Ole Gunnar Solskjær | 2019/20 Discussion

roonster09

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Sanchez was not a bad apple in my opinion. All reports suggested he trained hard and had a good work ethic.

Lukaku was a bad apple. Its not just the weight issues. He flirted with Serie A long before he left openly while contracted to us. Then he name dropped Conte and went on to publish confidential fitness info on his peers using social media.

He was completely a bad apple. It doesn't matter how many he scores or how over critical we were of his performances. That type of professionalism has no place in our club.
Everyone is a good apple when they play every game no matter how shit they are, all the talk about being the soldier and all that nonsense. When they are not guaranteed starting spot, then you see their real professionalism.

Not talking about Sanchez btw, I barely remember him as ManUtd player.
 

Amir

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A smarter manager keeps Lukaku onside until he knows he no longer needs him, like Fergie
Exactly, it seems like Solskjaer alienated Lukaku very early on, making his sale inevitable. There was no way we could have just decided during the summer to keep him.
 

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I'm comparing the individuals legacy as that was the discussion and the reply was to this point "Let me ask you, did Liverpool fans love Roy Hodgson when he was sinking them down into the abyss?"

It wasn't a valid comparison. Liverpool fans didn't love Hodgson just like ManUtd fans didn't love Moyes. There was no history between these managers and club. When it comes to Dalglish and Solskjaer, there is plenty of history.

What you are talking about is completely different argument and going by the records, Dalglish is by far the better manager than Ole.
I understand your argument but it's something i absolutely detest about football. Sentimentality & nepotism is by far the worst traits i hate in football management. Seeing someone failing over and over again, whilst you suffer, but being afraid of telling the truth and calling it out are things i wish didn't exist.

With the results right now, of course people are going to be angry, when they see him with a smile on his face in press-conferences, with the current captain Young spouting '"it's like having the boss back"!, when if we sink any lower we will be in a relegation battle.

Can they be any more detached from reality? It just shows a loser's mentality and gives the impression they don't care about the fans suffering. That might not be true but it's what it comes across as.

No but they still loved Dalglish when he looked out of his depth, saying he should move on but were respectful to their legend.
My original reply was based on this not being a totally accurate comparison also. Dalglish produced good results at the time, like you agree, so the fans had no reason not to be respectful towards him. Surely you can't expect all the fans to treat Solksjaer the same way with the results he is producing right now?
 
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Amir

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Sanchez's loan is entirely on Ole. Glazers have nothing to gain from Sanchez deal as there is no fee and we are still paying 50% of his wages. Its not a significant saving for them anyway. It was just sheer stupidity from Ole after the window had closed.
Did Sanchez have something to offer, though, based in his 18 months with the club?

There was talk of dressing room unrest caused by Sanchez's arrived. Maybe Solskjaer looked at that and his performances and thought there would be no value in keeping him.
 

Ancient Of Days

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Sanchez was not a bad apple in my opinion. All reports suggested he trained hard and had a good work ethic.

Lukaku was a bad apple. Its not just the weight issues. He flirted with Serie A long before he left openly while contracted to us. Then he name dropped Conte and went on to publish confidential fitness info on his peers using social media.

He was completely a bad apple. It doesn't matter how many he scores or how over critical we were of his performances. That type of professionalism has no place in our club.
It doesn't have any place in our club yet Rashford flirted with Barcalona in the summer holding the club to ransom to get a new contract and is still here and rewarded with superstar level wages?

What about Pogba what is he still doing here if that ''type of professionalism'' has no place in our club?

Didn't he, his agent and brother more or less beg for Real Madrid to come and pick him up?
 

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Everyone is a good apple when they play every game no matter how shit they are, all the talk about being the soldier and all that nonsense. When they are not guaranteed starting spot, then you see their real professionalism.

Not talking about Sanchez btw, I barely remember him as ManUtd player.
Sanchez has been well received by the manager for his attitude a couple of times if I'm not mistaken. He also kept quiet about exits publically and said he regrets nothing (even if he did from a footballing perspective).

It doesn't have any place in our club yet Rashford flirted with Barcalona in the summer holding the club to ransom to get a new contract and is still here and rewarded with superstar level wages?

