Dismal Draw with Brentford | Backroom Hires | Chelsea & Liverpool Previews - United Hour Podcast

[Vault Dweller]

Nik(@Rood) and Imran(@Annihilate Now!) bring themselves to talk about a terrible performance away at Brentford in a game that United should have both won and lost. They also discuss goings on in the boardroom with Jason Wilcox seemingly on the way in, talk about the Southgate links, then preview United's next two games vs. Chelsea and Liverpool.



https://x.com/United_Hour/status/1769798233360835018?s=20

What were your thoughts on that then troops? Anyone at the game?

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Hope you guys enjoyed the episode! Any questions or thoughts for next time?

 

[Frank Grimes]

Using the international break as an excuse is straw clutching at it's finest, this team just has no character. We played really well less than 5 times this season. Awful team.

 

[Rood]

Using the international break as an excuse is straw clutching at it's finest, this team just has no character. We played really well less than 5 times this season. Awful team.

I don't even disagree really but just think it's a shame that any momentum from that epic cup win was immediately lost by the International break

 

[Frank Grimes]

I don't even disagree really but just think it's a shame that any momentum from that epic cup win was immediately lost by the International break

On the flip side we got players back and had our best bench in yonks (on paper at least).

Same players who weren't good enough 4 years ago are still starting games for us, that's our main problem.

 

[Amir]

People keep on talking about how an FA Cup win may save ETH, and I think that's terrible. Our manager's performance should not be judged over one match, good or bad. The FA Cup final is in the middle of May or so. By then, I'd expect United to know firmly if they want to keep him or not - and make moves to get someone else if they choose to replace him. We cannot wait until the season is over to make a decision because other clubs and other manager won't be waiting.

The one mitigating factor for INEOS is that they obviously want to do things right and put a structure in place, and that structure is just not going to be there within two months, so sticking to ETH might be the easiet choice.

As for ETH working with a structure, I'm actually interested in seeing that as well. The problem is that having that structure is not going to be some magic solution. It will take time. Even if we get the structure up and running until the next season starts - and that's a big If - it won't just transform the squad within a transfer window and get ETH the players he actually needs (rather than the ones he wanted and got so far).

So really, if we want to see ETH working with a sound structure, then giving him one more season might be pointless. It'll take some time to judge him once that structure is in place (and that's assuming we get the structure and people right!).

 

[Counterfactual]

Regarding the question about United winning a game at Old Trafford in extra time, does this count?

Cup Winners Cup
2 October 1991 First round
Second leg Athinaikos H 2–0 (a.e.t.) Hughes 109', McClair 111'

I only remember because I was there.

Always enjoy the podcast BTW.

 

[Rood]

Regarding the question about United winning a game at Old Trafford in extra time, does this count?

Cup Winners Cup
2 October 1991 First round
Second leg Athinaikos H 2–0 (a.e.t.) Hughes 109', McClair 111'

I only remember because I was there.

Always enjoy the podcast BTW.

Yes! I knew I could rely on the collective knowledge of RedCafe to answer the question

I was at the Atletico Madrid game next round but didn't go to that one and completely forgot it happened

 

[Rood]

People keep on talking about how an FA Cup win may save ETH, and I think that's terrible. Our manager's performance should not be judged over one match, good or bad. The FA Cup final is in the middle of May or so. By then, I'd expect United to know firmly if they want to keep him or not - and make moves to get someone else if they choose to replace him. We cannot wait until the season is over to make a decision because other clubs and other manager won't be waiting.

The one mitigating factor for INEOS is that they obviously want to do things right and put a structure in place, and that structure is just not going to be there within two months, so sticking to ETH might be the easiet choice.

As for ETH working with a structure, I'm actually interested in seeing that as well. The problem is that having that structure is not going to be some magic solution. It will take time. Even if we get the structure up and running until the next season starts - and that's a big If - it won't just transform the squad within a transfer window and get ETH the players he actually needs (rather than the ones he wanted and got so far).

So really, if we want to see ETH working with a sound structure, then giving him one more season might be pointless. It'll take some time to judge him once that structure is in place (and that's assuming we get the structure and people right!).

All valid points, but for me winning a cup is enough to get more time. I thought LvG was hard done by (the decision was clearly made before the final that season) and the FA Cup saved Fergie's job back in the day.

