German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke

[Zehner]

Well my point was that Leverkusen already struggled to create chances outside of punishing Dortmund's mistakes while Demirbay was on the pitch. And the 2:1 is a prime example of that, because it all starts with a trademark unneccesary Julian Brandt turnover and it ends with Leverkusen running 3v2 at Dortmund's CBs.

No need to be defensive, I didn't say it was all luck, but when you have a counter attacking game plan and from your last three matches the first two basically start with own goals and the third features an opponent that plays right into your plan by using a very attacking setup with sloppy execution, then that's not exactly a typical situation. And in terms of attacking output it will be far more interesting to see how the team will do when they have to create space themselves instead of having it offered up to them by their opponents.

That wasn't a trademark turnover by Brandt. He received a misplaced pass under pressure and the reason it was misplaced was pressure, too. And the reason we were 3v2 was Demirbay's exceptional pass in the transitional moment.

I'm usually also a big fan of xG but I think this is one of the cases in which it fails. We create much more chances than we used to under Bosz since the runs are much better orchestrated and more players are active in the attack, especially the fullbacks. Bakker and Frimpong instead of Wendell/Sinkgraven and Bender/Dragovic is a massive change. And especially in transition, the team gives a totally different impression and that has to do with the system we play.

It is still early days so let's wait and see how vulnerable that leaves us in defense but so far we definitely are much more threatening for the opponent's defense.

 

[ForEverEleven]

Well my point was that Leverkusen already struggled to create chances outside of punishing Dortmund's mistakes while Demirbay was on the pitch. And the 2:1 is a prime example of that, because it all starts with a trademark unneccesary Julian Brandt turnover and it ends with Leverkusen running 3v2 at Dortmund's CBs.

No need to be defensive, I didn't say it was all luck, but when you have a counter attacking game plan and from your last three matches the first two basically start with own goals and the third features an opponent that plays right into your plan by using a very attacking setup with sloppy execution, then that's not exactly a typical situation. And in terms of attacking output it will be far more interesting to see how the team will do when they have to create space themselves instead of having it offered up to them by their opponents.

Well, but thats not rocket science isn´t it? It´s harder for every team to create chances against opponents who sit deeper. As you are a Dortmund fan, you might know a thing or two about that as well (and that´s not a dig, but Dortmund gave away crucial points time and time again in the last few years against such opponents). What makes me hopeful is that there are positive signs since Seoane arrived in terms of possesion play, he made changes to Bosz system that are very evident if you have seen all 4 matches in full and not only the highlights.

Our full backs are much more offensively orientated and a lot more dynamic and fast going forward (Frimpong + Bakker is different to Bender + Sinkgraven). That allows our wide players to drift into the half spaces more and create chances from there with quick turns. Until now, Seoane definetely gets more out of Diaby with that tactical tweak and Schick is much more involved as well with his hold-up play. If you want to have an example on these patterns of play against defensive opponents, watch the first half at Union on the first matchday. I´m trying not to be overly optimistic but I like what I see from Seoane so far.

 

[do.ob]

That wasn't a trademark turnover by Brandt. He received a misplaced pass under pressure and the reason it was misplaced was pressure, too. And the reason we were 3v2 was Demirbay's exceptional pass in the transitional moment.

I'm usually also a big fan of xG but I think this is one of the cases in which it fails. We create much more chances than we used to under Bosz since the runs are much better orchestrated and more players are active in the attack, especially the fullbacks. Bakker and Frimpong instead of Wendell/Sinkgraven and Bender/Dragovic is a massive change. And especially in transition, the team gives a totally different impression and that has to do with the system we play.

It is still early days so let's wait and see how vulnerable that leaves us in defense but so far we definitely are much more threatening for the opponent's defense.

I present to you a misplaced pass received under pressure:

Of course Demirbay played a beautiful pass afterwards, but Dortmund's remaining defence was made up by their two CBs and Axel Witsel, who clearly can't deal with the tempo of such an open game. Do you think your average Bundesliga team will expose themselves like that against Leverkusen on a level score?

I didn't see a vast difference between yesterday's game and Dortmund's last three matches in Leverkusen, if anything it was a stereotypical Bosz performance and it's easy to look orchestrated, when your opponent gives you a numerical advantage in attack or when you're up two goals at the start of the game.

