England | WC 2022 Discussion | QF: France

ryansgirl

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Never thought I'd be bored watching a 6-2 but that was fecking dull. Felt like watching a pre season game. Iran were beyond awful.

Also didn't help that the ref seemingly wanted the game to go on for longer than the actual world cup.

Also, without meaning to be a party pooper, not wearing an armband because nasty FIFA threatened you with the hideous punishment of a yellow card, is absolutely pathetic. The whole point was meant to be that basic rights are more important than a game of football. If you don't want to protest the second it would actually mean something and make a statement, rather than just allowing you to pretend to be a good person, then you make yourself a part of the problem. Genuinely ashamed of that and tbh makes me give significantly less of a shite if England do well or not.
All the posturing in the media and then suddenly England are scared of yellow cards. I think it`s fine to be careful about the rules but don`t be all up in the media before the World Cup saying you`ll be doing this and that. Full of principles except when it is not convenient.

Keano had something to say about that - as always the man identified the contradiction.
 

ryansgirl

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Some have higher standards than others I guess.

Conceding 2 to Iran is a problem.
Iran were a mess, couldn`t even mount a reasonable defence for most of the game. Being an England supporter doesn`t mean I have to cheerlead on their luck in being able to get away with positions and actions that will be punished quickly by a half decent team.When they get out of the group stage, we will see just how little room they will be given by other teams.

I think they know this but whether they will be able to adapt to class teams is another matter. We`ve seen this happen so many times - `It`s coming home` but then is ruined by the inability to string good passes together until an opening is found. I think Portugal and Spain have a better chance of winning the World Cup tbh.
 

TheReligion

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It was nice to see England playing freely and having a goal-fest but it`s doubtful they will be able to do that against a team that is not the shambles of Iran at the present. Iran couldn`t muster any real defence in order to get their good players on the counter-attack and reply to England in the first half, the realities of their life in their nation at the moment also would be weighing heavily on them. They also lost their goalkeeper in the second half, not the way teams come back.

I don`t think England feel complacent and they understand what is ahead once they get out of the group stage but tactics such as having Harry Maguire hanging around the box when an England cross is made etc look fine against the appalling state of the Iranian team. Againt a real working order international team let alone one of the class teams, they will get punished on the counter-attack.
You said Iran would get something from the game before kick off…

England can only beat what’s in front of them.

For someone who keeps saying ‘I want England to do well but…’ it sure seems that you actually don’t looking at your posting history. The total opposite infact :lol:
 

Kopral Jono

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My worry is Southgate will go back to the back 5 in the knockout stages. There’s an argument to say he has to as I don’t think a back 2 of Stones and Maguire with only Rice in front is good enough to progress deep into the competition. It really is a shame we don’t have the depth of talent of centre backs like we do have in every other area of the team.
Rio recently said something along the lines of England would win the World Cup if they have him in his prime playing for them. It's hard to argue against that.
 

Hulme91

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You said Iran would get something from the game before kick off…

England can only beat what’s in front of them.

For someone who keeps saying ‘I want England to do well but…’ it sure seems that you actually don’t looking at your posting history. The total opposite infact :lol:
'As for the heat. we all know England aren`t good in it. That plus not being able to hold onto the ball at crucial times might very well see Iran draw or even get a 1-0 result'
Crikey :lol:
 

TheReligion

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'As for the heat. we all know England aren`t good in it. That plus not being able to hold onto the ball at crucial times might very well see Iran draw or even get a 1-0 result'
Crikey :lol:
Anyone who keeps saying things like “I like England and want them to do well” basically mean “I don’t like England and want them to lose”.

