Cristiano Ronaldo - Much Ado About Al Nassr

FriedClams said:
I find it really strange belittling his international goals. Every European striker for a bigger nation has been able to play against the same teams, and no one is even close to him and likely never will be.
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Kane, Haaland, Lukaku have better per game ratios with the national team than Ronaldo (0.6 per game).
Lukaku scored more goals for Belgium than Pele, R9, Romario for Brazil, Batistuta for Argentina, the magic of Euro qualifiers.

Gerd Muller scored 68 goals in 62 games when there were no Andorra, Faroe, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, San Marino, Liechtenstein, former USSR teams and many other minnows.
 
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brunoag4 said:
Kane, Haaland, Lukaku have better per game ratios with the national team than Ronaldo (0.6 per game).
Lukaku scored more goals for Belgium than Pele, R9, Romario for Brazil, Batistuta for Argentina, the magic of Euro qualifiers.

Gerd Muller scored 68 goals in 62 games when there were no Andorra, Faroe, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, San Marino, Liechtenstein, former USSR teams and many other minnows.
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And none of them will ever outscore him internationally
 
FriedClams said:
And none of them will ever outscore him internationally
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And none of them will end their WC campaign with 0 goals in 8 knockouts in five World Cup tournaments. For Haaland, we need to wait though.
Not that hard to outscore anyone if you play hundred games more than the average player, that's why ratios matter.

Nobody really cares how many goals Mbappe scored against Gibraltar yesteday, Messi against Estonia or Pele/Gerd Muller in total.. But, people care about what they did in the WC, how they wrote history.
 
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Playing in South Africa helps him to relax more so he's more ready for National level.
It is finally paying divadents.
 
brunoag4 said:
And none of them will end their WC campaign with 0 goals in 8 knockouts in five World Cup tournaments. For Haaland, we need to wait though.
Not that hard to outscore anyone if you play hundred games more than the average player, that's why ratios matter.

Nobody really cares how many goals Mbappe scored against Gibraltar yesteday, Messi against Estonia or Pele/Gerd Muller in total.. But, people care about what they did in the WC, how they wrote history.
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So it's only the world cup that matters? Not the euros or the nations league?

Ok...
 
Andersonson said:
So it's only the world cup that matters? Not the euros or the nations league?

Ok...
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Nation's league means f all. It's just a recently made up new money making scheme tournament from UEFA trying to find a way to turn euro and WC qualifiers into a competition since no one cares about so many qualifying games usually. They still don't. Nation's league is just qualifiers.
 
JogaBonitoRooney said:
Nation's league means f all. It's just a recently made up new money making scheme tournament from UEFA trying to find a way to turn euro and WC qualifiers into a competition since no one cares about so many qualifying games usually. They still don't. Nation's league is just qualifiers.
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You only answered half of the questions. Only those who fit your agenda
 
Andersonson said:
You only answered half of the questions. Only those who fit your agenda
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How did I answer half? You mean because I didn't mention anything about the actual Euros? Yeah that's because Euros is actually a big international tournament that matters. I don't need to answer anything about it.

I'm not the person you originally responded to. I just get annoyed when people try to make nation's league a thing. It really isn't.
 
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Andersonson said:
So it's only the world cup that matters? Not the euros or the nations league?

Ok...
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-Ronaldo's 20 year-long international career in a nutshell-
0 Player of the Tournament award in an international tournament
0 goals in the World Cup knockouts
3 goals in 19 knockout games in five Euros and five World Cups

Goncalo Ramos had a hat-trick in his first World Cup knockout game with Portugal matching Ronaldo's 19 game World Cup+Euros knockout goals stat in a single game.
 
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brunoag4 said:
And none of them will end their WC campaign with 0 goals in 8 knockouts in five World Cup tournaments. For Haaland, we need to wait though.
Not that hard to outscore anyone if you play hundred games more than the average player, that's why ratios matter.

Nobody really cares how many goals Mbappe scored against Gibraltar yesteday, Messi against Estonia or Pele/Gerd Muller in total.. But, people care about what they did in the WC, how they wrote history.
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Playing a hundred games more than the average player also matters. A lot! That's why we celebrate Ryan Giggs. Yes, he didn't win much with Wales. But he played for a long time. It matters a lot. That's why nobody really cares about the highest ratio of goals per game, nobody mentions it.

