4 years without a trophy

The Urban Goose

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I miss seeing us dominant and playing top level football a lot more than winning cups. It's been a lot longer too.
Agree, I couldn't care less about winning the League Cup or Europa League (tin pot cups for also-rans), and the FA Cup isn't exactly high on the "want" list. I want to see us challenging for league titles and Champions League trophies. As long as we're progressing towards that, I'm happy.
 

GueRed

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4 years without a trophy is not rare for Utd, it happened a lot pre Ferguson. What is abnormal though is being happy with a top 4 place. It is not necessarily the fault of the board or the players to be happy with just a top 4 place. It is the fault of the system where top 4 grants you access to the millions of the CL. The premier league trophy in this sense is just the icing on the cake. When football wasn't money driven top 4 was decent now top 4 is basically a trophy. Places 1 to 4 are all equal, place nr 5 is a failure. In the old days place nr 1 was so much more than place nr 2.

The winners mentality is not here, it will only come through... winning. If I knew which players have that unstopping desire for winning I would tell you their names but I don't know.
4th place is seen as 'success'. Some fanbases down the years have celebrated it like they've won a fecking trophy!

fecked up.

FOURTH!
 

sunama

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The 4th place trophy is doing my head in.
The only people who should want 4th place are the Glazers as it gives them CL money.
I think it was Arsenal's businessmen who targeted 4th place. They'd actually rest players in the CL, so they can do well in the league and get 4th place, so they get into the CL the following season.
It's really messed up.
 

JebelSherif

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The 4th place trophy is doing my head in.
The only people who should want 4th place are the Glazers as it gives them CL money.
I think it was Arsenal's businessmen who targeted 4th place. They'd actually rest players in the CL, so they can do well in the league and get 4th place, so they get into the CL the following season.
It's really messed up.
This is a good point. I was thinking: after all that fuss about the ESL that maybe reform could have come but in a different way - an elite European Cup only for the league winners of each eligible country. That way, as in the 1960's 70's & 80's only winning your League is any good, for the success of it and for European qualification too. It would stop all this 'race-for-top-4' stuff.

Trouble is - money rules, not just at the clubs but at UEFA too. Such a tournament would rule out so many big clubs each year, for example either Real Madrid or Barcelona would qualify, but not both.
 

JebelSherif

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If Jaydon Sancho turns out to be the only significant signing this window - which is a possibility given the turbulent times we are going through (Covid-19) will that change this thread from 4 years.... into 5 or could that one player make all the difference?
 

Tom Cato

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Message to the "club is happy with top4" fanbase

Can YOU stop talking about this? We're creating a narrative that doesn't exist outside of debate forums and YouTube pundits (looking at you Goldbridge) "We're happy with 4th". The only argumet for top4 is Champions League and ease of recruitment, that's it.

You know who the only ones who have claim that the club is happy with top 4? The fans that pre-complain about the clubs achievement before, during and after a season or transfer window.

The only thing the players have said is that they are happy with progress, getting closer, but its all about trophies. Yet you choose to ignore that, pretend it's not a thing, and that the club for some absurd reason is happy with not winning.

That's it. No 4th place trophy, no being happy with not winning. Nothing. It is only the fans that keep rambling on about it. The players want to win, the staff wants to win. The fans want to complain about low ambition until we win, wait two weeks for the high to die down, then complain about the next thing.

So for gods sake, shut up and stop inventing problems for you to be angry about.

God damnit.
 
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Stacks

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Agree, I couldn't care less about winning the League Cup or Europa League (tin pot cups for also-rans), and the FA Cup isn't exactly high on the "want" list. I want to see us challenging for league titles and Champions League trophies. As long as we're progressing towards that, I'm happy.
Small time mentality. City literally go for the clean sweep, EPL, FA and EFL. All cups are significant as that adds to our cabinet and illustrious history
 

8thWonder

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Agree, I couldn't care less about winning the League Cup or Europa League (tin pot cups for also-rans), and the FA Cup isn't exactly high on the "want" list. I want to see us challenging for league titles and Champions League trophies. As long as we're progressing towards that, I'm happy.
Agreed

Small time mentality. City literally go for the clean sweep, EPL, FA and EFL. All cups are significant as that adds to our cabinet and illustrious history
Disagree.

