German Football 21/22 | Gladbach sign Farke

Zehner

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But are Adli, Paulinho and Bellarabi consistent, reliable performers? The fact that the experienced players may fall behind them isn't necessarily a positive. Demirbay has started the first 12 games, the fact that he only played 10 minutes in the last game could mean something, or it could mean nothing.
And while he looks to be good in attack, Bakker is actually the player I was most confident about, because he already has quite an impressive resume, from giving away a penalty and breaking Lainer's ankle, to the vintage Wendell display against Augsburg, to allowing Meunier to look like a force against Dortmund, to giving away a free kick at the edge of the box (that lead to a goal) and collecting an early yellow card with a stupid kick against his opponent.


Regarding your second paragraph: It's not like you can crack a defense just with tactics, the more defensively your opponent's setup and the better they are organized the more individual quality or luck you need. It's possible that Seoane can do more, but the fact that Leverkusen's players in some matches also seemed to struggle to play out clear counter attacks (and not at all for a lack of pace) and that CM is a bit of an issue (Demirbay inconsistent, Andrich limited) suggests that there is an issue with individual quality.
On the other hand mistakes that cost points are remembered more clearly and if your games stay close-ish in score, then each mistake weighs worse. So there is probably some truth to that the image of defenders is suffering from the consistency of the attack.

Regarding xG: according to understat Leverkusen are overperforming their's by nine goals, three of which were own goals and thus definitely just dumb luck. If you want to find out whether the models are undervaluing them it might be worth taking a look at the big overperformers, who are Schick, Diaby and Wirtz:

If I remember correctly Diaby often got to the end of counter attacks and in general I often feel like xG models are undervaluing the clearest of chances (that are often a result of counters) a bit, so maybe that's where a part of his personal overperformance comes from.
I'd say you know what you get from them. Paulinho is a rather clinical player that looks for short passes and can reliably beat players and absorb pressure but he lacks effectiveness. Doesn't get into the right positions often enough, his finishing lets him down, etc. Bellarabi is the polar opposite pretty much. Adli is a bit more.like Diaby but also still very fresh. I think overall they simply don't have these such stark ups and downs as for instance Diaby or Demirbay who can have a great game than followed by an atrocious one.

And you probably can't crack a defense through tactics alone but our approach against low blocks has been especially uninspired if you ask me. It is generally possible to create superiorities in certain areas and implement patterns of play that get players in positions in which they can play out their strengths. What changed so far under Seoane compared to Bosz is that we take more risks to play vertical. That's creating lots of chances when the opponent commits to attacks but if not our attacking approach looks improvised. Also, as you mentioned, we feck up many counter situations in comical fashion and if those are our primary attacking plan I expect the team to play them to the end in their sleep.

Regarding the xG bit about counters: That surely is a favtor. But personally I also think that we had some pretty great finishing as well.
 

ForEverEleven

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And while he looks to be good in attack, Bakker is actually the player I was most confident about, because he already has quite an impressive resume, from giving away a penalty and breaking Lainer's ankle, to the vintage Wendell display against Augsburg, to allowing Meunier to look like a force against Dortmund, to giving away a free kick at the edge of the box (that lead to a goal) and collecting an early yellow card with a stupid kick against his opponent.
Andrich gave that foul away, not Bakker.

@Zehner Can you tell me which games you base your observation off that we don´t create chances against low blocks? The only one I can name is the home game vs. Wolfsburg, which was basically a 50/50 game until Wolfsburg scored and played the Glasner football that made them very succesful last season. Against every other opponent we created enough chances, no matter how they played.
 

Zehner

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Andrich gave that foul away, not Bakker.

@Zehner Can you tell me which games you base your observation off that we don´t create chances against low blocks? The only one I can name is the home game vs. Wolfsburg, which was basically a 50/50 game until Wolfsburg scored and played the Glasner football that made them very succesful last season. Against every other opponent we created enough chances, no matter how they played.
Both Berlin clubs as well as Wolfsburg. I also think that in some of our better games, e. g. Sevilla and Augsburg, we profited from rather lucky first goals (own goals, keeper errors, etc.). If we score that way, it is very hard to defend against us because we can punish the space teams that commit to attack leave in behind. But if we don't.. I have the feeling we aren't inventive enough.
 

do.ob

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I'd say you know what you get from them. Paulinho is a rather clinical player that looks for short passes and can reliably beat players and absorb pressure but he lacks effectiveness. Doesn't get into the right positions often enough, his finishing lets him down, etc. Bellarabi is the polar opposite pretty much. Adli is a bit more.like Diaby but also still very fresh. I think overall they simply don't have these such stark ups and downs as for instance Diaby or Demirbay who can have a great game than followed by an atrocious one.
But that's kind of what I meant when I said that Quality and talent isn't just about how well you handle the ball.

