Jurriën Timber

Van Piorsing

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I mean every manager becomes out of touch eventually (Ferguson being a massive outlier in that regard) - we've seen that with Mourinho who looked completely unstoppable for some time and I'm sure we'll eventually see it with Guardiola and Klopp in time. But by the time he came to United, LvG was way past his peak and I don't think he should be judged on that. Like judging Messi's career based on his time with PSG.
Let me it say this way. ETH have a lot more to offer for United than LvG and by that criteria Ten Hag is simply better for us and that's exactly what interests me at the moment. Potential targets like Timber, Antony and Martinez all sound grateful to their club manager for their dream start to their careers. They definitely will not ignore their mentor, while we're still even not sure how good Holland will be prepared for WC. There's possibility Louie will go after tournament and it'll be good time for players to take next step in their careers. This is where Ten Hag's influence will still be on the table.

LvG was past his best indeed, but he still took the United job and from what I hear now, he doesn't want to take full responsibility for what he did and he clearly messed more than few things along the way.
 

Mainoldo

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So why bother switching clubs then? Why not stay in the comfort zone ?
Can we just be realistic. The World Cup isn’t next summer it’s in November.

He’s also 20 years old. Not a seasoned pro like Ake. It would be like Mengi having a break through season then going to Real Madrid to play a bit part and everyone being upset that he got left out to Tomora who starts every week for his club.

It’s happens to Camavinga with France. It’s just the chances you take. However being so close to a World Cup it’s not a big deal to miss out on this move at the age of 20. Big deal.
 

Adebisi's Hat

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I don’t think that’s fair, timber is a 20 year old who may think it’s important to listen to his national coach.
I actually thinks it a good point made by the Paddock lads,. If ETH plans on starting him regularly, Timber will need to be confident in his own abilities straight away or else he will be torn apart in the EPL. He seems to have the confidence of ETH and that should be enough for him. It would raise a question mark over his mentality, even at 20.
 

golden_blunder

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I actually thinks it a good point made by the Paddock lads,. If ETH plans on starting him regularly, Timber will need to be confident in his own abilities straight away or else he will be torn apart in the EPL. He seems to have the confidence of ETH and that should be enough for him. It would raise a question mark over his mentality, even at 20.
Meh. I don’t agree with that at all. Hes a young lad that’s broken through to the Ajax team at 18 and talked about as a future captain. I don’t think he’s got a mentality issue at all. I also think it’s a bit naff of us as fans to start narratives based on the fact he may choose to stay at Ajax this year. He’s young and got its whole career ahead of him.
 
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El-Manos

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Can we just be realistic. The World Cup isn’t next summer it’s in November.

He’s also 20 years old. Not a seasoned pro like Ake. It would be like Mengi having a break through season then going to Real Madrid to play a bit part and everyone being upset that he got left out to Tomora who starts every week for his club.

It’s happens to Camavinga with France. It’s just the chances you take. However being so close to a World Cup it’s not a big deal to miss out on this move at the age of 20. Big deal.
But it is a big deal though? Who says these offers will be around for him next season? This is a huge risk on his part to decline a move of this magnitude. Both in terms of financial/career aspirations. You could easily argue it’s not a big deal to potentially miss out on starting in a WC if it means he can make a step forward in his career. He is only 20 as you just said so yourself, plenty of WC and euros to look forward to.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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But it is a big deal though? Who says these offers will be around for him next season? This is a huge risk on his part to decline a move of this magnitude. Both in terms of financial/career aspirations. You could easily argue it’s not a big deal to potentially miss out on starting in a WC if it means he can make a step forward in his career. He is only 20 as you just said so yourself, plenty of WC and euros to look forward to.
Kids get criticised all the time for making their big moves too soon and then having their progress stall as a result of not getting the playing time they need.

He’s at a champions league club and you seem to be criticising him for not having the ambition to move to a Europa league club. He’s dead e right to hang on for a year. He’ll likely guarantee himself a World Cup spot, get more minutes in the champions league and get a big move next season to another Champions League team whether it’s us or not.
 