Who is the player with the best ratio ever? Who knows? Who cares? But the most goals ever? Yeah, that will stay up there for a looooong time!
 
brunoag4 said:
Kane, Haaland, Lukaku have better per game ratios with the national team than Ronaldo (0.6 per game).
Lukaku scored more goals for Belgium than Pele, R9, Romario for Brazil, Batistuta for Argentina, the magic of Euro qualifiers.

Gerd Muller scored 68 goals in 62 games when there were no Andorra, Faroe, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, San Marino, Liechtenstein, former USSR teams and many other minnows.
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Ronaldo has scored around 50 more career goals since turning 30 than Lukaku has in his entire career
RaTiOs
 
Zehner said:
What has that to do with what he said?
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There are numbers, facts and figures that goes beyond trying to downplay them by adding random goalposts.
Lukaku is 30 now. It’s asking him to score all his career goals (plus 20 odd percent more) between now and 38 when his physical capabilities have fallen away. Also No shit someone’s ratio is slightly better at 30 before the significant drop off happens for feck sake.
Absolute nonsense. No wonder you’re involved though
 
cyberman said:
There are numbers, facts and figures that goes beyond trying to downplay them by adding random goalposts.
Lukaku is 30 now. It’s asking him to score all his career goals (plus 20 odd percent more) between now and 38 when his physical capabilities have fallen away. Also No shit someone’s ratio is slightly better at 30 before the significant drop off happens for feck sake.
Absolute nonsense. No wonder you’re involved though
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I got involved because you answered something conpletely out of context that had nothing to do with the argument you quoted.
 
cyberman said:
There are numbers, facts and figures that goes beyond trying to downplay them by adding random goalposts.
Lukaku is 30 now. It’s asking him to score all his career goals (plus 20 odd percent more) between now and 38 when his physical capabilities have fallen away. Also No shit someone’s ratio is slightly better at 30 before the significant drop off happens for feck sake.
Absolute nonsense. No wonder you’re involved though
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I think it has more to do with that its Lukkaku and not a generational talent. Still I think its petty to take stabs at Ronaldos longevity and records. Like everyone says, there is a reason why he has those records and others dont.
 
cyberman said:
Ronaldo has scored around 50 more career goals since turning 30 than Lukaku has in his entire career
RaTiOs
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Its 17 more to be exact (397 vs. 380), including 38 goals in 19 matches against Armenia, Andorra, Faroe Islands, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and New Zealand, 30 goals in Saudi Arabia and 56 penalty goals (Lukaku has 36), but whatever. Why make up numbers?
Ronaldo has played for dominant clubs his entire career, Lukaku has not. Yet their career non penalty goal ratio's are surprisingly close: Ronaldo 0,65 non penalty goals/90 - Lukaku 0,59 non penalty goals/90
Ronaldo has obviously been a much better player than Lukaku through out his career. That's not up for debate. He has been padding his stats nicely too, that's not up for debate either.

The Belgian has a more impressive ratio in WC, EURO and Nations League though (career numbers):

Ronaldo:
29 goals (6 penalties) in 58 games (4837 minutes)
0,54 goals/90
0,43 non penalty goals/90

Lukaku:
21 goals (3 penalties) in 31 games (2297 minutes)
0,82 goals/90
0,71 non penalty goals/90

All that said, I'd say Ronaldo has been in great goal scoring form this season, too bad he's wasting it in a very unbalanced and weak league and being the perfect sports washing tool.
 
Are we comparing Ronaldo with Lukaku now? Ffs people, why do we have to rely on ridiculous stats battle when we also have you know… eyes!
 
troylocker said:
Its 17 more to be exact (397 vs. 380), including 38 goals in 19 matches against Armenia, Andorra, Faroe Islands, Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Liechtenstein, Luxembourg and New Zealand, 30 goals in Saudi Arabia and 56 penalty goals (Lukaku has 36), but whatever. Why make up numbers?
Ronaldo has played for dominant clubs his entire career, Lukaku has not. Yet their career non penalty goal ratio's are surprisingly close: Ronaldo 0,65 non penalty goals/90 - Lukaku 0,59 non penalty goals/90
Ronaldo has obviously been a much better player than Lukaku through out his career. That's not up for debate. He has been padding his stats nicely too, that's not up for debate either.