And you probably can't crack a defense through tactics alone but our approach against low blocks has been especially uninspired if you ask me. It is generally possible to create superiorities in certain areas and implement patterns of play that get players in positions in which they can play out their strengths. What changed so far under Seoane compared to Bosz is that we take more risks to play vertical. That's creating lots of chances when the opponent commits to attacks but if not our attacking approach looks improvised. Also, as you mentioned, we feck up many counter situations in comical fashion and if those are our primary attacking plan I expect the team to play them to the end in their sleep.

Regarding the xG bit about counters: That surely is a favtor. But personally I also think that we had some pretty great finishing as well.
I have mostly watched the games where the opening goal kind of fell into Leverkusen's lap or came about via counter attacks, so I can't really say how the team fared in the games where it didn't. It's just that I can see why a team would struggle to break down defenses, when you have a destroyer like Andrich oder an inconsistent player like Demirbay in central midfield or Diaby out wide. You can see the same at Dortmund, where the attacking play was hugely reliant on individual moments after a few players got injured, even if the team sheet didn't necessarily look that bad on paper. Especially when it comes to Witsel.


Andrich gave that foul away, not Bakker.
You're referring to the Stuttgart game, right? It's kind of hard for Andrich to commit a foul after he's been sent off already. :wenger:
 

ForEverEleven

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Both Berlin clubs as well as Wolfsburg. I also think that in some of our better games, e. g. Sevilla and Augsburg, we profited from rather lucky first goals (own goals, keeper errors, etc.). If we score that way, it is very hard to defend against us because we can punish the space teams that commit to attack leave in behind. But if we don't.. I have the feeling we aren't inventive enough.
In the Hertha game we were at the worst moment of our injury crisis and had to bring on 2 16-year olds from the bench to try and turn the game around. The pitch was horrible after Union played their Conference League game there 3 days prior and Hertha scored their first chance which wasn´t even a real chance but a fantastic individual skill from Jovetic. I struggle to blame the team for not producing a lot of chances in that game.
Union was the first game of the season and is always a very tough place to go. When was the last time they actually lost at home prior to their loss to Bayern? 2019? We came back after going 1:0 down and played a very good first half and had a few chances. I was satisfied with that.
In the game against Betis we had a few big chances before our first goal (which wasn´t lucky at all?). Remember Adli missing a 1 vs. 1 for instance. So, it doesnt fit.
Against Augsburg the first two goals were fortunate but who knows how that game wouldve went without them. I think we still would´ve won, its a bit unfair to just assume we would´ve struggled otherwise.

Added to that we went a goal down against defensive teams a number of times this season and came back from it nearly every time. At home against Ferencvaros, away to Sevilla, at home against Celtic, and as I mentioned in both games against the Berlin clubs.

I don´t see big problems here. From time to time, every team has trouble creating chances against low blocks but it cant be classified as specific weakness as of now.


You're referring to the Stuttgart game, right? It's kind of hard for Andrich to commit a foul after he's been sent off already. :wenger:
No, the Dortmund game when Guerreiro scored the freekick. At least I thought that was the game you were referring to before because we didn´t conced another freekick goal this season.
 

Zehner

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In the Hertha game we were at the worst moment of our injury crisis and had to bring on 2 16-year olds from the bench to try and turn the game around. The pitch was horrible after Union played their Conference League game there 3 days prior and Hertha scored their first chance which wasn´t even a real chance but a fantastic individual skill from Jovetic. I struggle to blame the team for not producing a lot of chances in that game.
Union was the first game of the season and is always a very tough place to go. When was the last time they actually lost at home prior to their loss to Bayern? 2019? We came back after going 1:0 down and played a very good first half and had a few chances. I was satisfied with that.
In the game against Betis we had a few big chances before our first goal (which wasn´t lucky at all?). Remember Adli missing a 1 vs. 1 for instance. So, it doesnt fit.
Against Augsburg the first two goals were fortunate but who knows how that game wouldve went without them. I think we still would´ve won, its a bit unfair to just assume we would´ve struggled otherwise.

