the job - Desailly who will also is a very good physical presence and the right man for the job when it comes to facing most likely Di Stefano in the hole. We have upgraded the midfield by moving Breitner in a natural B2B role, where his playmaking ability, ball carrying and of course general presence would form a sturdy unit alongside Desailly and Platini. The midfield remains the same with Desailly also providing a pivotal defensive role protecting the back 4. Something very few in history can better.

Attack:
A mouthwatering duo on the flanks in Gullit and Stoichkov will stretch the defence, whilst also being a threat cutting in and finishing chances themselves. Both are also great creativity outlets to each other as Stoichkov crossing would be a very viable route to goal with Spencer and Gullit in the box. We have another upgrade in the striker department - Romario comes in for Suarez. He is one of the greatest players when it comes in positioning and scoring inside the box, but also his movement and dribbling can bamboozle the opposition defenders, whilst his movement to capitalizes off Platini passing ability whilst also drawing defenders off their natural position allowing Stoichkov and Gullit to storm in the box.

Upgrades:
We have not only two, but considering Breitner's new role - three upgrades in our team:
Nilton Santos - The "Encyclopedia of football" - his credentials are hardly topped - 2 WC winner, most consider him as one of the greatest left backs in his position. Ability to also slot in LCB role, very sound defensively and naturally two footed:


Paul Breitner - In a more influential role where he is a true midfield general in both phases. Fantastic vision and passing, ability to carry the ball and put a strong foot in the defensive phase. A great performance against Brazil side:


almost capped it with a goal but missed a peno(twice actually).

Romario - you can hardly top Spencer and Luis Suarez but Romario was just something else:



he's in the GOAT category when it comes to the striker position and in very elite company. You can hardly top his dribbling, finishing, movement, eye for a goal - all in one package.

Advantages:
I think a clear route to goal is Stoichkov against Walker. Stoichkov is one of the most prominent left wingers/forwards in history, Ballon D'or winner and at this stage I think Walker is a bit out of place. Walker has the pace and acceleration but being part of a start studded City team his defensive contribution has often been put to question and had some high profile errors throughout his career.

stat from 2013


Report in 2016
In a recent study, John Stones has been revealed as the most error prone Premier League player since August 2013, making 12 defensive errors in 86 games for Everton and Manchester City.
The likes of Gary Cahill, Kyle Walker and Dejan Lovren also feature in one of the more unfortunate top 10 lists.
Pep on his versatility and ability to defend inside:
"He cannot do it," Guardiola told reporters on Friday. "He will always have pace; Kyle at 60 years old will be the fastest player in this room. To play inside you have to have educated movements – he doesn't have every one of the characteristics.
"He has played as a full back coming inside in the past with four at the back. He has done really well but this shape of three at the back and two in the middle, he cannot do it."
Stoichkov is a rare combination of a winger /wide forward that can work his socks off, has a fantastic crossing, can score a load of goals and his will to win is unmatched.

Chemistry:
Apart from already proven core: Scirea, Zoff, Bergomi, Platini we also added a historically great duo in Romario and Stoichkov. Both had fantastic understanding between each other and scored loads in Romario short stint at Barca.


Whilst the opposition have some great names on the team sheet their chemistry is something that can be questioned. Di Stefano and Cristiano are individualistic players and whilst in previous game Puskas was tried in some sort of F9 here he has to play in his older striker self which is really not ideal for Cristiano. On top of that the right side has Eusebio who is mostly an inside forward/second striker than a true wide forward and Kyle Walker who also has abundance of defensive tasks to cope with as a only true outlet on the right.
On top of that all four of the opposition attack are mainly ball carriers.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,978
@Enigma_87 If Breitner is B2B, does that mean it is the Real version? IIRC he was more of an attacking midfielder than a B2B when her returned to Bayern in the late 70s, early 80s.

@Šjor Bepo I think you made a similar observation to this in the past.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,978
Props to @Isotope That's probably the best version of that XI he could field. Rijkaard at CB is a great choice.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,669
@Enigma_87 If Breitner is B2B, does that mean it is the Real version? IIRC he was more of an attacking midfielder than a B2B when her returned to Bayern in the late 70s, early 80s.

@Šjor Bepo I think you made a similar observation to this in the past.
true but works here as desailly acts like destroyer + always has back 3 behind + platini liked to drop deep and worked hard in the defensive phase
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
true but works here as desailly acts like destroyer + always has back 3 behind + platini liked to drop deep and worked hard in the defensive phase
But then, when was Breitner playing supporting midfield? If I'm not mistaken, It seems like he's always the main playmaker instead of just B2B.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,654
@Enigma_87 If Breitner is B2B, does that mean it is the Real version? IIRC he was more of an attacking midfielder than a B2B when her returned to Bayern in the late 70s, early 80s.