City go for the clean sweep because they have the best squad in the league. Same with Bayern. Same with Juventus. Same with PSG.

The Champions league win over PSG a few years ago when Rashford scored his Penalty was far more satisfying to me than Van Gaals FA cup win or Jose's League or Europa league win. Nice to have but not really anything to should about.

We properly challenge for the biggest trophies the rest will follow swiftly. We 'only' pick up League cups then it won't really mean much in the grand scheme of things.

I genuinely believe this team is provably moving in the right direction and I'm excied about next season already. The 4 years without a trophy is a good line for the ABU's but it doesn't really mean much to me. It's the 8 years without winning the league which does, there's your bread and butter.
 

UnitedSofa

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If Jaydon Sancho turns out to be the only significant signing this window - which is a possibility given the turbulent times we are going through (Covid-19) will that change this thread from 4 years.... into 5 or could that one player make all the difference?
If you think Jadon Sancho will be the only significant signing in this window, despite the numerous reports of us being in for multiple important players, you're being a little deluded and very pessimistic with the clubs ability.

(Side note the amount of posters that can't spell our own players names on here is astounding. The amount I've seen MacTominay lately is shocking)
 

El Zoido

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This is, without a doubt, one of the dumbest threads I’ve ever seen on the caf. Ole is building a trophy-winning team, picking the right players, in positions we need filling, and more importantly with the right mentality to compete. The age distribution is good too. Some great teams never managed to win the CL, and missed out on the league, the standard is really high and winning a trophy is never a given. Just look at the lengths City and PSG have gone to win the CL in the past decade and still haven’t managed it. The entitlement of this fanbase really is something else. Thankfully the club ignores them and looks to be building something special.
 

el3mel

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This is, without a doubt, one of the dumbest threads I’ve ever seen on the caf. Ole is building a trophy-winning team, picking the right players, in positions we need filling, and more importantly with the right mentality to compete. The age distribution is good too. Some great teams never managed to win the CL, and missed out on the league, the standard is really high and winning a trophy is never a given. Just look at the lengths City and PSG have gone to win the CL in the past decade and still haven’t managed it. The entitlement of this fanbase really is something else. Thankfully the club ignores them and looks to be building something special.
So he's building a trophy winning team (that couldn't even defeat Villareal), but if we expect to win trophies we're entitled. Great logic from someone who calls threads dumb.
 

Botim

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The entitlement of this fanbase really is something else. Thankfully the club ignores them and looks to be building something special.
So:
SAF retires after winning dozens of trophies and a league title in his last year.
+ nearly ten years later, having not won a single title since or come even close, we're still "building something special"
= what an impatient and entitled fanbase!

That's some strange math...
 

UnitedSofa

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So:
SAF retires after winning dozens of trophies and a league title in his last year.
+ nearly ten years later, having not won a single title since or come even close, we're still "building something special"
= what an impatient and entitled fanbase!

That's some strange math...
United’s fanbase is full of entitlement.

What you seem to forget is that between Moyes, LVG, Mou there was 3 vastly different styles of play all with vastly different ideas of what the squad would look like. So the next manager has to come in and effectively put as back at square one.

So to expect us to have won a title in that time with arguably not so exciting football during that time kinda makes your point null and void.

It’s like saying during the Moyes,LVG, Mou era! “we’re so shit! But I still expect a trophy! But we’re still a shit team and x,y,z needs to be sold! But we’re man utd so we still deserve a title!”

The first sign of us progressing and actually challenging for a title and we are hate it because Ole isn’t hipster enough or he fecking smiles too mych and you want to change yet again! But you still want that shiny trophy!

Can’t have your cake and eat it. So yes, his point still stands.

A large portion of United’s fanbase grew up when they were always winning and now there has been an extended period of us not winning they can’t hack it and give off a huge aura of entitlement.