The Belgian has a more impressive ratio in WC, EURO and Nations League though (career numbers):

Ronaldo:
29 goals (6 penalties) in 58 games (4837 minutes)
0,54 goals/90
0,43 non penalty goals/90

Lukaku:
21 goals (3 penalties) in 31 games (2297 minutes)
0,82 goals/90
0,71 non penalty goals/90

All that said, I'd say Ronaldo has been in great goal scoring form this season, too bad he's wasting it in a very unbalanced and weak league and being the perfect sports washing tool.
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Lukaku has played for Chelsea (x2) United and Inter?!
Edit Inter twice as well
 
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Andersonson said:
He has captained his country to 30/30 points in the qualifiers. Can't really do much else than applaud that.
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Well, you can also look at the group before applauding. Fecking Luxembourg is comfortably third:
cwSkdp7.png
 
Andersonson said:
If you dont watch enough football you can probably say its easy matches. But away to Bosnia, Slovakia and Iceland is never easy. 30/30 is impressive
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Ah yes, the good old "you probably don't watch enough football" argument. So deep and nuanced. Yes, Bosnia away, for example, is so hard Portugal was winning only 0-5 by halftime a month ago :lol:
 
brunoag4 said:
Kane, Haaland, Lukaku have better per game ratios with the national team than Ronaldo (0.6 per game).
Lukaku scored more goals for Belgium than Pele, R9, Romario for Brazil, Batistuta for Argentina, the magic of Euro qualifiers.

Gerd Muller scored 68 goals in 62 games when there were no Andorra, Faroe, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, San Marino, Liechtenstein, former USSR teams and many other minnows.
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Different eras though. There were basically less tactical awareness or defensive football back in those eras too.
 
RedRonaldo said:
Different eras though. There were basically less tactical awareness or defensive football back in those eras too.
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That is a wrong take, since there weren't more goals being scored when Gerd Müller was playing in comparison to now:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/269031/goals-scored-per-game-at-the-fifa-world-cup-since-1930/

I could also add, that strikers weren't as protected as they are now. Fact is that Gerd Müller scored at a higher ratio against way better teams than Ronaldo.
 
brunoag4 said:
Lukaku scored more goals for Belgium than Pele, R9, Romario for Brazil, Batistuta for Argentina, the magic of Euro qualifiers.
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That's not just the magic of Euro qualifiers. It's the magic of mathematics: there are more matches now.

Conmebol has the same issue. Half of the top 10 'highest goalscorers' there are currently active players, and they have all played in over 100 matches.
 
cyberman said:
Lukaku has played for Chelsea (x2) United and Inter?!
Edit Inter twice as well
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Are you saying that playing for United 03-09 (PL champions 3 times and CL champion 1 time (finalist 2 times) and had won the PL 8 out of the last 11 years before he arrived), Real Madrid 09-18 (the Galacticos, champions every 2nd year, scoring 100+ goals in LaLiga every season he was there, no club has more european trophies etc.) and Juventus 18-21 (won 7 straight scudettos before he arrived) is comparable to playing for Chelsea 21-22 (He had 0 starts for Chelsea in 11-12) comming off a 67 point season (scoring 58 goals total) in the PL and a fluky CL win, Inter (hadn't won a trophy in 10 years when he arrived) and us 17-19 (we haven't been even romotely close to dominate anything the last 10 years) ?
Lukaku scored 17 and assisted 7 in 2002 minutes in the PL for West Brom as a teenager, he scored 87 and assisted 29 in 4 seasons at Everton.

Ronaldo's numbers would look very different had he followed Lukaku's club path......How many goals would Ronaldo get in that West Brom team?
As great as he is, he's had the privilege of playing in some of the best and most dominating teams and squads in football history. That cannot be said for the clubs Lukaku's played for.

Lukaku is underrated, but I don't think he's anywhere near Ronaldo of course. Comparing their club careers and numbers is still silly though, because Lukaku's working conditions has been a lot tougher throughout his career. It is a bit funny that his numbers (goals/90 ratio) with the National team is so much better than Ronaldo's though.

Would be cool to see what Lukaku or Kane's numbers and legacies would look like if they were the main man at RM from 09-18....
 