@Šjor Bepo I think you made a similar observation to this in the past.
It’s the late 70s version - the Bayern one. I wouldn’t call it more attacking you can check the compilation in the OP and others as well as I think @harms noted his defensive play in the past.
Props to @Isotope That's probably the best version of that XI he could field. Rijkaard at CB is a great choice.
Tbh I don’t think there’s good chemistry in the front four nor I can see that unit working well together.

even with Cristiano on the right he played alongside Tevez and Rooney in a more of a free role and with a defensive minded full back in Brown.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,669
But then, when was Breitner playing supporting midfield? If I'm not mistaken, It seems like he's always the main playmaker instead of just B2B.
thats anothet pair of gloves, you can debate that with enigma but i like the angle
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
Stoickhov - Romario duo partnership was only one season wonder. On their second season, it didn't work out. Romario only scored 4 goals in the League for the whole season.
 

Physiocrat

Has No Mates
Joined
Jun 29, 2010
Messages
8,978
even with Cristiano on the right he played alongside Tevez and Rooney in a more of a free role and with a defensive minded full back in Brown.
I think Walker at RB is fine with this Cristiano but yes, it isn't a massively complementary front 4. What I meant was that it was the least uncomplementary XI he could have fielded.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on Breitner.
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
I think Walker at RB is fine with this Cristiano but yes, it isn't a massively complementary front 4. What I meant was that it was the least uncomplementary XI he could have fielded.

Thanks for everyone's thoughts on Breitner.
This was United young Ronaldo as Portuguese winger. And I see Eusebio and Puskas as upgrade to Rooney and Tevez, players that can work interchangeably from any position on the field.

I think Walker as defensive RB has been proven in CLub and NT wise over much longer period there than Brown. I know it's not just his effort alone, but Walker's been up against fast player like Mbappe and Vinicius and came up pretty good.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,654
This was United young Ronaldo as Portuguese winger. I think Walker as defensive RB has been proven in CLub and NT wise over much longer period there than Brown.

I know it's not just his effort alone, but Walker's been up against fast player like Mbappe and Vinicius and came up pretty good.
Nah I’ve posted some stats above from his time at Spurs. He was very prone to errors and was leading the errors led to a goal for a good period of time. City have been really dominant but he was suspect defensively on more than one occasion.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,654
Stoickhov - Romario duo partnership was only one season wonder. On their second season, it didn't work out. Romario only scored 4 goals in the League for the whole season.
After the CL loss the whole team fell apart don’t think it’s a right reflection of that partnership compared to closer to their peak.
In Stoichkov case he was on decline after that.
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
Nah I’ve posted some stats above from his time at Spurs. He was very prone to errors and was leading the errors led to a goal for a good period of time. City have been really dominant but he was suspect defensively on more than one occasion.
Disagreed. He's one of the key reason City could play a highline defence. And arguably he's been the best righback of PL era and for England NT.

Meanwhile, Godin has played well on low block teams with Atletico and Uruguay. He's a bit an upgrade of Maguire, probably similar on John Terry level. Against my fast attackers, there's only one way your team could play to accommodate him.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,654
Disagreed. He's one of the key reason City could play a highline defence. And arguably he's been the best righback of PL era and for England NT.

Meanwhile, Godin has played well on low block teams with Atletico and Uruguay. He's a bit an upgrade of Maguire, probably similar on John Terry level. Against my fast attackers, there's only one way your team could play to accommodate him.
I think Walker has been criticised for most of his career in the defensive end, he said it himself recently and was criticised by his own fans when he assumed the vice captaincy after Gundogan left.

Despite playing a key role in the team which won the treble last season, Walker said at times he felt singled out for criticism.

"I'm always going to get heat," said Walker.

"If I'm not doing something right I'm always going to get scrutinised. That's been my whole career but it gives me the fire to keep going. You do see it and I've had a lot of criticism from the fans about me being captain and that it's all my fault.

"We're a team, we're in a team game. I feel being one of the most experienced players and the captain, I'm going to have to take that burden. It's something I'm going to have to carry on my shoulders."
As for NT I don’t think I rate him as high as you do. I remember Southgate deploying him as RCB to variable success but I don’t really rate him all that high.

as for Godin - he is in his comfort zone here and unlike Walker he didn’t play for a super team yet his credentials are pretty solid both at NT and at Atletico.

I mean at his pump he did lead the best La liga defence to a title, 2 EL titles, 2 CL finals where they did take out Cristiano lead Real Madrid and Messi lead Barca..

