Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!

[cyberman]

Not necessarily.

He did not say its to ensure decisions are in their favor. Its to ensure decisions are neutral.

But it says it was to make sure arbitration rulings didn’t go against them?

 

[Slevs]

But it says it was to make sure arbitration rulings didn’t go against them?

He'll clarify that he meant "decisions didn't go against them unfairly, and all that decision making was neutral and not biased".

 

[RoyH1]

15k fine incoming

How do dare you fine Barcelona? I'll have you know they're more than a club.

 

[cyberman]

He'll clarify that he meant "decisions didn't go against them unfairly, and all that decision making was neutral and not biased".

But then he’s saying it was biased before that?
the man has a massive tax bill after this and will face jail time, he has no reason to lie now.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Oh I wouldn't suggest that they've been buying league titles, but honestly... it doesn't really matter what the ultimate intention was, or the result. Just the payments in themselves are shady as feck.

Also the defence of some on here showing videos of refs in other games is absolutely laughable.

Please note this is the one we know about. How certain can we be that a club which does this only does it once and only with this guy?

I would speculate that this guy looks like the go between/ fixer.

 

[Slevs]

But then he’s saying it was biased before that?
the man has a massive tax bill after this and will face jail time, he has no reason to lie now.

Unless someone pays his massive tax bill for him :P

 

[Niemans]

Oh I wouldn't suggest that they've been buying league titles, but honestly... it doesn't really matter what the ultimate intention was, or the result. Just the payments in themselves are shady as feck.

Also the defence of some on here showing videos of refs in other games is absolutely laughable.

The videos are proof that in certain moments where Barcelona do not whistle a penalty against the team was harmed and not favored as the media say handled by the puppets of Florentino Pérez.

The whole story comes from them. Yesterday doing specials on television García Ferreras and Josep Pedrerol. His 2 biggest puppets.

You announce the creation of the superliga and Florentino is going to announce it to the Chiringuito , Pedrerol's program. How they are going to take you seriously presenting the super league in that program??

 

[BerryBerryShrew]

Niemans right now:

 

[Niemans]

Iturralde Gonzalez. Referee 1995-2012.

Marca

Iturralde González: "When I entered the arbitration they told me that you do not become a referee until you collide with the white bus".

"In the CTA they are calm because they agree with the referee in all decisions, knowing what happens. Many times you laugh when I tell you that I was told when I entered the arbitration a phrase, which is that you do not become a referee until you collide with the white bus. And today it has been demonstrated, and yesterday it was demonstrated, that even in the success look at the one that has been mounted. In the right way," said Iturralde.

 

[Niemans]

Niemans right now:

A great Leslie Nielsen, I really enjoyed his movies when I was little.

 

[Niemans]

Article by Rubén Uria, one of the best journalists in Spain.

Aquí.

For three years, a group of journalists -it is a generous euphemism- more and more numerous, has launched a crusade that places Real Madrid as a victim of the referees. His proposal consists of petty debates where the audience rules and where it is cheap to throw the stone while hiding the hand. Where the sewer sells more than rigor, Barça is accused of having the favor of the referees. The curious thing is that, despite hours and hours of unbearable gatherings, the crusaders of the conspiracy still have not provided a single proof that the referees row in favor of Barça. To this day, no one has been able to prove that Victoriano Sánchez Arminio, a bad manager, was a player, member, supporter or director of the Barcelona Football Club.

It must be frustrating for the media puppets who write and speak at the dictation of their master( Florentino Perez, in case some clueless person does not know who he is referring to) , who have not yet been able to certify that the Spaniard has or has had links with Barça, an alleged arbitration protégé. On the other hand, the newspaper archive of the newspapers of the time, added to the archive of the magnificent historian Bernardo Salazar, reflects a very different reality: a necessary and hygienic reality that unequivocally concludes the record of the National College of Referees. Come and read:

Alfonso Albéniz Jordana, first president of the National College of Arbitrators. He was a Real Madrid player (1911-12), a member from 1912 and also a director of the Chamartín club for eight years, from 1913 to 1921.


Carlos Dieste Vega, second president of the National College of Arbitrators. Real Madrid player in the 1914-15 campaign and later merengue manager from 1914 to 1921.

Luis Colina Álvarez, third president of the National College of Referees, after its refoundation due to a serious crisis. (1924-26). Don Luis was a director of Real Madrid 1919-20 and at the time, a member and supporter of the Madrid club.

Antonio de Cárcer, fourth president of the CNA (1926-28). Partner of Real Madrid and also a manager. His brother Juan was the first coach of Real Madrid and his brother Fernando, vice president of the Santiago Bernabéu in the forties.

