At this point I’m not convinced either of them can get it up
2024 U.S. Elections | Trump v Harris
- Thread starter Raoul
- Start date
You can believe that. But the question I would ask you is: do you think the Biden administration and presidential campaign are doing a good job at selling this to the public?
Pretty much this. There's also the ridiculous conflation that not voting for Biden is essentially an indirect vote for Trump. They could always vote third party, write someone in or spoil their ballot, which are all appropriate democratic gestures. No candidate should ever be entitled to a vote, no matter how spurious or unsavoury the opposition.
I don't think they are doing a lot of selling at all yet. That will not ramp up significantly until we get closer to the general election. It's also going to be a lose-lose, because a large part of the electorate is unaware of or not dissatisfied with what is happening in Gaza. The discontent will come from muslim Americans and leftists. I don't think it's something he can meaningfully campaign on unless something major is achieved in the next few months. And even if that happens it will come on the back of +25,000 dead. His best hope is that is doesn't remain a major topic in the lead-up to the election - it would be a lot better for Biden if the focus could be on Trump's court cases, his danger to democracy, and Dobbs.
Voting for the other guy, a third party candidate or spoiling your ballot are not the only available or effective means of protesting the incumbent's policy.
For Muslim voters in the US opening a path to the presidency for super pro-Israel Islamophobic wannabe dictator Donald Trump through such actions seems like the height of wilful ignorance.
You can hurt the Dems ability to make policy by making a protest vote further down the ballot. A second term for Trump will be a disaster for Americans and the world.
People keep on saying this but the polling doesn't seem to support it?
https://www.dataforprogress.org/blo...ceasefire-in-gaza-and-to-prioritize-diplomacy
That isn't to say (rightly or wrongly) for most of those people its a big enough factor to sway their votes though, either now or later in the year.
They're doing a lot of selling. Through press conferences, briefing with journalists, public statements.
The problem is what they are selling. They say "we want X from Israel" and then X doesn't happen.
If that's what you have, you are left with the sense that the Biden admin has no influence on Israel.
That may be good for temporary ass-covering. But as an affirmative argument that you'd be "better than Trump" it doesn't work.
This is pretty much spot on. Despite the odd protest here and there around college campuses, the Israel situation has largely vanished from the news cycle in favor of domestic issues; specifically the elections and Trump's legal cases. Biden will therefore be incentivized to straddle the fence on Israel for the rest of the year between tepid calls for restraint and a two state solution and criticism of Hamas for 10.7
Many of the leftists who are protesting weren't going to vote for him anyway and there is a growing sentiment among anti-Trump Republicans who are considering voting for Biden this time, which when combined independents who wont vote Trump under any circumstances, could be more than enough to win Biden a second term.
Fair enough. Others have made the point better than I did too.
Alright, I had a different idea of what you meant by selling. When it comes to convincing voters that Biden has been better than Trump would have been or will be on Gaza, I don't think it's something that can realistically be sold by Biden at all. Firstly, because it's mostly a hypothetical, and secondly because it's almost implicitly admitting that this is a shitshow. "If you think this is bad, you should consider how much worse it would have been/will be" will sound really stupid coming from Biden or his campaign. I still believe it to be true, though.
You seem to completely misunderstand how unprincipled and transactional Trump is. He would throw Bibi under the bus in a second if it suits his interests. Honestly, it wouldn't take much; he already harbors resentment towards Bibi for congratulating Biden in November 2020.
https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/202...eir-vote/0000018c-e983-df6f-ad8e-e9e7ca0d0000
The bottom line is that the US Muslim vote is absolutely up for grabs. 'Genocide Joe' has done nothing to appeal to this demographic, especially with his unilateral support for Israel as they continue to flatten Gaza.
Trump is likely to dominate Biden in a televised debate. As a seasoned media personality, Trump is not only entertaining but also quick-witted and camera-ready. Sleepy Joe is anything but.
In a Trump vs Biden, Trump wins by a landslide.
