My analysis of Barcelona 3-1 Arsenal, 2011. AKA the RVP red card game.

matbezlima

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The Barcelona 3-1 Arsenal game from 2011 was very weird. Despite being so one-sided, Barcelona dominating and controlling the match so much while Arsenal didn't shoot even once, Barcelona wasn't really at their best, and obviously neither were Arsenal. It was a weird match. The Van Persie sending off overshadows too much the discussion of the match as a whole. I'll try to avoid this.

First, we need the context of the first leg. It finished with Arsenal winning 2-1 in one of the most brilliant UCL games of the decade, the speed of play, intense pressing, high line from both teams and, above all, the pure spectacle of skills, technique and precise passing in tight spaces with short time had been a marvel to behold. Barcelona went ahead and were truly brilliant in the first half and seemingly in total control of the match during almost the entire second half. Their football was astonishing and they superior for most of the game, but Arsenal was still pure class playing very high technical level football in their own right and created a good amount of great chances in counter-attacks. Still, Villa scored the first goal and Messi was uncharacteristically wasteful in front of the goal. Messi also had a goal wrongly ruled out as offside. Complacency slowly took over Barcelona, satisfied with a 1-0 victory away, while Guardiola inexplicably took out Villa, who had been Barcelona's best attacking player on the night, to put Keita! It must be one of the worst substitutions that Guardiola has ever made and perfectly showcases how complacent Barcelona had become in the match, thinking that the 1-0 victory was sure. Wenger, though, was great in his substitutions. Arsenal never stopped having good counter-attacks, never stopped believing. They scored two goals very late in the match and very quickly, leaving Barcelona truly dizzed and surprised, shocked at what had just happened in a match seemingly decided and in total control. Barcelona went back to attacking Arsenal, but the calmness and assuredness that had defined Barcelona in the whole match was gone. As Michael Cox wrote: "Barcelona had gone into their shell and found impossible to re-emerge as an attacking threat again". Arsenal's best player in the match was Wilshere.

Piqué was suspended for the second leg while Puyol was injured, meaning that Busquets and Abidal had to play as centre-backs. Mascherano had to be Barcelona's DM. Fábregas and Van Persie for Arsenal were coming from injury, not 100%, but still played. While the first leg had been a cracking game, the second leg was really dull in comparison. Not only it was a terribly one-sided game, but Barcelona didn't even need to play at their best levels, not even close, to have this ridiculous dominance. Arsenal, meanwhile, could not string 4 passes together, always well closed down by Barcelona's great pressing, and could not shoot once. But I'm getting ahead of myself, let's start from the beginning of the match. Barcelona was expected to attack Arsenal with devastating speed and precision from the very first minute, to score an early goal. It was how Barcelona usually played. But maybe the makeshift defence combined with Mascherano and midfield were responsible for the team changing this for the match. Barcelona started slowly, playing keep-ball, looking laborious and maybe too patient in attack. Barcelona was overly conservative and often sterile in the first half, probably not wanting to risk an Arsenal counter-attack, since Barcelona's defense in this match was obviously so far from ideal. Arsenal weren't unhappy with this scenario and, far more than Barcelona, also played a more conservative game than usual. Arsenal didn't really park the bus though, but they were seriously lacking quality whenever they tried to counter-attack and get through Barcelona's first excellent line of pressing, the opposite of how well they had played in the first leg.

