Rabiot was in the game too doing the Matuidi role.
Aurelien Tchouameni / Signs for Madrid
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Deschamps has always played a lopsided 4-3-3 and Pogba was part of the 3-man midfield. The 3rd man (other than Pogba or Kante) being Rabiot, Matuidi or Moussa Sissoko.
It's a fact conveniently ignored. Neither of those players is as absent in midfield and defence as Bruno Fernandes is for us, who plays like a second striker. It's not comparable.
Have there been any rumours regarding a potential transfer fee?
Nope, all indications are that Rice is Ole's guy.
Yeah Deschamps has a 3rd midfielder even them Griezmann puts in a shift defensively more than Bruno does for us. The only way to improve our double pivot is with a mcfred that's comfortable on the ball. There isn't a dm that will do the job all on his own next to Pogba.
Having a 3rd midfielder standing on the wing has never made Pogba play better individually though.
It's the speed of international football that helps him. He gets pressed less and has more time on the ball. If we used the same tactics at United he wouldn't look any different.
Yeah, it's always skipped over in these fantasy line-ups with Rice at the base and Pogba and Bruno as #8's. The thing is Pogba will likely go next summer so Tchouameni as a holder and a new #8 should be on the menu.
As I said, we won't have an option. You can't just buy Haaland (if we manage that) and keep a midifled of McFred and that's it... That's pointless
Exactly. Which is why I would have gone for 1 now. But hopefully Ole proves us wrong.
It's not about how he looks individually it's about how the team looks.
France have way more cover in midfield than for example what we had against Wolves when we played Pogba in the middle. Tchouameni yesterday was at no point as isolated and as helpless as Fred was at the Molineux last weekend when he had Adama Traore or Trincao running at him with no other MF about to help. Pogba still came out of that game looking good individually thanks to his immense passing, but our our midfield collectively struggled to contain the Wolves threat. We got the 3 points only thanks to some badly missed chances from Wolves and our goalkeeper's heroics.
He looked very good yesterday. A Kante-esque performance. I hope he's on our radar, would rather have him than Rice, Neves or Bissouma.
£35M was mentioned at the start of the summer.
Will only go up now. Maybe in February if we are interested
Also Pogba in midfield plays like an #8, but Bruno doesn't. He rarely helps with build-up on our own half, he's making movements up on the final 3rd of the pitch. He plays like a free-roaming #10 or support striker.
So even if Rice in DM with Pogba-Bruno as 8s "worked" (as in maintaining some balance and control of midfield) that would involve bringing Bruno deeper into midfield to play like an #8, something that Portugal do. But in that case, you sacrifice much of the output of a player who's only been matched in numbers by Harry Kane since he arrived. It sounds counter-productive.
The sad thing is, your first paragrpah could have been this summer almost and take out VDB last summer as well takin gaway the free transfer part.
I personally think even without those players leaving we shoudl hav ebeen signing TWO central midfielders this summer. As great as our three signings are this window on paper, I still feel the failure to buy no central midfielder will be very costly at times this season. Ive not seen Tchouameni at all to even comment, but I expect he is one of an easy 4 or 5 prospective signings we could have made that would have made a big difference to the balance of our side this summer. I cant believe nobody went full on for Kamara, wish Wolves got him, as I think he could have been one to have a big season in the premisership and have the big sides like ourselves in for him next summer
Doesn’t Ole already do this when he plays Pogba on the left with McFred in the pivot?
Neither those player is playing as AMC also. They are on the wing.
Yep. And its not Pogba's fault, his skillset is just not suited to being a deeper CM like many other players like Gerrard or even Bruno for example.
Playing brilliantly in "fast paced PL" against sides like Leeds and Southampton recently though. So sick of this false narrative.
He has a problem with playing deeper, because he doesnt know when to release the ball. He doesnt have this problem playing higher up the pitch. Nothing to do with speed of international football, he has had brilliant games in PL before.
that’s not in central midfield. a big difference. we’re talking about him playing CM for france and why he looks better.
it’s purely down to international football being a lot slower.
Not particularly, they play as LM or RM respectively but help centrally too. Here's the heatmaps of Tchouameni, Rabiot and Pogba from yesterday.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1516133/Live/International-FIFA-World-Cup-2021-2022-Ukraine-France
If that doesn't look a midfield trio then I don't know what does. Look how Rabiot actually had more touches in his own box than Pogba or Tchouameni or how much he helped in the middle of the park. The only area he didn't go to much is right midfield because Tchouameni was there. If Rabiot didn't play as CM, then Tchouameni didn't either. It was the same when Matuidi played.
Obviously those are the only indications we ever have.You mean media indications
Nothing whatsoever from our camp
I dont think its about the pace of the league. He has proven himself time and time again in Premier League. Its about his position like you said. Losing the ball higher up the pitch is mostly inconsequential. Pogba is not press resistant, and loses the ball. Nothing to do with the pace of PL/International football. Its more to do with decision making.
that’s why he loses it because he’s pressed faster, they’re connected. international football he gets time to control the ball and turn, in england they’re smashing you before you take 2 touches.
his decision making and the way he plays is literally no different.