 

[Zehner]

I present to you a misplaced pass received under pressure:

Of course Demirbay played a beautiful pass afterwards, but Dortmund's remaining defence was made up by their two CBs and Axel Witsel, who clearly can't deal with the tempo of such an open game. Do you think your average Bundesliga team will expose themselves like that against Leverkusen on a level score?

I didn't see a vast difference between yesterday's game and Dortmund's last three matches in Leverkusen, if anything it was a stereotypical Bosz performance and it's easy to look orchestrated, when your opponent gives you a numerical advantage in attack or when you're up two goals at the start of the game.

I honestly don't get this. What's the point of that image? Watch it in motion and you clearly see that this was no unprovoked turnover. Reus played a pass under pressure that wasn't accurate, bouncing and not placed well since Brandt had to adjust his posture. Of course that doesn't show in a cleverly timed screenshot.

And no, it definitely was no stereotypical Bosz performance and if you believe this, you aren't paying attention to the details. The playing style is vastly different to Bosz. We have less possession, our fullbacks play much higher on the pitch, the CBs defend much more on the front food, we play a higher line, we are (finally!) playing with inverted wingers again and we transition much more aggressively. This is more reminiscent of Roger Schmidt than Bosz. And no idea what Witsel should have to do with this.

 

[do.ob]

I honestly don't get this. What's the point of that image? Watch it in motion and you clearly see that this was no unprovoked turnover. Reus played a pass under pressure that wasn't accurate, bouncing and not placed well since Brandt had to adjust his posture. Of course that doesn't show in a cleverly timed screenshot.

And no, it definitely was no stereotypical Bosz performance and if you believe this, you aren't paying attention to the details. The playing style is vastly different to Bosz. We have less possession, our fullbacks play much higher on the pitch, the CBs defend much more on the front food, we play a higher line, we are (finally!) playing with inverted wingers again and we transition much more aggressively. This is more reminiscent of Roger Schmidt than Bosz. And no idea what Witsel should have to do with this.

I timed the screenshot as close as I could to Brandt's touch. Yes he had to shift posture a bit. But as you can see in the screenshot he still received it in a perfectly natural posture. If you want to be a midfielder at a club like Dortmund you have to be able to play high paced combinations, there is no excuse for that feck up; he even has a simple lay off to Bellingham available, instead he tries to do some fancy turn into Bakker or whatever... And for Brandt these kind of mind boggling sloppy mistakes are typical. And to put this down as some kind of exemplary defending from Leverkusen even? I mean Brandt is wide open, Bellingham wide open and that head you see at the bottom of the picture is Meunier, who was also wide open. It takes Julian Brandt to turn that situation into a goal at the other end. The turnover for the 1:0 was more or less a forced mistake, but this one wasn't, it should have been a terrific opportunity for Dortmund actually.

And I am aware that Seoane doesn't just play Bosz's football, I wrote myself that he's steering the team into a more counter attacking direction. However on the whole I have yet to see anything that looks better (or worse) than what Bosz has done at Leverkusen. Chances are Bosz would have done well against opponents who spot him two goals as well and he, too, had plenty of double edged games against Dortmund.
What he couldn't do in the end was beating teams who tried to counter attack themselves and Seoane hasn't really faced any of them yet, except for Berlin perhaps, where he drew. All I'm saying is three out of four games this season have been madness, the fourth a draw. Wait how they do in a regular setting.

 

[do.ob]

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Has to be this one, right?

 

[stefan92]

Not sure where to post it...

There are first reports that Stefan Kuntz is in talks to become the turkish national coach. Would be quite a loss for the DFB, as he is the most succesful U21 coach we ever had (three european tournaments played, two wins, once runner-up and a strong start into his fourth campaign).

Allegedly unhappy that he did not become Löw's successor despite his performances, so for some time seemed to be open for new opportunities. He also spend a (quite happy) year in Istanbul during his playing career, so there is already a personal connection to Turkey. Seems very plausible and is a bit sad for German football.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/altint...-u21-coach-schon-in-istanbul/view/news/392831

 

[hasanejaz88]

Not sure where to post it...

There are first reports that Stefan Kuntz is in talks to become the turkish national coach. Would be quite a loss for the DFB, as he is the most succesful U21 coach we ever had (three european tournaments played, two wins, once runner-up and a strong start into his fourth campaign).

