Jadon Sancho | Howard Nurse: Dortmund's resolve to be tested finally.

Nou_Camp99

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I'm unsure how United aren't paying the money still.

The reality is the following:
  • Dortmund are unlikely to win the league, they'll finish 2nd or 3rd
  • Dortmund with or without Sancho will finish either 2nd of 3rd because of their squad
  • Keeping Sancho would actually increase his value, he will only be worth more as he develops more
  • Dortmund have set a £108M value on Sancho which is a fair valuation considering his age and his output
  • United need Sancho because they lack a RW and have done, especially since Ronaldo leaving in 2009
  • United have missed out on key targets in the past including Eden Hazard (which was obviously a bad moment for the club)
  • United have a free run at Sancho, they have the money and there's no other team competing for him.
  • United have also said that he is the number one priority this summer.
If Sancho doesn't sign for United the board really do need to have a word with themselves.

Looking at 'Bale' as an alternative on Loan is really not the solution long-term.

I'd take Bale on loan and Sancho sure, but any situation where Sancho doesn't sign is disastrous.
Disastrous? Jesus wept. How would it be disastrous? We didn't have him the season just finished and we came 3rd and we had lots of bad luck last season too with injuries. We also didn't have Bruno for 5 months of it.

Be disappointing to not get him perhaps but it's far from disastrous.
 

MDFC Manager

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I'm again beginning to think we'll pay up. Surely the difference between our valuation and Dortmund's valuation is lesser than what we paid for VdB, who we could have maybe bought in January?
 

Adam-Utd

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Before Covid I expected him to cost about £120m, surely the club did too?

£108m is a huge amount, but it's hardly a completely unrealistic fee. If we've been playing for this transfer for 2 years surely we have that money set aside.

I feel like we're just trying to be stingy and get as much discount as possible. I hope in the last week we give in and get it sorted.
 

Glorio

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To those saying "we don't know the financial situation". Why did Woodward brief to ducker a week ago that we had a deal with Sancho and now Sancho was pushing the deal? Woodward knows the situation a week ago. Why the feck did we get a full guns blazing brief, in the process implying a deal was still was possible...if we know it's not financially possible?

I've given up on the deal, but we need this answered. Why were we briefed about the saga so late in the window if it wasn't a guaranteed signing?
Well, we don't really have proof of any brief in all fairness
 

romufc

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I don't believe that. We are Manchester United, we can still afford pretty much any player out there.
Affordability is never the question. Glazers is the problem. Spend £108m and get less dividends or not spend money and get full dividends?

They don't care about United, they don't care about fans.

Liverpool won the PL, that on its own should be an eye opener for any United fan.
 

WPMUFC

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That one of them copied the other?
Hahaha ahh yes, the BBC, you know, that bastion of rampant plagiarism :lol:

That's the simpler answer, not Woodward being a clown and briefing for no reason, but the BBC journo risks credibility just to copy an article.
 

Eplel

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Disastrous? Jesus wept. How would it be disastrous? We didn't have him the season just finished and we came 3rd and we had lots of bad luck last season too with injuries. We also didn't have Bruno for 5 months of it.

Be disappointing to not get him perhaps but it's far from disastrous.
Any why did we not have Bruno for 5 months? Because the board was pulling the same shit they're pulling with Sancho.
Why was a lot of injuries really bad luck? Because we did not have adequate cover for our first team, and ended up playing with Lingard and Perreira.

We're going into the season praying that we don't have any injuries and that our main RW, who is not really an RW, will not get burned out.
 

Nou_Camp99

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Any why did we not have Bruno for 5 months? Because the board was pulling the same shit they're pulling with Sancho.
Why was a lot of injuries really bad luck? Because we did not have adequate cover for our first team, and ended up playing with Lingard and Perreira.

We're going into the season praying that we don't have any injuries and that our main RW, who is not really an RW, will not get burned out.
Still not disastrous is it? How can it be disastrous to not have a player we have never owned? And even if we get him we won't win the league. We're more than Jadon Sancho away from finishing above the top 2.
 

Eplel

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Still not disastrous is it? How can it be disastrous to not have a player we have never owned? And even if we get him we won't win the league. We're more than Jadon Sancho away from finishing above the top 2.
Because there can be consequences. If we miss top 4, we miss on a lot of money, we're sure to lose key players in our squad and key players that we could have signed if we miss CL.
 

Ikon

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But surely we had been speaking to them in the expectation that we would get CL. The price shouldn’t have been a surprise.
Exactly this..!!
We have been closely monitoring Sancho since he was 17 years of age, how could we not have any idea of his valuation....??
Did we honestly expect that he'd only be valued at about £60M quid...??