El-Manos

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Kids get criticised all the time for making their big moves too soon and then having their progress stall as a result of not getting the playing time they need.

He’s at a champions league club and you seem to be criticising him for not having the ambition to move to a Europa league club. He’s dead e right to hang on for a year. He’ll likely guarantee himself a World Cup spot, get more minutes in the champions league and get a big move next season to another Champions League team whether it’s us or not.
Absolutely no guarantee that he will. Those offers might not be there for him next season.
 

golden_blunder

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Absolutely no guarantee that he will. Those offers might not be there for him next season.
But he’s only 20. Im sure he backs himself that the clubs will come knocking again. Perhaps not just United next time too. I don’t call that a mentality problem like he’s some kind of shrinking violet.
 

Stadjer

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Absolutely no guarantee that he will. Those offers might not be there for him next season.
Ofcourse there are no guarantees. He could break his leg and never come back to his current level. Who knows. However if he keeps up his current Ajax form (or improves like many Ajax players do) and plays well at the world cup im sure he will get the chance to join a big club in a better league.
 

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Regarding mentality etc for not joining us at all costs - we’re not the biggest and best club anymore, he could be thinking if he has a great tournament and seasons at Ajax/NED he can have a pick of all the top teams.
 

ThierryHenry14

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Absolutely no guarantee that he will. Those offers might not be there for him next season.
If he is good he will get his big move eventually. Game time is very important for young players and that's why so many talent young players pick BVB instead of the traditional big club for their development. Nothing wrong with that. I highly doubt Haaland regret his decision not joining Man Utd back then either.
 
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El-Manos

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Ofcourse there are no guarantees. He could break his leg and never come back to his current level. Who knows. However if he keeps up his current Ajax form (or improves like many Ajax players do) and plays well at the world cup im sure he will get the chance to join a big club in a better league.
Regarding mentality etc for not joining us at all costs - we’re not the biggest and best club anymore, he could be thinking if he has a great tournament and seasons at Ajax/NED he can have a pick of all the top teams.
That is exactly my point. Knowing us, we are probably trebling his wages. Reportedly, the only reason he is adamant on staying put is because Louis Van Gaal said he might lose his spot ( who clearly has some silly vendetta against United at the moment). It's not like he has tough competition here.... He could easily displace any of our starting defenders.
 

ThierryHenry14

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That is exactly my point. Knowing us, we are probably trebling his wages. Reportedly, the only reason he is adamant on staying put is because Louis Van Gaal said he might lose his spot ( who clearly has some silly vendetta against United at the moment). It's not like he has tough competition here.... He could easily displace any of our starting defenders.
If he plays every game for Man Utd he won't lose his spot in national team.
 

El-Manos

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If he is good he will get his big move eventually. Game time is very important for young players and that's why so many talent young players pick BVB instead of the traditional big club for their development. Nothing wrong with that. I highly doubt Haaland regret his decision not joining Man Utd back then either.
Haaland turned out to be a super star. Not every player turns out like that. Do you remember that striker Belotti? Had every club chasing him. He waited another year for his “development” - despite having offers from top premier league clubs. Guess where he is playing now?
 

ThierryHenry14

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Haaland turned out to be a super star. Not every player turns out like that. Do you remember that striker Belotti? Had every club chasing him. He waited another year for his “development” - despite having offers from top premier league clubs. Guess where he is playing now?
If he is not that good then Man Utd probably doesn't want another player on high wages sitting on the bench either. So either he is a good talent and continue his development in Ajax instead of the bench of Man Utd, or he is shit and sit on the bench of Man Utd on high wages. Pick one.
 

RedDevil@84

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We can't afford such expensive players.
 

