Julian Nagelsmann | Bayern Munich manager

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,055
Hasan "Brazzo" Salihamidzic is Bayern's DoF, so more like Murtough. CEO (similar to Woodward) is since this season Oliver Kahn, for many years it was Karl-Heinz Rummenigge.
Strange choice, considering he wasn't a particularly decent player anyway.
 

do.ob

Full Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
13,189
Location
Germany
Supports
Borussia Dortmund
But those guys advanced their playing concepts. Both adapted more and more elements of possession play and grew with their respective teams. Nagelsmann is no pressing and transition merchant but to me it seems his approach needs some fine tuning. Bayern has serious ups and downs. Can only speak for myself but they lack this invincibility feeling they emitted ever since 2013 or so. You used to watch them play and felt it was only a matter of time until they score. And after it was over, you thought that no matter how lucky things would have gone for the inferior team, there was zero chance of taking away anything countable. They used to take only very small risks but created an impossible to overcome surplus of chances out of it. That feeling of resignation is gone under Nagelsmann. The team doesn't look like this relentless marriage of control and creativity anymore.

So I think Nagelsmann needs to fine tune his system to better utilize the qualitaty advantage he holds over most other teams. And Klopp and Tuchel already did this a long time ago.
Nagelsmann steered Leipzig towards a (more) possession heavy approach, especially in their second season.
And being being less of an inevitable force is also down to Bayern themselves, they looked far from invincible for large parts under Flick, too. They lost their two starting CBs and Davies and Goretzka, two players who they have no replacements for, have been missing/unfit most of the season.

Strange choice, considering he wasn't a particularly decent player anyway.
Yeah.. how could they have gone with a mediocre player like Salihamidzic for their management position, when they had an all-time-great of the game like Matthäus available. He could have made a nice DoF duo with Stefan Effenberg.
 
Last edited:

BayernFan87

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Messages
925
I agree regarding Nagelsmann, but Bayern wemt through some phases since 2013 were they looked far from invincible. Usually shortly after they fired their managers.
Yeah about 90% of the time under Ancelotti and especially Kovac I didn't feel we're invincible at all.

What I can confirm is that we lost the consistency we had under Pep, Heynckes and Flick. Without looking it up it feels like we lost more games to underdogs this season than in the last 5-10 years.

And the ups and downs are pretty crazy: We lost to Frankfurt, smashed Leverkusen (5:1, with 5:0 after 30 minutes or so), Benfica and Hoffenheim (4:0), got humiliated by Gladbach (0:5) and finished with a 5:2 against Union Berlin. This was our october. With probably our single worst game in the last 10 years against Gladbach (i really only can think of the game when Klinsmann was our coach and where Barca completely dominanted us in what...2009?) and one of the best and most impressive against Leverkusen.
 

RedBanker

I love you Ole
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
1,881
No surprises that the most vocal critics on here are all extremely pro-Ole, for the most part. It's hilarious that this group regularly thrash other managers, while they vehemently defended a seriously underwhelming 3-years of Ole. Classic Caf :)
Nail on head.
 

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
3,071
Supports
Hannover 96
If they are criticising his tactics openly, they have to go.
It depends. If they kept it internally and ultimately followed him it should be ok to question and give feedback. Some kind of feedback culture should exist in every workplace, a football team isn't different in that regard.
 

RedDevilQuebecois

Full Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
2,858
Thomas Müller and Joshua Kimmich, I would say. That's about the only 2 players who have seen and tasted all tactical variations under various Bayern managers for years to make a strong opinion that could reach most of the dressing room.

In any case, Nagelsmann was clearly asking for trouble with the 3-man back line with one CB who is not exactly having a good time (Upamecano). Benjamin Pavard is not the most comfortable CB either, so the danger of being hit on a counterattack was always there. Bayern's recipe for success has often been a hybrid between 4-3-3 and 4-5-1, and having 5 men capable of defending (a back 4 and a CDM) is why they were solid for years defensively. Unless Nagelsmann can adapt his approach with that tenet, he will not lead Bayern that far in Europe when that is now their main objective in every season.
 
Last edited:

hellhunter

Eurofighter
Joined
Aug 5, 2011
Messages
14,321
Location
Stuttgart, Germany
Supports
Karlsruher SC
Nagelsmann steered Leipzig towards a (more) possession heavy approach, especially in their second season.
And being being less of an inevitable force is also down to Bayern themselves, they looked far from invincible for large parts under Flick, too. They lost their two starting CBs and Davies and Goretzka, two players who they have no replacements for, have been missing/unfit most of the season.