Its Caf code.
 

ryansgirl

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'As for the heat. we all know England aren`t good in it. That plus not being able to hold onto the ball at crucial times might very well see Iran draw or even get a 1-0 result'
Crikey :lol:
Relax - it`s called having an opinion even if it differs from yours. And pre-match on paper, the Iran team looked better than it performed especially with old hand Carlos Q working with them. But it`s fine if you didn`t see any Iran team matches before now.
 

ryansgirl

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Anyone who keeps saying things like “I like England and want them to do well” basically mean “I don’t like England and want them to lose”.

Its Caf code.
Yes, yes, I forgot that you speak for the redcafe whoever you are. Just sit back and try to enjoy the World Cup even if others are not breathless fans of England and don`t mind pointing out the flaws of the team they follow.
 

Lyng

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Relax - it`s called having an opinion even if it differs from yours. And pre-match on paper, the Iran team looked better than it performed especially with old hand Carlos Q working with them. But it`s fine if you didn`t see any Iran team matches before now.
It was pretty clear from the get go that this iranian team has issues. The whole standing up against their own country must weigh heavy on them. The players they have would normally be better than this.
That having been said Englands offense looked very strong.
 

ryansgirl

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It was pretty clear from the get go that this iranian team has issues. The whole standing up against their own country must weigh heavy on them. The players they have would normally be better than this.
That having been said Englands offense looked very strong.
True. I expected Iran to let England come at them and then hit them on the counter-attack. The first part was correct but the defence was porous so all they did was set themselves up for shipping more goals than anybody expected.

I still think England will do their customary turnovers and get caught wide open because the defence comes nowhere near the quality of the attack. I don`t think the World Cup is `coming home` when top class teams await after the luck of the initial draw but who knows?
 

Lyng

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True. I expected Iran to let England come at them and then hit them on the counter-attack. The first part was correct but the defence was porous so all they did was set themselves up for shipping more goals than anybody expected.

I still think England will do their customary turnovers and get caught wide open because the defence comes nowhere near the quality of the attack. I don`t think the World Cup is `coming home` when top class teams await after the luck of the initial draw but who knows?
Englands defense looked shaky to say the least. Teams with fast explosive forwards could pose a real problem.
 

TheReligion

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Yes, yes, I forgot that you speak for the redcafe whoever you are. Just sit back and try to enjoy the World Cup even if others are not breathless fans of England and don`t mind pointing out the flaws of the team they follow.
Another dreadful post to add to your collection.

A breathless collection of shite some might say ;)
 

TheNewEra

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I have to be honest, England were the best I've seen them play yesterday.

The team is Balanced, very good players, a good system.

I really hate Southgate and expected them out by the RO16 but they look really good, honestly they are up there with Argentina and Brazil
 

TheReligion

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I have to be honest, England were the best I've seen them play yesterday.

The team is Balanced, very good players, a good system.

I really hate Southgate and expected them out by the RO16 but they look really good, honestly they are up there with Argentina and Brazil
The Caf is a strange place when England play.

The English have a very self deprecating sense of humour yet others seem to think they genuinely believe they’ll win the World Cup and seem to take offence with it.

If you don’t like England or it’s players fine. Just be open about it. No one cares. It’s the sly, false posts that are more irritating. The pretence of it all.
 

ryansgirl

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Right, so we England supporters who know the team`s weak points and how they can be exploited in an international tournament somehow don`t like it when the England team and some of their supporters believe they win the World Cup.......hmm, logic isn`t your strong point is it? And the paranoia about posters here supposedly against England but being `sly` about it is a bit unusual but whatever......
 

TheNewEra

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The Caf is a strange place when England play.

The English have a very self deprecating sense of humour yet others seem to think they genuinely believe they’ll win the World Cup and seem to take offence with it.

If you don’t like England or it’s players fine. Just be open about it. No one cares. It’s the sly, false posts that are more irritating. The pretence of it all.
I mean its a part of bias really and tribalism, but England have always been very disappointing this is the first performance I've probably seen since the 2004 euros where you think something might be there
 

redcucumber

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Right, so we England supporters who know the team`s weak points and how they can be exploited in an international tournament somehow don`t like it when the England team and some of their supporters believe they win the World Cup.......hmm, logic isn`t your strong point is it? And the paranoia about posters here supposedly against England but being `sly` about it is a bit unusual but whatever......
I mean, I don't really care all that much but there was a pretty fervent anti England sentiment for WC 2018 and the Euros last year.
 