El-Manos

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If he is not that good then Man Utd probably doesn't want another player on high wages sitting on the bench either. So either he is a good talent and continue his development in Ajax instead of the bench of Man Utd, or he is shit and sit on the bench of Man Utd on high wages. Pick one.
That’s not the argument, you’re just blindly commenting on this now. I don’t think we need him at all as we have more urgent positions to address.
 

ThierryHenry14

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That’s not the argument, you’re just blindly commenting on this now. I don’t think we need him at all as we have more urgent positions to address.
Seems like it is all eggs on FDJ at the moment. Everything else is on hold.
 

wolvored

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Hes 20 and got a great chance of playing in the WC. VG has frightened him with the if you go to Utd and dont play ... He knows the hatred VG has of Utd, so why risk it when more than likely he will sign for us or asomeone else next season?
 

Bloedrood

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A good point well made
Not really, Aké has little competition for his position, while Timber has some of the toughest competition in the team. Van Gaal prefers a left footed central defender on that leftside especially when they play with 3 at the back. Blind is the only real competition/alternative, but he currently starts at leftback/wingback for the Dutch team. Botman isn't really rated because he's considered too limited in possession. For Timber it's different, there's 4 good right footed central defenders, Timber, Van Dijk, De Vrij and De Ligt for those 2 other central defense positions. Lack of playing time could easily loose him his starting position.
 

Kaushal

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Haaland turned out to be a super star. Not every player turns out like that. Do you remember that striker Belotti? Had every club chasing him. He waited another year for his “development” - despite having offers from top premier league clubs. Guess where he is playing now?
Atleast give a correct example, mate. Who was chasing belotti ? Which top premier clubs made offers ? It was all the talk of Urbano Cairo talking about belotti and his 100m price every second day trying to drum up the interest in him begging someone, anyone to buy him and give as much money as possible just like Claudio Lolito and de laurentiis always do with their players. Either you are not familiar with how Italian clubs and their chairmen/presidents operate or you are too naive to believe everything and the bolded part is just :lol:. Sorry but the truth is nobody bought that bullshit story from Torino.
 
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charlenefan

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Not really, Aké has little competition for his position, while Timber has some of the toughest competition in the team. Van Gaal prefers a left footed central defender on that leftside especially when they play with 3 at the back. Blind is the only real competition/alternative, but he currently starts at leftback/wingback for the Dutch team. Botman isn't really rated because he's considered too limited in possession. For Timber it's different, there's 4 good right footed central defenders, Timber, Van Dijk, De Vrij and De Ligt for those 2 other central defense positions. Lack of playing time could easily loose him his starting position.
If that's what LVG is thinking then it's BS

You can barely play for your club but because you're one of the few left footed CB's I'll still pick you but if you barely play (and Timber would definitely play more for us next season than Ake would for City) and you're right footed your out?
 

ThierryHenry14

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If that's what LVG is thinking then it's BS

You can barely play for your club but because you're one of the few left footed CB's I'll still pick you but if you barely play (and Timber would definitely play more for us next season than Ake would for City) and you're right footed your out?
I don't even think it is a secret for LVG's tactic.
 

pcaming

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Not really, Aké has little competition for his position, while Timber has some of the toughest competition in the team. Van Gaal prefers a left footed central defender on that leftside especially when they play with 3 at the back. Blind is the only real competition/alternative, but he currently starts at leftback/wingback for the Dutch team. Botman isn't really rated because he's considered too limited in possession. For Timber it's different, there's 4 good right footed central defenders, Timber, Van Dijk, De Vrij and De Ligt for those 2 other central defense positions. Lack of playing time could easily loose him his starting position.
Are they not already ahead of him in the pecking order?
 

Bloedrood

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If that's what LVG is thinking then it's BS

You can barely play for your club but because you're one of the few left footed CB's I'll still pick you but if you barely play (and Timber would definitely play more for us next season than Ake would for City) and you're right footed your out?
Not just because he's left footed, also because he's a lot better than his competition on that side. Timber is barely holding on to his starting position as it is, he's only started 2 games recently, and got substituted in the 2nd one because he was poor. Which isn't strange, I'd be surprised if some people here wouldn't rather get De Ligt than Timber right now if money wasn't an issue. Take that in mind, Timber has recently started ahead of him. And you can't say Timber would play much in those 3 months before the World Cup. A young player moving to a different country and league for the first time, he might need time to settle and adjust. Realistically I'd expect both Ten Hag and Timber to think the same.