Barcelona passed the ball in midfield well as usual, but they clearly looked off-color, edgy and imprecise in the final third. Barcelona had already started to look fatigued, off-color and imprecise like this in their four La Liga games after the first leg against Arsenal and before the second leg. Barcelona had won all of them, but were far from great and very well below their best. They were in a relatively poor run of form when it comes to the level of their football (in comparison to their crazily high standards of course). When I talk about Barcelona's problems in the final third during the second half, I mean that their though balls, triangulations, dribbling and passing combinations close to Arsenal's box were being really laborious and lacked sharpness and precision, not giving Arsenal too much trouble in intercepting all these passes. Bad decision-making was also a big problem. For example, Messi was being uncharacteristically selfish, trying to dribble everyone all by himself and, at least twice in the second half, Messi had a perfectly free teammate in great and better position to pass the ball, but Messi preferred to keep dribbling and eventually losed possession. Villa also had started his period of crisis in the season, in which he would spend months without scoring, lacking sharpness and overall confidence in his shooting and his skills. Pedro also was going through a slump. In the end, despite being overly cautions, Barcelona scored in the end of the first half a great goal by Messi with a great assist by Iniesta after again great pressing by Barcelona and a ludicrous backheel by Fábregas created the goal chance.

The first half also potentially had a penalty not given, when Messi was took down on the box's edge. Have your own opinions if it was a penalty or not, you can easily find it in highlights of the game. Other two controversial moments in the first half were Van Persie slapping Alves and only getting a yellow. This, if I'm not mistaken, was responsible for making Abidal really angry at Van Persie to the point that Abidal grabbed Van Persie's neck! The referee ignored complaints from both sides and didn't send off neither Van Persie and neither Abidal.

The second half started similarly as the first. Arsenal needed a goal, but were unable to trouble Barcelona or make any remotely decent count-attack. Arsenal was toothless and Barcelona in seemingly total control. Arsenal then was able, with a player individual run in the wing, to get a corner. Then Busquets terribly scored an own goal! Arsenal had scored a goal out of nowhere and Barcelona had to score more goals! This own goal, though, could add some urgency and speed to Barcelona's play that had previously lacked in the match. Right after the own goal, Barcelona was electrified and created a great chance! Then, Van Persie was sent off! I agree that it is one of the most baffling and weirdest sending offs that I ever saw. But I still hold my opinion that, of all 11 players that Arsenal had on the pitch, Van Persie's sending off was the least worse that it could happen. Van Persie was totally isolated and had barely touched the ball in the whole match, totally null. He was 100% and Arsenal could never get past the midfield in a good counter-attack. Much worse would be the situation if Koscielny, or any other player from the defense and midfield really, had been sent off, and Koscielny flirted with the red card constantly throughout the match. Anyway, Barcelona truly became rampant and fast, now creating great and clear chances after chances and Arsenal totally powerless. Barcelona's best football started to appear, as it had since the own goal, but their difficulties in the final third remained, this time with terrible shooting. Barcelona should have scored 7 or 8 goals at least. They shouldn't have been in the situation nearly at the end of the match in which Arsenal had a good chance with Bendtner after Mascherano's mistake. It's really weird and freakish that despite being so much superior, one of the most one-sided matches that you will ever see between top teams, and creating so many goal chances, poor finishing meant that Barcelona were so close to being knocked out with Arsenal's only chance in the entire game!

Well, these are my final thoughts: no matter how great of a team you are, you always need at least a little bit of luck or even bad refereeing decisions to win big titles. And, on the course of the tie as a whole, the bad decisions for both teams ultimately evened out in the end and Barcelona was far superior and totally deserving of going through.

Personally, my favorite case of luck deciding the fate of an all-time great side was Sacchi's Milan against Red Star in 1988. Milan drew 1-1 at home and were losing the second leg 1-0 at Belgrado with 10 men when a mist forced the match's interruption and another match was re-scheduled. If Milan had been eliminated, they two consecutive European Cup titles would not happen because only league winners and the champion participated from the European Cup. Sacchi would finish the season 1988-1989 without titles and probably fired.
 

Moiraine

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Total bullshit, 1st time I saw a red like that and the last time too. Champions league refs are just as bad as English ones
Why only in favor of Barcelona?
Decision after decision... all the red cards in their favor. They were never at the receiving end

No wonder how beautiful Barcelona played, I just hated them.
 

paraguayo

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Barca played beautiful football for about 2 years, then when Fabregas got there and they played with 3 center backs and Alves as a striker and what not, and just passed the ball endlessly, specially away from home, they were very boring from 2011-2014 till Neymar and Suarez got there and they got more direct and fun
 

RooneyLegend

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The sad part for Arsene is Everytime he went against Pep he simply never had the quality in his side to compete. Over time he lost his power to find cheap gems who would go on to be truly great players. Going against that side with the incicibles for example would've been interesting.