So yes this thread is incredibly dumb and the fanbase is entitled and impatient
 

Flytan

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United’s fanbase is full of entitlement.

What you seem to forget is that between Moyes, LVG, Mou there was 3 vastly different styles of play all with vastly different ideas of what the squad would look like. So the next manager has to come in and effectively put as back at square one.

So to expect us to have won a title in that time with arguably not so exciting football during that time kinda makes your point null and void.

It’s like saying during the Moyes,LVG, Mou era! “we’re so shit! But I still expect a trophy! But we’re still a shit team and x,y,z needs to be sold! But we’re man utd so we still deserve a title!”

The first sign of us progressing and actually challenging for a title and we are hate it because Ole isn’t hipster enough or he fecking smiles too mych and you want to change yet again! But you still want that shiny trophy!

Can’t have your cake and eat it. So yes, his point still stands.

A large portion of United’s fanbase grew up when they were always winning and now there has been an extended period of us not winning they can’t hack it and give off a huge aura of entitlement.

So yes this thread is incredibly dumb and the fanbase is entitled and impatient

I'm sorry but if arsenal can win FA cups and Villarreal can win the europa league, it's hardly being entitled to win those. But yes, I don't think it's the end of the world we haven't won the league or CL yet
 

Water Melon

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We have not challenged for the prem under Ole, in fact, we had collapsed massively every fooking time when it mattered the most. We are yet to win a Mickey Mouse cup with Solskjaer at the wheel let alone a proper trophy. Unless he wins a title there is no ground whatsoever to claim that he is building something really worthy of Man Utd standard. I am sure the Board are expecting a proper title challenge and a deep run in CL. Hope, Ole delivers. He has been backed massively and it is time to walk the walk.
 

Botim

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United’s fanbase is full of entitlement.

What you seem to forget is that between Moyes, LVG, Mou there was 3 vastly different styles of play all with vastly different ideas of what the squad would look like. So the next manager has to come in and effectively put as back at square one.

So to expect us to have won a title in that time with arguably not so exciting football during that time kinda makes your point null and void.

It’s like saying during the Moyes,LVG, Mou era! “we’re so shit! But I still expect a trophy! But we’re still a shit team and x,y,z needs to be sold! But we’re man utd so we still deserve a title!”

The first sign of us progressing and actually challenging for a title and we are hate it because Ole isn’t hipster enough or he fecking smiles too mych and you want to change yet again! But you still want that shiny trophy!

Can’t have your cake and eat it. So yes, his point still stands.

A large portion of United’s fanbase grew up when they were always winning and now there has been an extended period of us not winning they can’t hack it and give off a huge aura of entitlement.

So yes this thread is incredibly dumb and the fanbase is entitled and impatient
Who hired those managers? Who spend a billion buying them players? It's not about feeling we should win everything every year, it's about the fact we underperform because we are terribly run.

I don't see how it's entitled and impatient to expect the biggest club in the league, with almost infinite financial resources, to compete for the title. Four teams have won it since we last have, and two of those spend far less than we do. The other two would have never hired a bum like Moyes and wasted years trying to put together a half decent team.
 

edcunited1878

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We have not challenged for the prem under Ole, in fact, we had collapsed massively every fooking time when it mattered the most. We are yet to win a Mickey Mouse cup with Solskjaer at the wheel let alone a proper trophy. Unless he wins a title there is no ground whatsoever to claim that he is building something really worthy of Man Utd standard. I am sure the Board are expecting a proper title challenge and a deep run in CL. Hope, Ole delivers. He has been backed massively and it is time to walk the walk.
That's a very short-sighted vision by the board and glad they aren't as in control of the ins and outs or squad building. You don't just roll out the balls and assemble a squad in 3 years thinking that's it. You have to continue to improve and supplement, chop and change your squad every year. It's a gradual progression that takes years, if built properly.

Ole's only been manager for two full seasons, one interrupted, one not (but still not the normal circumstances absent of fans). The aim has been to assemble a team that can win a league title. If you can win a league title, you can win a domestic trophy, and go deep into European competition. United are getting closer in their own right, but they still have to get over the hump that is City....plus Chelsea and Liverpool to an greater extent.