What about Pogba what is he still doing here if that ''type of professionalism'' has no place in our club?

Didn't he, his agent and brother more or less beg for Real Madrid to come and pick him up?
Rashford never publically went out and spoke about Barcelona. How is this in any way comparable to Lukaku?

Pogba is a good example. I really am not a fan of Pogba the player but his professionalism was highly commendable, even though he's a far bigger brand than Lukaku. Yeah he said he wanted a new challenge but that's hardly disrespectful. He never openly spoke about Real Madrid and wanting to play in La Liga that summer. Lukaku did the opposite. He literally said he wanted to go to Serie A and he wants to play for Conte that summer. Then he started pissing off teammates before being forced to train in Belgium.

You're clutching at straws if you want to compare professionalism from Rashford and Pogba to Lukaku.
 

JPRouve

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It doesn't have any place in our club yet Rashford flirted with Barcalona in the summer holding the club to ransom to get a new contract and is still here and rewarded with superstar level wages?

What about Pogba what is he still doing here if that ''type of professionalism'' has no place in our club?

Didn't he, his agent and brother more or less beg for Real Madrid to come and pick him up?
I probably missed it but when and how did he flirt with Barcelona?
 

romufc

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It doesn't have any place in our club yet Rashford flirted with Barcalona in the summer holding the club to ransom to get a new contract and is still here and rewarded with superstar level wages?

What about Pogba what is he still doing here if that ''type of professionalism'' has no place in our club?

Didn't he, his agent and brother more or less beg for Real Madrid to come and pick him up?
It is very hypocritical from Ole. The one thing Ole has lost from a personal point of view is his credibility. I can't talk for every fan but myself because all he has done is contradict himself at every given chance.

There is plenty of examples I can give you but I will mention Pogba because it is related.

Ole came out and said, we don't want people who do not want to be here.. that's why Lukaku went. Why is Pogba still here? He gave the interview in Hong Kong about a new challenge, his agent came out and said the club know what the player wants. His brother was came out and more importantly Pogba himself has not performed.

So why the different treatment?
 

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It doesn't have any place in our club yet Rashford flirted with Barcalona in the summer holding the club to ransom to get a new contract and is still here and rewarded with superstar level wages?

What about Pogba what is he still doing here if that ''type of professionalism'' has no place in our club?

Didn't he, his agent and brother more or less beg for Real Madrid to come and pick him up?
:lol: what's this crap.
 

JPRouve

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Think some paper or other said Barcelona fancied him, not that Marcus was after a move. Typical newspaper rumour mill.
I know but he said that Rashford flirted with Barcelona, maybe I missed it but Rashford never commented on transfer rumours?
 

roonster09

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I understand your argument but it's something i absolutely detest about football. Sentimentality & nepotism is by far the worst traits i hate in football management. Seeing someone failing over and over again, whilst you suffer, but being afraid of telling the truth and calling it out are things i wish didn't exist.

With the results right now, of course people are going to be angry, when they see him with a smile on his face in press-conferences, with the current captain Young spouting '"it's like having the boss back"!, when if we sink any lower we will be in a relegation battle.

Can they be any more detached from reality? It just shows a loser's mentality and gives the impression they don't care about the fans suffering. That might not be true but it's what it comes across as.

What do the fans get for hiding their feelings? A slap across the face.


My original reply was based on this not being a totally accurate comparison also. Dalglish produced good results at the time, like you agree, so the fans had no reason not to be respectful towards him. Surely you can't expect all the fans to treat Solksjaer the same way with the results he is producing right now?
Dalglish team scored 47 goals in the league, outscored by Fulham, as many point as Fulham (52). League cup won't change anything and just 2-3 seasons ago they pushed us all the way till last 2 weeks for league title.

Ole isn't good enough but I will never understand why people will compare him with Hodgson and how Liverpool treated him. It's always Dalglish who is good comparison considering how he was crowd favorite but looked out of depth managing the club.

You argument is completely different and again players/manager saying something positive in PC doesn't mean they are blind and can't see how far we have fallen.
 

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Sanchez has been well received by the manager for his attitude a couple of times if I'm not mistaken. He also kept quiet about exits publically and said he regrets nothing (even if he did from a footballing perspective).
That didn't stop him from being unceremoniously kicked out of the club at the end of the window did it. So what is your point?


Rashford never publically went out and spoke about Barcelona. How is this in any way comparable to Lukaku?
No he just got his agent to do it for him which is even more snide.

What difference does the method of which they declare their interest in leaving make? If they do it nicely it's ok, but if they do it in a back handed way it's more respectable?

Pogba is a good example. I really am not a fan of Pogba the player but his professionalism was highly commendable, even though he's a far bigger brand than Lukaku. Yeah he said he wanted a new challenge but that's hardly disrespectful. He never openly spoke about Real Madrid and wanting to play in La Liga that summer. Lukaku did the opposite. He literally said he wanted to go to Serie A and he wants to play for Conte that summer. Then he started pissing off teammates before being forced to train in Belgium.
Now tell me what is so disrespectful and different from Lukaku praising Juve and saying one day he'd like to play in Italy, to Pogba's comments about needing a new challenge as if he's won all there is with the club?

Let's compare

Lukaku;

''Juve have a great project in place and they just keep going. Every year they try to get stronger.

"Without doubt, Juve are one of the two or three best teams in Europe. They've got a great coach on the bench and extraordinary players in every area of the team.

"Cristiano Ronaldo stands out, but watch out for the others too. Paulo Dybala is already impressive and getting stronger, while I love Douglas Costa''

Pogba while contracted to club as you stressed with Lukaku;

''For me I have been for three years in Manchester and have been doing great; some good moments and some bad moments, like everybody. Like everywhere else.

“After this season and everything that happened this season, with my season being my best season as well... I think for me it could be a good time to have a new challenge somewhere else

You're clutching at straws if you want to complain professionalism from Rashford and Pogba to Lukaku.
So because Pogba said he rather a challenge some else but United, that's more respectful than Lukaku praising a team in a different league?

I think it's you that's clutching at straws trying to put levels on how a players declares their intention on leaving for another club when while acting as if Lukaku crossed a line when praising Conte, failing to mention Pogba actually met up with Zidane, but that's ok because he's a bigger star so he's not unprofessional in your eyes.

And it's ok for Rashford because he did it through his agent :rolleyes:
 

Baneofthegame

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His comments about potentially no signings in January is slightly worrying.

We need at least two players in January to have a hope at top 4, it’s all well and good potentially having Pogba and Shaw back, but we are a couple of injuries again from being paper thin even at full strength.
 

12OunceEpilogue

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There's this myth peddled that Lukaku and Sanchez were bad apples.

On what basis? Lukaku had weight issues and was subsequently kicked out of the club.

Doesn't Shaw battle with weight issues and have bigger problems performing consistently? What's the difference?

Didn't Lukaku help land Ole the job by scoring twice in the famous PSG victory?

He scored in 3 games in row. 2 goals against Palace, 2 goals against Southampton and 2 goals against PSG.

After PSG we played against arsenal and he didn't perform and was promptly dropped and Ole made it clear Rashford was his favorite and that's when Lukuku and his agent started releasing stories about his desire to move to Italy.

Rashford knew he was no 1 and his place was secure hence the Gold Rashy chain he treated himself to shortly after Lukaku got marginalized


Sanchez himself didn't start to badly under Ole either scoring in the 3-1 win against Arsenal. Then was dropped in favor of Lingard who was given umpteenth amount of chances to prove himself even when doing nothing but being a passenger on the field.

It had to take a huge fans backlash during pre season and the start of this season for Jesse to be dropped and that was partly due to his off the field clownery

Yet you can be damn sure Ole is in no rush to kick him out of the club like he did with Lukaku or Sanchez

Sanchez during his time here was always hard working and a model professional. In the media the only time you'd see his social media is when he was posting videos of him working out in the gym or showing off pictures of his dog.

So ask where this this stuff about these two players being bad apples come from?
Fair enough on Sanchez, labelling him a bad apple in terms of his conduct is unfair but the huge deficit in wages v performances was possibly too hard to ignore. That whole transfer was a terrible mistake by the club, but to be fair I would blame neither Sanchez nor Ole for how it ended.

Lukaku was in my view simply not prepared for the task we have on our hands at United. His conditioning being off, whinging to the press when he lost his place and sending love letters to Milan was all hugely irksome last term, notwithstanding a couple of streaks of goals and a key performance in the PSG game. I was fan of Lukaku's performances in his first season even when he wasn't scoring but he was a lump for most of last year and I backed Ole when he phased him out.

It may be homegrown bias on my part but I'm not half as bothered by the Rashy and JLingz stuff as I was by Lukaku's conduct last year. I agree Ole put misguided faith in Lingard to carry out the plan/stay in shape without the ball when he has been dire for months with it, but he's been right to persist with Rashford who has shown himself capable of playing with high energy and intelligence on the left or in a two with James (not enough it must be said, though much of that is down to the shortcomings of the entire team).

Your insinuation is that I've been propagandised by the club and by Ole, but my verdicts on the four players you've mentioned are:

Sanchez - Not a bad apple as I previously said, but damaged goods owing to the insane wages we gave him + age catching up with him. Glad he's gone but wish he'd been replaced.
Lukaku - Unable to get his head and body straight at United, keen to play elsewhere. Glad he's gone but wish he'd been replaced.
Rashford - Good player, not a centre-forward but an asset on the left or in a split pairing running channels in a 352. Glad he's here.
Lingard - Utterly bereft of confidence and form and deservedly dropped, but even on his best form not a starter here. Ambivalent about him going or staying.

There are many factors at play in the formation of those opinions, of which I'm sure briefing from United is one, but I don't feel I'm far off. I'm firmly of the belief that it's possible to have doubts about Ole's management, doubts about the quality of the squad and specific players but also be glad the likes of Rashford are here while Lukaku and Sanchez are out.
 

VP89

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That didn't stop him from being unceremoniously kicked out of the club at the end of the window did it. So what is your point?
That Sanchez wasn't a bad apple. Do you read my posts?
No he just got his agent to do it for him which is even more snide.
Bullshit. They both actually hit out at the media for spreading lies at the time Barcelona rumours were there.
What difference does the method of which they declare their interest in leaving make? If they do it nicely it's ok, but if they do it in a back handed way it's more respectable?
Both are bad but coming out as a player contracted to the club and saying it outright is far worse. Obviously.
Now tell me what is so disrespectful and different from Lukaku praising Juve and saying one day he'd like to play in Italy, to Pogba's comments about needing a new challenge as if he's won all there is with the club?

Let's compare

Lukaku;

''Juve have a great project in place and they just keep going. Every year they try to get stronger.

"Without doubt, Juve are one of the two or three best teams in Europe. They've got a great coach on the bench and extraordinary players in every area of the team.

"Cristiano Ronaldo stands out, but watch out for the others too. Paulo Dybala is already impressive and getting stronger, while I love Douglas Costa''

Pogba while contracted to club as you stressed with Lukaku;

''For me I have been for three years in Manchester and have been doing great; some good moments and some bad moments, like everybody. Like everywhere else.

“After this season and everything that happened this season, with my season being my best season as well... I think for me it could be a good time to have a new challenge somewhere else
You're looking at the wrong Lukaku quotes, although hilarious you found yet another example of him flirting with another club. My reference was actually when Lukaku came out and said he wanted to play under Conte during the preseason with Man Utd. That's way fecking worse than Pogba wanting a new challenge and keeping vague.

Oh, and you have completely ignored the lack of loyalty to teammates and unprofessionalism in spilling fitness information about his peers. He went on to train away from the team for a reason, you know.
So because Pogba said he rather a challenge some else but United, that's more respectful than Lukaku praising a team in a different league?
He didn't just praise a team in a different league. He said he wanted to move to Serie A and even name dropped the manager he wants to go to. You're really struggling here.
I think it's you that's clutching at straws trying to put levels on how a players declares their intention on leaving for another club when while acting as if Lukaku crossed a line when praising Conte, failing to mention Pogba actually met up with Zidane, but that's ok because he's a bigger star so he's not unprofessional in your eyes.
Lukaku publically said he wants to play on Serie A and for Conte. That's not just praising. Pogba may have met Zidane but it means feck all in comparison to Lukaku basically wearing a "SOS" sign and a fecking address on it. And you say he wasn't a bad apple? Take a walk.
And it's ok for Rashford because he did it through his agent :rolleyes:
That didn't happen.

You've basically ignored what Rashford and his brother (agent) actually did, which is publically shut down rumours to Barcelona when it was reported. All before he signed the contract too.

I think you need to revisit the time line and Google, his agent and himself put out insta stories and statements saying the media "were making it up as they go along" when they reported Barcelona interest.
 

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No but they still loved Dalglish when he looked out of his depth, saying he should move on but were respectful to their legend.
So one person is more important than club? Why i must still love someone who is doing damage to something what millions and millions people around the world love? And he is not bloody Dalglish or Cantona or Giggs or Maldini ffs. He was good servant of this club and nothing else. But this club gave him everything in return. Last 2 or 3 years he was payed for not playing because he was injured. He scored goals for us and i thank him for that but my God, he really used his every goal ( and still doing it) for leeching on this club. He was payed last 2 or 3 seasons for doing nothing, got job as a coach in this club in academy, got job as first team manager and finally ruining this club with smile on his face and romantic fans like you defend him because he is a "legend".
He was legend but now he is a leecher and nothing else. Am i harsh? Yes. Am i plastic fan? Some like you will say yes, but i don't care. For me it is club》》》》》》》》》》legends.
 

Andycoleno9

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Not sure how you got that from my post.
You said that Liverpool fans still love and respect Kenny because he is a legend. I presumed that you think that about Ole. And i disagree with that. Legend status you get by doing good things for your club. Ole deserved that in his playing career. But when you start doing bad things for your club and you keep doing it, you lose "legend" status protection.

Yes, i know, i am cold bastard( not true fan as some say) and i have no respect to our legends. Sorry, but Ole is doing serious damage to this club and i am really pissed because of that.
 

roonster09

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You said that Liverpool fans still love and respect Kenny because he is a legend. I presumed that you think that about Ole. And i disagree with that. Legend status you get by doing good things for your club. Ole deserved that in his playing career. But when you start doing bad things for your club and you keep doing it, you lose "legend" status protection.

Yes, i know, i am cold bastard( not true fan as some say) and i have no respect to our legends. Sorry, but Ole is doing serious damage to this club and i am really pissed because of that.
Even if Ole loses next 5 games he will still be a legend, he will be a shit manager but legend at ManUtd.

And yeah, I love Ole and respect him forever, doesn't mean I want him to continue as manager. It's not hard to differentiate between all these.
 

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Enjoyed that performance, but it still changes nothing with regards to Ole.
 

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It's Norwich mk2. Great win against crap opposition but we shouldn't look any further than that. At least it's a comfortable night today.
 

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This was a game we could have won 3-0 without a manager, Partizan were shite.
 

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Good win, happy to see confidence lifted a bit.

But i'm under no illusions, there was still stagnant movement ahead of the ball carrier in midfield throughout tonight. Too much sideways passing and touches on the ball. Our build-up play was again atrocious.

Partizan were just that bad, that we could damage them that easily. I wonder whether they even are pro level.

Let's see what our build-up is like vs a deep defence this weekend vs Brighton.

If we play the same failing 4231 with a No.10, i'm not going to be impressed.
 

ash_86

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Good win for us today and good that Ole tried an interesting front 3. Add Pogba to the mix and we have a very good front 6 :

Rashford ------- Martial -----------Greenwood

---------------Pogba--------------------

-----------Fred ---------- Scott------------
 

Flexdegea

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Good win, happy to see confidence lifted a bit.

But i'm under no illusions, there was still stagnant movement ahead of the ball carrier in midfield throughout tonight. Too much sideways passing and touches on the ball. Our build-up play was again atrocious.

Partizan were just that bad, that we could damage them that easily. I wonder whether they even are pro level.

Let's see what our build-up is like vs a deep defence this weekend vs Brighton.