Still I'm sure INEOS are looking closely at other options already and more pathetic performances like this Brentford will seal his fate.

I'm also hopeful that better decision making in the boardroom can already make a positive impact with the summer window. But it is frustrating that the likes of Berrada, Ashworth, Wilcox can not officially start work immediately

 

[Amir]

All valid points, but for me winning a cup is enough to get more time. I thought LvG was hard done by (the decision was clearly made before the final that season) and the FA Cup saved Fergie's job back in the day.

Fergie was a one-off in so many ways, so I'd avoid the comparisons.

As for winning the FA Cup, what if we get to the final, play City, play well, and lose to a last-minute dubious penalty? Or the other way around - win with a last-minute dubious penalty?

Does the first scenario means he loses his job because he hasn't done well enough while the second keeps him at his job because he has done well enough? Is that really a good way to measure a manager's performance?

I hope and expect whoever is in charge takes a far deeper look into his performance, and it should be about all 38 PL matches and 6 CL matches as well, plus other things.

 

[Rood]

Fergie was a one-off in so many ways, so I'd avoid the comparisons.

As for winning the FA Cup, what if we get to the final, play City, play well, and lose to a last-minute dubious penalty? Or the other way around - win with a last-minute dubious penalty?

Does the first scenario means he loses his job because he hasn't done well enough while the second keeps him at his job because he has done well enough? Is that really a good way to measure a manager's performance?

I hope and expect whoever is in charge takes a far deeper look into his performance, and it should be about all 38 PL matches and 6 CL matches as well, plus other things.

Winning a cup isnt just about 1 match though, obviously the highlight of this run is going to be the ET win Vs the Scousers and it's fair to say wins over Newport/Coventry arent anything to get excited about.
Ten Hag did manage 2 cup finals and 1 trophy last season so it would show some kind of winning mentality at the very least.


INEOS will likely take a deeper look at all factors than just base it on a cup or CL qualification but there will always be some kind of targets to be met. Also it's not clear if Ten Hag would fit their ideal structure since we are told that he wants a big say on transfers and it looks likely that INEOS want to go in a different direction.

 

[Amir]

Winning a cup isnt just about 1 match though, obviously the highlight of this run is going to be the ET win Vs the Scousers and it's fair to say wins over Newport/Coventry arent anything to get excited about.

But if people say that we should keep him in case we win the FA Cup, it does put a huge emphasis on that one match - the final. I mean, what happens if we lose the final? Should we not keep him then, as we didn't win the cup?

INEOS will likely take a deeper look at all factors than just base it on a cup or CL qualification but there will always be some kind of targets to be met. Also it's not clear if Ten Hag would fit their ideal structure since we are told that he wants a big say on transfers and it looks likely that INEOS want to go in a different direction.

I don't think we're at a stage in which targets should be met in terms of a cup win or a league place. We're at a stage where we need to see a clear style and progress, something to give us a reason to believe we're on the right path and that continuing the same way will take us where we want to go.

I can be OK with keeping a manager who finishes sixth, or let go of a manager who finishes third or fourth.

If we're not heading to the right place, picking up a cup along the way is great for the club. But a few good games in a cup competition, when we've also had a huge number of shit games in other competitions, is not a reason to keep a manager.

 

[Rood]

But if people say that we should keep him in case we win the FA Cup, it does put a huge emphasis on that one match - the final. I mean, what happens if we lose the final? Should we not keep him then, as we didn't win the cup?



I don't think we're at a stage in which targets should be met in terms of a cup win or a league place. We're at a stage where we need to see a clear style and progress, something to give us a reason to believe we're on the right path and that continuing the same way will take us where we want to go.

I can be OK with keeping a manager who finishes sixth, or let go of a manager who finishes third or fourth.

If we're not heading to the right place, picking up a cup along the way is great for the club. But a few good games in a cup competition, when we've also had a huge number of shit games in other competitions, is not a reason to keep a manager.

At this point, there aren't many that would strongly argue that he has to stay if he wins the cup - it's more a case of it's the ONLY thing that might save his job as it's looking more and more likely that he will not be here next season.

Also noted a few times on the pod that generally when new owners come in, they soon replace the manager with someone of their own choosing.

The only other question is always about how much of this season's problems is down to the manager and how much is down to failures above him.