Berbasbullet

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Right, so we England supporters who know the team`s weak points and how they can be exploited in an international tournament somehow don`t like it when the England team and some of their supporters believe they win the World Cup.......hmm, logic isn`t your strong point is it? And the paranoia about posters here supposedly against England but being `sly` about it is a bit unusual but whatever......
That's a long winded way of saying it's coming home.
 

TheReligion

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I mean its a part of bias really and tribalism, but England have always been very disappointing this is the first performance I've probably seen since the 2004 euros where you think something might be there
Oh of course. Let’s not dress it up though. Just say what you think rather than trying to make out otherwise.
 

fck

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The Caf is a strange place when England play.

The English have a very self deprecating sense of humour yet others seem to think they genuinely believe they’ll win the World Cup and seem to take offence with it.

If you don’t like England or it’s players fine. Just be open about it. No one cares. It’s the sly, false posts that are more irritating. The pretence of it all.
Well England was easy to dislike because the arrogance on display was not matching the success and the performance on the field.
But I think England has become a lot more humble and I would have absolutely no problem if the win it and they definitely have a good chance of doing it.
 

STaphouse

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Well England was easy to dislike because the arrogance on display was not matching the success and the performance on the field.
But I think England has become a lot more humble and I would have absolutely no problem if the win it and they definitely have a good chance of doing it.
What arrogance?

This whole “England fans are arrogant” stuff is the biggest myth going.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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Iran were putting in some very bad fouls all game.

Was inevitable there'd be a few knocks, hopefully it's not too serious.
 

FootballHQ

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Why did he play 75 minutes if there was even a hint of concern?
Surprised more hasn't been made of it. Was a poor tackle and he didn't look right afterwards. Even if it's a two week spell out that basically ends his World cup and probably England's so pretty big scan coming up.

Clearly Southgate didn't feel it was a big problem after the game but he obviously had some discomfort today.
 

Abraxas

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To be fair I don't think England will play the same expansive game when they're coming up against the better forwards in the tournament. Maybe they should in an effort to get goals and try and win games through the attack, but they probably won't under Southgate based on history.

They'll probably take a more laboured approach and keep more men behind the ball so Stones and Maguire are protected.
You could say the same about France at times, they looked vulnerable against a bang average Australia. But that's because they take their position in the game for granted and protecting the defence isn't a serious priority.

But obviously the individual quality in the defenders is an issue, that's just a personnel problem.
 

colombianmancunian

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You look good so far. You will go far in the cup, and maybe even win it. The only thing against you is having such a lackluster coach.

Football’s coming home? I think you are clear candidates together with Brazil. Above a France full of injuries and certainly above a mediocre Argentina.
 

croadyman

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You look good so far. You will go far in the cup, and maybe even win it. The only thing against you is having such a lackluster coach.

Football’s coming home? I think you are clear candidates together with Brazil. Above a France full of injuries and certainly above a mediocre Argentina.
France didn't look full of injuries tonight,however much like us they will face much tougher tests. Their depth on the bench is what worries me.
 

ryansgirl

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You look good so far. You will go far in the cup, and maybe even win it. The only thing against you is having such a lackluster coach.

Football’s coming home? I think you are clear candidates together with Brazil. Above a France full of injuries and certainly above a mediocre Argentina.
Argentina under-estimated Saudi Arabia and they paid for it. What we sometimes learn in international tournaments is that well organised no name, no big names teams will shock bigger names due to great coaching and strategy.

Look at what just happened with Japan and Germany - although being connected to Japan I am not surprised by the J team. No egos allowed, no do it my way, no `superstars`, an ethos that you behave yourself on and off the field and you do it for a fraction of what the western football teams are playing their players.

I still think France, Spain, Italy and Portugal are the best teams from the western footbaling nations. Despite the whingeing of a troll or two on here, you don`t have to lavish praise on England as an England supporter. I`ve seen too many `It`s coming home` moments in the WC to be that confident despite the good start. The current England players are certainly good but I would still take most of the Beckham-Gerrard-Rio etc England team over this one.

The weakness that always comes out in international tournaments is the inability to hold onto the ball the way those teams mentioned can do as well as defensive strategies that England don`t tend to do well. I don`t think attack as the best form of defence is going to work when England have those kinds of opponents. Most of us here want to see it then we`ll believe it.
 
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The current England players are certainly good but I would still take most of the Beckham-Gerrard-Rio etc England team over this one.
This makes no sense. Why would you have players who performed worse for England over the current far more succesful players?

And if these players aren't up to your standards, does that make Southgate a great coach, considering what he's done with them?
 

Djemba-Djemba

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This makes no sense. Why would you have players who performed worse for England over the current far more succesful players?

And if these players aren't up to your standards, does that make Southgate a great coach, considering what he's done with them?
Little of what they post makes sense, I wouldn't worry about it.
 

Abraxas

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Argentina under-estimated Saudi Arabia and they paid for it. What we sometimes learn in international tournaments is that well organised no name, no big names teams will shock bigger names due to great coaching and strategy.

Look at what just happened with Japan and Germany - although being connected to Japan I am not surprised by the J team. No egos allowed, no do it my way, no `superstars`, an ethos that you behave yourself on and off the field and you do it for a fraction of what the western football teams are playing their players.

I still think France, Spain, Italy and Portugal are the best teams from the western footbaling nations. Despite the whingeing of a troll or two on here, you don`t have to lavish praise on England as an England supporter. I`ve seen too many `It`s coming home` moments in the WC to be that confident despite the good start. The current England players are certainly good but I would still take most of the Beckham-Gerrard-Rio etc England team over this one.

The weakness that always comes out in international tournaments is the inability to hold onto the ball the way those teams mentioned can do as well as defensive strategies that England don`t tend to do well. I don`t think attack as the best form of defence is going to work when England have those kinds of opponents. Most of us here want to see it then we`ll believe it.
Yes you'd take the Rio era on talent alone as individuals, especially in central defence and midfield where we're poor and/or lacking any serious depth of options.

But the issue is you cannot really transplant them on talent alone and it make any sense because that wasn't the problem. The whole point of why those guys failed to perform to their club level was they were of a different mindset to the current players. So you not only have to take their talent, but also somehow make them of a completely different outlook which is messy.

Southgate is able to foster a culture with this lot, with that bunch it was impossible for even more accomplished managers to do so, and therefore they were much less than the sum of their parts. So in my opinion the only thing that is relevant is the outcome, not individual talent. This squad is a better squad because they have demonstrably better results. I'd rather go into a 2022 tournament with this squad than another Sven era tournament with that squad.
 

ryansgirl

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This makes no sense. Why would you have players who performed worse for England over the current far more succesful players?

And if these players aren't up to your standards, does that make Southgate a great coach, considering what he's done with them?
How did the Beckham-Gerrard-Rio etc England `perform worse` than our current England team? This team do look good in some key ways but they haven`t won anything yet. I didn`t say I preferred all the players of that England team but I think it is hard to say that there is anybody in the current England team that can match the consistency and quality of Beckham and Rio, to name two examples.

There is no equivalent of Gerrard, either, although the big tactical weakness of previous England managers was letting him play the way he did for Liverpool which didn`t always work out when playing European teams with great tactical nouse. It`s heartening to see England`s current attacking quality but I wouldn`t swap any of the defenders for Rio or John Terry.
 
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