The club, absent of Ole, has done a tremendous job in rebuilding the squad with talent and the mental fortitude it takes to challenge/win the league.

Say United does win the league this coming season. Well then they become the clear public enemy number 1 again. It's easier to win when you're chasing than it is when you're supposed to or when you're the top dog because the only way to go is down. Sustaining title challenges after you've won it is so hard to do (hello Leicester and hello Liverpool). If Ole delivers a major trophy, that would be a unbelievable and a come full circle type achievement. However, could careless who actually is the manager, as long as the club look after themselves and continue to foster and bring in requisite talent and characters.

And I for one don't truly believe Ole's been massively backed because he still needs time and a few players to take that next steps whether already at the club or not. It took years to get proper talented players worthy of winning in many positions such as CB, RB, LB (maturation of Shawberto), and attacking players (Bruno, maturation of Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood, and Cavani - but he'll need to be replaced next season).
 

wolvored

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If Jaydon Sancho turns out to be the only significant signing this window - which is a possibility given the turbulent times we are going through (Covid-19) will that change this thread from 4 years.... into 5 or could that one player make all the difference?
No we wont be winning anything with a player who is unproven at this level, even if he comes good. The CM and defence would still be porous. I dont think Sancho will approach anything near his german stats, in his first season at least.
 

wolvored

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That's a very short-sighted vision by the board and glad they aren't as in control of the ins and outs or squad building. You don't just roll out the balls and assemble a squad in 3 years thinking that's it. You have to continue to improve and supplement, chop and change your squad every year. It's a gradual progression that takes years, if built properly.

Ole's only been manager for two full seasons, one interrupted, one not (but still not the normal circumstances absent of fans). The aim has been to assemble a team that can win a league title. If you can win a league title, you can win a domestic trophy, and go deep into European competition. United are getting closer in their own right, but they still have to get over the hump that is City....plus Chelsea and Liverpool to an greater extent.

The club, absent of Ole, has done a tremendous job in rebuilding the squad with talent and the mental fortitude it takes to challenge/win the league.

Say United does win the league this coming season. Well then they become the clear public enemy number 1 again. It's easier to win when you're chasing than it is when you're supposed to or when you're the top dog because the only way to go is down. Sustaining title challenges after you've won it is so hard to do (hello Leicester and hello Liverpool). If Ole delivers a major trophy, that would be a unbelievable and a come full circle type achievement. However, could careless who actually is the manager, as long as the club look after themselves and continue to foster and bring in requisite talent and characters.

And I for one don't truly believe Ole's been massively backed because he still needs time and a few players to take that next steps whether already at the club or not. It took years to get proper talented players worthy of winning in many positions such as CB, RB, LB (maturation of Shawberto), and attacking players (Bruno, maturation of Rashford, Sancho, Greenwood, and Cavani - but he'll need to be replaced next season).
How come other managers have gone to oher clubs and won the league within 3 years including Ranieri at Leicester? Its all a big excuse to support Ole who rightfully should be sacked if we are nowhere near again.
 

Bogdannn

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We are officially 4 years without a trophy. In that time we have been in the EL twice where we have arguably the best team.

It's simply not good enough.

This isn't an Ole out thread or anything. It's a thread about the club.

It can't be tolerated. We nee to show some ambition. Build a proper team. A team that can win.

Our rebuilds take so long they never happen.

Whatever needs to be done the excuse simply need to stop. Whether that be additions or changes to the coaching staff or player etc etc.

For all the talk of Progress at the end of the day it's another poor season. We didn't progress where it mattered.


Approaching Lads it's only United vibes at this stage.
https://lastwonatrophy.co.uk/manchester-utd/
We need Fergie back
 

Shark

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There's no excuses next season. That goes for the management staff and the players. Something has got to change if we see the same disasters that was the Europa final.
 