This may be a simplistic way of putting it, but surely if you are intending to be making a large purchase, then you put money aside for it, knowing there is a big price tag on the horizon.
CL football or not, United should have had a large Summer budget in readiness for the Sancho transfer.

You don't go into a Ferrari showroom with only enough money for a Fiat Punto....!!!
 

duffer

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Hahaha ahh yes, the BBC, you know, that bastion of rampant plagiarism :lol:

That's the simpler answer, not Woodward being a clown and briefing for no reason, but the BBC journo risks credibility just to copy an article.
Football "journalists" have no credibility to begin with and when it comes to speculation on transfers, literally nobody gives a shit about checking sources.
 

reelworld

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I respect the club position, because every business is suffering due to covid. Spunking 120M Euros for one player is a dangerous game to play. Especially if we still need to fill other position of need.
People complains how United been taken to the cleaners in previous transfers, and now the same people complains when United takes a stand. "Not now" they said.
Well, if not now then when? If United wanted to have stronger position in future transfer market, then they should be able to walk away on a deal.
However, this requires a backup target that must be successful. And that's one area that United must be able to improve
 

Chief123

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Ever wondered why EPL teams assemble very expensive squads that hardly match up to Bayern , Madrid or Barcelona? Well this is it. You pay 120million for the 3rd best player of a team that doesn’t even threaten to win the champions league.

I’m willing to bet that Mason Greenwood in BVB will score 20goals a season and probably get some odd 15 assists. Is he worth 100million? Not yet.

it was the same with Pogba. Good midfielder but not the best in Juventus at that time. Vidal and Pirlo were better.

Next time if you wonder why we spend 400 million and still lose to Juventus or BVB then there is your answer.

People can talk all they want about the market changing but why does it not change for other leagues in Europe? Only EPL teams and Barcelona fall victim
To be fair, buying expensive players can get you to where you want to be. Look at PSG for example. Paid £100m plus for both Mbappe and Neymar (regarded as two of the best in the world). Lead them to their first champions league final. Fair enough they didn’t win it on the night, but with the chances they had they should have.
 

LoneStar

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I respect the club position, because every business is suffering due to covid. Spunking 120M Euros for one player is a dangerous game to play. Especially if we still need to fill other position of need.
People complains how United been taken to the cleaners in previous transfers, and now the same people complains when United takes a stand. "Not now" they said.
Well, if not now then when? If United wanted to have stronger position in future transfer market, then they should be able to walk away on a deal.
However, this requires a backup target that must be successful. And that's one area that United must be able to improve
That’s the reason why you always have the player you want to get, and a backup or two in case the deal doesn’t go through. By the looks of it, this just looks poorly planned. Even worse if we cave in now and end up paying what they wanted all along.
 

pav1790

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Our league starts this weekend, and clubs are allowed to operate at 20% capacity. That means there will be around 16.000 fans in Dortmund when they play their first match on Saturday. You'll never know how it goes on, but the worst seems to be behind us, at least in Germany.
They didn't want a lump sum btw, but acceptable installments.




That sense of entitlement here is amazing. They don't want to sell him, they agreed on some sort of RC with Sancho, which your club isn't willing to meet. He's got 3 years on his contract, they have 0 obligation to make you muppets happy.
They have set a deadline because they aren't run by dorks. Losing 40+ G+A requires mitigation, means they would've needed time fo find a decent replacement and ease it into the squad. You won't give a damn about that, but they certainly do.
If you think 20% is good enough for a club like Dortmund then so be it. No discussion necessary.

Just an article on last years finances

On a side note, I’m glad COVID is under control there.

If you could elucidate what the acceptable installments are, Id be happy to entertain that line of discussion. But as I understood they want most if not all of the cost upfront.

This is probably my second or third post in this thread. I am hardly a muppet, and hardly entitled. I like Sancho the player and I would have liked to have seen him here this season. That’s not happening.

Shortcomings exist on United end of this deal as well and that’s well understood by all. Our folks come across naive in this saga.

But Dortmund have negotiated in bad faith. They don’t want to sell him, they think they don’t need to. They have done their best to let it be known at every opportunity. They have even done their best to stall negotiations.

Perhaps because they simply don’t want to sell or because they think it will get the best price for him. When absolutely no one else has shown a real interest and is not likely to next year round. Fair fecks to them.

Only the time will tell who comes out ahead. I would be fine if this deal shows other clubs that we won’t be paying what is asked and are willing to not do a deal.

P.S. I am sure as a Bayern fan you have a soft corner for Dortmund. But be mindful that this is not a crusade. And we are just fans. Have an opinion on the club all you like ( as I did ) . But don‘t go around calling folks names, even as harmless as entitled and even if true. :)
 

Chief123

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So why haven't we got Sancho yet it we can afford him?
The same reason we didn’t buy Bruno last summer. We could afford him but wanted him cheaper. We still went and bought him in Jan.