The season before this tie for example he had a line up of Silvestre, Gibbs, Sagna, Vermaelen, Denilson, Diaby, Nasri, Rosiscky, Bendtner, Walcott against them. I mean that's just asking for trouble and no big side should have Silvestre starting a game of that magnitude in the heart of defence.
 

matbezlima

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Why only in favor of Barcelona?
Decision after decision... all the red cards in their favor. They were never at the receiving end

No wonder how beautiful Barcelona played, I just hated them.
Abidal's red card in 2009? Messi's goal wrongly ruled out as offside in the first leg against Arsenal in 2011?

I remember RvP's red card was bullshit.
Total bullshit, 1st time I saw a red like that and the last time too. Champions league refs are just as bad as English ones

Did anyone bother to read my full analysis? I'm sick of Van Persie's red overshadowing all discussions about this game! I made clear in my analysis that I didn't want this to happen! Anyway:

The second half started similarly as the first. Arsenal needed a goal, but were unable to trouble Barcelona or make any remotely decent count-attack. Arsenal was toothless and Barcelona in seemingly total control. Arsenal then was able, with a player individual run in the wing, to get a corner. Then Busquets terribly scored an own goal! Arsenal had scored a goal out of nowhere and Barcelona had to score more goals! This own goal, though, could add some urgency and speed to Barcelona's play that had previously lacked in the match. Right after the own goal, Barcelona was electrified and created a great chance! Then, Van Persie was sent off! I agree that it is one of the most baffling and weirdest sending offs that I ever saw. But I still hold my opinion that, of all 11 players that Arsenal had on the pitch, Van Persie's sending off was the least worse that it could happen. Van Persie was totally isolated and had barely touched the ball in the whole match, totally null. He was 100% and Arsenal could never get past the midfield in a good counter-attack. Much worse would be the situation if Koscielny, or any other player from the defense and midfield really, had been sent off, and Koscielny flirted with the red card constantly throughout the match. Anyway, Barcelona truly became rampant and fast, now creating great and clear chances after chances and Arsenal totally powerless. Barcelona's best football started to appear, as it had since the own goal, but their difficulties in the final third remained, this time with terrible shooting. Barcelona should have scored 7 or 8 goals at least. They shouldn't have been in the situation nearly at the end of the match in which Arsenal had a good chance with Bendtner after Mascherano's mistake. It's really weird and freakish that despite being so much superior, one of the most one-sided matches that you will ever see between top teams, and creating so many goal chances, poor finishing meant that Barcelona were so close to being knocked out with Arsenal's only chance in the entire game!

Barca played beautiful football for about 2 years, then when Fabregas got there and they played with 3 center backs and Alves as a striker and what not, and just passed the ball endlessly, specially away from home, they were very boring from 2011-2014 till Neymar and Suarez got there and they got more direct and fun
Barcelona played amazing football for three full seasons, peaking in 2010-2011. They became sterile in the 2011-2012 season, but still lots of awesome matches and awesome football, such as the 5-0 against Atletico Madrid, the 8-0 against Osasuna and so on.
 

matbezlima

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How do we all feel about van Persies red card? You barely mention it.
Because it was not really very impactful for many reasons that I explained if you read it all. Bad refereeing decisions also evened out. I want this to be a full discussion about everything that I wrote, about the match as a whole, not VP's red card! I'm sick of VP's red card overshadowing the whole discussion? Can people here read my text in its entirety and then comment?
 