Added to that we went a goal down against defensive teams a number of times this season and came back from it nearly every time. At home against Ferencvaros, away to Sevilla, at home against Celtic, and as I mentioned in both games against the Berlin clubs.

I don´t see big problems here. From time to time, every team has trouble creating chances against low blocks but it cant be classified as specific weakness as of now.




No, the Dortmund game when Guerreiro scored the freekick. At least I thought that was the game you were referring to before because we didn´t conced another freekick goal this season.
I guess time will tell :) I'm not complaining obviously if I'm wrong. After all those are just my impressions and they've been backed up so far by the xG statistics. I just think this is looking far too similar to last season when we also had a fantastic start result wise under Bosz with Diaby and co. scoring some great goals which we unfortunately weren't able to reproduce comstantly. The xG stats looked bad back then, too, and I didn't really take them too seriously so I'm more cautious now. But as I said: Time will tell.
 

stefan92

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Not exactly breaking news, but in that picture you can see quite a few familiar faces:
Philipp Wollscheid (former Leverkusen player)
Pirmin Schwegler (former Leverkusen, Frankfurt player)
Nuri Sahin (formerly Dortmund, Real, Liverpool)
Christoph Kramer (current Gladbach player)
Lars Stindl (current Gladbach player)
Makoto Hasebe (?!) (current Frankfurt player)
Marcel Schmelzer (sort of former Dortmund player)
the other two seem familiar as well, but I can't put a name to their face right now.
Kicker now reporting about this: https://www.kicker.de/guendogan-bereitet-trainerkarriere-vor-881002/artikel

So we now have a list of all players involved. Also it is now confirmed that this is a special course for active players who will get the B+ license (allows you to coach youth teams or in lower leagues).
 

Hansi Fick

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Bundesliga goes out of their way to make the title race interesting: Felix Zwayer to referee for BVBFCB
Absolutely mindboggling that this guy continues to be rewarded by the DFB despite being blatantly incompetent and provenly corrupt.
The Andi Scheuer of German refereeing.
 

Hansi Fick

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Regarding Marsch - you simply do not sub out your newly signed young striking talent, 19 years, in fecking minute 43, in his first ever league start for the club. What the feck. You can't do it. This will never be forgiven by the player, and why would it. Just wait another two minutes until HT at least - if you really must take out your own catastrophic failure in setting up the team on your youngest starter...

Horrible management, the kind of stuff that won't make anyone shed a tear when you're sacked.
 

do.ob

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Regarding Marsch - you simply do not sub out your newly signed young striking talent, 19 years, in fecking minute 43, in his first ever league start for the club. What the feck. You can't do it. This will never be forgiven by the player, and why would it. Just wait another two minutes until HT at least - if you really must take out your own catastrophic failure in setting up the team on your youngest starter...

Horrible management, the kind of stuff that won't make anyone shed a tear when you're sacked.
The thoughts you described crossed my mind as well, but in the end there's probably more to than that. It could also have been a deliberate lesson for Brobbey, e.g. because he didn't follow instructions and if that was the case it's impossible to say whether it was reasonable or not. Some players need a gentle touch, others need to have some cold water splashed in their faces every once in a while. Leipzig and Marsch's approach in particular rely so much on cohesion, I can see why they would act with a firm hand.
 

stefan92

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The thoughts you described crossed my mind as well, but in the end there's probably more to than that. It could also have been a deliberate lesson for Brobbey, e.g. because he didn't follow instructions and if that was the case it's impossible to say whether it was reasonable or not. Some players need a gentle touch, others need to have some cold water splashed in their faces every once in a while.
That might be true, but I doubt it in this case. Apparently Leipzig will get a psychologist as part of the coaching staff. In general nothing wrong about getting a specialist in to work on mentality etc, but in this specific case it was also said he should deal with unhappy players etc. The way that was phrased just sounded a lot like Marsch is horrible at man managing, as this are points a good coach usually deals with himself.