For Uruguay he also won the Copa America beating Messi lead Argentina - a side that also featured Di Maria, kun, Tevez and Higuain as attacking talent.

I think he also faced Cristiano for Villarreal where we couldn’t score against them in couple of games and that Villarreal defence finished 2nd,3rd and 5th in the three season he was there.

So whilst not the flashiest of defenders or most certainly not the most elegant ones his pure defensive skills for a decade or so could hardly be questioned imo ..

on top of that Zoff is also a big figure on goal and big advantage for our side compared to Ravelli, who I hardly remember apart from the 94 WC but I don’t recall him being very adapt on the ball or suitable for a high line. Of course happy to be proven wrong.
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
Sure we should question if Godin could fit in on non-low block team. Both Atletico and Uruguay were playing in low block defensive system, that suit him and the like of John Terry and Maguire the best. Once the two latter played in high-line against top teams, they barely survived.

Godin on high line against pacey winger

While Walker has been playing in high line Team, which is a lot more difficult to play and thus more prone to mistake. With England NT that play low block, he's always impeccable.
 
Last edited:

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
Maybe some missed the OP where I stated that I use young Ronaldo at United.

There are lots of tasty delivery from him here:

Ronaldo, Eusebio, and Puskas are dynamic trio ; especially young Ronaldo and Eusebio who can play on both wings equally good; as opposed to Enigma's front three which is very much more static position wise.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,654
Good game @Isotope ! You had some really heavy hitters in your team and done very well to overcome the sheep from the initial drafting !
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
Back to you @Enigma_87 . Yours have been the favorite since round 1. Applauding your bravery to have Godin there, although you have Rio available, just because you think it's the right profile to have.
 

Enigma_87

You know who
Joined
Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,654
Back to you @Enigma_87 . Yours have been the favorite since round 1. Applauding your bravery to have Godin there, although you have Rio available, just because you think it's the right profile to have.
Cheers, mate! Yeah Rio is obviously superior to Godin but his partnership with Scirea seemed off and vice versa. Both need physical stopper next to them.

Other option was to put Desailly next to Scirea and get Redondo as DM but couldn’t pass on Romario in the RR
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
Cheers, mate! Yeah Rio is obviously superior to Godin but his partnership with Scirea seemed off and vice versa. Both need physical stopper next to them.

Other option was to put Desailly next to Scirea and get Redondo as DM but couldn’t pass on Romario in the RR
Yes. THought that you'd have Desailly as CB, and have Platini - Breitner - Tardelli in midfield. Probably what i'd do.

Your richness of players at disposal is insane, though. Deserved winner.
 

harms

Shining Star of Paektu Mountain
Staff
Joined
Apr 8, 2014
Messages
28,038
Location
Moscow
But then, when was Breitner playing supporting midfield? If I'm not mistaken, It seems like he's always the main playmaker instead of just B2B.
He played with Netzer at Madrid for a start.


Yes. THought that you'd have Desailly as CB, and have Platini - Breitner - Tardelli in midfield. Probably what i'd do.
He made the right call. I’ve recently been binging a lot of Platini’s Juve and Tardelli has to be one of the least impressive big names of that side — not that I rated him that highly before, but I’m really not sure if he’s a better player than Bonini. He probably just edges because of his shooting ability but there’s really not much between the two.

Although to be fair I do rate Bonini, he was a very good player.
 

Isotope

Ten Years a Cafite
Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
23,642
He played with Netzer at Madrid for a start.



He made the right call. I’ve recently been binging a lot of Platini’s Juve and Tardelli has to be one of the least impressive big names of that side — not that I rated him that highly before, but I’m really not sure if he’s a better player than Bonini. He probably just edges because of his shooting ability but there’s really not much between the two.

Although to be fair I do rate Bonini, he was a very good player.
I'm not familiar with Breitner and Netzer at Madrid, but yes you're right that Breitner can play with playmaker then. Although Netzer and Platini is a diferrent type.

I think the discussion is not about Tardelli or Breitner, but more about having Desailly as CB, when Tardelli is available to play in midfield.
 

Šjor Bepo

Wout is love, Wout is life; all hail Wout!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
15,669
He played with Netzer at Madrid for a start.



He made the right call. I’ve recently been binging a lot of Platini’s Juve and Tardelli has to be one of the least impressive big names of that side — not that I rated him that highly before, but I’m really not sure if he’s a better player than Bonini. He probably just edges because of his shooting ability but there’s really not much between the two.

Although to be fair I do rate Bonini, he was a very good player.
watched less then you but same view, never saw the hype around tardelli