RooneyLegend

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Because it was not really very impactful for many reasons that I explained if you read it all. Bad refereeing decisions also evened out. I want this to be a full discussion about everything that I wrote, about the match as a whole, not VP's red card! I'm sick of VP's red card overshadowing the whole discussion? Can people here read my text in its entirety and then comment?
How wasn't it very impactful? It was the single most important moment of the match. Without Van Person there the Barca backline could push as high as they want without any repercussions. It also meant that after conceding Arsenal couldn't do anything about it, not without leaving themselves very open anyways.
 

freeurmind

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The Van Persie red changed everything. Garbage decision that ended up costing Arsenal.
 

led_scholes

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Because it was not really very impactful for many reasons that I explained if you read it all. Bad refereeing decisions also evened out. I want this to be a full discussion about everything that I wrote, about the match as a whole, not VP's red card! I'm sick of VP's red card overshadowing the whole discussion? Can people here read my text in its entirety and then comment?
If I understand correctly, your reasoning for the red card not being impactful is that Van Persie in that game was not as important as the rest 10 and that it evened out the mistake in the first leg (that's really not how it works). This is the most baffling explanation. If the red card was in the 90th minute with the score 4-0, then yes I can see your argument. However, in this case it happened few minutes after the equalizer. By your logic, why did Arsenal even bother field 11 players? They should have played with 10 from the beginning, right? It would be the same. To add to the confusion, you even reach the conclusion (which anyway we all agree) why the game is being overshadowed by the red card: "Well, these are my final thoughts: no matter how great of a team you are, you always need at least a little bit of luck or even bad refereeing decisions to win big titles". In the end, Barcelona won the tie because of the red card, thus everyone will remember it this way.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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Because it was not really very impactful for many reasons that I explained if you read it all. Bad refereeing decisions also evened out. I want this to be a full discussion about everything that I wrote, about the match as a whole, not VP's red card! I'm sick of VP's red card overshadowing the whole discussion? Can people here read my text in its entirety and then comment?
I just need to discuss the red card first
 
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adexkola

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So was Messi's goal valid or was it really offside? If so, I understand the OP's point. Doesn't really cancel out the Van Persie red card but Barcelona would have had legitimate grievances if Arsenal went through.
 

tjb

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The sad part for Arsene is Everytime he went against Pep he simply never had the quality in his side to compete. Over time he lost his power to find cheap gems who would go on to be truly great players. Going against that side with the incicibles for example would've been interesting.

The season before this tie for example he had a line up of Silvestre, Gibbs, Sagna, Vermaelen, Denilson, Diaby, Nasri, Rosiscky, Bendtner, Walcott against them. I mean that's just asking for trouble and no big side should have Silvestre starting a game of that magnitude in the heart of defence.
And yet they always blamed him. I feel bad for him when you actually look at those names ( bar Sagna and Nasri, Diaby was overrated). He was also unlucky with injuries to his team. then again, that could be due to coaching. Even during the Henry team's , Arsenal players got a lot of injuries, particularly Bergkamp and Vieira. Luckily they had the quality in depth ( the gems) to keep beating teams despite that.
 

adexkola

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And yet they always blamed him. I feel bad for him when you actually look at those names ( bar Sagna and Nasri, Diaby was overrated). He was also unlucky with injuries to his team. then again, that could be due to coaching. Even during the Henry team's , Arsenal players got a lot of injuries, particularly Bergkamp and Vieira. Luckily they had the quality in depth ( the gems) to keep beating teams despite that.
They always blamed him because "they" thought he would have a better chance if he parked the bus like a mid-table team.
 

Gio

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Bad refereeing decisions also evened out.
Not really. Barcelona were hard done by, between Messi's offside goal alongside the obvious penalty he was denied. To be fair you picked up on that incident in your report.

The greatest swindle was Arsenal fans making out that the referee cost them the tie.
 

matbezlima

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Good thread.

Did Fabregas play in this tie?
He did.

