Inverted wingers

[joedirt87]

It's pointless when you're fullbacks aren't capable of supporting, overlapping and providing width. It's also pointless when you buy a striker who is essentially a target man, because of the above 2 points, he isn't going to get enough service. They are also pointless when you cannot create enough possession and movement to allow them to make the diagonal runs in behind the fullbacks to make cut backs.

This is exactly the reason why SAF jettisoned Ruud, he knew the setup he was moving to couldn't accommodate someone who was essentially a box striker. Which is aesthetically what Hojlund looks to be.

The end result is very few goals.

Yeah the lack of overlapping with the wingers that ETH chooses to play is insane. These guys have enough problems beating a player 1 on 1 right now, so it's even tougher when a defender knows he doesn't have to worry about another attacking player coming to help. We don't create overloads. Injuries obv. play a part in this, but I think its mainly down to tactical changes from last year to this year.

 

[Leftback99]

Antony needs replacing with a creator if we're going to get anything out of Hojlund. Sancho is a write off, Pellistri isn't good enough, neither is Amad.

 

[MadMike]

Maybe I'm a dinosaur pining for the days of Giggs and Beckham, or maybe I'm just frustrated at the continual ineffectiveness of United's inverted wingers, but when and why did this become so popular in football?

You might have to consider that you’re too much of a dinosaur if you don’t remember that the days you describe also include Wenger inverting wingers such as Pires, Ljungberg and Overmars. Even before the advance of 4-3-3 as a system.

Ultimately statistics indicated that controlling the central midfield and maintaining possession of the ball increases your chances of winning, hence most teams play with 3 CMs these days. 4-4-2 became obsolete because teams were chasing shadows in midfield, as we found out in our continental encounters in the 00s.

As a result of the 3 CMs tactic there is one less out and out striker, so lobing crosses for 1 striker to fight against 2 CBs is a fools game statistically. So wingers became inside forwards or inverted wingers either becoming a goal threat themselves or being more involved in ball circulation and playmaking. Or if you’re Messi, in both.

This 4-3-3 with inverted wingers might be less aesthetically pleasing to some, but it is undoubtedly more efficient for a results driven team, than 4-4-2 with natural wingers. And football is a results business.

PS. Pep is now onto the next evolution of this, with a CB stepping into midfield to become an extra CM (what Stones does). Effectively having 2 DMs, 2 B2B CMs and 2 wide playmakers. Thus absolutely dominating possession and strangling the opposition.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

You might have to consider that you’re too much of a dinosaur if you don’t remember that the days you describe also include Wenger inverting wingers such as Pires, Ljungberg and Overmars. Even before the advance of 4-3-3 as a system.

Ultimately statistics indicated that controlling the central midfield and maintaining possession of the ball increases your chances of winning, hence most teams play with 3 CMs these days. 4-4-2 became obsolete because teams were chasing shadows in midfield, as we found out in our continental encounters in the 00s.

As a result of the 3 CMs tactic there is one less out and out striker, so lobing crosses for 1 striker to fight against 2 CBs is a fools game statistically. So wingers became inside forwards or inverted wingers either becoming a goal threat themselves or being more involved in ball circulation and playmaking. Or if you’re Messi, in both.

This 4-3-3 with inverted wingers might be less aesthetically pleasing to some, but it is undoubtedly more efficient for a results driven team, than 4-4-2 with natural wingers. And football is a results business.

PS. Pep is now onto the next evolution of this, with a CB stepping into midfield to become an extra CM (what Stones does). Effectively having 2 DMs, 2 B2B CMs and 2 wide playmakers. Thus absolutely dominating possession and strangling the opposition.

Some great points.

I still think there's a place in the game, and in this United team in particular, for wingers on the outside and getting crosses in, even within the current formation. Even if only for periods of games.

We have a centre forward who's 6'3" and we don't cross it into him, ever! Madness. Even if as you say crossing it in to a CF is statistically foolish, statistically we're barely averaging 1 goal per game in the PL as it is, so it could scarcely get any worse!

Plus we've seen before that Rashford is well able to arrive at the back post and score headers, this is something he could potentially use to great effect arriving in from the right (that is if we had a left footed winger capable of getting good balls in!).

Anyway, I'm off to watch old videos of the 98/99 season......

 

[ForeverRed1]

I HATE Antony on the right. He can’t use his right foot!

 

[Stadjer]

Antony needs replacing with a creator if we're going to get anything out of Hojlund. Sancho is a write off, Pellistri isn't good enough, neither is Amad.

lets see Amad play a few games for Manchester United before writing him off already okay?

 

[MadMike]

Some great points.

I still think there's a place in the game, and in this United team in particular, for wingers on the outside and getting crosses in, even within the current formation. Even if only for periods of games.

We have a centre forward who's 6'3" and we don't cross it into him, ever! Madness. Even if as you say crossing it in to a CF is statistically foolish, statistically we're barely averaging 1 goal per game in the PL as it is, so it could scarcely get any worse!

Plus we've seen before that Rashford is well able to arrive at the back post and score headers, this is something he could potentially use to great effect arriving in from the right (that is if we had a left footed winger capable of getting good balls in!).

Anyway, I'm off to watch old videos of the 98/99 season......

We just play like an incredibly poorly coached team with some shite wingers to boot. I don’t think that’s the fault of the system. Other teams seem to pull it off just fine.

I fully understand the urge to watch some 90s United.

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Antony needs replacing with a creator if we're going to get anything out of Hojlund. Sancho is a write off, Pellistri isn't good enough, neither is Amad.

Pellistri may turn out to be not good enough but in any of the cameos I've seen of him I've been impressed, with his energy and application at least.

Deserves more runs in the team in my opinion, especially in place of Antony.

 

[Maticmaker]

Maybe we compromise. An inverted winger on the left and a regular one on the right. Sorted.

It's so obvious, but why does it not happen?

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

Any tactic if universally used becomes predictable and especially when it’s not functioning well. I can understand why teams invert their wingers but insisting this is the only way to play is an issue. I feel like Sancho for example convinced himself that playing on the left is what a winger does if they’re right footed, despite the fact he’s better on the right side. If you have someone like Mo Salah who is rapid and has a lethal shot then 100% have him play inverted winger/inside right. But if you have someone like Sancho who doesn’t have much of a shot and is better at crossing, then the same side as his dominant foot might suit better.

I am not really sure what you do with Antony but anything has to be better than his crap cut inside and shoot every single time.