Yeah.. how could they have gone with a mediocre player like Salihamidzic for their management position, when they had an all-time-great of the game like Matthäus available. He could have made a nice DoF duo with Stefan Effenberg.
Oh lord :drool:
 

kaiser1

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
1,280
Supports
Bayern Munich
Again, I think you're being to harsh.

Davies was a winger that was converted to a full back, how is he not a perfect fit for a left wingback?
Gnabry was also tested as a right fullback by Nagelsmann at Hoffenheim and Kovac at Bayern.
Coman also recently played as right wingback for the french national team.
It's not like Nagelsmann puts where no other coach would see them. And we're speaking about the positions winger or wingback, the difference isn't that big. They're basically wingers with more defensive duties.
Regarding the other points:
- The 5-0 loss in the cup was "once in a decade" game. We were very bad, but Gladbach played like they were peak Pep Barca, it was insane
- Saying we're "mediocre" in the league is very critical considering statistically (points and goal difference after 29 games) we play our best season in the last 4 years
The skillset needed to play wingback is much different than from Wingers. Most wingbacks are people who used to play as full backs, as defensive solidity is the first thing.
Chelsea is one big team that plays 3 at the back and they use James, Alonso and Chilwell for it. These players are defenders first.
Its not like they are trying Ziyech, Werner and Pulisic at wingbacks vs Madrid.
Sane, Coman, Gnabry are wingers first and will not work as wing backs as they are defensively deficient
A crucial CL knockout is not where you try out tactics that players are unfamiliar with.
Most of these players have played the vast part of their careers in a 4231 or 433. Now turning them into wingbacks overnight will not cut it vs top sides.
We have been struggling in the league since January and the poor form of the following pack is why we are still topping the table

This season is a failure in my books
 

kaiser1

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
1,280
Supports
Bayern Munich
Didn't know, they seemed to be great captains , liked both of em.

Shame they're almost as controversy prone as we are.
Just like Roy Keane was for Man Utd. Great captain but will never be FO material
 

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,055
Just like Roy Keane was for Man Utd. Great captain but will never be FO material
Well roy was and is very aggressive which doesn't fly in the business world and while you could say that about effenberg as he certainly gave that intense vibe i never got that from matthuas who gave much more calm lead by example vibe so that surprises me to be honest.
Though I'm aware matthaus apparently has a problem of keeping club secrets to himself :lol:
 

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,055
You never heard the term "FC Hollywood" for them? That was created due to the quite public "discussions" sometimes happening there.
I'm aware of some of the bizarre press conferences by the board over there and their annual membership meetings i just thought that the Hollywood nickname was for them scoring a shit ton of goals and dominating German football.
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
58,546
Location
France
I'm aware of some of the bizarre press conferences by the board over there and their annual membership meetings i just thought that the Hollywood nickname was for them scoring a shit ton of goals and dominating German football.
The FC Hollywood was for the fact that Bayern can't avoid drama and since they are a pretty big deal in Germany things tend to be aired nationally and publicly.
 

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
3,071
Supports
Hannover 96
The FC Hollywood was for the fact that Bayern can't avoid drama and since they are a pretty big deal in Germany things tend to be aired nationally and publicly.
And it goes back to a time before Bayern was as dominant as they are today. Actually it might have been their weakest period in the last 50 years.
 

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,055
The FC Hollywood was for the fact that Bayern can't avoid drama and since they are a pretty big deal in Germany things tend to be aired nationally and publicly.
And it goes back to a time before Bayern was as dominant as they are today. Actually it might have been their weakest period in the last 50 years.
Surprisingly how successful they've been with this going on.
 

stefan92

Full Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2021
Messages
3,071
Supports
Hannover 96
Surprisingly how successful they've been with this going on.
It mostly happened because they assembled great players and strong characters. It's what you need for a winning team, but it also migh result on clashs over stuff players in other clubs wouldn't care about.
 

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,055
It mostly happened because they assembled great players and strong characters. It's what you need for a winning team, but it also migh result on clashs over stuff players in other clubs wouldn't care about.
Hopefully we'll learn a thing or two from it.
 