How wasn't it very impactful? It was the single most important moment of the match. Without Van Person there the Barca backline could push as high as they want without any repercussions. It also meant that after conceding Arsenal couldn't do anything about it, not without leaving themselves very open anyways.
Again, you didn't read my full analysis! I'll post again the part of the analysis in which I talk about the red card and the second half as a whole:

The second half started similarly as the first. Arsenal needed a goal, but were unable to trouble Barcelona or make any remotely decent count-attack. Arsenal was toothless and Barcelona in seemingly total control. Arsenal then was able, with a player individual run in the wing, to get a corner. Then Busquets terribly scored an own goal! Arsenal had scored a goal out of nowhere and Barcelona had to score more goals! This own goal, though, could add some urgency and speed to Barcelona's play that had previously lacked in the match. Right after the own goal, Barcelona was electrified and created a great chance! Then, Van Persie was sent off! I agree that it is one of the most baffling and weirdest sending offs that I ever saw. But I still hold my opinion that, of all 11 players that Arsenal had on the pitch, Van Persie's sending off was the least worse that it could happen. Van Persie was totally isolated and had barely touched the ball in the whole match, totally null. He was 100% and Arsenal could never get past the midfield in a good counter-attack. Much worse would be the situation if Koscielny, or any other player from the defense and midfield really, had been sent off, and Koscielny flirted with the red card constantly throughout the match. Anyway, Barcelona truly became rampant and fast, now creating great and clear chances after chances and Arsenal totally powerless. Barcelona's best football started to appear, as it had since the own goal, but their difficulties in the final third remained, this time with terrible shooting. Barcelona should have scored 7 or 8 goals at least. They shouldn't have been in the situation nearly at the end of the match in which Arsenal had a good chance with Bendtner after Mascherano's mistake. It's really weird and freakish that despite being so much superior, one of the most one-sided matches that you will ever see between top teams, and creating so many goal chances, poor finishing meant that Barcelona were so close to being knocked out with Arsenal's only chance in the entire game!
 

freeurmind

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They always blamed him because "they" thought he would have a better chance if he parked the bus like a mid-table team.
The only teams to beat Barca in the knockout stages of the CL in Pep's reign were Inter and Chelsea, both of whom won by "parking the bus".
 

matbezlima

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So was Messi's goal valid or was it really offside? If so, I understand the OP's point. Doesn't really cancel out the Van Persie red card but Barcelona would have had legitimate grievances if Arsenal went through.
It was not offside. Watch it in the highlights of the first leg. In the second leg, there was also a possible penalty on Messi in the box's edge
 

adexkola

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The only teams to beat Barca in the knockout stages of the CL in Pep's reign were Inter and Chelsea, both of whom won by "parking the bus".
Inter did not park the bus at the San Siro. They went up 3-1 through taking the initiative at various points of the game. Lucio's red card forced them to park the bus with 10 men and they barely made it through.

And I can think of many teams that have shown up looking to park the bus against Barcelona and ended getting smashed. It's not a guarantee of anything.
 

matbezlima

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If I understand correctly, your reasoning for the red card not being impactful is that Van Persie in that game was not as important as the rest 10 and that it evened out the mistake in the first leg (that's really not how it works). This is the most baffling explanation. If the red card was in the 90th minute with the score 4-0, then yes I can see your argument. However, in this case it happened few minutes after the equalizer. By your logic, why did Arsenal even bother field 11 players? They should have played with 10 from the beginning, right? It would be the same. To add to the confusion, you even reach the conclusion (which anyway we all agree) why the game is being overshadowed by the red card: "Well, these are my final thoughts: no matter how great of a team you are, you always need at least a little bit of luck or even bad refereeing decisions to win big titles". In the end, Barcelona won the tie because of the red card, thus everyone will remember it this way.
Barcelona needed some luck, but they still deserved to win the tie because they were so far superior. Do you seriously think that Barcelona would not have stormed Arsenal with so many goal chances if Van Persie was not sent off? They had already become electrified and created a great goal chance right after the own goal and before the sending off! Arsenal's goal was out of nowhere too, they didn't deserve to be level with Barcelona in the game.
 

freeurmind

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Inter did not park the bus at the San Siro. They went up 3-1 through taking the initiative at various points of the game. Lucio's red card forced them to park the bus with 10 men and they barely made it through.