Paxi

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Ole will be going on 3 years here. This season is the season — absolutely no excuses not finishing another season without a trophy and no serious title challenge. Hopefully Ole is that man but this season is the season to do it.
 

edcunited1878

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How come other managers have gone to oher clubs and won the league within 3 years including Ranieri at Leicester? Its all a big excuse to support Ole who rightfully should be sacked if we are nowhere near again.
Leicester was a massive one off and feel good story. And the point is that they couldn't sustain it because their squad got dismantled and because they weren't built for long term winning.

Chelsea can chop and change managers, but they have a consistent core of good players and always have players in and out.

United will need to replace Cavani next season...are the lack of goals down to the manager or in this case reliable goal scores across the front? Still need to reinforce CM.

We don't want to win the league once and then dilly dally amongst the top 3. Win and continue you winning and challenging at the very top.

Stop focusing on who the manager is and focus on the requisite level talent and character that is needed. United still need another player in CM and players such as McTominay, Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, and a fringe player to step up that next level and be consistent throughout a campaign. That's not all on who the manager is, but that comes with time and experience especially for Greenwood and McTominay.
 

Halftrack

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Ole will be going on 3 years here. This season is the season — absolutely no excuses not finishing another season without a trophy and no serious title challenge. Hopefully Ole is that man but this season is the season to do it.
Yeah, I don't really care much about the net spend. Chelsea and City spend more on players than we do, they're just better at selling them. Chelsea have their conveyor belt of youth that they sell off for good money. The season they sold Hazard for £100m, they also sold a random assortment of players who mostly never kicked a ball for them for £37m. They also somehow managed to get Atletico to pay £50m for Morata. Not to mention the loan fees they command for their more talented youngsters. Loan out a youngster for a season for a fee. He proves him self and does well, and next season you can loan him out for a bigger fee. Repeat for a 3-4 years, then sell him for a nice chunk of change.

Meanwhile, we hang on to players for too long, and end up letting them go for peanuts or on a free.
 

romufc

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Ole will be going on 3 years here. This season is the season — absolutely no excuses not finishing another season without a trophy and no serious title challenge. Hopefully Ole is that man but this season is the season to do it.
There should be none this season.

He came in and said its a 3 year process, well here we are now 3rd year.

Last year he had excuses that the players were young, squad is inexperienced but now none of those excuses will fly.

He has been backed, he has had time and now its time to repay it to the club, deliver a PL or CL. I don't think a FA cup or League cup will cut it.

Not only that, we cannot be going out in the group stages.
 

FatTails

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Yeah, I don't really care much about the net spend. Chelsea and City spend more on players than we do, they're just better at selling them. Chelsea have their conveyor belt of youth that they sell off for good money. The season they sold Hazard for £100m, they also sold a random assortment of players who mostly never kicked a ball for them for £37m. They also somehow managed to get Atletico to pay £50m for Morata. Not to mention the loan fees they command for their more talented youngsters. Loan out a youngster for a season for a fee. He proves him self and does well, and next season you can loan him out for a bigger fee. Repeat for a 3-4 years, then sell him for a nice chunk of change.

Meanwhile, we hang on to players for too long, and end up letting them go for peanuts or on a free.
That is a lot of words to arrive at the same conclusion, our squad turnover is the most expensive of any team in Europe, no matter how you look at it.
 

wolvored

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Leicester was a massive one off and feel good story. And the point is that they couldn't sustain it because their squad got dismantled and because they weren't built for long term winning.

Chelsea can chop and change managers, but they have a consistent core of good players and always have players in and out.

United will need to replace Cavani next season...are the lack of goals down to the manager or in this case reliable goal scores across the front? Still need to reinforce CM.

We don't want to win the league once and then dilly dally amongst the top 3. Win and continue you winning and challenging at the very top.