Luis Iglesias Gracia, fifth president of the CNA (July 1928). He barely lasted two months in office, being an interim president who barely made decisions.

Julián Ruete Muniesa, sixth president of the CNA (September 1928-November 1928). Only two months in office. He was a player for Real Madrid (1904-10) and Atlético (1910-11), secretary of the merengue board and also became President of Atlético de Madrid (1912-23).

Alfonso Albéniz Jordana, seventh president of the CNA (1928-29). He returned to the position to be the first president of the first edition of the professional League. He was a player (1911-12), a partner (since 1912) and also a director of Real Madrid (1913-21).

Antonio de Cárcer y Disdier, eighth president of the CNA (1930-36). Once again, he was once again the highest referee, as in 1926. He was a partner and manager of Real Madrid, as well as the brother of the Madrid club's first coach.

Eulogio Aranguren Labairu, ninth president (1939-46). After the Civil War, the Central Committee of Referees was created, with Don Eulogio being its president. He was a Real Madrid player, a member since 1911 and also vice-president of the Spanish Football Federation.

Manuel Álvarez Corriols, tenth president (1946). Former referee of the Castilian Federation. Barely eleven months in office. No known "colors".

Emilio Suárez Marcelo, eleventh president (1947). He only spent a year in office, but before reaching the armchair he was a member of Real Madrid since 1922 and also a prominent member of the Organizing Committee for the Golden Wedding Anniversary and the White Club's Economic Commission.

Ramón Echarren Sanzmagaray, twelfth president (1947-48). From the College of Referees of Navarra. It was said that he was a partner and supporter of Osasuna. He held office for a single campaign.

Pedro Escartín Morán, thirteenth president (1948-51). Former referee of the Colegio Castellano. His term lasted up to three years. He was a player for the Royal Gymnastics Society, although he always confessed privately that he was a fan of Real Madrid. He received an offer from Barça to be technical secretary, but due to his merengue status, he declined it. Later he was a writer, journalist and chronicler, among others for the newspaper "Marca".

Luis Saura del Pan, fourteenth president (1951-52). He came to the referee's chair after having played for Real Madrid for nine years and having been registered as a Real Madrid member for almost 50 years, since 1905. Don Luis, a lifetime linked to Real Madrid, was also President of the Spanish Football Federation.

Eulogio Aranguren Labairu, fifteenth president (1952-53). He commanded the arbitration estate for 11 months. He came to the position after being a Real Madrid player for ten years (1911-21), apart from being a partner since 1911.

Emilio Álvarez Pérez, sixteenth president (1953-56). There is hardly any documentation referring to this president of the CNA. Nivario de la Cruz Hernández, seventeenth president (September 1956-November 1961). A former referee for the Castilian Federation, he never hid his friendship with members of the Real Madrid board of directors, such as Muñoz Lusarreta.

Manuel Asensi Martín, eighteenth president (1961-67). Former referee of the Castilian Federation, attached to the Valencian College, he came to whistle in Fairs Cup matches and international competitions, such as the 1954 World Cup.

José Plaza, nineteenth president (1967 to 1970). He resigned out of solidarity with Guruceta, that referee challenged by Barcelona after having whistled a penalty in favor of Madrid that was two meters outside the area. Plaza was the great "patriarch" of arbitration. In addition, this phrase is imputed to him: "While I am president, Barça will not be league champions." Plaza denied these words over and over again. He was a former referee for the Castilian Federation, but played for the Real Madrid subsidiary, Plus
Ultra.

José Fernández de la Torre, twentieth president (1970). He came to office after belonging to the Andalusian College and after the resignations of Plaza, De la Fuente and Morales were accepted. He was also president of the FAF Coaches School since 1949. From 1960 he was adviser to the National Committee of Referees.

Juan Francisco Pardo Hidalgo, twenty-first president (1971-72). Former referee of the Castilian Federation. He advocated for professionalism, for putting a "cap" on the age of the referees and for stopping the clubs in their "recusals" to various referees.

José Plaza, twenty-second president (1972-1990). After resigning due to the "Guruceta case", he returned to office. Plaza was a former referee for the Castilian Federation and previously played for the Real Madrid subsidiary, Plus Ultra.

Fernando de Andrés Merino, twenty-third president (1990). He was president of the Management Board of the arbitrators. He became famous when he claimed to be unaware of the fact that Barcelona did not win when he was refereed by Ramos Marcos, a referee whose information file was opened for commenting on a Barça-Real Madrid match for Telemadrid. Linked to the Territorial Committee of Referees of Castilla y León.

