He's not like Messi or Hazard that carried their teams, he"s just another quality player in Dortmund. Dortmund are fine without him as proven in their last three games. Now give them 100m on top and they could do some heavy investment on the squad. Sell a player you can live without and get 100m plus for it to invest
Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now
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There's only so much you can infer from stats. Players also exist who may individually have less on stats such as goals or assists or chance creation, but are equally important to the team.
I'm not really getting into a tiresome debate around Pogba and the circus that follows him from the media, agent side of things, however I do think he should bare some responsibility in keeping certain people quiet. His agent is pretty much his mouthpiece, so when he's chatting shit constantly and disrespecting the club it's not a good look. In fact it's worse when you just stay silent in the case of Raiola because he said some damning things about the club. It wouldn't be unreasonable to see any player come out and speak his own words about the matter or at least tell his agent to shut the feck up. Going by how Raiola has been a constant wind up merchant I wonder whether Pogba did either of those.
So who should we get? Because Messi and Hazard aren't available mate.
I completely agree with you, the discussion was deviated but my point is that Pogba is an important players and has not been surpased by either Bruno nor Fred.
Agreed. Anybody who says otherwise is ignoring the goals / assists numbers (not silly stats, just black and white numbers) and it's pretty much agenda driven.
It's a defeatist mentality to think Bruno is better than Pogba so we can afford to let the latter go. That's not what the best teams do, they accumulate talent, not replace one for another. I for one want to see both in the squad together.
you misunderstood me. I mean he does not carry Dortmund like the way Messi or Hazard carried their teams so if he goes, he would not be missed and Dortmund would gain alot considering they get 100m for a player that his absence would not be felt strongly
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52746083
Looking at the stats in this article, he actually kind of is...
4th best goal involvement in Europe, behind Messi, Mbappe and Lewandowski.
2nd best conversion rate in Europe behind Paco Alcacer.
The goal involvement chart for teenagers is ridiculous...
It's pretty clear to me that Mbappe, Haaland and Sancho are going to be the top 3 players in the world after Messi and Ronaldo hang up their boots. Saying Dortmund could happily live without him is kind of mental.
I see this repeated by a lot by PL fans but honestly, I can't remember Eden Hazard once 'carrying' a side in England as much as he's been praised to the high heavens and as much as people want to force him into that Ronaldo/Messi tier when in reality he's not even better than Neymar, De Bruyne or Griezmann.
The seasons he was on a title winning side in the league he had quite a bit of help in a 20 goal scorer with Costa along with a Fabregas who was still an elite playmaker and actually had more assists than him both times.
Those were title winning teams with managers still near the top of their game, not collectives 'carried' by any one individual...
Real Madrid wish he were that kind of player when for the money they paid for him last summer with less than a year left on his contract, his brother managed to match his full season production so far in his first match back with Dortmund after 2 months off
Not even going to mention his European form.
Sorry for a mini rant but it truly baffles me when I see people mention him in the same sentence as the true elite when he's rarely ever been at that level.
I do agree with you to an extent. He doesn't 'carry' them as in he's their only threat, but his numbers show he is a very important part of them. And citing the last 3 games isn't a great indicator. They've just lost the title. If he was fit and firing, who's to say he doesn't give Dortmund more of a threat v Bayern the other night?
Anyone with the G+A he has is a very important member of their team. But such is Dortmund, they'll no doubt replace him well and invest well in other areas too.
But back to my question, who else do we go for? I don't want a player dragging his team, I want a clever, inventive, creative player who fills a need in our team and wants to be here. He seems to fill those criteria.
Good post, but if we were to alter the last sentence to a more reasonable one: Dortmund would be wise to cash in on the max they can now, than risk losing such a commodity for cheaper next year.
A lot of our fans have this mentality where they need or rather want 1 player to carry the team as opposed to having a stacked team all over. It's funny because Barca fans are a lot of times angry that Messi has to carry the team and want a squad that shares more of the load.
Mbappe and Sancho yes, Haaland, this is his first great season. Lets wait and see for him to back it up next season before we dub him a future top 3 player in the world.
I’d take Rashford over Haaland anyday..
Sorry, he played an 8 along with a holding mid. Ok find me an 8 with Pogba numbers. Mctominay been consistent? How many games in a row has he played? I like McTominay but the jury is out on him. Maguire, had a rocky patch, and weve only had 75% of the season so far so you cannot say he has been consistent.
I agree Pogba has not had a season where he has consistently performed for the season but this also comes down to the number of changes in the team like you mentioned.