Stop focusing on who the manager is and focus on the requisite level talent and character that is needed. United still need another player in CM and players such as McTominay, Rashford, Greenwood, Martial, and a fringe player to step up that next level and be consistent throughout a campaign. That's not all on who the manager is, but that comes with time and experience especially for Greenwood and McTominay.
How much time in your opinion is it going to take though? We just need this player and someone to step up. We have been saying this for the last 8 years, never mind the 2 1/2 seasons Ole has been here. We could be saying this in another 3 years time, meanwhile the big trophies go to Chelsea, City and Liverpool. He has been backed extensively and got the players in he wanted, who wanted to come and got shut of players he didnt want to keep.
I still say if a manager at this size of club hasn't won a trophy in 3 years he should be sacked as he obviously hasnt got the winning mentality to implement with the club. Ole simply has to win any trophy this season and be in with a chance of the title with a game or two to go minimum
 

edcunited1878

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How much time in your opinion is it going to take though? We just need this player and someone to step up. We have been saying this for the last 8 years, never mind the 2 1/2 seasons Ole has been here. We could be saying this in another 3 years time, meanwhile the big trophies go to Chelsea, City and Liverpool. He has been backed extensively and got the players in he wanted, who wanted to come and got shut of players he didnt want to keep.
I still say if a manager at this size of club hasn't won a trophy in 3 years he should be sacked as he obviously hasnt got the winning mentality to implement with the club. Ole simply has to win any trophy this season and be in with a chance of the title with a game or two to go minimum
The five years after Fergie, United lost their way...completely. The player quality and characters were never good enough individually or as a group. The hope was there, but realistically, the talent was never good enough considering the teams who were better.

Chelsea, City, and Liverpool have had better managers and players (collectively) than United the past five to six years. Good for them, but more of a poor reflection on United.

It's an on-going process. Big 3 years to get them within touching distance, but again, the on-going process is continuing with the out-goings of Pogba, Cavani, a Mata, a Matic, and probably DDG. All those squad options must be filled correctly and how it benefits the team.

If Ole really wants to win a trophy just to shut people up (they never will shut up), just play 8 to 9 starting XI players in the League Cup and try your luck. Same with FA Cup. Knockout competitions aren't the best barometer of where you're going...see Arsenal. Chelsea haven't finished 2nd in the PL since they won in 2016, but have picked up FA, Europa, and CL. They have been a cup team for the past 6 years if we're honest. Not near the league.

People just don't understand how big of a step it is between 2nd and 1st. This is a club (City) that has the deepest pockets in Premier League history and in club football, really only next to PSG and Barca. They also have one of the best club managers of all time with a team core that has been together through their peak years. Before that it was Liverpool's peak two/three years.

Ole has a winning mentality, but winning finals isn't just about mentality, it's also about talent and the requisite cup luck you need on a one-off. I'm not going to get into the fine margins about last season's Europa League final, but United need to allow Ole to build the squad through at least the 22/23 season. Need to see this season out and then get a proper center forward/striker with central midfield reinforcement that can bench one of McTominay or Fred, but still function well (if not better) for the team.

But if the club think there's a manager that can take United to the top going into the 22/23 season, then that's their call. It doesn't mean that the building process of the squad stops or the club loses the vision of the type of squad they want to build. I personally wouldn't do it because the squad building isn't finished and having consistency within the coaching ranks (Eric Ramsey might be a masterstroke of a new coach from Chelsea), plus the core players who are maturing at a rapid pace (Henderson, Shaw, Maguire, AWB, McTominay, Rashford, Bruno, Fred, Sancho).
 

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Yesterday I watched this and can't help but think how beautiful and exciting our football was yet we won nothing sadly.

We scored a total of 121 goals last season, this year we have Sancho. Let's hope for the best :devil:
 

LoneStar

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Ole will be going on 3 years here. This season is the season — absolutely no excuses not finishing another season without a trophy and no serious title challenge. Hopefully Ole is that man but this season is the season to do it.
If we end up signing a defender and a midfielder (if Pogba leaves), there are no excuses left anymore. If we continue to bottle it in the big moments, Ole needs to be let go.
 

JebelSherif

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If we end up signing a defender and a midfielder (if Pogba leaves), there are no excuses left anymore. If we continue to bottle it in the big moments, Ole needs to be let go.
Oops - he's just been given a new contract!