No we need a midfielder as well - we should simply try to release / sell every player not needed in the next 12 months and go all in for Haaland and Rice and we have a team that is as close to complete as we have had for over 10 years.
You obviously get less time on the ball when you're closer to the opp goal. Pogba does fine there in the PL.
What are you on about now? we are talking about playing in central midfield. He is no closer for France or United in the same position
What about Bruno-Donny-McTominay midfiled until next summer, does it work
Prolly not Donny playing as a #8 but we won’t know unless we try it and Donny isn’t going to start unless one or both of Fred and Pogba are injured.
True. So it's nothing to do with Bruno as SS, but one of our wing should be the one doing defensive duty.Not particularly, they play as LM or RM respectively but help centrally too. Here's the heatmaps of Tchouameni, Rabiot and Pogba from yesterday.
https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1516133/Live/International-FIFA-World-Cup-2021-2022-Ukraine-France
If that doesn't look a midfield trio then I don't know what does. Look how Rabiot actually had more touches in his own box than Pogba or Tchouameni or how much he helped in the middle of the park. The only area he didn't go to much is right midfield because Tchouameni was there. If Rabiot didn't play as CM, then Tchouameni didn't either. It was the same when Matuidi played.
I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion.
First off what do you mean by winger? Because if LM and RM are wingers, we don’t play with wingers. We play with inverted forwards (Greenwood, Rashford, Martial etc). Rashford as LW is completely different from Rabiot as LM. Different player skill set, different position, different role.
I don’t think I need to explain how Rashford or Greenwood being on the wing (as inverted forwards) would not be offering the same level of defensive cover as Matuidi or Rabiot in midfield. And you can’t ask them to play as midfielders they are not the right players for that. They are forwards first and foremost, not midfielders. It’s far more rational to ask a midfielder like Bruno (an #8 most of his career) to play like an #8, than to ask forwards to play like midfielders. If you want your wingers to be midfielders you’d have to change both tactics and personnel, like France did.
We play 4-2-3-1. France play mostly 4-3-3 and occasionally 4-4-2 or 3-4-3. In other words we play with only 2 MFs whereas France always have 3 and sometimes 4 players in midfield. So the problem is very much with how we set up as a team and the number of forward players we commit. Last game for 30-odd minutes we had Martial-Cavani-Greenwood and Bruno behind them, on the pitch. Pogba and Fred in CM. With the freedom Bruno had, that was for all intents and purposes a 4-2-4 formation. You never see France with Martial-Benzema-Mbappe up front and Griezmann as #10/SS, all on the pitch at the same time. That is in essence what we do in most of our games.
That of course makes it very easy for the opposition to cut through our midfield. It doesn’t matter how good the players in your midfield are they will get outnumbered in a counter. Tchouameni won’t solve that. Especially next to Pogba who isn’t a DM. If you don’t want to sacrifice Bruno or a winger, then you always run the risk of your midfield being overrun or getting caught.
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Like it has been explained countless times, United and France set up very differently, and even wrt to Pogba. My point however was, you get even lesser time playing higher up the pitch closer to opposition goal, than in CM. Pogba does fine there in PL, so its not about "the pace of PL".
This part is true. Most people assume that if we replace Fred with defensive midfielder it will solve our issue but it's just not going to happen. Our wide forwads just dont do enough when it comes to defending and we have been overrun even when we have played with Fred and Scott in midfield who are more defensive minded than any combination with Pogba.
This issue will become even more prominent when we play Ronaldo on the wing position. It will essentially mean Bruno has to play much deeper on right side and Pogba has to cover left side to account for Ronaldo not tracking back. Whoever plays on the other side of the pitch as forward has to help out in defense much more than what our wide forwards have been doing.
It’s also why McFred is Ole’s go to in midfield. Because in that 4-2-3-1 the two CMs at the base better have legs. They will have to cover a lot of ground and recover very quickly when possession is turned over. It’s also why Matic is unsuitable and looks inept in that formation.
The tactical benefits of playing Pogba in the 2 are outweighed by the risks, which is why he played LM/LW most of last season. Which also felt like playing a 4-3-3 France-style and restored more balance to the midfield than having Rashford the LW.
I honestly don’t know how we will play with Ronaldo. Will he be a #9 or play as a second striker with Cavani/Greenwood being the other. He hasn’t played as a winger for ages though, so that’s the last thing I expect to see.
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Sancho played on english soil before is having difficulties to settle in a new team, so I am not suprised Donny need some time but he didnt get that run of games last year.
Difficult to judge him based on his last year performances
We could have got him for 30M in this summer window but now we will see his price going up to 50M next year and facing lot of competion too
That's a weird conclusion to draw .. they're playing a CM on the wing because they need the additional cover. It's effectively saying drop Rashford / Sancho and play Fred there instead.
The natural solution is to play Pogba on the left in the Rabiot role above which is what we do.
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