Pedro Sánchez Sanz, twenty-fourth president (1990-93). Elected by the Central Board, although the Supreme Court annulled his election by a judicial order of 1992. He was the beneficiary of the "mysterious" resignation of the Catalan collegiate Albert Giménez, who withdrew his candidacy for the presidency. Sánchez Sanz acceded to the position "by hand", having whistled only in the Regional Preference, to later take the "big leap" and be an informant for the CNTA and become a member of the Madrid College of Referees in 1984, as reported by the ABC newspaper in 1991.

(*) The position was also held by Arturo López Espinosa-the twenty-fifth president-, but on an interim basis. Don Arturo was a member of Real Madrid.

For a century, 26 presidencies decided who and how they should arbitrate in Spain, applying the system of "fingercracy". An overwhelming majority of those presidents came to those positions after being players, partners or managers of Real Madrid. Masks out.

For madridistas and anti-Barcelona to read this. It seems, it just seems that when you give information that doesn't go with their story then they ignore the information.

 

[carvajal]

The videos are proof that in certain moments where Barcelona do not whistle a penalty against the team was harmed and not favored as the media say handled by the puppets of Florentino Pérez.

The whole story comes from them. Yesterday doing specials on television García Ferreras and Josep Pedrerol. His 2 biggest puppets.

You announce the creation of the superliga and Florentino is going to announce it to the Chiringuito , Pedrerol's program. How they are going to take you seriously presenting the super league in that program??

There are extremely exaggerated payments, a burofax from Negreira threatening Barcelona to pull out all the shit, outflows of 200,000 euros in cash (let's see what comes out of it) and an exorbitant arbitration balance.
Today they say that Barcelona(like many other teams) have a former referee for advisory duties and he earns 25000 a year!
The story comes from el Mundo, Pedrerol had no idea, and limited himself to making a special programme.

 

[WeePat]

Niemans right now:

 

[Niemans]

If someone calls you a horse, you call them a jerk, if a second person call you a horse, you punch them in the mouth, if a third person calls you a horse, well, you better go buy yourself a saddle...

...or get @Niemans to defend you in Farca's case.

I give information that refutes the arguments that are given. If someone wants to know the reality you only have to see the matches of Barcelona and Madrid of the 2016-17 season.

Do not listen to me or those who think otherwise but watch the games.

But people won't do it because they don't care in the slightest and they're too lazy. He will just let him take his feelings towards that team, make memes or troll. People arguing when they don't watch a single Spanish league game.

 

[GatoLoco]

At times I wonder if some Barcelona fans showing this whataboutism attitude (I am thinking of Mister Seitan) are not actually harming their club more than they are helping it.

Yesterday I saw a Youtuber Barcelona fan who is ashamed of this kind of behavior because he thought it was against the interests of the club that fans did not demand immediate explanations from all parties involved instead of trying to hide the Sun with one of their fingers.

The story comes from el Mundo, Pedrerol had no idea, and limited himself to making a special programme.

And the original story actually comes from Cadena Ser Barcelona, but who cares where it comes from. The documents speak for themselves and all the international media are speaking about this. If anything we should ask ourselves why a great part of Catalan media are hesitant to inform given the seriousness of the information that has emerged.

 

[Robertd0803]

Not necessarily.

He did not say its to ensure decisions are in their favor. Its to ensure decisions are neutral.

But thats still influencing the actual decision is it not? Regardless of who benefitted?

Like if he was paid by Barca to make sure all the decisions went against Barca (stupid as that sounds) does that make paying him in such dodgy circumstances ok because Barca didnt benefit?

If hes being paid to ensure decisions are neutral then isnt that his actual job anyway? And why would Barca need to pay him for that?

 

[Niemans]

There are extremely exaggerated payments, a burofax from Negreira threatening Barcelona to pull out all the shit, outflows of 200,000 euros in cash (let's see what comes out of it) and an exorbitant arbitration balance.
Today they say that Barcelona(like many other teams) have a former referee for advisory duties and he earns 25000 a year!
The story comes from el Mundo, Pedrerol had no idea, and limited himself to making a special programme.

But I've been saying exactly the same thing. I said it in a post several days ago already. I agree that it is strange and if rules have been broken, they should be punished with the greatest harshness.


What I discuss and will discuss to the death were things that you have put, for example, that you have insinuated that Barcelona have been favored because they have not been awarded a penalty in the 16-17 season. When Real Madrid won the league that year by a three-point difference and was greatly favored by refereeing errors and Barcelona was greatly harmed.

