Auction Draft Chaos 2021 QF - GSTQ vs Michael

With all players at their peak, which team do you think would win this game?

  • Total voters
    13
  • Poll closed .

Fenômeno

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Dragon of Dojima
GSTQ

GSTQ-formation-tactics.png


VS

Michael

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GSTQ TACTICS

Tactics - Play attacking football

Not much that isn't obvious about the team to put in the OP. Pretty standard 4-2-3-1 with clean fits.

MICHAEL TACTICS

My team will play a 4-2-3-1 formation. My defence is led by the great Uruguayan captain Obdulio Varela who is one of the greatest leaders and defensive midfielders of all time. My defence also features Vierchowod who Maradona considered his toughest opponent and van Basten considered one of the two best defenders he ever faced and Bobby Moore who Pele considered the best defender he faced. Demyanenko and Leandro were both able to deal with their flank defensively while still being an offensive threat.

Due to my opponent's lack of a specialist defensive midfielder (both Keane and Robson were box to box midfielders), my key attacking threat is the passing ability provided by Bochini to take full advantage of the pace of Blokhin and Spencer as well as Demyanenko and Leandro on occasion. In Argentina an accurate pass that leaves an attacker 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper is still called a Pase Bochinesco (Bochinesque pass) despite Argentine football having many great passers over the years including Riquelme. Bochini's passing ability can be seen from 8:30 to 15:39 in the following video:

 
Alright, that's a wonderful team from Michael as well, I thought that the game was done and dusted once I saw the Pavoni United.
 
That spine of Michael is pretty much bullet proof, but GSTQ wingers can make some inroads in the wide areas.
 
Aye, as I said in the first game, the balance of that Michael team is excellent and as good as any other team in this draft. Not just one area of the pitch but in all 3 areas - attack, midfield and defense.

I think what the team only lacks is a talismanic GOAT game changer in attack who can turn the game on its head in a moment. Someone like a Best or Charlton on my side which is where I have the advantage IMO.
 
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Joga Bonito said:
Two cracking sides.

@GodShaveTheQueen any specific reason for the V.Valdes pick?
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He played 2 games for United.

I messed up and played Harry Gregg in the first game and had to sell him for reinforcements.

Should have played Valdes first game and Gregg for the rest of the games.

The team anyways shouts for Schmeichel to come in if I do get through
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
I think what the team only lacks is a talismanic GOAT game changer in attack who can turn the game on its head in a moment.
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Hm, I'd think there's enough of that in Michael's front five. But the genius factor in your attack is certainly bigger.

Can you say a bit about your FBs - their traits and general level? Michael's wide players are really strong, so that's an important area. It's certainly good that both wingers offer good defensive support, as does the CM. (On Beszonov also summoning @harms and @Demyanenko_square_jaw, if you guys want.)

CBs are fantastic, but Valdes... his strengths are very specific and his clown potential in a regular keeper job pretty high.
 
Synco said:
Hm, I'd think there's enough of that in Michael's front five.
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In an all time context, Bochini-Spencer is good, not great. The wide men are an excellent combination to build with and at least 1 GOAT centrally takes it a couple of notches higher IMO.

Synco said:
Can you say a bit about your FBs - their traits and general level?
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Pavoni was an excellent man marker. Pretty balanced and offered lots in attack as well.

Bezsonov again, known to be very good in both phases of the game. Injuries hampered his career but when fit was considered a really special player who can dominate a flank on his own in both phases.

Synco said:
CBs are fantastic, but Valdes... his strengths are very specific
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Well, I don't see him as just a tiki taka player although that is ideal setup for him. Was a pretty good keeper otherwise as well. His distribution would be really good on have on the counters like Schmeichel
 
Synco said:
Can you say a bit about your FBs - their traits and general level? Michael's wide players are really strong, so that's an important area. It's certainly good that both wingers offer good defensive support, as does the CM. (On Beszonov also summoning @harms and @Demyanenko_square_jaw, if you guys want.)
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Bezsonov was a brilliant all-rounder (either flank, midfield, CB — he could play everywhere), very much a prototype of Lobanovsky's perfect player; very good in pretty much every component of the game without being truly outstanding (on an all-time scale) at anything. He probably had a higher potential than Demyanenko (who I rate as a slightly better player), but the injuries stopped him from fulfilling it (he became the best player of FIFA U-20 World Cup in 1977 for example).
 
Once the draw was made, realised there are a lot of parallels between Pavoni and Leandro.