I strongly believe that if we have 8/11 of our players playing 70% of the games, Pogba will be consistent.
What we are seing under Ole, he will not put players under the bus, it helps players. Players like Shaw, Fred, McTominay, Rashford, Martial have all improved under Ole and I hope Pogba can come in and elevate this team.
Watching George Best in that Busby doc last night made me want us to sign Sancho even more.
I believe most of the caf would pay Dortmund more than 10m just to see him gone : )
Imo it'd be a really good deal. Dortmund get the cash and possibly a decent player, who can play across the AM, L/R wing. Maybe they can 'unlock' our Lingard and make him look decent. We get Sancho, £100k a week off our bill. Which means only another £100k added. Sancho probably get £200k a week if he comes I think. We may have to pay Lingard some money as I don't think he'd get £100k a week there.
I’d take Greenwood over Haaland.
I have watched Haaland twice over the past couple of weeks and he just reminds me of Lukaku but not as good.
What's so crazy about somebody saying they'd rather keep Greenwood over Haaland?I forgot how crazy of a place Caf could be
The first comment isn't that mad. Greenwood is an exceptional young player who might well be our biggest talent since the Co92.I forgot how crazy of a place Caf could be
The 2nd one is a joke though.
Even that tbh. Haaland is the football world’s new favourite son, but Lukaku gets nowhere near the respect he deserves. He’ll probably retire having scored over 400 goals and be viewed as some sort of joke. He’s a proper striker who has scored goals everywhere. He is a bit clumsy on the ball but Haaland is no Van Persie himself. He’s also just 19 and has a long way to go.
Scored everywhere against sh!te opposition, yeah. Useless in the Champions League, useless past the group stage of the world Cup/euros, useless against any opposition who don't give him an acre of space. They are uncomparable players.
Brace against PSG for us.
Judgement on Haaland has formed far too quickly, which is what always happens with wunderkinder. Of course he is a phenomenally talented player, and has just pulled off one of the best hot streaks I've ever seen. But we saw against Bayern the challenge he is going to have to face up to now that opposition teams are more aware of him. He is not rounded enough to excel without good service, and when that service is limited enough, he also starts to look limited. It's not to say that he won't overcome these challenges, just that it is far too early to declare a player an incomparable superstar at 19 when they've only just broken out.
Scored from two horrendous errors though. Probably his best game for us I think. I admired his work rate in that game and in precisely zero other games he played for us.
that’s insulting to the vast majority of strikers -
Let alone one of the hottest prospects in the world.
every day I wake up and am thankful we no longer have such an appalling no 9 playing for the club. Lukuku is the striker version of David Moyes - looked competent at a small club, couldn’t hack it at a decent club, and can’t stop talking about it ever since.
Er... we all like Greenwood, but his record/impact is no way near Haaland yet.
Who cares about the ‘records’ of two 19 year olds? Actually scratch that, an 18 year old and a 19 year old.
Greenwood is the bigger talent to me.
Of course we all cares.10 goals in 11 games in Bundesliga this season, 10 goals in 8 games in CL this season, 16 goals in 14 games in Austrian league too, this season along,, he scored 36 goals in 33 games. If he plays for us, I am sure many of us will be very happy.
It’s a good record, that isn’t the point. Mason Greenwood’s record at 17 and 18 this season is irrelevant. Rayan Cherki is widely regarded as the best teenager in the game. He’s probably scored one or two at most this season. He’s 16, it doesn’t make another teenager better. They are too young for their records to be relevant. Just watch them both. Greenwood is more talented to me. Even if he isn’t, he’s not less talented because Haaland scored more goals this season. That isn’t how it works for players their age.
I’ve watched them both play. Haaland is an average footballer but a fantastic striker/goalscorer. He has a nose for goal, but most importantly, he is physically ready to play as a centre forward right now. Main difference. Despite his superior goal tally, he isn’t even a better finisher than Greenwood. He isn’t as technically gifted either. I wouldn’t swap him for Greenwood in a million years.
Giggs saying today that Sancho, Rashford and Haaland are 3 best young players in the world
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-giggs-best-footballers-18331403
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/man-utd-giggs-best-footballers-18331403
No Mbappe? younger than Rashford by the way.
Yeah but in 3 years time they will all be at united except Mbappe
Yeh and Januzaj is more talented than Lampard. It doesn't matter. Haaland is definitely the hottest young player at the moment, alongside with Mbappe. Greenwood isn't anywhere near to that level yet. There's no point keep saying he is more talented. Maybe Greenwood is more talented and could be better than Messi in future, in someones' opinion, who knows, who cares? But he isn't better than Haaland right now, that's for sure.