Obviously Leipzig won't confirm that directly, but is is the impression you get here.
 

do.ob

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That might be true, but I doubt it in this case. Apparently Leipzig will get a psychologist as part of the coaching staff. In general nothing wrong about getting a specialist in to work on mentality etc, but in this specific case it was also said he should deal with unhappy players etc. The way that was phrased just sounded a lot like Marsch is horrible at man managing, as this are points a good coach usually deals with himself.

Obviously Leipzig won't confirm that directly, but is is the impression you get here.
Where did you read that? I took a quick look around google and all I could find was that Marsch apologized and more or less blamed it on remote coaching that the sub took a bit longer and ended up being so close to the break.
 

Hansi Fick

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The thoughts you described crossed my mind as well, but in the end there's probably more to than that. It could also have been a deliberate lesson for Brobbey, e.g. because he didn't follow instructions and if that was the case it's impossible to say whether it was reasonable or not. Some players need a gentle touch, others need to have some cold water splashed in their faces every once in a while. Leipzig and Marsch's approach in particular rely so much on cohesion, I can see why they would act with a firm hand.
Every once in a while? Maybe.. But in the first ever Bundesliga game he starts? It's a mad thing to do if you ask me.
 

do.ob

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Every once in a while? Maybe.. But in the first ever Bundesliga game he starts? It's a mad thing to do if you ask me.
Brobbey already played (and scored) a bit for Ajax, he probably joined Leipzig on good wages and with the expectations to play a significant role and he's also played some minutes and started in the CL for them before this happened. It's not like he's some kid fresh out of the academy. But having said and read a bit more on the matter it seems that it seems like the timing was either a feck up or an unfortunate side effect of Marsch's quarantine.
 

stefan92

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Where did you read that? I took a quick look around google and all I could find was that Marsch apologized and more or less blamed it on remote coaching that the sub took a bit longer and ended up being so close to the break.
Was mentioned in this twitter thread:
Not sure how reliable it is, but it looks like at least some Leipzig fans take it seriously (originally found it on their transfermarkt.de forum)
 

do.ob

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Was mentioned in this twitter thread:
Not sure how reliable it is, but it looks like at least some Leipzig fans take it seriously (originally found it on their transfermarkt.de forum)
I've seen that account before, he seems reliable as far as aggregating media goes (in this case Sport Bild). It sounds pretty crazy that Marsch supposedly doesn't want to add someone for the mental aspects to his staff, I thought that would be an absolute standard these days. And avoiding player unhappyness doesn't sound like a good idea either. If this is what we get to read while he's still in the job, I wonder what kind of revelations and accusations we will get if he's sacked.
 

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Union up 2-1 again! Baumgartl! (is that the name?)
It is, and fully deserved...

Leipzig have become so bad, it's unbelievable. Might drop into the second half of the league table this weekend...
 

stefan92

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Union are so wasteful, could easily be 4-1 or 5-1 at this point. How it is still only 2-1 is really surprising. What is Leipzig actually doing there? Really think we are coming close to the end of Marsch's time there.
 

NYAS

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Hallo my German friends.

I’m in your country for the next few days and there are two games I can’t miss.

Can anyone help in telling me which channel Dortmund v Bayern and United v Palace are being broadcast on? I assume Sky Deutschland for both, but which exact channel? Hoping my hotel has them.

Danke schon
 

Blackwidow

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Hallo my German friends.

I’m in your country for the next few days and there are two games I can’t miss.

Can anyone help in telling me which channel Dortmund v Bayern and United v Palace are being broadcast on? I assume Sky Deutschland for both, but which exact channel? Hoping my hotel has them.

Danke schon
Dortmund-Bayern
Sky Bundesliga UHD
Sky Sport Bundesliga HD 1 (after the Bundesliga conference)

United - Palace
Sky Sport 1 HD
 

do.ob

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hasanejaz88

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Leverkusen beating Greuther 7-1, still 15 mins left. 3 goals in the last 10 minutes I think.
 

FootballHQ

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What's the lowest points team has gained in Bundesliga history? Think Furth going to struggle to get to even 10 points.
 

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Bayern incredibly open at the back, were kind of begging for it :confused:
 

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Brutalian Brandt giving Bayern a taste of their own homeopathic medicine, you love to see it:drool: