Froch Vs Groves 2

[eddiebb]

He waited til the last possible moment to fight Hopkins - Joe had been calling him out for years and somehow it never happened, while Hopkins went on to fight an array of world class opponents

I'M not going to say Hopkins was washed up by the time they fought - the man is still world champ now ffs! - but he was a shadow of the fighter he had been half a decade earlier by the time Calzaghe fought him. Same with RJJ too. And Jeff Lacy was one of the biggest hype jobs there has ever been in the whole history of boxing! And that's some fecking history

 

[Dan_F]

Do you honestly believe that Froch isn't a world class fighter?

I didn't say that? I said that his opponent wasn't. I was making a point that the main reason the fight was so hyped was trash talk.

 

[Summit]

I didn't say that? I said that his opponent wasn't. I was making a point that the main reason the fight was so hyped was trash talk.

Fair enough, I took it as though you thought he wasn't a world class fighter too. Who would you suggest he fight then if he didn't fight ward?

 

[Lance Uppercut]

He waited til the last possible moment to fight Hopkins - Joe had been calling him out for years and somehow it never happened, while Hopkins went on to fight an array of world class opponents

What, like Robert Allen three times?

Perhaps you should go have a look at just who Hopkins was actually fighting. As for "waited until the last possible moment", what a retarded statement. A fight between Hopkins and Calzaghe was agreed in 2002. Purses, everything. Then Hopkins turned around and demanded a far greater purse which scuppered the fight.

Jay Larkin of Showtime:

"A teleconference was set up in my office in New York for July 30th, 2002, and on the call was myself, Don King who was in the room, Frank ****** and Bernard Hopkins' lawyer, Arnold Joseph. Along with Arnold was a woman named Linda Carter, who was there on behalf of Bernard. We asked Arnold if Bernard wanted to fight Joe Calzaghe and we asked him how much money would he want if he did. The response we got was $3million and the fight would have to take place in the United States. After a little scratching of the head, we said 'Okay, done.' Frank ****** agreed on the spot, Don King agreed and we agreed so as far as we were concerned all parties were singing off the one hymm sheet. Arnold excused himself with Linda and I can only assume it was to call Bernard. Either that day or the next day, they came with a new demand: $6million, double the sum that had been agreed, the deal blew up.....he had then and still has no desire to fight Joe Calzaghe, that much is pretty clear.

Joe gets criticised sometimes for not having fought the big-name Americans, but in this case the fault has never rested with him."

I'M not going to say Hopkins was washed up by the time they fought - the man is still world champ now ffs! - but he was a shadow of the fighter he had been half a decade earlier by the time Calzaghe fought him. Same with RJJ too. And Jeff Lacy was one of the biggest hype jobs there has ever been in the whole history of boxing! And that's some fecking history

Again, go and actually look at Hopkins' record. Beating up taxi drivers and welterweights doesn't impress me. His best victories have come since he turned 40. Jones was shot, no argument there.

As for Lacy, he was undefeated and heralded as the next coming of Tyson by the yanks. Joe ruined him.

 

[eddiebb]

The best name on Lacy's record before that was Robin Reid about 10 years after he lost his world title
And the best name since Calzaghe is Peter fecking Manfredo (that he beat at least)

Fair play on B-Hop, but I certainly think that they were both pretty happy not fighting each other and were both complicit in that at different times.

Although having looked at Hopkins' record, between 2000 and the Calzaghe fight he also fought Tarver, Trinidad, Jermaine Taylor twice, de la Hoya and Winky Wright. Certainly a much better list than Joe can claim at any stage of his career.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Tarver - shot
Trinidad - welterweight
Taylor - he lost, twice, when he fought an actual middleweight.
Oscar - welterweight
Winky - junior middleweight


Not hard to put an asterisk beside things when you want to.

 

[Summit]

The best name on Lacy's record before that was Robin Reid about 10 years after he lost his world title
And the best name since Calzaghe is Peter fecking Manfredo (that he beat at least)

Fair play on B-Hop, but I certainly think that they were both pretty happy not fighting each other and were both complicit in that at different times.

Although having looked at Hopkins' record, between 2000 and the Calzaghe fight he also fought Tarver, Trinidad, Jermaine Taylor twice, de la Hoya and Winky Wright. Certainly a much better list than Joe can claim at any stage of his career.

Just feck right off with that crap. He was complete toss. Lost his first fight to Alfonso Gomez in that show the contender, then got back in on a wild card and somehow managed to get all the way to the final. Was never on the level needed to beat Calzaghe.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

He's talking about Lacy beating Manfredo, post Calzaghe loss.

 

[Summit]

He's talking about Lacy beating Manfredo, post Calzaghe loss.

My bad.

 

[eddiebb]

Just feck right off with that crap. He was complete toss. Lost his first fight to Alfonso Gomez in that show the contender, then got back in on a wild card and somehow managed to get all the way to the final. Was never on the level needed to beat Calzaghe.

Well quite

Incidentally, Manfredo was also one of Joe's highest profile opponents around the time he and Hopkins were doing their mating dance

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely loved Calzaghe and he's still one of my favourite ever boxers, but there are serious questions to be asked of his career and I think, regardless of what you think of Joe as a boxer, they are very very valid criticisms and they're certainly criticisms you can't level at Froch.

Well anyway, this thread has veered wildly off topic so I think I'm going to leave it there

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Manfredo was lined up by American TV to get Calzaghe exposure in the US. And yeah, he sucks.

 

[Member 39557]

And let's not forget, Froch was offered a Calzaghe fight and turned it down.

Really?

I didn't know that. I remember him calling out Calzaghe quite a lot towards the end of Calzaghe's career, but I thought at the time that there was no point in Calzaghe fighting him.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Warren said to thesun.co.uk “He [Froch] would not have beaten Joe Calzaghe…twice I offered Froch the Calzaghe fight but both times he stalled. He knew Calzaghe was as tough as him, yet far more quicker and more skilled.”

Read more at http://www.boxingnews24.com/2013/06...have-beaten-joe-calzaghe/#TtlG4zVkOA8YLcOM.99

I agree with you. Calzaghe had bigger fish to fry at that stage in his career.

 

[eddiebb]

Well yeah, but Frank Warren always says shit like that. He offers other fighters a 15% split and says it has to be fought in his own fighters back yard, and when they inevitably say no he gives it the big 'oh yeah we offered him the fight and he said no'. It's a Warren speciality.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

If Froch wanted the Calzaghe fight as much as he claimed, he would have fought him for free.

 

[Member 39557]

Well yeah, but Frank Warren always says shit like that. He offers other fighters a 15% split and says it has to be fought in his own fighters back yard, and when they inevitably say no he gives it the big 'oh yeah we offered him the fight and he said no'. It's a Warren speciality.

Even if that's true, Froch needed Calzaghe far more than Calzaghe needed Froch and you would expect him to jump at the chance. Especially when you look back at how often Froch was calling him out.

 

[Dan_F]

Fair enough, I took it as though you thought he wasn't a world class fighter too. Who would you suggest he fight then if he didn't fight ward?

If he wants a fight in Vegas then he will have to go after Ward. I don't think many of the potential contenders out there will command a big fight in Las Vegas.
He's better off going after that rematch ASAP, as I don't know how much longer his chin will hold up either.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Ward couldn't fill a phonebox. Best fighter in the division and no one gives a shit about him.

If Froch fights in Vegas it will be Chavez Jnr.

 

[eddiebb]

Chavez Junior v Froch in Vegas would really be something.

Chavez is from the same school as Froch in terms of having an iron chin and huge punch power, but he's a fat lazy feck and I'd make Froch comfortable favourite.

 

[Kazi]

I think Chavez Jr is less powerful but has a better chin than Froch.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I don't care for Froch but I dislike Chavez Jr even more. It would be nice to see him get a beating.

 

[Rams]

Listen, they're all pussies. Froch, Calzaghe, Ward, etc.; I'd have them all with my hands tied behind me back. There's only one true World Champ and that's me, Rams!

 

[BigWillprunier]

I notice a lot of people had the fight very close or even Groves up a round or two.
I honestly thought rhat Froch dictated the pace and controlled the centre of the ring for most of the fight.
I gave Groves the 1st just and I think he won the round before the knockout but other than that it was Froch for me.
I was seated quite a way back and a little inebriated amongst other things but I dont think I was that out of it to judge the fight that far off.
Either way I am glad Froch won, they are both cocky so and so's but whereas Froch has some history to fall back on Groves doesn't.
I think Groves bought into his own 'it's a fight Froch can't win' hype before the fight and ultimately that was his downfall.
I also think he changed his tactics and tried to save a bit for later in the fight when Froch comes on strong and that also cost him.
All in all I think it was a decent fight, nothing spectacular apart from the setting and crowd size.
Froch to fight once more in Vegas and that will be his lot, I think he will probably vacate his belt and skip fight Degale.
As for Groves, he has to rebuild from here and may well become a world champion one day but he is a long way from being a great fighter, technically he is good not great and he doesn't have enough power.
As I said earlier in the thread, if he and Degale get it on again and Degale is up for it he will win comfortably.

 

[Randall Flagg]

Well no, he's beaten every top 10 rated SMW out there barring Andre Ward who is considered the #2 p4p, and barring James DeGale who he hasn't fought and who lost to Groves as I said earlier. I don't know what definitions of world class there are which wouldn't include Froch? It's just a fact. It really is. I don't care how you measure it, it's just plain and simple a fact.

And no, all I said was that someone who doesn't think Froch is world class should get their fill of combat sports elsewhere, as boxing clearly isn't for them. I just happened to throw out 2 other sports that came to mind but I didn't drag them into anything

What I want to know is why you put wwe and mma in the same bracket.

One is entertainment the other is a real sport

Fans of mma will always be good judges on fighters IMO

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Anyone else see Froch on the BBC news earlier talking about how he "nearly" beat Andre Ward?

Lolz.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

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Fair play to Groves for this.