TheGame

Full Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Messages
12,479
No idea how Thomas Muller gets into the team for them. One of the most overrated players there has been. Naglesman is still a good manager, probably expected more this season but that's the high standards expected of him and Bayern.
 

TheGame

Full Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2002
Messages
12,479
The skillset needed to play wingback is much different than from Wingers. Most wingbacks are people who used to play as full backs, as defensive solidity is the first thing.
Chelsea is one big team that plays 3 at the back and they use James, Alonso and Chilwell for it. These players are defenders first.
Its not like they are trying Ziyech, Werner and Pulisic at wingbacks vs Madrid.
Sane, Coman, Gnabry are wingers first and will not work as wing backs as they are defensively deficient
A crucial CL knockout is not where you try out tactics that players are unfamiliar with.
Most of these players have played the vast part of their careers in a 4231 or 433. Now turning them into wingbacks overnight will not cut it vs top sides.
We have been struggling in the league since January and the poor form of the following pack is why we are still topping the table

This season is a failure in my books
I have no idea what system they were playing last night. It seems they were making it overly complicated whereas they should have stuck with a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1.
 

weetee

Full Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2021
Messages
712
Location
I'm village this game
Supports
no-one in particular
Personally I always thought the „FC Hollywood“ controversy a clever method to stay in the tabloids and get media attention 24/7 even though the sporting results didn‘t warrant it in that era. Must say it did work out.
 

Tavern in the town

New Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2022
Messages
1,532
It should’ve been obvious he was a bad manager the moment he turned up to OT dressed like Neil from the Inbetweeners.
 

Red the Bear

Something less generic
Joined
Aug 26, 2021
Messages
6,055
No idea how Thomas Muller gets into the team for them. One of the most overrated players there has been. Naglesman is still a good manager, probably expected more this season but that's the high standards expected of him and Bayern.
Come on , they wouldn't have won either of their trebles if he wasn't there. Also puts up amazing numbers
 

JPRouve

can't stop thinking about balls - NOT deflategate
Scout
Joined
Jan 31, 2014
Messages
58,546
Location
France
No idea how Thomas Muller gets into the team for them. One of the most overrated players there has been. Naglesman is still a good manager, probably expected more this season but that's the high standards expected of him and Bayern.
He gets in the team by registering around 20 assists per season in the league in the last 3 seasons. And by being the player that creates the most in Bundesliga.
 

BayernFan87

Full Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2014
Messages
925
Thomas Müller and Joshua Kimmich, I would say. That's about the only the only 2 players who have seen and tasted all tactical variations under various Bayern managers for years to make a strong opinion that could reach most of the dressing room.

In any case, Nagelsmann was clearly asking for trouble with the 3-man back line with one CB who is not exactly having a good time (Upamecano). Benjamin Pavard is not the most comfortable CB either, so the danger of being hit on a counterattack was always there. Bayern's recipe for success has often been a hybrid between 4-3-3 and 4-5-1, and having 5 men capable of defending (a back 4 and a CDM) is why they were solid for years defensively. Unless Nagelsmann can adapt his approach with that tenet, he will not lead Bayern that far in Europe when that is now their main objective in every season.
I think one of them is Lewandowski because there were several rumors and articles in the last few months that said, that Lewy wouldn't be to happy with our tactics.
If it's true I don't really know why because just judging the numbers (his goals and the amount of chances he had) he's not in a worse situation than last year.
 

goalscholes

Full Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2021
Messages
315
They didn't really. Over the two legs Villareal had the best and most clear cut chances.
Bayerns xG was 2.6 over the two legs, compared with 2.0 for Villareal.

Statistically, the chances Bayern had over the two legs typically would have led to a greater number of goals than Villareal’s.
 

Oranges038

Full Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2020
Messages
5,249
Bayerns xG was 2.6 over the two legs, compared with 2.0 for Villareal.

Statistically, the chances Bayern had over the two legs typically would have led to a greater number of goals than Villareal’s.
Oh wow.. A whole .6 of xg.... I watched the majority of both legs and can safely say Villareal easily had the better of the chances.
 

kaiser1

Full Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2018
Messages
1,280
Supports
Bayern Munich
Oh wow.. A whole .6 of xg.... I watched the majority of both legs and can safely say Villareal easily had the better of the chances.
Same thing I saw as well. Aside the goal, The other chance was the Muller header off target

Villareal had like 4 clear chances first leg and 2 in the return leg
 
X