And I can think of many teams that have shown up looking to park the bus against Barcelona and ended getting smashed. It's not a guarantee of anything.
Thiago Motta I think.

Yes I agree Inter were far more defensive in the second leg but even in the first, they let Barca have the ball and sought to hit them on the break.

Agreed again, it's not a guarantee. However my point still stands, you had a better chance of success against that team if you played defensively. We tried to press them in that first final and paid the price.
 

freeurmind

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See my answers to RooneyLegend and led_scholes here in this thread. And let's not forget that Arsenal had zero shots in the entire game! How would Arsenal classify?! It would be freakish!
Barca deserved to go through on balance but that red card effectively killed the game as a contest and it wasn't a red card, I think we can all agree on that.
 

led_scholes

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Barcelona needed some luck, but they still deserved to win the tie because they were so far superior. Do you seriously think that Barcelona would not have stormed Arsenal with so many goal chances if Van Persie was not sent off? They had already become electrified and created a great goal chance right after the own goal and before the sending off! Arsenal's goal was out of nowhere too, they didn't deserve to be level with Barcelona in the game.
Do you remember who Arsenal brought as a substitute?? The Lord Bendtner. Do you remember his chance? Do you think than Van Persie would have missed that? Barcelona was far better indeed. That doesn't give them any divine right to progress thanks to a red card. And we have seen many times that in football the best team doesn't always win. Chelsea in 2012 proved that. They were worse vs Napoli, Barcelona and Bayern and won the CL.
 

matbezlima

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Do you remember who Arsenal brought as a substitute?? The Lord Bendtner. Do you remember his chance? Do you think than Van Persie would have missed that? Barcelona was far better indeed. That doesn't give them any divine right to progress thanks to a red card. And we have seen many times that in football the best team doesn't always win. Chelsea in 2012 proved that. They were worse vs Napoli, Barcelona and Bayern and won the CL.
I repeat: the only exercise of imagination in which the match could have changed due to VP's sending off is if Bendtner's chance had fallen to Van Persie. Still, we don't know if Van Persie would have scored and before the red card he did not have virtually any participation in the match. And it would be a tragedy for football if the best team ever playing the highest technical level of football ever in that season had been eliminated. It would not be right if Pep's Barcelona reputation, people would scoff at them if they had not won the UCL in 2011. And let's not forget the masterclass in the final, I love that team. And let's not forget a potential penalty on Messi not given in the first half and Messi's goal wrongly ruled out in the first leg as offside.

Anyway, I said all that I wanted to say about VP's red card. I refuse to talk about it any longer. I made clear in my first post in this thread that I didn't want VP's red to be the focus of analysis in the match, I prefer to focus in how both teams played throughout the game, the level of their performances, the line-ups, the tactics, the context from the first leg and from the season. But no, it seems that I'm asking too much from the users here, no one talks about anything else besides the red card! feck this, I won't answer anymore about the red card. Feel free to watch the full game and discuss the many other aspects and things that happened in the game and I'll be glad to discuss them.
 

led_scholes

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I repeat: the only exercise of imagination in which the match could have changed due to VP's sending off is if Bendtner's chance had fallen to Van Persie. Still, we don't know if Van Persie would have scored and before the red card he did not have virtually any participation in the match. And it would be a tragedy for football if the best team ever playing the highest technical level of football ever in that season had been eliminated. It would not be right if Pep's Barcelona reputation, people would scoff at them if they had not won the UCL in 2011. And let's not forget the masterclass in the final, I love that team. And let's not forget a potential penalty on Messi not given in the first half and Messi's goal wrongly ruled out in the first leg as offside.