This myth that we can’t afford him is not true. Let’s not forget our prime targets that were touted this summer were Sancho, Grealish and a CB. If we got them 3 at the price WE wanted, they would still cost over £150m.

If we were to buy a player for £700m people would regard that as risky. Now imagine spending £700m on absolutely nothing. That’s essentially what we did when we got bought out by Glazers and put into debt immediately. Expenditure and debt has never been a problem under Glazers as it’s always been serviced quite comfortably. Comfortably to the point they have taken nearly £100m in dividends in last 5 years despite crazy transfer fees and wages paid out.

We absolutely can afford any player.
 

VP89

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To be fair, buying expensive players can get you to where you want to be. Look at PSG for example. Paid £100m plus for both Mbappe and Neymar (regarded as two of the best in the world). Lead them to their first champions league final. Fair enough they didn’t win it on the night, but with the chances they had they should have.
Meanwhile Liverpool have a net spend of 25m and have won the title and the champions league. You can push for tail examples with either method - the best approach is likely somewhere in between.
 

Chief123

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Meanwhile Liverpool have a net spend of 25m and have won the title and the champions league. You can push for tail examples with either method - the best approach is likely somewhere in between.
Yes absolutely. There are examples for both sides. But even Liverpool still had to spend £140m on two players to get them there. (Alisson and VVD). My response was to the OP who suggested spending big wasn’t the way to do it.
 

Bilbo

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To those saying "we don't know the financial situation". Why did Woodward brief to ducker a week ago that we had a deal with Sancho and now Sancho was pushing the deal? Woodward knows the situation a week ago. Why the feck did we get a full guns blazing brief, in the process implying a deal was still was possible...if we know it's not financially possible?

I've given up on the deal, but we need this answered. Why were we briefed about the saga so late in the window if it wasn't a guaranteed signing?
Assuming that a brief even happened - doubtful in my view - then its rather obvious what the play is here. We are trying to put pressure on Dortmund to reduce the asking price.

How would you feel as a United fan if Barcelona were trying to buy Greenwood but wouldn't meet our asking price? Probably not a lot. What about if you then knew that the player had agreed terms with them? You'd be thinking 'he wants to go'.

Now look at it from Dortmunds perspective. They've already put a price tag on him - ie they are willing to sell him. Now the player has agree terms - ie he wants to go. As a fan of Dortmund you'd probably be questioning that players commitment to your club, and the club are also wondering if its worth keeping a player that wants to leave
 

Garethw

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Without Sancho, I'd be very surprised if we were to be honest. We just don't have the depth required for what is going to be a ridiculously intense season.
I’m a huge critic of Solskjaer. I don’t think the guy should ever have been appointed. But he gets a free pass from me this year.

When we completely fall to pieces in December and we are hovering mid table due to our players being exhausted, that will be 100% on the board!

A well run club would either have Sancho signed already or would Have walked away weeks ago and signed an alternative for the manager. It’s utterly insane that we are a couple of days away from our season resuming and this is the situation.
 

spaceboyRSA

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This reminds me of January this year when everyone got so frustrated with Woodward over dithering around signing players. Eventually wasnt there a protest outside his house, and Fernandes signed a day or two later?

Not suggesting the same happens mind you.
 

MrSingh2002

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Any why did we not have Bruno for 5 months? Because the board was pulling the same shit they're pulling with Sancho.
Why was a lot of injuries really bad luck? Because we did not have adequate cover for our first team, and ended up playing with Lingard and Perreira.

We're going into the season praying that we don't have any injuries and that our main RW, who is not really an RW, will not get burned out.
Now you're talking root cause.. I like it.

Self inflicted problems, the worst type of problem.
 

Siorac

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I’m a huge critic of Solskjaer. I don’t think the guy should ever have been appointed. But he gets a free pass from me this year.

When we completely fall to pieces in December and we are hovering mid table due to our players being exhausted, that will be 100% on the board!
This is ridiculous though. We should not lower expectations to nothing just because of a poor transfer window. We finished 3rd last season and we'll start this season with a better squad. It's disappointing that we're not taking steps to catch up to the top teams but the expectation should still be that we improve on last season's points total. Around 75 points is a reasonable target without signing anyone else. If we're mid-table in December, then our coaching team will have seriously fecked up.
 

r0663664

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I respect the club position, because every business is suffering due to covid. Spunking 120M Euros for one player is a dangerous game to play. Especially if we still need to fill other position of need.
People complains how United been taken to the cleaners in previous transfers, and now the same people complains when United takes a stand. "Not now" they said.
Well, if not now then when? If United wanted to have stronger position in future transfer market, then they should be able to walk away on a deal.
However, this requires a backup target that must be successful. And that's one area that United must be able to improve
I agree it is stupid to spend 108 million on one player but my problem is we are spending and likely not spend a single dime for this season. We could get a decent RW, one more backup striker but nothing is happening. Forget it, that's what being a man utd fan after glazers came in. Year in year out, same shit with zero ambition.
 