Allegedly unhappy that he did not become Löw's successor despite his performances, so for some time seemed to be open for new opportunities. He also spend a (quite happy) year in Istanbul during his playing career, so there is already a personal connection to Turkey. Seems very plausible and is a bit sad for German football.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/altint...-u21-coach-schon-in-istanbul/view/news/392831

I mean, with all due respect to Kuntz, I think many would have seen Flick as a better option than Kuntz eventhough his record at the youth level is fabulous.

It's not as if Kuntz will never return into the national team fold if he does become the Turkish manager. I'm sure the DFB hold him in high regard but when Flick is available you would always go with him.

I would've been happy had Kuntz become the national team manager. Did really well with weaker squads than his competitors.

One win in four for Leipzig. This doesn't bode well for Salzburg's season.

 

[hasanejaz88]

One win in four for Leipzig. This doesn't bode well for Salzburg's season.

 

[do.ob]

Victor Palsson. Legend.

What a beautiful goal from Wanizek

 

[stefan92]

Victor Palsson. Legend.

What a beautiful goal from Wanizek

So that's 10 points from 7 games for Schalke. Proper midfield level, nothing to worry about. Oh well... except it is just the second league

 

[GhastlyHun]

So that's 10 points from 7 games for Schalke. Proper midfield level, nothing to worry about. Oh well... except it is just the second league

Oh how the mightshitty have fallen

 

[hellhunter]

Victor Palsson. Legend.

What a beautiful goal from Wanizek

 

[do.ob]

So that's 10 points from 7 games for Schalke. Proper midfield level, nothing to worry about. Oh well... except it is just the second league

To be fair to Schalke they are still "only" about three or four points behind promotion. The whole league is so inconsistent that very little has been lost yet.

On another note: if I remember correctly September 15th was the deadline for troubled clubs to fix up their finances enough to avoid a points deduction. Have they announced already whether everyone passed that hurdle?

 

[avgp_1]

That Bayern kit is stunning

 

[Hansi Fick]

Why is this not a sticky thread at the top?

Are we being collectively punished for being the infamous German posters (even those who aren't..) and for our behaviour in posts regarding transfers from Borussia Dortmund to Eintracht Manchester?

 

[Blackwidow]

That Bayern kit is stunning

Gives luck, too - even if they just will wear it once. 4:0 at halftime. And there will be more as Lewy does not have one by now.
Goals:
Sane (freekick)
Kimmich (Sane assist)
Gnabry (Müller assist)
Own goal (Müller assist)
Seems to be the day of the Germans.

 

[Tacitus56AD]

Bayern just scored their 7th of the day with 10minutes to go. Lewa allready scored and was subbed off keeping his insane streak alive and now being the new record-holder for scoring in the most consecutive Bundesliga-games.

 

[uamini]

7:0 for Bayern...up next: Fürth. This could get painful.

 

[Piratesoup]

That Bayern kit is stunning

I wish they'd make their Oktoberfest kits permanent.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

All aspects considered, is the current state of the league in terms of competetiveness, excitement and average quality the worst the league's ever been?

 

[Hansi Fick]

All aspects considered, is the current state of the league in terms of competetiveness, excitement and average quality the worst the league's ever been?

Surprise, a Schalke fan suddenly feels the Bundesliga is an unexciting and poor competition. I wonder where did you find the distance needed for such reflection?

 

[Piratesoup]

All aspects considered, is the current state of the league in terms of competetiveness, excitement and average quality the worst the league's ever been?

The average quality skyrocketed with Schalkes relegation.

 

[Tacitus56AD]

Surprise, a Schalke fan suddenly feels the Bundesliga is an unexciting and poor competition. I wonder where did you find the distance needed for such reflection?

Him and Zehner are on a mission. An embarassing mission, but a mission.

 

[uamini]

All aspects considered, is the current state of the league in terms of competetiveness, excitement and average quality the worst the league's ever been?

Well the quality is fine at the top and okay for mid-table teams. It's just that there's a particularly high amount of very poor teams around this season.
Is the league going to be less exciting than in the last couple of seasons? That's difficult to predict...at the moment there's only one team with a perfect points tally and it's not Bayern.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

Surprise, a Schalke fan suddenly feels the Bundesliga is an unexciting and poor competition. I wonder where did you find the distance needed for such reflection?

?? Surprise, surprise, almost everybody feels the Bundesliga is an unexciting and poor competition. I wonder how anybody could think differently. It's okay to like the league, I do too by the way, but there's no doubt the majority of football fans in germany and outside of germany find the current state not interesting. And what would that have to do with which club I follow? It's pretty embarrassing to attack someone because he's a fan of club X. As if that somehow would mean I can't participate in these discussions just because Schalke is an absolute mess.