Are they not already ahead of him in the pecking order?
Not at the moment when they play with 3 central defenders. Only Van Dijk but he starts in the middle of those 3. Timber is basically seen as ideal player on the right side of those 3, because he's more versatile and quicker. It's basically a role inbetween central defender and rightback, central defender when not in possession and rightback when in possession. Which suits him perfectly with his background and qualities. Aké on the left side also has that versatile background as defender, leftback and midfielder, which makes him fit that role well also, but he's not fast.

Timber started the Nations League games against Belgium and Poland when they played their A team, ahead of De Ligt and De Vrij. But he was substituted in the 2nd game because he wasn't doing well. The other 2 games against Wales they started all the bench players.
 
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croadyman

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Hes 20 and got a great chance of playing in the WC. VG has frightened him with the if you go to Utd and dont play ... He knows the hatred VG has of Utd, so why risk it when more than likely he will sign for us or asomeone else next season?
Yeah clearly LVG has got into his head
 

NoPace

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Atleast give a correct example, mate. Who was chasing belotti ? Which top premier clubs made offers ? It was all the talk of Urbano Cairo talking about belotti and his 100m price every second day trying to drum up the interest in him begging someone, anyone to buy him and give as much money as possible just like Claudio Lolito and de laurentiis always do with their players. Either you are not familiar with how Italian clubs and their chairmen/presidents operate or you are too naive to believe everything and the bolded part is just :lol:. Sorry but the truth is nobody bought that bullshit story from Torino.
Even if 100M was bullshit, and I agree it was, you have to think someone would have offered 40-50M for Belotti and gotten a decent 10-12 goal #9 in return and been disappointed.
 

phelans shorts

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I actually thinks it a good point made by the Paddock lads,. If ETH plans on starting him regularly, Timber will need to be confident in his own abilities straight away or else he will be torn apart in the EPL. He seems to have the confidence of ETH and that should be enough for him. It would raise a question mark over his mentality, even at 20.
Nah, it’s absolute nonsense pop psychology. He’s in a position where he doesn’t need to take a risk, and we are a massive risk in many, many ways. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with turning down the bigger money we’re offering because he can A) make the same move next year or B) get an even better offer next year.

Moving to us makes no actual sense when you consider it from him perspective. Moving is far more likely to have negative repercussions in the short term, so why bother?
 

sullydnl

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Nah, it’s absolute nonsense pop psychology. He’s in a position where he doesn’t need to take a risk, and we are a massive risk in many, many ways. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with turning down the bigger money we’re offering because he can A) make the same move next year or B) get an even better offer next year.

Moving to us makes no actual sense when you consider it from him perspective. Moving is far more likely to have negative repercussions in the short term, so why bother?
Yep. You could just as easily argue that being willing to turn us down is a sign of the self-belief he has as he obviously thinks he'll have the opportunity to move to a major side again on his own terms.
 

Cypriot

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Yep. You could just as easily argue that being willing to turn us down is a sign of the self-belief he has as he obviously thinks he'll have the opportunity to move to a major side again on his own terms.
Exactly this. This is not me being negative about my club - I really hope and believe we will get back to where we were eventually, but as it stands our current project is not attractive enough to risk a World Cup spot on. He knows we will be back in for him next summer too. It’s also possible we could be glad to have dodged a bullet then. Lastly, I’d imagine that he’s also spoken to ETH if all the news has been true so far.
 