reelworld

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That’s the reason why you always have the player you want to get, and a backup or two in case the deal doesn’t go through. By the looks of it, this just looks poorly planned. Even worse if we cave in now and end up paying what they wanted all along.
True. And United has been very poor in that regard. Lack of alternatives has been a huge issue since Fergie retired. United usually had a plan B that would work out equally or better in some cases. Targeted players would be more inclined to push for a transfer because they know if they don't get this move, United could get another player. We don't do that now
 

DevilRed

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This is ridiculous though. We should not lower expectations to nothing just because of a poor transfer window. We finished 3rd last season and we'll start this season with a better squad. It's disappointing that we're not taking steps to catch up to the top teams but the expectation should still be that we improve on last season's points total. Around 75 points is a reasonable target without signing anyone else. If we're mid-table in December, then our coaching team will have seriously fecked up.
I for one am looking at it optmistically. OGS has improved our young players and will continue to do so (hopefully) this coming season. It was a hallmark of what SAF used to do and we are following on a similar path.

Avoiding injuries will also be crucial for us. Last season was an absolute disaster on that front. I am hopeful that none of our key players get any serious injuries and that alone might earn us an extra 10 points.
 

Chief123

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Without Sancho, I'd be very surprised if we were to be honest. We just don't have the depth required for what is going to be a ridiculously intense season.
I’m a huge critic of Solskjaer. I don’t think the guy should ever have been appointed. But he gets a free pass from me this year.

When we completely fall to pieces in December and we are hovering mid table due to our players being exhausted, that will be 100% on the board!

A well run club would either have Sancho signed already or would Have walked away weeks ago and signed an alternative for the manager. It’s utterly insane that we are a couple of days away from our season resuming and this is the situation.
C’mon guys this is a serious over reaction. We are not going to fall to pieces by January. Yes, our squad is not as strong as we like but it’s the same for Spurs and Arsenal. Let’s not forget we had title winning form for the second half of the year. We have still added to that with VDB as well as having Bruno, Pogba, Ighalo, Henderson from the start of the season. I have full faith we will be adding Sancho to that and at least one more player.

You need to check Spurs and Arsenal squads to realise how thin their squads are quality wise. Even spurs starting lineup is pretty poor at the moment. Arsenal are having a purple patch while fielding some average players in their lineups. Those two clubs have bigger challenges in dealing with the intensity of a fixture packed season than Utd do.

Even our backup players would get into Spurs team. Fred and Mctominay would get ahead of Winks and Holjberg. Arsenal fielded Xhaka and Elneny as their midfield first game.
 

UncleBob

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Assuming that a brief even happened - doubtful in my view - then its rather obvious what the play is here. We are trying to put pressure on Dortmund to reduce the asking price.

How would you feel as a United fan if Barcelona were trying to buy Greenwood but wouldn't meet our asking price? Probably not a lot. What about if you then knew that the player had agreed terms with them? You'd be thinking 'he wants to go'.

Now look at it from Dortmunds perspective. They've already put a price tag on him - ie they are willing to sell him. Now the player has agree terms - ie he wants to go. As a fan of Dortmund you'd probably be questioning that players commitment to your club, and the club are also wondering if its worth keeping a player that wants to leave
Dortmunds perspective must be piss easy, as long as the player isn't being vocal about his desires to leave the club and acting like a cnut, combined with the fact that his value isn't likely to go down due to his contract length, there's no reason to ship him out.
 

El Zoido

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Dortmunds perspective must be piss easy, as long as the player isn't being vocal about his desires to leave the club and acting like a cnut, combined with the fact that his value isn't likely to go down due to his contract length, there's no reason to ship him out.
His value will go down if clubs have less money due to Covid. We can spend £100m this window but may not be able to next summer. If they want maximum value for him, they may not get more than they’d get right now. Nobody knows, Covid might disappear and clubs are minted again, that’s why there’s a standoff.
 

UncleBob

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Dortmund will be allowed to let in 20% of their max capacity in their opening match, as Germany is opening up for fans to attend matches again.

Good luck trying to force the price down
 

Glorio

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So Simon Stone and Ducker writing the exact same articles, within the same hour, using the same wording implies what exactly?
Anything ... Could be one or more journos hearing from a source who has been misinformed, or worse taking a shot in the dark, and someone else jumping on the bandwagon.

Could also be that there was in fact a briefing, but isn't this why clubs do it? Plausible deniability if things go pear-shaped due to lack of official proof?