And I put videos and images of that season with the errors. I just rebutted that because it's not true. And whoever has an interest in the subject should watch the Barcelona and Real Madrid matches this season.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

For madridistas and anti-Barcelona to read this. It seems, it just seems that when you give information that doesn't go with their story then they ignore the information.

I'm seeing a lot of very flimsy comments about some chairmen that you think somehow prove they were in Real Madrid's pocket, from an article written by an Atletico supporter who spends a lot of time writing stories about Barcelona.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

And I put videos and images of that season with the errors.

Anyone can dismiss these videos and images because we have no way of knowing if they are an accurate reflection of the whole balance of the season. It is cherrypicking.

 

[Niemans]

I'm seeing a lot of very flimsy comments about some chairmen that you think somehow prove they were in Real Madrid's pocket, from an article written by an Atletico supporter who spends a lot of time writing stories about Barcelona.

What you have said is an Ad Hominem as big as Everest.
You must refute their information, not who it comes from.

 

[Niemans]

Anyone can dismiss these videos and images because we have no way of knowing if they are an accurate reflection of the whole balance of the season. It is cherrypicking.

Well, look for the videos of that game and put your own images, it's that easy to counteract that information.

What happens is that this takes a long time and it is easier to deny it just because. I lived through that season and the indignation I had for those mistakes was enormous, which is why I remember many of them.

The arbitration errors occurred and that's it. Madrid won the League and nothing happens, they are congratulated, period. In my case, the important thing is to enjoy football. But that people come above to misrepresent and manipulate reality and deny the undeniable... I do not accept that.

 

[ShareEndorphins]

A great Leslie Nielsen, I really enjoyed his movies when I was little.

Which movie is that?

 

[golden_blunder]

Niemans right now:

 

[Niemans]

By the way, here from what I see there are people with very thin skin. The crystal generation they call I suppose. For more than a year they have said many things to me and not pleasant ones, I take it with humor and I have responded without disrespect.

But someone reported me for something and I have a ban warning for a few days, some will be happy because apparently I'm a bot .

From now on I am also going to start reporting disrespect so that there is equality.

 

[Rooney in Paris]

Niemans right now:

 

[Niemans]

Which movie is that?

The Naked Gun: From the Files of Police Squad!

 

[Niemans]

Niemans right now:

Fixed

 

[carvajal]

But I've been saying exactly the same thing. I said it in a post several days ago already. I agree that it is strange and if rules have been broken, they should be punished with the greatest harshness.


What I discuss and will discuss to the death were things that you have put, for example, that you have insinuated that Barcelona have been favored because they have not been awarded a penalty in the 16-17 season. When Real Madrid won the league that year by a three-point difference and was greatly favored by refereeing errors and Barcelona was greatly harmed.

And I put videos and images of that season with the errors. I just rebutted that because it's not true. And whoever has an interest in the subject should watch the Barcelona and Real Madrid matches this season.

That's what some referees have said, that Barcelona may have overestimated Negreira's influence and that he was cheating them or other youtubers who say that Barça didn't know very well what they were paying for, "Bartomeu's stuff", but I don't think it will change much, especially when it has been done for so many years.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

What you have said is an Ad Hominem as big as Everest.
You must refute their information, not who it comes from.

Oh, well aren't you a sweet little condescending scamp?

I have refuted it, if you read the words I've typed. I've refuted it by saying the links he's making are circumstantial at best and his own bias shines through. It's quite important to note that when we're talking about journalists.

The bit about who they are was directed at you. You've taken an Atleti fan who does puff pieces for Barca as your idea of one of Spain's best journalists. Of course you'd think that, because you're so far up Laporta's ass you might as well be the same person.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Well, look for the videos of that game and put your own images, it's that easy to counteract that information.

Barcelona went into the last game of the 2016/2017 season 3 points behind Real Madrid, but with better head-to-head results. Had Real Madrid lost, and Barcelona won, the latter would have been champions.

Barcelona found themselves down 0-2 by minute 61.

Then they awarded a penalty for this (you have to click on the link to see the video).


Messi missed the penalty.

Anyone who sees that video, ask yourself why this was not included in Niemans' post about Barcelona being unfairly treated in 16/17.

Barcelona were granted another penalty in the same match, for a clear dive by Neymar. This one they did score. They won the game 4-2. You can see that one here:

 

[Lemoor]

That's what some referees have said, that Barcelona may have overestimated Negreira's influence and that he was cheating them or other youtubers who say that Barça didn't know very well what they were paying for, "Bartomeu's stuff", but I don't think it will change much, especially when it has been done for so many years.