Anyway, I said all that I wanted to say about VP's red card. I refuse to talk about it any longer. I made clear in my first post in this thread that I didn't want VP's red to be the focus of analysis in the match, I prefer to focus in how both teams played throughout the game, the level of their performances, the line-ups, the tactics, the context from the first leg and from the season. But no, it seems that I'm asking too much from the users here, no one talks about anything else besides the red card! feck this, I won't answer anymore about the red card. Feel free to watch the full game and discuss the many other aspects and things that happened in the game and I'll be glad to discuss them.
The "best team ever playing the highest technical level of football ever" progressed because of this sequence: a) an early substitution because of an injury (Almunia in), leaving less choices for Wenger b) a red card and c) a stupid chance missed by Bendter. If Arsenal had progressed, everybody would feel that Barcelona was unlucky because it played far better (which is absolutely true). But, as it happened, Barcelona had massive luck in the end. Now, If you intended to make this thread to say that Barcelona played better than Arsenal, then no, shit Sherlock. However, if you think that Van Persie did not have ANY absolute impact in this game, then you don't understand how football works. Just an example: VP in 1-1 for 52 minutes, 1-1. VP out for 40 minutes, 2-0. VP was running, pressuring etc. Trust me Arsenal would prefer to have William Prunier as a striker, if the other option was not striker at all. It is not a tragedy if the best team doesn't progress. Tragedy is when we don' t see the game because of refereeing mistakes (i'm referring to both games).
 

matbezlima

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The "best team ever playing the highest technical level of football ever" progressed because of this sequence: a) an early substitution because of an injury (Almunia in), leaving less choices for Wenger b) a red card and c) a stupid chance missed by Bendter. If Arsenal had progressed, everybody would feel that Barcelona was unlucky because it played far better (which is absolutely true). But, as it happened, Barcelona had massive luck in the end. Now, If you intended to make this thread to say that Barcelona played better than Arsenal, then no, shit Sherlock. However, if you think that Van Persie did not have ANY absolute impact in this game, then you don't understand how football works. Just an example: VP in 1-1 for 52 minutes, 1-1. VP out for 40 minutes, 2-0. VP was running, pressuring etc. Trust me Arsenal would prefer to have William Prunier as a striker, if the other option was not striker at all. It is not a tragedy if the best team doesn't progress. Tragedy is when we don' t see the game because of refereeing mistakes (i'm referring to both games).
My point is that Barcelona would have scored those two goals and created that crazy amount of goal chances even if VP had not been sent off! Barcelona had already started that pressure and created a great goal chance right after the own goal, not right after the red! Arsenal could not get past midfield and Van Persie was isolated. What if Koscielny had been sent off instead of Van Persie, for example? It would be far worse. Arsenal's chance at the end only happened after Barcelona had been terribly wasteful in front of the goal and missed countless clear chances. Barcelona should not have been so close to being knocked out and Arsenal was lucky that they were not hammered in the scoreline. I would bet that if we were able to change history and let that game unfollow right after minute 55 without VP being sent off that the game would still be almost exactly as it was and Barcelona would go through. And what did Van Persie have to do with Busquets' own goal that came almost out of nowhere?

And there is far more to be said in the analysis of the match than just "Barcelona was far better". I talked about how Barcelona was not at their best, their sterility and imprecision of their passing combinations in the final third, how the first leg was, the context of the games that they had been playing, the line-ups and so on. I wrote a gigantic text talking about the match and at most only one paragraph is about VP's sending off.
 

RooneyLegend

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It is, but can we talk about something else too?
Nope, it was the most influential moment of the match. You seem to ingnore that Arsenal were playing the situation of the game. You seem to also ignore that after going behind without Van Persie they were limited in their quest to get a goal. You also ignore the psychological effect of losing your best player in a such a situation.

It was a tough match for Arsenal, having to go a man down made the result inevitable. Arsene spent the whole post game talking about that one situation.
 

adexkola

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Nope, it was the most influential moment of the match. You seem to ingnore that Arsenal were playing the situation of the game. You seem to also ignore that after going behind without Van Persie they were limited in their quest to get a goal. You also ignore the psychological effect of losing your best player in a such a situation.