Both rated really highly in South America with great careers decorated with trophies including the continental ones.

Both relatively unknown outside of South America.

Both flank dominators and good in both phases of the game. Pavoni of course the better defender and Leandro the better attacker.

If you have watched them, both pretty good with distribution of the ball from the back and not just limited to running up and down the flank.

Both were good enough defensively to have played CB at some points late in their careers.
 
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GodShaveTheQueen said:
Pavoni was an excellent man marker. Pretty balanced and offered lots in attack as well.

Bezsonov again, known to be very good in both phases of the game. Injuries hampered his career but when fit was considered a really special player who can dominate a flank on his own in both phases.
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harms said:
Bezsonov was a brilliant all-rounder (either flank, midfield, CB — he could play everywhere), very much a prototype of Lobanovsky's perfect player; very good in pretty much every component of the game without being truly outstanding (on an all-time scale) at anything. He probably had a higher potential than Demyanenko (who I rate as a slightly better player), but the injuries stopped him from fulfilling it (he became the best player of FIFA U-20 World Cup in 1977 for example).
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Sounds good for this game.
 
I'd agree with harms take on Bezsonov, with the addition that despite being an all-rounder obviously he wasn't equally good at all those positions. I'm not too convinced by him at centre-back, though possibly i'm making too much emphasis of the '86 World Cup Belgium defensive performance, where there was a defensive injury crisis that saw him playing centrally and taking on role of main defensive organiser.

He brought a tactically intelligent, skillful all-round midfield style to fullback. One of the things i liked most about him was his intelligent dribbling, he had the technique, balance and pace to dribble or surge past a player or two from deep midfield positions and then the decision-making to play the right pass afterward. However despite a good ability to return to form quickly and still having the fitness to get up and down the flank all game, that dribbling was seen less often by the late 80s because of all the injuries, and he relied more on his passing range. I rate his attacking qualities as clearly higher than his defensive ones, where he was still very capable and responsible, but no Thuram, Maldini or Bergomi as a tackler.

Like Junior his main strength at his best is in basically giving you an extra midfielder/ intelligent side-midfielder skillset around.

This assist againt Sweden is a good example of his dribbling and being able to time the pass correctly. Bonus great free kick that leaves Dasayev completely flat footed.

 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I'd agree with harms take on Bezsonov, with the addition that despite being an all-rounder obviously he wasn't equally good at all those positions. I'm not too convinced by him at centre-back, though possibly i'm making too much emphasis of the '86 World Cup Belgium defensive performance, where there was a defensive injury crisis that saw him playing centrally and taking on role of main defensive organiser.
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Oh, yeah, he was certainly a better fullback than he was a CB, it's just that he was often used (usually as a solution to an unexpected injury/disqualification) in other positions due to his versatility.
 
Demyanenko_square_jaw said:
I'd agree with harms take on Bezsonov, with the addition that despite being an all-rounder obviously he wasn't equally good at all those positions. I'm not too convinced by him at centre-back, though possibly i'm making too much emphasis of the '86 World Cup Belgium defensive performance, where there was a defensive injury crisis that saw him playing centrally and taking on role of main defensive organiser.

He brought a tactically intelligent, skillful all-round midfield style to fullback. One of the things i liked most about him was his intelligent dribbling, he had the technique, balance and pace to dribble or surge past a player or two from deep midfield positions and then the decision-making to play the right pass afterward. However despite a good ability to return to form quickly and still having the fitness to get up and down the flank all game, that dribbling was seen less often by the late 80s because of all the injuries, and he relied more on his passing range. I rate his attacking qualities as clearly higher than his defensive ones, where he was still very capable and responsible, but no Thuram, Maldini or Bergomi as a tackler.

Like Junior his main strength at his best is in basically giving you an extra midfielder/ intelligent side-midfielder skillset around.

This assist againt Sweden is a good example of his dribbling and being able to time the pass correctly. Bonus great free kick that leaves Dasayev completely flat footed.

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wow thats some assist! Also, shit keeping from Dasayev.
 
So out of curiosity, I looked up how many games has Bochini made an appearance in drafts here over the years through a quick google search. And apart from Michael's teams, he has been picked and started in a grand total of 3 games in 74 drafts (once in the Americas draft so that hardly counts).

Just one appearance in 2014 and one in 2018.

Out of the 3 games he appeared in, seems to have won 2 of them but dropped/reinforced in the next round as I couldn't find subsequent games for him.

Are we doing him a disservice or simply need to be educated by someone on him to a deeper extent?