The average quality skyrocketed with Schalkes relegation.

Yeah, the funny thing is, judging by how shitty Schalke has been last season, it actually dropped. On a completely different note, it's very obvious that Schalke's decline played its part in the decline of the bundesliga as a whole. Just like Bremen, Hamburg, Berlin and the likes.

I really feel sorry for people who are so extremely defensive and feel it's necessary to lash out like that because I follow Schalke. Once again, it's a serious inferiority complex. Bayern is a well run and big club with a hegemony unprecedented in germany, but the league is absolute shit currently. Why is that so hard to admit?

Well the quality is fine at the top and okay for mid-table teams. It's just that there's a particularly high amount of very poor teams around this season.
Is the league going to be less exciting than in the last couple of seasons? That's difficult to predict...at the moment there's only one team with a perfect points tally and it's not Bayern.

There's just Bayern, Dortmund at the top, maybe Leipzig. But what club comes next? Huge gap, just like the gap between Bayern and Dortmund or Leipzig. Tenth title in a row for Bayern, Wolfsburg and Mainz won't be up top come season's end.

 

[Hansi Fick]

?? Surprise, surprise, almost everybody feels the Bundesliga is an unexciting and poor competition. I wonder how anybody could think differently. It's okay to like the league, I do too by the way, but there's no doubt the majority of football fans in germany and outside of germany find the current state not interesting. And what would that have to do with which club I follow? It's pretty embarrassing to attack someone because he's a fan of club X. As if that somehow would mean I can't participate in these discussions just because Schalke is an absolute mess.

It just reminds me of those threads that popped up here on how poor in quality the CL is, after Utd found themselves in Europa League.. hard to take seriously

 

[do.ob]

I think "shit" is just a pretty stupid adjective to use. The lack of variety in the title race is obviously a problem, but a league table doesn't just have first place and for example last season we had a very exciting race for the top 4, we had terrific drama around the coaches and historic achievements at the bottom.
And the football itself is quite obviously not flat out shit. There's a focus on progressive and attractive football at most clubs, German coaches are respected all over Europe.
I get why foreigners don't bother to look past Bayern, but I'd expect a bit more nuance from people, who follow things closely.

 

[hellhunter]

It just reminds me of those threads that popped up here on how poor in quality the CL is, after Utd found themselves in Europa League.. hard to take seriously

Everyone's been shouting from the rooftops how shit and onesided the Bundesliga is for years. But, same as you suspect from the Schalke fan, I wonder why this observation bothers you.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

I think "shit" is just a pretty stupid adjective to use. The lack of variety in the title race is obviously a problem, but a league table doesn't just have first place and for example last season we had a very exciting race for the top 4, we had terrific drama around the coaches and historic achievements at the bottom.
And the football itself is quite obviously not flat out shit. There's a focus on progressive and attractive football at most clubs, German coaches are respected all over Europe.
I get why foreigners don't bother to look past Bayern, but I'd expect a bit more nuance from people, who follow things closely.

Well, I agree, a league's not just about who's winning the title, but this plays a major part when it comes to excitement about sports, right? Winning is the pinnacle of sports in general, it's what every athlete generally strives for. Getting top 4 can be entertaining as well, but is this race really as exciting as the title race? While the football itself might not be flat out shit, it's still mostly bang average nowadays. German coaches are great, I agree, but they either end up at Bayern or in the premier league once they've outgrown their clubs. Stepping stones mostly. Does anybody think a german coach - even assumed he'd get the same wages and work for a similar club in each country - would chose the bundesliga over the premier league?
Following the bundesliga relatively closely for around 20 years now, I have to say, I stopped caring for Schalke's losses and failures some years ago but I still liked to watch the conference. But I find myself not caring, not being entertained 10 minutes after I tuned in. It's just so predictable and many interesting players/coaches have left the league. Not even considering the title "race" which really isn't a race.