If we play the same failing 4231 with a No.10, i'm not going to be impressed.


Did you watch the same game as everyone else :houllier:
 

Majima

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Did you watch the same game as everyone else :houllier:
And you are?

It was Partizan, not Barcelona. I'm more interested in what we're like vs Brighton at the weekend.

Considering we've struggled to break down deep defences since eternity and i saw plenty of warning signs tonight to not get carried away by tonight's result.
 

sweetmgd

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Good win for us today and good that Ole tried an interesting front 3. Add Pogba to the mix and we have a very good front 6 :

Rashford ------- Martial -----------Greenwood

---------------Pogba--------------------

-----------Fred ---------- Scott------------
For Greenwood, of course now in order to give him game time and develop his body, we can play him at RW, but if you see in the match, Greenwood was very quiet most of the time. I think his long term best position is striker, since his skill set and speed remind me of VPS.
 

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3 very good goals by our front 3, hope to build on that, the formation was also something worth looking at (Fred, McSauce, Rojo, Harry) as back 4 and Young and AWB always forward. We were sometimes lucky Partizan where shit on the counter but still was a good entertaining game. Happy to see Garner come on as well, he has really good weight in his passing was really impressed by him. Fred had a good game as well. Overall very good tactics from Ole it kept us on the front foot, Partizan or not, we lost to Bournemouth on the weekend without even looking like scoring, cheer up a bit.
 

432JuanMata

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This was a game we could have won 3-0 without a manager, Partizan were shite.
This. I’m not bashing Ole but Partizan are crap my problem is we win a game in the Europa League or League cup then revert back to shit in the PL when teams sit deep and are decent. Bournemouth match was our last one before tonight and we were terrible we need to put in a good performance against Brighton on the weekend
 

matt10000

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You said that Liverpool fans still love and respect Kenny because he is a legend. I presumed that you think that about Ole. And i disagree with that. Legend status you get by doing good things for your club. Ole deserved that in his playing career. But when you start doing bad things for your club and you keep doing it, you lose "legend" status protection.

Yes, i know, i am cold bastard( not true fan as some say) and i have no respect to our legends. Sorry, but Ole is doing serious damage to this club and i am really pissed because of that.
Then why are you a football fan? You may as well just support whoever is winning if you disregard all history and have no respect or connection to those who you have watched over the years
 

Mockney

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Editing my own posts.
It's weird (actually not) how we occasionally hit upon the most patently obvious things like "playing Juan Mata in a 10 behind 3 quick forwards against lesser teams is a better way of structuring the side than putting him on the right wing and just not having a midfield at all" and then after lazily repeating it in the following game, against much less tactically suitable opposition, reliably ignoring it for another good few months, until we've cycled through all the other options and accidentally arrived back at trying it again...

All said and done, that was a genuinely enjoyable watch. Which would be much more enjoyable if it didn't seem like a happy accident that we'll probably fail to learn anything from a month from now.

I don't want to be negative though... So with that in mind - Mason has a really great looking running style. Possibly the most aesthetically pleasing since Beckham. However the position of his eyebrows makes him seem perpetually startled by everything.
 
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SteveW

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Good win, happy to see confidence lifted a bit.

But i'm under no illusions, there was still stagnant movement ahead of the ball carrier in midfield throughout tonight. Too much sideways passing and touches on the ball. Our build-up play was again atrocious.

Partizan were just that bad, that we could damage them that easily. I wonder whether they even are pro level.

Let's see what our build-up is like vs a deep defence this weekend vs Brighton.

If we play the same failing 4231 with a No.10, i'm not going to be impressed.
They played some lovely football until the third goal went in. No idea what you were watching.

Coming into the Solskjaer thread so say that shows your agenda as clear as day.
 

SteveW

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This. I’m not bashing Ole but Partizan are crap my problem is we win a game in the Europa League or League cup then revert back to shit in the PL when teams sit deep and are decent. Bournemouth match was our last one before tonight and we were terrible we need to put in a good performance against Brighton on the weekend
I thought they ran out of gas a bit against Bournmouth to be honest. 4 away games in 11 days with a small squad isn't easy.