Interestingly, 10 people picked him in their AMs voting list that harms runs. So why does no one pick him? Which tier do people see him in an all time context? I am not very knowledgeable on him beyond a few YouTube videos, so I wouldn't even know where to put him.
 
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GodShaveTheQueen said:
Are we doing him a disservice or simply need to be educated by someone on him to a deeper extent?

Which tier do people see him in an all time context?
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@Michaelf7777777 , would love to hear from you on the above. At the risk of shooting myself in the foot, it might even buy you a few extra votes like it did for Synco with Zebec :lol:
 
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Bochini was an enganche which meant that he was usually deployed between the opponent's midfield and defence to play passes through to either a targetman or onrushing attackers and wingbacks. This post by someone who watched more than 300 Independiente games involving Bochini ranks him in the top group of passers ever along with the likes of Platini, Zico and Laudrup and above Socrates, Zidane and Ronaldinho.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
So out of curiosity, I looked up how many games has Bochini made an appearance in drafts here over the years through a quick google search. And apart from Michael's teams, he has been picked and started in a grand total of 3 games in 74 drafts (once in the Americas draft so that hardly counts).

Just one appearance in 2014 and one in 2018.

Out of the 3 games he appeared in, seems to have won 2 of them but dropped/reinforced in the next round as I couldn't find subsequent games for him.

Are we doing him a disservice or simply need to be educated by someone on him to a deeper extent?

Interestingly, 10 people picked him in their AMs voting list that harms runs. So why does no one pick him? Which tier do people see him in an all time context? I am not very knowledgeable on him beyond a few YouTube videos, so I wouldn't even know where to put him.
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3 games? :eek:

That's certainly a shocking number for someone of his quality. To be fair, you have to build a team around him and it's impossible to somehow fit him in a team as a supporting player and the competition for the number 10 spot is by far the toughest... but still. Amazing player. Riquelme, who shares a lot of his qualities, also doesn't get picked very often, I think (but he is in a slightly better position as more people saw him play at his peak).

For me it's:
T1 Maradona, Zico, Platini
T2 Netzer, Rivera, Laudrup, Charlton etc.
T3 Bochini, Totti, Socrates, Rui Costa etc.
 
Tbf looking at harms tiers i reckon there would be a decent amount of n10 that dont get picked, Rui Costa for example. Position died so it only makes sense to go that route if you can get an elite option, at least thats my view though im sure someone like enigma would disagree considering he has a n10 in every team :)
 
Michaelf7777777 said:
Bochini was an enganche which meant that he was usually deployed between the opponent's midfield and defence to play passes through to either a targetman or onrushing attackers and wingbacks. This post by someone who watched more than 300 Independiente games involving Bochini ranks him in the top group of passers ever along with the likes of Platini, Zico and Laudrup and above Socrates, Zidane and Ronaldinho.
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It's fascinating that he lists Figueroa in the first tier of all-time passing greats. I wish there was more footage of him available :(
 
Michaelf7777777 said:
Bochini was an enganche which meant that he was usually deployed between the opponent's midfield and defence to play passes through to either a targetman or onrushing attackers and wingbacks. This post by someone who watched more than 300 Independiente games involving Bochini ranks him in the top group of passers ever along with the likes of Platini, Zico and Laudrup and above Socrates, Zidane and Ronaldinho.
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Wow, there are some really excellent posts on his PES stats page. These 5-6 page ones are always a good read. Had not visited PES stats in a while now although I used to be a regular visiter till the site started having server issues and slowness.
 
harms said:
It's fascinating that he lists Figueroa in the first tier of all-time passing greats. I wish there was more footage of him available :(
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Doesn't list Xavi in tier 2 as well. Apparently doesn't rate his long passing (which might partly be true)
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
So out of curiosity, I looked up how many games has Bochini made an appearance in drafts here over the years through a quick google search. And apart from Michael's teams, he has been picked and started in a grand total of 3 games in 74 drafts (once in the Americas draft so that hardly counts).

Just one appearance in 2014 and one in 2018.

Out of the 3 games he appeared in, seems to have won 2 of them but dropped/reinforced in the next round as I couldn't find subsequent games for him.

Are we doing him a disservice or simply need to be educated by someone on him to a deeper extent?