It was all a Madrid conspiracy to make Barcelona use their money inefficiently!

 

[FreckBarca]

Luis Bassat is a very important Spanish publicist. His wikipedia page . He was born in Barcelona, he directed the opening ceremony of the 1992 Olympic Games of Barcelona and was candidate for the Barca presidency twice, in 2000 and 2003 (the period in which the ref payments started). He failed both times.


He gave an interview that you can read in Spanish here after losing the presidency elections against Laporta. In this interview he confesses the following:


“Mal, pero también liberado porque [...] he visto cosas que dicen que hay que hacer a las que ya no tendré que enfrentarme”.

P. ¿Qué cosas?

R. Por ejemplo, que me viniera una persona muy importante del club y me dijera: “¿Y tú cómo quieres ser presidente, si hay muchas cosas que no sabes?”. Yo contesté que hasta el momento me había defendido bien: “¿Qué es lo que no sé?”. Y me soltó: “Por ejemplo, cómo se compra a un árbitro”.



Translation:
"(I am feeling) Bad, but also liberated because [...] I have seen things that they say that I have to do that I will no longer have to deal with."

Q. What things?

A. For example, that a very important person from the club came to me and said: "And how do you want to be president, if there are many things you don't know?" What is it that I don't know?" And he answered me: "For example, how to bribe a referee."

 

[Niemans]

Barcelona went into the last game of the 2016/2017 season 3 points behind Real Madrid, but with better head-to-head results. Had Real Madrid lost, and Barcelona won, the latter would have been champions.

Barcelona found themselves down 0-2 by minute 61.

Then they awarded a penalty for this (you have to click on the link to see the video).


Messi missed the penalty.

Anyone who sees that video, ask yourself why this was not included in Niemans' post about Barcelona being unfairly treated in 16/17.

Barcelona were granted another penalty in the same match, for a clear dive by Neymar. This one they did score. They won the game 4-2. You can see that one here:

Videos cannot be viewed. But you haven't commented on the plays I've put in. All of them. That those plays have much more influence on points than the 2 that you have put.

 

[giorno]

Can't believe people are still arguing Pepe/Alves was not an obvious red card offense. What an awful challenge.

As a madrid fan yeah, i agree. Clear red. Took me a few months to get over it at the time, but nothing to complain now. It's why Bayern fans complaining about the ref in '17 makes me smile too, with a competent ref bayern play the whole game down a man(Vidal attempting to collect Isco's foot as a trophy) and we win 6-0, and we avoid the clusterfeck that followed

As for the current investigation, it's bad. Really bad. And also not surprising. I've followed the league for close to 30 years now and there have been several seasons where I got the impression that the refs were clearly influencing results a certain way, sometimes for us, sometimes for them, a couple times for Depor and Valencia, Atleti got the push two years ago as well. It's Spanish football basically. Wouldn't surprise me if something similar came up with us involved - well it would because Florentino is powerful, but yeah, you get my point

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

Videos cannot be viewed. But you haven't commented on the plays I've put in. All of them. That those plays have much more influence on points than the 2 that you have put.

 

[Iker Quesadillas]

But you haven't commented on the plays I've put in. All of them.

I don't need to. My argument is that you are deliberately misleading everyone by selectively posting incidents.

I have proven this to be true by uncovering this absolutely shameless incident that you selectively excluded from your posts.

 

[Niemans]

2013-14 season.

Last league match.

Barcelona versus Atlético de Madrid at the Camp Nou. If Barcelona wins it is league champion, otherwise it is Atlético de Madrid.

The match goes 1-1 in the second half. And they cancel a legal goal to Messi, with that goal Barcelona would have been champion of the League.

Messi goal.

The ball came from an Atletico Madrid player, that's why there is no offside.

 

[Niemans]

I don't need to. My argument is that you are deliberately misleading everyone by selectively posting incidents.

I have proven this to be true by uncovering this absolutely shameless incident that you selectively excluded from your posts.

By saying you don't need to, you're refusing to know the reality of what happened. You don't want to see those plays because you know I'm right and its true. Otherwise you would be happy to throw it in my face.

Well, look for the videos of that game and put your own images, it's that easy to counteract that information.

What happens is that this takes a long time and it is easier to deny it just because. I lived through that season and the indignation I had for those mistakes was enormous, which is why I remember many of them.

You just proved me right in what I put earlier.

 

[Amarsdd]

When will we get to the defense of "our old president did it so it's not Barca's fault"?

 

[Niemans]

When will we get to the defense of "our old president did it so it's not Barca's fault"?

Everyone will say it until that reaches Núñez, who is dead and cannot speak.