It was a tough match for Arsenal, having to go a man down made the result inevitable. Arsene spent the whole post game talking about that one situation.
Eh. His sending off denied Arsenal a goal probably. Messi got a goal chalked off unfairly.

Are there any Arsenal fans seriously up in arms about this tie?
 

SportingCP96

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What I remember is 3 things.

1. RVP red card changed the game
2. That Messi goal where he clipped it over almunia and then smashed it In was world class.
3. Bendtner is utter shite
 
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@matbezlima .... Just a thought but you'll probably get a better response if you don't post things like....

"Did anyone bother to read my full analysis?"

" I want this to be a full discussion about everything that I wrote"

"I'm sick of VP's red card overshadowing the whole discussion"

"Again, you didn't read my full analysis!"

... you might get a better response. Especially when only on page.1.

This is a site for opinions. Your write-up of the game is very detailed and may be accurate, but if you tell people what they can/cannot post (and use exclamation marks), people aren't going to be arsed.

You also say there's no guarantee that RvP would have scored the Bendtner chance but that Barcelona would have created the same number of chances even against 11 men. It sounds like you have a clear view of the game/teams and want everyone to agree with you.

I don't remember the game, I'm not going to watch it again (I might have as I'm bored but not if someone instructs me to) but a red card is going to make a difference to any game. Barcelona may well have won, it may well have been the exact same scoreline but no-one knows.

On this site you've got some very very knowledgeable people when it comes to football (lots of clubs, countries, time periods). Try inviting their opinions and you'll learn loads.
 

matbezlima

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@matbezlima .... Just a thought but you'll probably get a better response if you don't post things like....

"Did anyone bother to read my full analysis?"

" I want this to be a full discussion about everything that I wrote"

"I'm sick of VP's red card overshadowing the whole discussion"

"Again, you didn't read my full analysis!"

... you might get a better response. Especially when only on page.1.

This is a site for opinions. Your write-up of the game is very detailed and may be accurate, but if you tell people what they can/cannot post (and use exclamation marks), people aren't going to be arsed.

You also say there's no guarantee that RvP would have scored the Bendtner chance but that Barcelona would have created the same number of chances even against 11 men. It sounds like you have a clear view of the game/teams and want everyone to agree with you.

I don't remember the game, I'm not going to watch it again (I might have as I'm bored but not if someone instructs me to) but a red card is going to make a difference to any game. Barcelona may well have won, it may well have been the exact same scoreline but no-one knows.

On this site you've got some very very knowledgeable people when it comes to football (lots of clubs, countries, time periods). Try inviting their opinions and you'll learn loads.
Thanks for the advice
 

led_scholes

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I seriously never heard before that kind of argument: a red card is not important, even though there were 40 minutes left and the tie in favour of Arsenal, because a) Barcelona would have score the goals anyway b) because it was not a defender who received the red card, but a striker.

Who remembers Nedved crying because he would miss the final in 2003? Turns out it didn't matter, since Milan would have won anyway. :houllier:
 

matbezlima

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I seriously never heard before that kind of argument: a red card is not important, even though there were 40 minutes left and the tie in favour of Arsenal, because a) Barcelona would have score the goals anyway b) because it was not a defender who received the red card, but a striker.

Who remembers Nedved crying because he would miss the final in 2003? Turns out it didn't matter, since Milan would have won anyway. :houllier:
But Nedved was a crucial playmaker for Juventus' creativity in midfield. And Van Persie's influence in the game against Barcelona was very little in my opinion because he was totally isolated and barely able to touch the ball because Arsenal couldn't get out of the own half or make any half-decent counter-attack that Van Persie could finish. Van Persie was not receiving the ball in any half decent goal scoring position. Arsenal could just as well play without a striker from the start considering how the game was played.