Interestingly, 10 people picked him in their AMs voting list that harms runs. So why does no one pick him? Which tier do people see him in an all time context? I am not very knowledgeable on him beyond a few YouTube videos, so I wouldn't even know where to put him.
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Having ranked Bochini second highest after Michael, I'll give my take on it. I think it's a combination of firstly the strength in depth of the no 10 position and where players, below him in those rankings, are picked more because they can play as sidekicks, either as 9.5 types (eg Kaka) or in wider roles (eg Giresse), or as part of themed teams. And secondly because it's almost impossible for South Americans to gain much mainstream appeal for their club careers alone. The only ones that have broken that threshold here are those that have been sold hugely - as you say with local insight - such as Penarol's Spencer and Goncalves (we could also make the same parallel with some of the Eastern Europeans). Otherwise they need a big World Cup to their name, which is where Bochini falls a little short given he wasn't selected in 78 and not the same force by 86. Obviously affects his legacy, but not his fault as I know there were plenty of bizarre selection decisions around that sort of time (as to give a couple of random examples, Souness and Hansen couldn't even get in the Scotland team for the same World Cup, while Rivera was on the bench for Italy in the 70 final).

Tremendous player and I give a lot of weight to his club career which should be seen as just as strong as any Euro equivalent. Here can see him dovetailing nicely in that midfield, bouncing passes with Falcao and Figo, while the athletic duo of Blokhin and Spencer are potentially deadly outlets for his threaded balls.
 
Gio said:
Having ranked Bochini second highest after Michael, I'll give my take on it. I think it's a combination of firstly the strength in depth of the no 10 position and where players, below him in those rankings, are picked more because they can play as sidekicks, either as 9.5 types (eg Kaka) or in wider roles (eg Giresse), or as part of themed teams. And secondly because it's almost impossible for South Americans to gain much mainstream appeal for their club careers alone. The only ones that have broken that threshold here are those that have been sold hugely - as you say with local insight - such as Penarol's Spencer and Goncalves (we could also make the same parallel with some of the Eastern Europeans). Otherwise they need a big World Cup to their name, which is where Bochini falls a little short given he wasn't selected in 78 and not the same force by 86. Obviously affects his legacy, but not his fault as I know there were plenty of bizarre selection decisions around that sort of time (as to give a couple of random examples, Souness and Hansen couldn't even get in the Scotland team for the same World Cup, while Rivera was on the bench for Italy in the 70 final).

Tremendous player and I give a lot of weight to his club career which should be seen as just as strong as any Euro equivalent. Here can see him dovetailing nicely in that midfield, bouncing passes with Falcao and Figo, while the athletic duo of Blokhin and Spencer are potentially deadly outlets for his threaded balls.
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Agree with most of it. The depth in No. 10 position seems to be the most significant reason, but still 3 games might be the least for anyone in his tier by a mile. I'll see if I can pick him in one of the future drafts.

Also agree that Blokhin and Spencer are excellent outlets for him and his defense splitting through balls.

Would recommend those who haven't seen him to watch his passing from the video shared by Mike in the OP. Not the fastest of players or the greatest of dribblers but his eye for a pass is absolutely exceptional.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Doesn't list Xavi in tier 2 as well. Apparently doesn't rate his long passing (which might partly be true)
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:lol: So essentially any moron can create a list....what amazes me that people give even a 1% value to those sites
 
Šjor Bepo said:
:lol: So essentially any moron can create a list....what amazes me that people give even a 1% value to those sites
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Come on, his posts in general does seem to be insightful. And apparently has watched 40 years of football and based on his post, I can believe it.

I don't necessarily agree with his rating of Xavi (even puts Charlton in tier 3), but no point calling him a moron.

Those sites in general earn my attention at least. Lots of rubbish at times but lots of gems too.
 
GodShaveTheQueen said:
Come on, his posts in general does seem to be insightful. And apparently has watched 40 years of football and based on his post, I can believe it.

I don't necessarily agree with his rating of Xavi (even puts Charlton in tier 3), but no point calling him a moron.

Those sites in general earn my attention at least. Lots of rubbish at times but lots of gems too.
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Moron in terms of football knowledge yes, you can watch 100 years if you dont understand what you watch you will be at the same point you was after 2 years and given he has Xavi in tier 2 when it commes to passing out off all things its safe to say i dont care about what he has to say, you can if it works for you im just telling my standpoint.

Though ih general i prefer to see with my own eyes rather then read reviews of others even if they know what they talking about(so when harms, invi, demya etc. too many to name from here say something im taking it with a pinch of salt until i see with my eyes). Maybe i know feck all but at least will be purely my opinion.
 
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Unlucky @Michaelf7777777 fantastic team and close game . I think being on a United platform might have tilted it for some.
 
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