 

[Rektsanwalt]

It just reminds me of those threads that popped up here on how poor in quality the CL is, after Utd found themselves in Europa League.. hard to take seriously

Yeah I mean those are still two completely different situations. You assuming it's some kind of sadness over my club's decline is a misinterpretation. I really don't care at all where Schalke ranks at the end of a season or in which league Schalke plays. I don't take pride in my club's achievements, as I did not contribute a bit, which works both ways, as I won't be overly bothered if others fecked up. I can't influence how this works and once you're confronted with a club that simply won't learn, you can either be frustrated your whole life or simply accept that it actually has nothing to do with you or your life bar you caring. Nowadays (recent years), my approach is more football culturally oriented. The social part to me is much more important than the side winning. I want to see friends and family, enjoy driving to the stadium via train and the likes.

 

[Hansi Fick]

Everyone's been shouting from the rooftops how shit and onesided the Bundesliga is for years. But, same as you suspect from the Schalke fan, I wonder why this observation bothers you.

It doesn't bother me. And, as opposed to @do.ob (who's in tongue-in-cheek mode anyway), I don't think, for example, that the managerial carousel of last season was "terrific drama" ( ), but that it was shameful, ridiculous, embarrassing, and almost nihilistically destructive.
I'm simply always amused by how the positions people take are due to the positions they're in. Goes without saying that you can apply the same to me.

 

[hellhunter]

It doesn't bother me. And, as opposed to @do.ob (who's in tongue-in-cheek mode anyway), I don't think, for example, that the managerial carousel of last season was "terrific drama" ( ), but that it was shameful, ridiculous, embarrassing, and almost nihilistically destructive.
I'm simply always amused by how the positions people take are due to the positions they're in.

Well, rest assured, Bayerns dominance and the boredom of the Bundesliga is of very little relevance to Kalrsuhe. And the Bundesliga is still terribly onesided, boring and generally a bit shit as a spectacle.

 

[do.ob]

Well, I agree, a league's not just about who's winning the title, but this plays a major part when it comes to excitement about sports, right? Winning is the pinnacle of sports in general, it's what every athlete generally strives for. Getting top 4 can be entertaining as well, but is this race really as exciting as the title race? While the football itself might not be flat out shit, it's still mostly bang average nowadays. German coaches are great, I agree, but they either end up at Bayern or in the premier league once they've outgrown their clubs. Stepping stones mostly. Does anybody think a german coach - even assumed he'd get the same wages and work for a similar club in each country - would chose the bundesliga over the premier league?
Following the bundesliga relatively closely for around 20 years now, I have to say, I stopped caring for Schalke's losses and failures some years ago but I still liked to watch the conference. But I find myself not caring, not being entertained 10 minutes after I tuned in. It's just so predictable and many interesting players/coaches have left the league. Not even considering the title "race" which really isn't a race.

Well for me personally I would say that the clubs involved matter more than where in the table the race is happening. I think the less closely someone follows a league, the more important the title race becomes for that person's perception of the league. But I really don't understand why people, who follow clubs without any feasible chance to participate in a title race, describe it as the be all end all of the league.

And as far as coaching goes: take a look at the table: Wolfsburg with a perfect record, Mainz (all thanks to Svensson) in third place, Rose, then you have Streich, Baumgart, who turned Cologne around into an entertaining team, Fischer, who has done great things at Union, Sebastian nephew of Uli, who at the very least plays entertaining attacking football with Hoffenheim, Materazzo at Stuttgart, Hütter at Gladbach and even a lower midtable team like Leipzig try their best to play an open pressing game. As far as I'm aware Bundesliga and Serie A are significantly ahead of the other leagues when it comes to goals per game.

What does it matter to your entertainment here and now, where they may or may not end up working in a few years time? I see some engaging narratives, I see progressive coaches, high scoring games and unpredictable score lines. It would be better with a more exciting title race, but how can you not appreciate that if you like football?

 

[Rektsanwalt]

And the Bundesliga is still terribly onesided, boring and generally a bit shit as a spectacle.

 

[do.ob]

Such a beautiful goal from Nkunku and Forsberg. And then they VAR it. Tragic.

 

[hasanejaz88]

What an end to the Koln Leipzig game. Chances for both teams to win it but couldn't score, end to end stuff.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Sané looks to be really back on good form since the international break, after a longer drought. Very happy for him.

 

[do.ob]

What the heck was that from Groß? He should have gotten a straight red imho and he complains about getting his second yellow?

 

[NieThePiet]

What the heck was that from Groß? He should have gotten a straight red imho and he complains about getting his second yellow?

got a stupid yellow-red last season too against Augsburg, while Augsburg only played with 10 men.

All bad things combined in this game for us today.