As previously stated, and worth reiterating, the Democrats would be wise to consider a candidate like Gavin Newsom if they aim to retain the White House.
745 sample size 
745 sample size
Sample size is low, yes, but it's not unusual for State polls.
Biden will beat Trump.
At least Biden knows who he is running against, Trump talks about Obama half the time.
Biden isn't quick anymore, but come on, neither is Trump.
Trump has always been a terrible debater, he won't dominate anything.
Biden isn't quick anymore, but come on, neither is Trump.
Trump has always been a terrible debater, he won't dominate anything.
Amusing seeing the media try to hype up this dead race. Trump will get close to 60% tonight and Haley drops out in the next 48 hrs.
I thought Trump was crude and ewww.... But one thing he does great is knowing his audience.
Hillary and her classy spell check didnt stand a chance, sleepy Joe would get obliterated on a debate the man is so slow with his thought he still think Deng Xiao Ping is the president of China
Trump lost all the debates vs Hillary, lost vs Biden, and then chickened out of another.
This idea that he is some master debater who "destroys" people is laughable.
With Trump you need a very strong moderator and he’ll never agree to a debate with one.
If you think of debates in a traditional, academic sense sure that makes sense. But the reality is that in the 21st century of social media, etc Presidential debates are not about policy or logical arguments. They are about sound bites, firing up your base, and verbal gimmicks. And on that note, @Suedesi is correct, Trump is indeed much more skilled at those things than Biden. Only Dems in the last 30 years that I think could perform well in modern televised debates against Trump are Obama and Newsom.
If it did, he would, but it doesn't, so he never will.
If that people view things, then Biden won the entire thing when he told Trump to shut the hell up, essentially what everyone but Trump cultists were thinking.
The best soundbite from the last few years.
Anyway, debates doesn't matter, maybe they did once, but not really anymore.
And if everyone just drummed this into their heads instead of deciding to smugly lecture a sliver of potential voters on the fact that this shit sandwich is a bit better than that shit sandwich...
Biden doesn't give a feck about some voters' concerns about what is going on in Gaza. And he doesn't seem interested in their votes. Why the feck would anyone else? Let the dice land where they will. If Biden loses he'll join Hillary and Gore and Kerry as losers, solely because of their failed campaigns
So, should I consider Ukrainian children when weighing up who to vote for?
Fair enough.But when Trump is deporting people and blocking others from coming in then the voters here can’t go crying about it either.
edit, a reply to adexkola.
Bill Clinton hammered George H. W. Bush in the debates. That is a key part of the story on how the 1992 election went in the last time that an incumbent lost prior to Donald Trump.
What about the right not to have a baby?
That’s another group (Ukrainian Americans) that should vote Dem in the election. Trump will sell UKR to the Russians. And then some.
But when Trump is deporting people and blocking others from coming in then the voters here can’t go crying about it either.
edit, a reply to adexkola.
But the reverse applies too. If you vote for Biden and he gets in, you can't cry about him bending over for Netanyahu or doing little to reverse Americans' concerns about the economy
Also my vote is useless (my state gets counted for Biden the moment polls open) so I reserve the right to bitch whoever gets in
yes, if you voteTrump wins New Hampshire, predictable.
Haley may as well drop out now, if she can't even get traction in NH.
Haley may as well drop out now, if she can't even get traction in NH.
55-44 so far, closer than I expected. Is it game over then for Haley? Maybe the most decent performance in the GOP primary, which shows how low the bar is.
Just a question, if Trump would obliterate Biden in a debate, why didn't that happen 4 years ago?
Just a question, if Trump would obliterate Biden in a debate, why didn't that happen 4 years ago?
What's the over / under on when she will endorse Trump after she finally pulls the plug? I say four days.
Trump would not obliterate Biden in a debate.
She was never going to actually beat Trump for the nomination. What’s relevant is her rise has poked holes in the perception of Trump’s infallibility, which would be a good sign for Biden.
Another ad teed up for Biden's comms team...