Daslogisch

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If that's what LVG is thinking then it's BS

You can barely play for your club but because you're one of the few left footed CB's I'll still pick you but if you barely play (and Timber would definitely play more for us next season than Ake would for City) and you're right footed your out?
This is what Van Gaal is thinking and he's always been thinking like this. It's not a secret and has nothing to do with United hating which some idiots seem to think. It's just his philosophy. I don't agree with it either, although I see the benefits. However I would find it strange to see De Ligt or De Vrij sitting on the bench when Ake is playing CB because he's left-footed. That is odd and does not feel right. But Van Gaal looks inclined to do it. Although nothing is yet sure, of course if the difference in quality is too big he might play a right-footed CB but it really is his second option. He will make that assessment just before the WC and then we'll see who'll be playing LCB for Holland.

Nevertheless Van Gaal is totally in his right to warn a young inexperienced player to make wise decisions. Even Wijnaldum was left out of the last NT squad becuase he has not been playing enough for PSG. By leaving him out Van Gaal basicly said to him that he better moves away from PSG otherwise his WC is in serious danger. It's not just Timber and especially not because he was being targeted by Man United. That is one of the most ridiculous conspiracies on this forum. It's beyond ridiculous. Even if Van Gaal hates United (which he doesn't, if anything he might hold a grudge against individuals like Woodward, but that's not the club), he wouldn't let that stand in the way of his professional judgement.
 

Daslogisch

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Not just because he's left footed, also because he's a lot better than his competition on that side. Timber is barely holding on to his starting position as it is, he's only started 2 games recently, and got substituted in the 2nd one because he was poor. Which isn't strange, I'd be surprised if some people here wouldn't rather get De Ligt than Timber right now if money wasn't an issue. Take that in mind, Timber has recently started ahead of him. And you can't say Timber would play much in those 3 months before the World Cup. A young player moving to a different country and league for the first time, he might need time to settle and adjust. Realistically I'd expect both Ten Hag and Timber to think the same.


Not at the moment when they play with 3 central defenders. Only Van Dijk but he starts in the middle of those 3. Timber is basically seen as ideal player on the right side of those 3, because he's more versatile and quicker. It's basically a role inbetween central defender and rightback, central defender when not in possession and rightback when in possession. Which suits him perfectly with his background and qualities. Aké on the left side also has that versatile background as defender, leftback and midfielder, which makes him fit that role well also, but he's not fast.

Timber started the Nations League games against Belgium and Poland when they played their A team, ahead of De Ligt and De Vrij. But he was substituted in the 2nd game because he wasn't doing well. The other 2 games against Wales they started all the bench players.
I think Van Gaal was just mixing it up though. I don't think Timber is v.Gaal's first option for RCB. He's really fond of De Vrij as well. Personally I have him 90% (at least) favorite to be one of the three CB places (most likely RCB). Then the third spot is up for grabs, which does seem likely to go to a left-footed player. I still think Blind could end up there. I think Blind is on the left side because Van Gaal is not convinced of WIjndal and Malacia, mainly in tactical sense. Ggoing up and down the flank doesn't only require speed and endurance, but maybe even more so tactical ability to find the right moments to go forward or stay in midfield etc and obviously that's where Blind stands out. However if Wijndal or Malacia evolve and convince Van Gaal that they can do the job at LB I think the most likely scenario is that Blind ends up at LCB.

If Blind stays at LB, it's a question whether v.Gaal sticks with his left-footed fetish or if he feels in the end that the quality difference between Aké and De Ligt/Timber is too big. In the latter scenario obviously Timber and De Ligt have a chance to take that position (in which case I think VVD will be LCB, De Vrij will take the middle position and Timber or De Ligt the RCB place). Anyway it's kind of crazy to talk about Dutch CB's like this. There were times that he didn't know how we were ever going to defend our goal with the defenders available and now we have a luxury problem. Sadly now these problems are in attack. If only we had Kluivert or Van Nistelrooy there now... :lol:
 

Cassidy

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Also I doubt Ten Hag would have just given up on Timber and not given him a call after LVG got in his ear