Sancho is happening then
Can see Sancho being here but still see Haaland going elsewhere in the premier league when he does leave DortmundSancho is happening then
Your failing to grasp. Both players are fecking teenagers. Who scored more this season is in no way determinant as to who will be better.
Your attempted condescension by making a Lampard and Januzaj comparison is silly, given the differentiation in age. There is no point applying the logic I am applying here to experienced and developed players who we already know the sum total of. It doesn’t work. The point is, players in their teenage years are not necessarily the player they will ultimately become. Players who are already established as world class players do not apply. That said, I’ll humour you and use the respective teenage years of both Januzaj and Lampard. Januzaj looked far better. ‘Hotter’. The long run was very different.
‘Hottest’ means just that. Today’s news, flavour of the month - and in this case, is based literally on months of football, not years. You use Januzaj to mock my point, so I’ll use him back again. He was once also the ‘hottest’. It means feck all. It meant little for him and little for Haaland in terms of the player he will ultimately develop into.
A relatable comparison would be Rooney and Ronaldo as teenagers. There was a ‘Rooney is the better player’ consensus for a period, no doubt backed up by similar numbers that you threw at me in a prior post. Then there were some who thought Ronaldo was a bigger talent and would be a better player, backed up by watching him and projecting based on his abilities. Messi similarly. It would have meant little to say ‘I don’t care who you think is more talented, Rooney is the ‘hottest‘ now’, because at 18, it is all about development, which will happen at different rates.
In closing, I’ll repeat, I think Greenwood is a bigger talent than Haaland, and will be a better player, and I couldn’t care less about the respective goal returns of two teenagers, one of whom only turned 18 a few months ago. It matters very little at this stage in their career in terms of determining who will be the better player in the long run.
Who cares? Januzaj was still more talented than Lampard.
Right now, Haaland is miles ahead of Greenwood. But I am not saying Greenwood wouldn't be better than Halaand in future either. Its too early to judge, maybe Gomes will be Ballon D'or winner one day too, we just never know. But at this moment its totally out of the question. Maybe 5-10 years from now we can continue our discussion on this.
What I am just saying is, if we have Halaand now, we will be doing better.
If you think that Raiola isn’t making these comments at the direction of Pogba, you are naive. Same goes with his brother. Raiola’s fees are dependent upon Pogba... Transfers, wages.... He essentially works for Pogba. So going renegade and making inflammatory comments potentially puts millions of fees at risk. Why would he or anyone do that? Good way to get fired.
No one's saying Pogba isn't one of the most talented players on the planet. He is. But he is really inconsistent, and I believe even the most fervent, rabid Pogba fan would agree. When you are paying him 290K a week and paid 89m for him, I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for some consistency and leadership.
On to Sancho, because this is a thread about Jadon Sancho, not Paul Pogba. I've watched perhaps 60 Dortmund matches in the last two years. I can tell you with confidence that Jadon Sancho is a potential Ballon D'Or winner.
The anti-Sancho camp centers their argument essentially around three points: One, the Bundesliga is a crap league. No way he has as many goals and assists in the PL. Two, we have Greenwood, why do we need Sancho? Mason is better than Sancho already! Three, 100m is too much for a teenager.
First of all, there are too many successful transitions from Bundesliga to the PL. Are there flops? Yes. But many of the questions that surround a move (will he adjust to an English environment? Away from family? Culture? Food?) are not relevant, because the boy is English. Furthermore, he's already on the England squad and certainly did not look out of place.
Secondly, he is a different player than Mason. Sancho is a creator, Greenwood is a finisher. Sancho unlocks defenses and sets up his teammates. Mason is gifted at movement without the ball and finishing. If anything, why wouldn't we have both? Two of the most highly rated teenagers in the world? They should be playing together with Mason as a central striker and Sancho on the wing for years to come. Nothing would delight me more.
Thirdly, if we are not willing to spend to bring in top players as they are entering their prime, we might was well be Watford. We have the highest revenue of any club in the world. What's the point in having 300m in cash along with 150m credit line if we don't go after the world's biggest names? This kind of thinking will see us slowly fade into the background. Mbappe at 19 yrs old for 100m would have been a bargain.
For all of those who are against bringing in Sancho, I encourage you to watch him play full matches, as many as possible.
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