Acrobat7 said:
That is a wrong take, since there weren't more goals being scored when Gerd Müller was playing in comparison to now:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/269031/goals-scored-per-game-at-the-fifa-world-cup-since-1930/

I could also add, that strikers weren't as protected as they are now. Fact is that Gerd Müller scored at a higher ratio against way better teams than Ronaldo.
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WC is really a small size sample for making such claim. Its like taking less than 0.1% of the total goals/games played back in those time, which makes it really negligible when we are comparing general stats of the games across eras.

Well obviously its difficult to compare how big the difference was between those past eras and now. But I have seen more strikers getting ridiculous high goal ratio back then as compared to modern times. I think this says something.
 
Andersonson said:
If you dont watch enough football you can probably say its easy matches. But away to Bosnia, Slovakia and Iceland is never easy. 30/30 is impressive
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Not if you're Portugal. In those three matches combined their goalkeeper had to make one save total. Goal difference 36-2, 9 clean sheets, 0 goals conceded away from home tells a story of a Q-group that was the opposite of hard. Probably one of the easiest Q-groups ever. The one game Ronaldo didn't play they won 9-0 against 3rd placed Luxembourg...

FIFA rankings and squad values ():
Portugal 6 (EUR 921M) - 15 players worth 40M or more, 23 players from the top 5 leagues, 14 players from giant clubs: City (3), Bayern (1), Barca (2), PSG (4), Liverpool (1), Man United (2) or Milan (1)... )
Slovakia 50 (EUR 167M) - 2 players worth 40M or more - 5 players playing in the top 5 leagues (including 2 backup keepers for Fulham and Newcastle) and only 2 starting players, 2 players from giant clubs: Napoli (1) and PSG (1).
Bosnia 63 (EUR 86M) - 4 player playing in the top 5 leagues, 1 player from big club: Milan (1)
Iceland 67 (EUR 40M) - 3 players playing in top 5 leagues, 0 players from big clubs.
Luxembourg 87 (EUR 30M) - 2 players playing in the top 5 leagues, 0 from big clubs.
Liechtenstein 200 (EUR 1M) - 0 players from top 5 leagues...

Job well done, but also expected.
 
RedRonaldo said:
WC is really a small size sample for making such claim. Its like taking less than 0.1% of the total goals/games played back in those time, which makes it really negligible when we are comparing general stats of the games across eras.

Well obviously its difficult to compare how big the difference was between those past eras and now. But I have seen more strikers getting ridiculous high goal ratio back then as compared to modern times. I think this says something.
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Sure, your gut feeling that strikers used to score more goals outweighs the official statistics I posted.
 
brunoag4 said:
-Ronaldo's 20 year-long international career in a nutshell-
0 Player of the Tournament award in an international tournament
0 goals in the World Cup knockouts
3 goals in 19 knockout games in five Euros and five World Cups

Goncalo Ramos had a hat-trick in his first World Cup knockout game with Portugal matching Ronaldo's 19 game World Cup+Euros knockout goals stat in a single game.
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What a ridiculous way to try and dismiss one of the world's best footballers of a lifetime :lol:
 
brunoag4 said:
Kane, Haaland, Lukaku have better per game ratios with the national team than Ronaldo (0.6 per game).
Lukaku scored more goals for Belgium than Pele, R9, Romario for Brazil, Batistuta for Argentina, the magic of Euro qualifiers.

Gerd Muller scored 68 goals in 62 games when there were no Andorra, Faroe, Gibraltar, Azerbaijan, San Marino, Liechtenstein, former USSR teams and many other minnows.
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Don't ask me what happened, but around 2011 something strange happened to international football. Messi and Ronaldo at the time were floating around the 25 goal mark for their nations, and the top scorer for nearly every nation was around the 50 mark. Then everyone started scoring nearly a goal a game, every big striker for every big nation just bucketing goals, Lukaku, Kane later on, Ronaldo and Messi themselves, Lewandowski, Mbappe now, Suarez, Cavani etc etc etc.

I don't know what changed I just remember observing this as it happened, did international opposition get worse or something? But yeah around 2011-12 all the big forwards for big nations started scoring a goal a game or near that, way better than they had previously been doing or their predecessors did.
 
Won't be remembered outside of Portugal as an international footballer of any legendary note, possibly not even the sublime note, or the excellent note, maybe in the very very good note and waved his hands around in the Euro 2016 final note.
 
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